Green Button - Maximize, Not Full Screen

[b0fh666]

interesting. it's been here since Lion

come to think of it, i noticed that 'preview' (pdf) windows do not fully maximise lately... but all the others maximize when I alt-click on the green stoplight.

will do some investigation... maybe its time to retire the bugger

 

[Freyqq]

Just use bettertouchtool and drag the window to the top

 

[KALLT]

Just use bettertouchtool and drag the window to the top

Indeed. Window maximising not standard functionality in OS X so it requires a third-party app. Lots of free ones available in the App Store. The OP even used one even before the green button got reversed, so it requires a little more adjustment. Just get over it, the system has changed a lot over the years and at some point you need to accept that Apple wants to change things, whether everyone agrees or not.

 

[Shirasaki]

No, I want the OPTION in system preferences to set it to work as it should, so that people with weird working habits like yourself dont feel like they're being snubbed rather than have it as it is currently; Apple's Way or the Highway, which you support.

Options, in other words, CHOICE, is a great thing and I've noticed that Apple and its users have a very hard time understanding this concept.

Core apple fans would NEVER understand what we are talking about.

 

[Shirasaki]

I simply never use full screen because it's useless, slow, laggy and prevents you from doing anything else other than that one app. Just Alt+Click on the green button or double click the title bar to get the old (also horrible, in my opinion) feature where the window randomly becomes a totally random shape and sized based on no logic whatsoever. I just think Apple should just remove the green button altogether as they have no idea what to do with it.

Unless in El Captain they've figured it out?

Windows aero snap can allow you snap windows side by side. Windows 10 can even let you snap at most 4 (or 6?) windows side by side. maximise button ALWAYS maximise the interface to fill the whole screen and interface NEVER cover the taskbar (with exception of some games or special softwares, and maybe, modern apps).

No one knows why apple design this button and let it does so many things which we don't even know the reason. I have seen el capitan can snap two windows side by side, but you should sacrifice everything, including docks, menu bars. I set both of them to auto hide but this is not so good as what I see in Windows.

 

[KALLT]

Windows aero snap can allow you snap windows side by side. Windows 10 can even let you snap at most 4 (or 6?) windows side by side. maximise button ALWAYS maximise the interface to fill the whole screen and interface NEVER cover the taskbar (with exception of some games or special softwares, and maybe, modern apps).

No one knows why apple design this button and let it does so many things which we don't even know the reason. I have seen el capitan can snap two windows side by side, but you should sacrifice everything, including docks, menu bars. I set both of them to auto hide but this is not so good as what I see in Windows.

What is there not to understand? The green button has, to my knowledge, never maximised a window like it does on Windows. It optimises the size of the window to something based on the content it is presenting and that depends on the view controller or the app itself. Safari aligns itself with the metrics of the website, Finder with the height of the sidebar or the columns (if column view is enabled). Some apps like iTunes actually do maximise the space, but that's because there is a lot of content to show. OS X has a different idea about windows and maximising all of them almost defeats the purpose. For users that wish to use the full space they brought fullscreen mode and for everyone else there are third-party solutions. A desktop OS doesn't end with these options, they are merely the defaults.

For what it's worth, Windows may have a more advanced window snapping feature, but they didn't have anything like Mission Control and Spaces until Windows 10. The start menus had very few options (always been like that) and the start screen was forced upon Windows 8.0 users too. OS X has a very flexible workflow that can be enhanced with simple and often free tools. I really don't see what the fuss is about, just because Apple doesn't have that one feature you like.

 

[Shirasaki]

What is there not to understand? The green button has, to my knowledge, never maximised a window like it does on Windows. It optimises the size of the window to something based on the content it is presenting and that depends on the view controller or the app itself. Safari aligns itself with the metrics of the website, Finder with the height of the sidebar or the columns (if column view is enabled). Some apps like iTunes actually do maximise the space, but that's because there is a lot of content to show. OS X has a different idea about windows and maximising all of them almost defeats the purpose. For users that wish to use the full space they brought fullscreen mode and for everyone else there are third-party solutions. A desktop OS doesn't end with these options, they are merely the defaults.

For what it's worth, Windows may have a more advanced window snapping feature, but they didn't have anything like Mission Control and Spaces until Windows 10. The start menus had very few options (always been like that) and the start screen was forced upon Windows 8.0 users too. OS X has a very flexible workflow that can be enhanced with simple and often free tools. I really don't see what the fuss is about, just because Apple doesn't have that one feature you like.

Hmm. Ok. I am a user using both Windows and Mac, although I didn't use mac much. It is clear that both OS have their own advantages and disadvantages.

I agree that with mission control, snapping between apps is far more easier than on Windows 7, but Windows also can give you a peak of Windows you have opened by simply putting mouse cursor on to the task bar app icon. It represents a quite different concept and understanding of human machine interaction. And more, the design of the interface.

 

[KALLT]

Hmm. Ok. I am a user using both Windows and Mac, although I didn't use mac much. It is clear that both OS have their own advantages and disadvantages.

I agree that with mission control, snapping between apps is far more easier than on Windows 7, but Windows also can give you a peak of Windows you have opened by simply putting mouse cursor on to the task bar app icon. It represents a quite different concept and understanding of human machine interaction. And more, the design of the interface.

Mission Control also shows live peeks of windows. There is even a third-party app that mimics the same feature in Windows (it's called HyperDock, I'm sure there are others). Yes, the approaches are different, but neither are wrong. You can use whatever suits you best or adjust it accordingly. That is true for all platforms, including and especially Linux. I actually switched to Mac precisely because I didn't agree with the desktop experience of Windows anymore. I have completely adjusted to the way things work on OS X and am now happy with it, although I do use several tools to enhance things (e.g. Dropshelf, Popclip).

 

[Shirasaki]

Mission Control also shows live peeks of windows. There is even a third-party app that mimics the same feature in Windows (it's called HyperDock, I'm sure there are others). Yes, the approaches are different, but neither are wrong. You can use whatever suits you best or adjust it accordingly. That is true for all platforms, including and especially Linux. I actually switched to Mac precisely because I didn't agree with the desktop experience of Windows anymore. I have completely adjusted to the way things work on OS X and am now happy with it, although I do use several tools to enhance things (e.g. Dropshelf, Popclip).

For me, whether use Windows or Mac, I mainly want to complete my job effectively. I greatly appreciate the optimisation (current in WWDC) of mac os x el capitan, because those things could greatly improve the functionality. However, it is still obvious that microsoft office for windows is much more powerful than office in mac, so I still need a full windows environment to do in-depth advanced document editing (including word, excel, and powerpoint). Plus, some great applications (such as visio, which I use a lot now) only provide Windows version, not mac version.

http://www.listary.com
Here is my beloved utility I only find on Windows, not on mac. The most appreciate function is it can quickly bring you to the path you are currently viewing in windows explorer (finder, for mac) when you open a "save" or "open" dialogue. This is really handy, and I use it much. Plus, the index speed in this application is astonishingly fast, while in mac, i didn't find any similar tool could provide such lightning speed search.

So, I don't want to blame Windows because it does not have mission control (prior Windows 10), and I don't want to blame mac os x because it does not have many handy apps available only on windows. All what I want is a system capable of finishing anything I throw at it, when I believe they could complete it with ease. (For example I will not play those monstrous level of PC games in a 2015 macbook)

 

[bladerunner2000]

Indeed. Window maximising not standard functionality in OS X so it requires a third-party app. Lots of free ones available in the App Store. The OP even used one even before the green button got reversed, so it requires a little more adjustment. Just get over it, the system has changed a lot over the years and at some point you need to accept that Apple wants to change things, whether everyone agrees or not.

So, we should just comply with stupid decisions from Apple? Why?

The green button in its current state is a damn trainwreck... the fact that there isnt an OPTION to change it to ones liking is pathetic. It takes TOO long to animated and takes up time AGAIN when animating when getting out of full screen. Apple should comply with OUR demands. Why are you defending them for these bonehead ideas that are enforced?

Let's be OBJECTIVE for once, and answer me this:

Why is the suggestion to make the green button's behavior adjustable to the users preference in System Preferences ignored or seen as a cardinal sin? WHY??

 

[Shirasaki]

So, we should just comply with stupid decisions from Apple? Why?

The green button in its current state is a damn trainwreck... the fact that there isnt an OPTION to change it to ones liking is pathetic. Apple should comply with OUR demands. Why are you defending them for these bonehead ideas that are enforced?

Let's be OBJECTIVE for once, and answer me this:

Why is the suggestion to make the green button's behavior adjustable to the users preference in System Preferences ignored or seen as a cardinal sin? WHY??

Because they have developed a way to intelligently adjust it's function according to the app? they don't want users get stuck into settings, refinement, and adjustments.

 

[bladerunner2000]

Because they have developed a way to intelligently adjust it's function according to the app? they don't want users get stuck into settings, refinement, and adjustments.

It doesn't matter, there'd be a default setting anyway, so it could remain as is but anyone who isn't a moron would know to go into system preferences and change it and make the world right.

 

[aevan]

Let's be OBJECTIVE for once, and answer me this:

Why is the suggestion to make the green button's behavior adjustable to the users preference in System Preferences ignored or seen as a cardinal sin? WHY??

While I personally wouldn't mind (or cared) about such an option in System Preferences, I can say that having too much options to tweak and adjust would kind of ruin the experience for me. I buy Apple because *I want* them to chose certain things for me. I know their choice will not always be the best one for me, but it's still better than having me spend time thinking about various options. When I say this to people they almost get angry about it, tell me I'm a sheep or a casual user. This is not true - in fact, quite the opposite. The things I'm passionate about I'm willing to tweak and adjust and try out (like setting all the brushes and tools in Photoshop, for example) - and the good thing is, thanks to the terminal and third party apps - OS X lets you do that. But for everything else, the things they designed with some thought - like, how the green + button works and stuff like that - I actually PREFER less choice. Whenever they add choice in one place, it has the potential to require choice in other places too. Instead, they offer just one (really good, btw) solution. That's Apple for you. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they need to tweak it (I never understood how the green button worked before.... when was it they changed it? Mountain Lion?).

This approach is not for everyone, and Apple is not for everyone. Luckily, there are other choices. May I suggest you try Windows 10? It seems to be quite a capable operating system (not sarcasm).

TLDR: Some of us prefer the way Apple does things.

BTW, I find it fascinating the things people get emotional about. You know, I really had issues with the performance of certain things in Yosemite. That's a real thing - it affects your work. And now they fixed it, and did it beautifully. But let's ignore that and be all upset because one part of the UI doesn't work the way we want and we can't change it's functionality (even though we're offered NUMEROUS ways to do what we want, like double-clicking the title bar or installing 3rd party apps, etc)

 

[redheeler]

While I personally wouldn't mind (or cared) about such an option in System Preferences, I can say that having too much options to tweak and adjust would kind of ruin the experience for me. I buy Apple because *I want* them to chose certain things for me. I know their choice will not always be the best one for me, but it's still better than having me spend time thinking about various options. When I say this to people they almost get angry about it, tell me I'm a sheep or a casual user. This is not true - in fact, quite the opposite. The things I'm passionate about I'm willing to tweak and adjust and try out (like setting all the brushes and tools in Photoshop, for example) - and the good thing is, thanks to the terminal and third party apps - OS X lets you do that. But for everything else, the things they designed with some thought - like, how the green + button works and stuff like that - I actually PREFER less choice. Whenever they add choice in one place, it has the potential to require choice in other places too. Instead, they offer just one (really good, btw) solution. That's Apple for you. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they need to tweak it (I never understood how the green button worked before.... when was it they changed it? Mountain Lion?).

This approach is not for everyone, and Apple is not for everyone. Luckily, there are other choices. May I suggest you try Windows 10? It seems to be quite a capable operating system (not sarcasm).

TLDR: Some of us prefer the way Apple does things.

BTW, I find it fascinating the things people get emotional about. You know, I really had issues with the performance of certain things in Yosemite. That's a real thing - it affects your work. And now they fixed it, and did it beautifully. But let's ignore that and be all upset because one part of the UI doesn't work the way we want and we can't change it's functionality (even though we're offered NUMEROUS ways to do what we want, like double-clicking the title bar or installing 3rd party apps, etc)

I have wanted a single, simple option to revert the default green button behavior since the first Yosemite beta. In fact, I find that I use fullscreen mode a lot on my 13" rMBP, but not on my 27" iMac, so I would have it set differently on both Macs.

But, you wouldn't want more settings in a settings app. Why not just remove the dark menu bar and dock setting as well, and force us to use the light ones instead?

 

[Shirasaki]

It doesn't matter, there'd be a default setting anyway, so it could remain as is but anyone who isn't a moron would know to go into system preferences and change it and make the world right.

Although I want to say this is a typical logic of a windows user, I don't use Windows as long as some others does, so I think this is not a good point.
There are many extremely difficult things in the world waiting for someone to take over it, and solve it. And I believe keeping everything in a good balance is one of them. Whether apple or Microsoft, they want to cover as many users as they can, so they can make profit from those users. Users, are their source of keeping themselves alive, and grow up. And you know, there is nothing in the world can put itself into an absolute state (absolute stop in one place, fro example). According to my not so long mac using experience, Mac is a Unix based system. This system focuses on keyboard stroke more than windows. You know Linux needs users to solve problems using terminal more often than using GUI, why? They think keyboard is somewhat more accurate than mouse. You may realise that mac has a lot of keyboard shortcuts, while windows users use mouse much more, so windows can expand their right click menu to implement more functions, while mac may use keyboard to do this rather than using right click menu.
To keep a good balance between user requests and functionality consistency (I think this is important), they must do very hard work, to figure out which is the best point of current version of OS.
Well, I need to learn much much more.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

That only resizes the window to some odd size. It should fill the screen without losing the dock and file menu. Full screen is ridiculous, how does ANYONE get work done in multiple apps like that? Does apple really expect users to go full screen, then out, switch to app, then full screen again

They want you to three-finger swipe to the desktop where your other apps are.

 

[redheeler]

Full screen is ridiculous, how does ANYONE get work done in multiple apps like that? Does apple really expect users to go full screen, then out, switch to app, then full screen again, then out, then full screen just to move files, import, export, etc. when switching between apps? This is the dumbest, counterproductive implementation Apple has ever done.

Swiping between fullscreen apps (three or four finger swipe on a trackpad) is very fluid and makes sense on a small 1280x800 screen where the app can take as much advantage of the screen space as possible. I keep my rMBP on the default resolution partly because of this.

 

[b0fh666]

it is... but i still don't like it. I only use fullscreen for VMs the rest are 'maximized' windows.

ps: indeed, rightzoom is useless in yosemite... just retired the bugger. have to do something on BTT to properly 'maximize' now

 

[throttlemeister]

No, I want the OPTION in system preferences to set it to work as it should, so that people with weird working habits like yourself dont feel like they're being snubbed rather than have it as it is currently; Apple's Way or the Highway, which you support.

Options, in other words, CHOICE, is a great thing and I've noticed that Apple and its users have a very hard time understanding this concept.

Actually, I totally get what you are saying and I agree with it. I rarely use Apple full screen (essentially only for my mail application) and I use 'normal' full for just about everything else. I absolutely do not support Apple's way or the highway, but I've also come to accept the fact that it's pretty much reality and there is nothing much I can do about it so I have to find my own ways of getting around Apple. For me, Moom works great. It also gives me proper split screen instead of the stupid iOS version Apple is giving us.

 

[throttlemeister]

On a more related note, you do know/use this option under 'Dock' in preferences?

Doesn't work 100% with all programs, but still..

 

[bmac89]

I really hope Apple will eventually give the option to change the default behaviour of the green button. If they want fullscreen mode by default, then that is fine by me... but please give the user the option to change the default behaviour back to zoom (or maximise) if they wish. Similar to scroll direction in system preferences. I would much rather have the old zoom button back and press alt + green button to activate fullscreen on the odd occasion I want to use it. By the way, I am not a Windows user - I just generally don't like working in fullscreen. I am aware of alternative apps but they only work on some windows such as finder and not all app windows.

In my opinion, I think it would make more sense to have:

1. Green button = zoom

2. Alt + green button = activate fullscreen

2b. Hold Green button down = activate fullscreen (instead of split screen feature)

3. Drag window = window snap / split screen

 

[KALLT]

So, we should just comply with stupid decisions from Apple? Why?

The green button in its current state is a damn trainwreck... the fact that there isnt an OPTION to change it to ones liking is pathetic. It takes TOO long to animated and takes up time AGAIN when animating when getting out of full screen. Apple should comply with OUR demands. Why are you defending them for these bonehead ideas that are enforced?

Let's be OBJECTIVE for once, and answer me this:

Why is the suggestion to make the green button's behavior adjustable to the users preference in System Preferences ignored or seen as a cardinal sin? WHY??

You ask me to be objective and then ask a loaded question with assumptions. That's a non-starter. Regardless of whether you think this particular decision is 'stupid', it just is how it is. Complain about it as long as you want, start a petition, rally support for it, but other than sending feedback or leaving the Mac platform, there is nothing you can do. You are not in the position to force Apple to give in to your demands. I'm afraid that I'm going to repeat myself again, but what Apple offers are defaults. OS X is a platform, you can and should use third-party apps to improve that experience. Lastly, I'm not against adding an option to change the default behaviour of the green button (although I'm actually satisfied with the fullscreen mode as it is, so much for 'bonehead' ideas) but I'm realistic enough to know that neither Apple, nor Microsoft nor any other software developer will cater to all my demands. Why wait when you can equally get what you need from others?

For me, whether use Windows or Mac, I mainly want to complete my job effectively. I greatly appreciate the optimisation (current in WWDC) of mac os x el capitan, because those things could greatly improve the functionality. However, it is still obvious that microsoft office for windows is much more powerful than office in mac, so I still need a full windows environment to do in-depth advanced document editing (including word, excel, and powerpoint). Plus, some great applications (such as visio, which I use a lot now) only provide Windows version, not mac version.

http://www.listary.com
Here is my beloved utility I only find on Windows, not on mac. The most appreciate function is it can quickly bring you to the path you are currently viewing in windows explorer (finder, for mac) when you open a "save" or "open" dialogue. This is really handy, and I use it much. Plus, the index speed in this application is astonishingly fast, while in mac, i didn't find any similar tool could provide such lightning speed search.

Have you ever used Spotlight in Finder? It is an indexed search as well and you can set the default to search in the current folder in Finder preferences. As for showing the current path in the save panel, that is indeed a good one. But as you see, it's not a standard function in Windows either. I don't know whether anything like that exists for OS X, but perhaps you can work something out with Finder's smart folders or you can drag your current folder to the sidebar or assign a tag to it. Then it will show up in the save panel too. Finder has some powerful features that often go unnoticed. Sometimes you just need to think a bit outside the box.

Mind you, Microsoft Office is predominantly a Windows application. It happens to be the one application that is without equal even on Windows itself. However, nothing is stopping you from using a virtual workstation like VMWare, Virtual Box or Wine. Also, if your desktop use is so dependent upon Microsoft Office then there might be no good reason to use OS X.

 

[bladerunner2000]

While I personally wouldn't mind (or cared) about such an option in System Preferences, I can say that having too much options to tweak and adjust would kind of ruin the experience for me. I buy Apple because *I want* them to chose certain things for me. I know their choice will not always be the best one for me, but it's still better than having me spend time thinking about various options. When I say this to people they almost get angry about it, tell me I'm a sheep or a casual user. This is not true - in fact, quite the opposite. The things I'm passionate about I'm willing to tweak and adjust and try out (like setting all the brushes and tools in Photoshop, for example) - and the good thing is, thanks to the terminal and third party apps - OS X lets you do that. But for everything else, the things they designed with some thought - like, how the green + button works and stuff like that - I actually PREFER less choice. Whenever they add choice in one place, it has the potential to require choice in other places too. Instead, they offer just one (really good, btw) solution. That's Apple for you. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they need to tweak it (I never understood how the green button worked before.... when was it they changed it? Mountain Lion?).

This approach is not for everyone, and Apple is not for everyone. Luckily, there are other choices. May I suggest you try Windows 10? It seems to be quite a capable operating system (not sarcasm).

TLDR: Some of us prefer the way Apple does things.

BTW, I find it fascinating the things people get emotional about. You know, I really had issues with the performance of certain things in Yosemite. That's a real thing - it affects your work. And now they fixed it, and did it beautifully. But let's ignore that and be all upset because one part of the UI doesn't work the way we want and we can't change it's functionality (even though we're offered NUMEROUS ways to do what we want, like double-clicking the title bar or installing 3rd party apps, etc)

LOL!! Too much options? How is this single options that you'll NEVER see unless you go into system preferences something thats going to ruin the experience for you? HOW?

For about 15 years we had the green button working one (inconsistent) way with an open API for 3rd party apps (rightzoom) to adjust the settings to make it right, all of a sudden Apple screws this up, and it's now 'improved'?

Let's say we have to bow down to you're demands of keeping things as primitive and locked down as possible and let OS X stay as narrowminded as it is by forcing us go into full screen mode when 90% of dont want to ever see iPad view on a desktop. WHY then did Apple close the API thus making it impossible for 3rd party apps like RightZoom to continue to function as we'd like it to? In this case, you'd have NO argument at all to cry about 'too many options' in OSX while still satisfying those that did want to change things TO THEIR LIKING, because let's face it; the way YOU like things to be does speak for the 7 billion other people on this planet.

Please know that Apple DOES do some things wrong, and this instance, is one of them.

 

[bladerunner2000]

On a more related note, you do know/use this option under 'Dock' in preferences?

Doesn't work 100% with all programs, but still..

The hell? Why is THAT option (oh noez! too much options!) in the dock settings?

 

[bladerunner2000]

They want you to three-finger swipe to the desktop where your other apps are.

No, Apple is just continuing to ram iOS down our throats. Mac OS is just getting the iPadified.

If I wanted a tablet view of working in apps, I'd get a tablet. But even Apple realizes that a single app view isn't always the 'preferred choice' and iOS 9 implemented split window mode. Gee, I wonder why?!