Google, European Telecoms Giants Call on EU to Force Open iMessage

[hans1972]

'of iMessage as "an important gateway between business users and their customers is without doubt justification for Apple’s designation as gatekeeper for its iMessage service,'

No, iMessages isn't important for communication between businesses and their customers in the EU. WhatsApp is.

BTW, how can I contact Google in the EU through iMessage?
Surely, Google is using iMessage in the EU?

 

[hans1972]

I don't want to drift politically toward a commentary about the regulatory approach of the EU (and, by comparison, of the USA), but I think the main point here is that IM services and apps are used to communicate with OTHER PEOPLE; so, while I can use a note-taking app or a banking app nobody uses and have no drawback, with IM apps I am forced to use one everybody uses (otherwise I would be cut off from most people)...

That's not the argument here. It's communication between business and customers in the EU.

 

[5232152]

Gotta love the EU, nothing will be special, it will all be gray, everything will be the same.

Anti-consumerism on overdrive?
If you truly think every company should have their own standard you have absolutely no technological or historic insight into the field you are whining about.

 

[God of Biscuits]

WhatsApp has 2.3+ billion active users. That's more than the entire installed base of iPhones. And nowhere near all iPhone users use iMessage.

 

[1129846]

At the moment there's no easy way to resolve that though. Apple did want iMessage and FaceTime as widely-adopted standard but nobody joined so we have 10 competing platforms unfortunately. RCS is an answer, however only in theory. It's not supported by all carriers worldwide and many companies try to push their own implementation - potentially but often likely - compromising security and privacy (looking at you Google).

I would argue that friends and families use many different platforms but rarely utilize plain SMS so it's up for a discussion how much of a problem this is and if the market cannot resolve it on its own.

No Apple did not. You are remembering an old Steve Jobs line when he announce it and claimed that it was going to be open standard. Like a lot of things CEO say that never happen. Jobs himself killed the imessaging client on Android and was the one demending it stay green.

So I was curious about your claim that Apple tried to get others to join in on Messages/Facetime and did some digging. It sounds like they ran into a similar issue that Google did in getting RCS going, ie The Carriers. Seems like Apple and Google should team up and cooperate to address this predominately U.S.-centric issue. I won't hold my breath but maybe cross my fingers. I guess Google needs to add a little more money to the default search contract.

It was an old statement that Steve Jobs claimed it was going to be made an open standard. Truth was it never happened. Just people keep repeating the orginal statement which might of not been a lie at the time but since then it has become a lie. Apple never made it an open standard. Apple never opened it up to allow everyone to use it and tie in. If it was an open standard it was standard for somethings but the key part is that non apple users would not route threw Apple servers and systems so it might as well be a closed platform.

 

[Mity]

I've been quite supportive of the EU's push to standardize charging but I can't really see an argument for this when SMS already exists and both Google and Apple already utilize it. This is overreaching IMO.

 

[rubaxter]

Dear EU,

We are incapable of designing our own proprietary messaging platform and keeping it running for more than 5 years before canceling it for some other stupid moonshot our capricious mongrel Millennial coders do in their spare time.

...

Sincerely, Google.

This is a company that actually BOASTS they will support their phones for more than 2 years, as if that is some badge of honor, when I've moved to an iPhone bought at the same time as a Note 9 that has continued to receive support and OS upgrades YEARS beyond the abysmal Android model.

Android - Paid up customers are liabilities
Apple - Paying customers are assets.

 

[Pezimak]

Hmm. I'm so sure about this, basically Google can’t come up with a decent message solution, and so want to copy Apples by forcing them to open it up. Google would dump support for any messaging service they come up after a year or two anyway.… I’d rather they kept their mitts of Apples system.

 

[Pezimak]

Dear EU,

We are incapable of designing our own proprietary messaging platform and keeping it running for more than 5 years before canceling it for some other stupid moonshot our capricious mongrel Millennial coders do in their spare time.

Even though we are a $2 Trillion USD company.....

So, we wanna force our competition to open up their proprietary platform so we can flood it with more advertising featuring penis pills and other useless **** nobody actually clicks on.

We understand Facebook has Messenger and WhatsApp, which are more widely used and are the same monopolistic practices as Apple's iMessage but we conveniently left those out because we are merely just bullying Apple because we're losing the war against the relentless A and M series chips that are about to drown Intel and AMD before they cause Qualcomm a serious threat to their SnapDragon line....and if that's not scary enough it's an existential threat to our Goolge Tensor chips that power our dangerously small market share Pixel phones.

But yes, let's cause a big stupid argument about monopolies when Google basically pays tens of billions of dollars to make Google the default web browser on every device ever sold.

So, a bunch of nitpicking nerds will bitch and moan about how Apple holds a monopoly when Google does as well but I guess we have to argue over split hairs.

Sincerely, Google.

And you know if they got their mitts on Apples message service they’ll try to shove their quantum computer AI into it too.. that’ll be fun. Most likely promoting endless ads to you.

 

[jamezr]

Hmm. It so sure about this, basically Google can’t come up with a decent message solution, and so want to copy Apples by forcing them to open it up. Google would dump support for any messaging service they come up after a year or two anyway.… I’d rather they kept their mitts of Apples system.

You don't understand this issue do you? There is a standard that everyone else uses...then there is Apple's proprietary one. Everyone should be using the same standard. I have friends that do not use iPhones. When I send them pictures or something similar it does not always format correctly because there are 2 different things involved. If everyone used say RCS then it would ab formatted correctly and displayed correctly. If Apple doesn't want to use RCS...then open iMessage to everyone. Charge a licensing fee to Google if agreed on. But lets all get on the same standard so everting is the same for everyone.

 

[Zest28]

I heard that Whatsapp is the market leader in EU and not iMessage.

 

[icanhazmac]

Anti-consumerism on overdrive?

Not at all and I am not sure how you came to that misguided conclusion. In this case I am arguing that the EU is overstepping. Not every connector needs to be the same, not every chat program needs to be completely interoperable with each other. This is why programs like Whatsapp (🤮 ), Signal, Telegram exist. If I choose not to use them and stick to iMessage, or any other, that is my choice.

If you truly think every company should have their own standard you have absolutely no technological or historic insight into the field you are whining about.

Actually I'm all for it because that is where we get innovation. If Apple, or any other company, choose to design their own message service for their own devices then so be it. Others in the market will make up for that with interoperable products, that is the marketplace working as it should.

Nice try with your veiled insults regarding insight and whining, be better.

 

[Pezimak]

You don't understand this issue do you? There is a standard that everyone else uses...then there is Apple's proprietary one. Everyone should be using the same standard. I have friends that do not use iPhones. When I send them pictures or something similar it does not always format correctly because there are 2 different things involved. If everyone used say RCS then it would ab formatted correctly and displayed correctly. If Apple doesn't want to use RCS...then open iMessage to everyone. Charge a licensing fee to Google if agreed on. But lets all get on the same standard so everting is the same for everyone.

SMS and MMS are a thing that exist, and are a set standard, Google has been trying for years to make a system as good as Apples.

 

[cthompson94]

It is so strange here how many people encourage innovation, but then wants standards for everything. iMessage is far from new and everyone has seen it slowly grow in popularity over the years, but because everyone else was so lazy with messaging platforms or in Google's case axed everything and not looking long term now it is suddenly oh my way (RCS) or the highway. Apple's messaging there is the fallback of sms which is interoperability, no other messaging platform has basically been crapped on for having proprietary messaging and certainly having a fall back.

If I use FB messenger I cannot talk to my friend using signal nor can my signal account talk to my iMessage friend or my RCS friend. We use various messengers because of the feature differences not always because I can't send grandma a clear picture of my dog. Snapchat gained popularity because at the time it was unique, signal because of privacy, what's app because of feature set, if there is a standard then any new company would have to wait to release a new feature until it works with all the rest. Also how does everyone expect certain features to work correctly? for example, sending money through apple pay using iMessage how will that work if there is interoperability? guess what the whole blue bubbles thing will still be here! if there is interoperability just because i can send a friend a full res pic doesn't mean i can send apple cash, or play a little game via iMessage because they don't have that app. We would still need distinguishers to let us know visually what can and cant be done.

For those thinking of a system similar to the mail app where you can sign into various email accounts in one app, that just spells having a backdoor and I hope that you love being able to send grandma crispy photos more than the rude awakening a messaging backdoor would provide..

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

iMessage is open. I’m in multiple group chats with people who don’t have iPhones.

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

You don't understand this issue do you? There is a standard that everyone else uses...then there is Apple's proprietary one. Everyone should be using the same standard. I have friends that do not use iPhones. When I send them pictures or something similar it does not always format correctly because there are 2 different things involved. If everyone used say RCS then it would ab formatted correctly and displayed correctly. If Apple doesn't want to use RCS...then open iMessage to everyone. Charge a licensing fee to Google if agreed on. But lets all get on the same standard so everting is the same for everyone.

Use WhatsApp.

 

[jamezr]

SMS and MMS are a thing that exist, and are a set standard, Google has been trying for years to make a system as good as Apples.

Like I said you don't understand standards.... Its not about making a better system or product. Its about conforming to industry standards so messages and video are great quantity no matter what platform is ending or receiving the message or media.

 

[jamezr]

iMessage is open. I’m in multiple group chats with people who don’t have iPhones.

"iMessage is an instant messaging service developed by Apple Inc. and launched in 2011. iMessage functions exclusively on Apple platforms: macOS, iOS, iPadOS, and watchOS."

iMessage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Minato1990]

They need to shut the **** up.
Apple should respond by kicking out google from Safari

 

[eifelbube]

When I go to Disneyland, I pay to be in a walled garden, pay premium for everything. But that is my choice. I do not need dreamworks and Warner Bros also in there..

Are Disneyland, dreamworks, or Warner Bros. communication platforms? Have a hard time how this comparing apples to apples, sorry 🙂

 

[gsurf123]

iMessage is intellectual property that gives Apple‘s products something you cannot get anywhere else. If governments are going to effectively steal IP by forcing you to let others use it then they are stealing an advantage or market differentiator from Apple. What is the incentive if anyone can be forced to give away their IP. it is not if any consumer is asking for this.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

8 years adoption + 5 years RnD is good enough for you?
I assume you don't work tech, lol.

I’d assume you don’t, because you’d know that the only way you’re going to get companies to commit to support your new (lightning) port is if you give them assurances and then stick with them. Of course there ARE tech companies that don’t adhere to their stated business plans… but sticking with the timeline they gave seems to have worked out for Apple.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

And once again the EU is trying to over regulate. All in the name of advocating for the "good" of consumers.

Note: I actually live in the EU

*tips hat* Totally agree, unfortunately the US is going down a similar path.

 

[mazz0]

McDonald’s should also be forced to sell the whopper. What happens to the family that is split on the decision.

Are you suggesting families order a single burger and share it?

 

[DaveN]

No. Apple had to change how iMessage works from being a peer to peer solution to having the conversation handled by an Apple server because they lost the VirnetX lawsuit. This costs apple a lot of $$$ and if you force open iMessage who pays for the increase in server costs or do they allow the return of peer-to-peer?