Gurman: Apple Testing 'M3 Pro' Chip for MacBook Pro With 12-Core CPU and 18-Core GPU

[chucker23n1]

I thought the rumor is that the 12 core M3Pro chip being tested is likely to be the Base Model M3Pro?

That part is just Gurman guessing. (Or it's the MacRumors author putting words in Gurman's mouth; not sure. I don't have access to the original article.)

I don't think it's likely that the base model goes from 16 GiB RAM to 36. Seems more likely that 36 is some new mid-range configuration, and perhaps the new low-end is 18 or 24.

10 P-cores would be an odd configuration.

The M2 Pro is 10 or 12 p-cores.

 

[chucker23n1]

If M3 Pro maintains the same number of Performance cores we are going to be looking at a similar boost.

So 30% increase in 3 generations is pretty underwhelming IMO.

There are a lot more factors than number of cores.

Is the design more efficient? Does it run at a higher clock (not unlikely, due to the smaller process node)? Is the scheduler more efficient? Is the memory controller faster?

 

[Populus]

The M2 Pro is 10 or 12 p-cores.

Nope! The M2 Pro has 10 cpu cores but from those, 4 are high efficiency cores. Only 6 are p-cores. On the 12 core models I guess it’s 4+8.

 

[leman]

The M2 Pro is 10 or 12 p-cores.

M2 Pro is exactly 8 P-cores arranged as two 4-core clusters; plus one cluster of 4 E-cores. Some M2 Pro products ship with two P-cores disabled (I don’t know if it’s a core per cluster or two cores from one cluster).

 

[precision01]

Correction: Current gen M2 Pro has 19 core GPU, and not 16 core, as stated. So, if it becomes true, M3 Pro Will have less 1 Core, when compared to M2 Pro.
This is probably due to the Apple's stop-gap policy: M3 Pro with 18-core GPU and M4 Pro with, maybe 21 core GPU. M3 Max with 36-core GPU and M4 Max with 42-Core GPU....

 

[Pinkyyy 💜🍎]

To expand on this. I think a number of factors make it harder to do now.

It was removed because it was seriously impacting panel quality. You basically had a hole in your lid that let environmental light shine through and ruin your screen's accuracy. At the same time, Apple really values content accuracy, so it was logical to ditch it.

The light it emitted was also just the LED backlight used for the LCD. Today we have two new technologies either implemented or always rumoured to be planned for upcoming models, Mini-LED and OLED, that would bring extreme unevenness to a glowing Apple-logo. It would essentially mean that they would have to implement a separate light for the logo this time around.

While not impossible to re-implement, it would complicate the product. So question is if the designers at Apple consider it worth it or not.

I see ! I bet adding it again would mean they'd probably have to make the chassis thicker if they'd have to make a separate light source for the logo, which would also make it a little too complicated. Makes sense why it was removed, but it was still pretty cool-looking.

 

[steve123]

The MP 6,1 and 7.1 use ECC RAM so it is a near certainty the next AS MP will also use ECC RAM. If Apple is testing a AS Mac Pro, which is likely given we know it is in the queue, the new AS Mac Pro will use ECC RAM. 4GB is the amount of RAM required to implement ECC for a 32GB memory. Thus, Mark Gurman's statement regarding 36GB RAM may be rational.

Probability of the MP announcement at WWDC is looking better and better.

 

[chucker23n1]

M2 Pro is exactly 8 P-cores arranged as two 4-core clusters; plus one cluster of 4 E-cores. Some M2 Pro products ship with two P-cores disabled (I don’t know if it’s a core per cluster or two cores from one cluster).

You're right.

 

[CWallace]

Frankly, I’m beginning to wonder if they shouldn’t have released the M2 chip, and just gone straight for M3.

The M2 just doesn’t make sense in hindsight. It was M1 with minor performance improvements.

The original road map from TSMC implied they would have full-scale 3nm fabrication in 2022, which would have allowed A16 and M2 to be on 3nm. TSMC was unable to meet this date, so A16 and M2 had to be fabricated on (an improved) 5nm process which is why A16 and M2 were only (relatively) modest improvements over A15 and M1.

I know this sounds ridiculous, but why not just cut the price of M1 for a year and then release the M3 or whatever it would’ve been called?

That is not how Apple operates. They release newer generation versions of products at the same price and then sell the (now) older generation for a discount. So Apple could not lower M1 Mac prices until they had M2 Macs.

yep, nicely summarized. as usual, he just throws things out there to see what sticks, he has no "insider info" what Apple is really doing, and I'm also more and more convinced that some of his "leaks" are planted by Apple ...

All of these analysts get their information from the supply chain and the factories. The problem is, neither the supply chain nor the factory know what these products are for so the analysts have to guess.

It is completely possible this "36GB M3" configuration is nothing more than an Engineering Sample being tested by Apple and will never ship in a 2023/2024 MacBook model. It is also completely possible this is the top-end M3 configuration for the 2023 13" MacBook Air and 13" MacBook Pro. We don't know - and neither do the analysts.



As for the 36GB being a typo, that sounds plausible, but then one would like to think Bloomberg has competent copy-editors who would have caught it. Then again, Bloomberg published (and continues to stand by) a completely bulls**t article about how every SuperMicro server BIOS has a backdoor in it that provides the Chinese government full-visibility into the system and it's data.

 

[CWallace]

The MP 6,1 and 7.1 use ECC RAM so it is a near certainty the next AS MP will also use ECC RAM. If Apple is testing a AS Mac Pro, which is likely given we know it is in the queue, the new AS Mac Pro will use ECC RAM. 4GB is the amount of RAM required to implement ECC for a 32GB memory. Thus, Mark Gurman's statement regarding 36GB RAM may be rational.

But then that implies Apple would be shipping a Mac Pro configuration with a low(er)-end M3, which does not sound plausible.

And ECC RAM capacities are normally expressed in terms of usable capacity. So an ECC DIMM would be marketed as 32GB, even if there is actually 36GB of storage on the DIMM.

 

[Howard2k]

Not sure all that speed is useful if it won't run Windows x64.

Agreed. It’s about time that there were some native Apple silicon apps released. It’s terrible that none exist yet.

 

[DavidSchaub]

I think Apple is generally far more concerned with "the snappy" than outright performance, mostly because they're doing well there already.

Their chips single thread performance is still very good (and stunning for the power draw). The kicker is, once we you have 8 P-cores, the value adding each additional performance core isn't as great depending on workload.

Apple can probably add about 3 new E-Cores for the silicon space and thermal envelope of a single new P-Core?

Modern computers do have TONS of processes and threads. So generally adding MORE parallelization wins.


I do not grok the M2 hate. It is a fine "same process" upgrade. Suggesting the M2 shouldn't have existed is ridiculous. Apple is never going to get a new process every year, so why not spend years between process nodes upgrading architecture and making the product better. Apple really doesn't feel it can stop making a new iPhone SoC every year. I think having to do same-process-node upgrades probably helps chip designers do better work.

 

[chucker23n1]

I did not grok the M2 hate. It is a fine "same process" upgrade. Suggesting the M2 shouldn't have existed is ridiculous.

Agreed. They already had the microarchitecture anyway due to the iPhone 13.

That said, I think they'll skip one sooner or later. If the M3 doesn't go straight from A15 to A17, I'm guessing the M4 will go from A16 to A18.

 

[BornAgainMac]

If the M3 Pro is that good, I won't buy my next Mac or iPad until the M6.

 

[DavidSchaub]

Correction: Current gen M2 Pro has 19 core GPU, and not 16 core, as stated. So, if it becomes true, M3 Pro Will have less 1 Core, when compared to M2 Pro.

Not quite?

The Rumour was about the binned-down base SKU.

Current base SKU:
M2 Pro 16 GPUs (the higher binned one has 19 GPUs)

Rumoured base SKU:
M3 Pro 18 GPUs (the higher binned one is rumoured to have 20 cores)

 

[Pinkyyy 💜🍎]

I thought Safari comes with anti-tracking features like iCloud+ Private Relay and Intelligent Tracking Prevention. I am using Safari as my main browser and it does the job against the trackers. Apple should come with some intelligent ad blockers. I hate ads even though it's a source of revenue for the websites.

Agreed. That's why I use Safari as my main browser. I do wish it would come with ad blockers though.

 

[steve123]

But then that implies Apple would be shipping a Mac Pro configuration with a low(er)-end M3, which does not sound plausible.

And ECC RAM capacities are normally expressed in terms of usable capacity. So an ECC DIMM would be marketed as 32GB, even if there is actually 36GB of storage on the DIMM.

Mark Gurman's article suggested a "high end MBP" which is either an M3 Pro or an M3 Max. I am trying to make sense of the reference to "36GB of memory". IMO, the inclusion of ECC is a reasonable explanation for this amount of memory. I agree with you that ECC memory is specified by the usable amount of storage but the Gurman reference is derived from an App Store developer log that may include more technical detail of the underlying memory and may easily be misinterpreted by someone who does not understand how to read those logs properly.

It makes no technical sense to implement the odd amount of memory (the DRAM chips themselves are manufactured in sizes that are a power of 2). It is within the realm of technical possibility that the additional 4GB of RAM used for ECC could be repurposed for general storage for mac variants that do not require ECC (Mac Mini, iMac, MBP). So, when used in a Mac Pro the user has 32 GB of usable error corrected RAM and when used in say something like a MBP, you have 36GB of usable non error corrected RAM. That way, the same module could be used for either product. Given that AS integrates discrete DRAM with the SoC in the AS module and avoids the use of traditional memory modules, Apple would have to implement the ECC logic into the memory controller of the M3. So, reconfiguration of the memory is likely possible. This configuration flexibility may appear in a log during development but Apple may never offer to sell a product in such a configuration.

I think Gurman's report is more evidence of the existence of an M3 variant destined for the AS Mac Pro. Such M3 variant being a module with an additional discrete DRAM used for ECC. Apple would likely offer the variant with different amounts of memory, the 36 GB variant mentioned likely being the base memory configuration for the new AS Mac Pro.

 

[steve123]

It’s about time that there were some native Apple silicon apps released. It’s terrible that none exist yet.

Can you explain a bit more what you intended to convey? There are literally 1000's of AS apps now.

 

[Realityck]

I think Gurman's report is more evidence of the existence of an M3 variant destined for the AS Mac Pro. Such M3 variant being a module with an additional discrete DRAM used for ECC. Apple would likely offer the variant with different amounts of memory, the 36 GB variant mentioned likely being the base memory configuration for the new AS Mac Pro.

Reference
Apple Inc. is still a few weeks away from debuting its next set of Macs with M2 chips, but that’s not stopping it from readying a follow-up processor: the M3.

The company has begun putting next-generation Macs with the M3 chips through their paces, testing them with third-party apps to ensure compatibility with its software ecosystem. It’s not the first time that we’ve gotten an early glimpse at new chips through this process. The company has previously revealed specifications of the upcoming 15-inch MacBook Air and Apple Silicon Mac Pro, as well as many of the prior M2-based machines.

The company needs fresh ways to entice customers back to the lineup, and the M3 could help with that. Apple’s Mac business suffered a 31% sales decline last quarter, missing analysts’ already-downbeat estimates.
======
I doubt Apple has reveled specifications like he said. Interesting he says what is in bold, then later in the article he has this.
======

My belief is the first Macs with M3 chips will begin arriving toward the end of the year or early next year. While the first 15-inch MacBook Air with an M2 chip is set to arrive this summer, the company is already working on M3-based iMacs, high-end and low-end MacBook Pros, and MacBook Airs, I’m told.

My belief and so I am told, doesn't match Apple previously revealing specifications. I mean how many years have we all been reading rumors hearing that Apple revealed specifications in advance?

 

[CWallace]

I think Gurman's report is more evidence of the existence of an M3 variant destined for the AS Mac Pro. Such M3 variant being a module with an additional discrete DRAM used for ECC. Apple would likely offer the variant with different amounts of memory, the 36 GB variant mentioned likely being the base memory configuration for the new AS Mac Pro.

Well there is that reference to a "compute module" in iOS 16.4 and some believe that if this is for the Mac Pro, it could offer multi-SOC configurations plugged into a common backplane to allow for more compute and GPU cores than a single M3 Ultra or theoretical "M3 Extreme" could offer.

 

[tipoo]

I hope 36GB means they're jumping to 12GB modules, so the M3 base Air would at least start with 12GB. Moving up from 8 which was growing annoying, but still keeping space from the Pros.

 

[Pinkyyy 💜🍎]

Thanks @chucker23n1. I know there are still many unknowns, but I’m intensely curious to see if the M3 might allow the rumored 15” Air to come close to the performance the M1 Max — hence the question. Thanks for sharing your perspective. 🙏🏽

The 15" MacBook Air most likely won't even come with M3, it'll come with M2 .. at least that's what the rumors say.

 

[Havoc035]

An M3 Pro MBP could be my next so here's to hoping M3 will deliver.

 

[Howard2k]

Can you explain a bit more what you intended to convey? There are literally 1000's of AS apps now.

I thought we were playing the "alternate reality" game. The person I quoted said it wouldn't matter without x64 support, which would make sense if there were no AS apps.

Clearly there are thousands of those apps in our reality, but perhaps not in the alternate reality that the other poster lives in.

 

[steve123]

I thought we were playing the "alternate reality" game. The person I quoted said it wouldn't matter without x64 support, which would make sense if there were no AS apps.

Ahh, ok, a little sarcasm. Apologies I did not realize that. LOL.

Back in our reality, AS outperforms Intel/AMD/nVidia running Windows x64 in many use cases now and it is getting better day by day as the underlying AS software API's mature. M3 will widen the gap.