Yes, recommending Apple products is tough at the moment. With a few exceptions: The iPhone 13 mini for those into small phones, the AirPods 2, and possibly the new Apple TV if you need a TV streaming device.
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All iPads Has Apple finally done it this year?
- Thread starter bobjonesco
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The iPhones have much higher sales numbers, so it’s probably more “worthwhile” for Apple to strip down what’s included for those. It might catch up to the iPads eventually…Just to add to this thread.....
Whyyyyy do you get a charger (not that I am knocking this) with the £369 iPad, but not with a £1k+ iPhone.....?
What is the logic....
Right. As far as I’m concerned, the trouble began with iOS 7 and iPhone 6.
Honestly, I find the iPad 9th gen an easy recommendation still since most people I know don't want to spend a lot on the iPad. At $269 for iPad 9th gen vs $449 for iPad 10th gen, most of my acquaintances will choose the 9th gen.
You’re right, the iPad 9th is fine if you just need any iPad and aren’t too particular about the display. The price is a bit steep now in Euroland (430 € or something) for what it is, but I guess it’s still affordable.
One thing that you can always do -- and I frequently do -- is buy preowned
Lots of people can't seem to control their urges and are always selling very new Apple things for 10-20-30% off retail (sometimes more)
I just finally moved to an iPhone Mini 13 128gb and got one that is a few months old, the great green color, mint in all ways I could tell (including 100% battery health) -- for $400
Lots of people can't seem to control their urges and are always selling very new Apple things for 10-20-30% off retail (sometimes more)
I just finally moved to an iPhone Mini 13 128gb and got one that is a few months old, the great green color, mint in all ways I could tell (including 100% battery health) -- for $400
Just to add to this thread.....
Whyyyyy do you get a charger (not that I am knocking this) with the £369 iPad, but not with a £1k+ iPhone.....?
What is the logic....
It's "good for the environment"
In this case, the "environment" is the "Apple selling accessories" business environment
Agreed, that actually feels like it’s worth something that’s not compromised for the money.
From my perspective, this issue is more glaring only because Apple's product line-up is kinda cluttered.
You can look at the MacBooks for starters.
Ok, the M1 MacBook Air is still good. But they've left this 2 year old product at the same price. It should be at least $899.
The 13" MacBook Pro M2 shouldn't exist. If it exists merely to fill a gap because of a pending larger 15" MacBook well that's not really good planning on Apple's part. The supply chain may be partly responsible here but still.
The Apple Studio Display. Over-engineered & overpriced. It should have the height-adjustable stand as default too.
The "new" 10th generation iPad has me wondering why the iPad Air still exists in the line up. And further why did Apple skim on the Apple Pencil here? Seems like nickel & diming for sure!
The same 5GB of storage on iCloud that's existed for over a decade. And the storage tiers on iCloud are outrageously priced.
I could go on but that's the gist of it. Makes you question the value because of the product overlap. Bring back a form of the quadrant that Steve had.
Besides the Macs, which I think Apple is doing a good job, except for the M2 Macbook Pro, which there is no need to exist, Sure, the Studio Display is good and 4K will never be as good, I wish they just make the stand option interchangable and not having to buy it at purchase.
Everything else is questionable. Besides the iPhone 14 Pro/Max that got the new stuff, the iPhone 14 and 14 Plus is the same phone as last year and a bad value (people will defend the 14 Plus, but I think it’s a bad value since it’s using the same chip and cameras). The iPad Pro M2 is an extremely minor update, more so than the 2020 model with the Apple 12Z SOC and two cameras. The Series 8 is very minor, but I upgraded since my Series 4 is 4 years old. The new iPad is a complete joke, using a new keyboard case that doesn’t work with the higher end iPads, still have a non-laminated display, still uses the Apple Pencil 1 and not two, and using the A14, which means you don’t get Stage Manager. Also, the price makes it not worth it at all since you can get an iPad Air 5 on sale for around $515 or even a 2018/2020 iPad Pro, which is just as fast and has more features, including Stage Manager, which the iPad 10 doesn’t even have. In my opinion, the iPad 10 is a terrible value, just like the iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Plus.
As for ditching the Apple Ecosystem, I’m too entenched. Also, the alternatives aren’t that appealing. I do not like Google since they don’t give a crap about privacy, less so than Apple. Outside the Pixel phones, Android phones at best only gets two years of updates before they become obsolete, compared to the iPhone, which receives 6-7 years of updates. Also, Google’s ecosystem is non-existant as they tend to kill off products. You can’t really trust them when they kill off projects early on like Stadia, which has been a disaster when it started until they killed it off.
As for Windows, it’s an unpleasant experience and high maintenance due to Windows rot. Also, I hate the direction Windows is going since Windows 8 as 10/11 is practically spyware with forced Microsoft accounts, especially on Windows 11 and ads on the start menu with preloaded apps. Also, the loss of control and customizability of Windows 11 is a big downside, although macOS never really have UI customization, besides the Application Enhancer stuff in the 10.0-10.4 days. The only thing Windows has going for is gaming, that’s it. Linux is not an option either since it lacks productivity apps like Adobe suite, Microsoft Office, etc.
So no, I’m not leaving Apple since it’s the best option, and all the alternatives are just bad or too many drawbacks. It doesn’t bother me too much as I keep my gear for at least 3-4 years or a little more.
Everything else is questionable. Besides the iPhone 14 Pro/Max that got the new stuff, the iPhone 14 and 14 Plus is the same phone as last year and a bad value (people will defend the 14 Plus, but I think it’s a bad value since it’s using the same chip and cameras). The iPad Pro M2 is an extremely minor update, more so than the 2020 model with the Apple 12Z SOC and two cameras. The Series 8 is very minor, but I upgraded since my Series 4 is 4 years old. The new iPad is a complete joke, using a new keyboard case that doesn’t work with the higher end iPads, still have a non-laminated display, still uses the Apple Pencil 1 and not two, and using the A14, which means you don’t get Stage Manager. Also, the price makes it not worth it at all since you can get an iPad Air 5 on sale for around $515 or even a 2018/2020 iPad Pro, which is just as fast and has more features, including Stage Manager, which the iPad 10 doesn’t even have. In my opinion, the iPad 10 is a terrible value, just like the iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Plus.
As for ditching the Apple Ecosystem, I’m too entenched. Also, the alternatives aren’t that appealing. I do not like Google since they don’t give a crap about privacy, less so than Apple. Outside the Pixel phones, Android phones at best only gets two years of updates before they become obsolete, compared to the iPhone, which receives 6-7 years of updates. Also, Google’s ecosystem is non-existant as they tend to kill off products. You can’t really trust them when they kill off projects early on like Stadia, which has been a disaster when it started until they killed it off.
As for Windows, it’s an unpleasant experience and high maintenance due to Windows rot. Also, I hate the direction Windows is going since Windows 8 as 10/11 is practically spyware with forced Microsoft accounts, especially on Windows 11 and ads on the start menu with preloaded apps. Also, the loss of control and customizability of Windows 11 is a big downside, although macOS never really have UI customization, besides the Application Enhancer stuff in the 10.0-10.4 days. The only thing Windows has going for is gaming, that’s it. Linux is not an option either since it lacks productivity apps like Adobe suite, Microsoft Office, etc.
So no, I’m not leaving Apple since it’s the best option, and all the alternatives are just bad or too many drawbacks. It doesn’t bother me too much as I keep my gear for at least 3-4 years or a little more.
Apple had “done it” for me a long time ago.
Happily on a Windows laptop for the first time in twelve years. Temporarily on an iPhone SE because my previous phone (Android) had an unexpected death, but if real-world usage reports look good for the Pixel 7 by December then that’s the direction I’m headed as well. Not a tear shed from me!
It’s really too bad, because I’ve had my share of Apple products. Their products just don’t suit me anymore. And their prices definitely don’t.
Happily on a Windows laptop for the first time in twelve years. Temporarily on an iPhone SE because my previous phone (Android) had an unexpected death, but if real-world usage reports look good for the Pixel 7 by December then that’s the direction I’m headed as well. Not a tear shed from me!
It’s really too bad, because I’ve had my share of Apple products. Their products just don’t suit me anymore. And their prices definitely don’t.
You have to try starting with one alternative device, and work from there.
I disagree I fundamentally think that this year's supply chain and tech have not advanced enough for the significant upgrades you may want. I don't have high hopes for my most beloved Macbook Pro... The chip shortage has been a considerable hindrance; COVID and wars have also affected the pipeline... Apple is trying to establish new production hubs in India and other sectors. It appears that APPLE knows this year is not a significant upgrade for many of their devices. I have no desire to upgrade from my Apple Watch Series 7 to the eight because nothing has changed. Although, the ultra is attractive! I don't see the need to upgrade my Apple TV 4K at this time. Theirs has been nothing substantial in regards to the Ipad Pro that would make me upgrade it either... I did upgrade my iPhone... I'm an iPhone Cultist... but trust me, the innovation is coming... iPad 10 was a test run on the camera positioning on ipad
My take on this after all the comments may be different than most. First off it doesn't matter if you use Apple products or Windows/Android products. They both will get the job done. It is more a personal preference.
I also don't think that Apple products are. bad value in general I think they are a better value than the competition. They are not cheap and that is where the divide might be. You generally can get more "specs" and maybe more "features" for your money outside of Apple products but that comes at a cost too. Generally cheap Windows and Android product feel cheap. Once you start getting to middle and above spec devices the cost is almost the same and with Apple you are getting a better processor and fast ram in every segment.
Software support from Apple is better. You will have a device supported generally longer with some exceptions for Windows.
Take for example laptops. You can get a workstation from Dell or HP and they will generally cost around 2k and way up and a 14/16" MBP will meet them at every price point. Yet the MBP is a much better made device, has better battery life and generally better speakers. On the ultra book side you can get a cheap M1 MBA for around $799 and I have even seen them less and besides the older design the laptop is better than cheap ultra books in every way.
Dell XPS 13" vs M2 MBA and again the M2 MBA will generally cost less and be a much better laptop and do it all without fans!
Tablets. You can still get the regular 9th gen iPad and it is a great cheaper tablet and sales under $300. You can get a Samsung s6 lite which is a great tablet too but generally besides the non laminated screen it is a better device. If you want a better tablet then iPad Air 5th gen is a very nice alternative BUT Apple screwed up with the base storage and should have doubled it on the air. Samsung S8 11" in very well matched to the air and even the Pro but the M1/M2 processor destroys the 8 gen 1.
However I think the days of this device is so much better are over in tablet land as Samsung S series tablets are well matched to iPads. On the laptops I think Apple has a clear lead for now.
In the end you just have to pick what you like and not worry about the company. Apple is there to make money and they do that very well. Don't let yourself get upsold because the lower middle is a pretty sweet spot for Apple devices right now. An older M1 iPP or 5th gen iPad Air are close in price and about the best tablets you can buy. Everything else is either too cheap or too expensive IMHO.
I also don't think that Apple products are. bad value in general I think they are a better value than the competition. They are not cheap and that is where the divide might be. You generally can get more "specs" and maybe more "features" for your money outside of Apple products but that comes at a cost too. Generally cheap Windows and Android product feel cheap. Once you start getting to middle and above spec devices the cost is almost the same and with Apple you are getting a better processor and fast ram in every segment.
Software support from Apple is better. You will have a device supported generally longer with some exceptions for Windows.
Take for example laptops. You can get a workstation from Dell or HP and they will generally cost around 2k and way up and a 14/16" MBP will meet them at every price point. Yet the MBP is a much better made device, has better battery life and generally better speakers. On the ultra book side you can get a cheap M1 MBA for around $799 and I have even seen them less and besides the older design the laptop is better than cheap ultra books in every way.
Dell XPS 13" vs M2 MBA and again the M2 MBA will generally cost less and be a much better laptop and do it all without fans!
Tablets. You can still get the regular 9th gen iPad and it is a great cheaper tablet and sales under $300. You can get a Samsung s6 lite which is a great tablet too but generally besides the non laminated screen it is a better device. If you want a better tablet then iPad Air 5th gen is a very nice alternative BUT Apple screwed up with the base storage and should have doubled it on the air. Samsung S8 11" in very well matched to the air and even the Pro but the M1/M2 processor destroys the 8 gen 1.
However I think the days of this device is so much better are over in tablet land as Samsung S series tablets are well matched to iPads. On the laptops I think Apple has a clear lead for now.
In the end you just have to pick what you like and not worry about the company. Apple is there to make money and they do that very well. Don't let yourself get upsold because the lower middle is a pretty sweet spot for Apple devices right now. An older M1 iPP or 5th gen iPad Air are close in price and about the best tablets you can buy. Everything else is either too cheap or too expensive IMHO.
This year's Ipad changes feel like a transition year. The 10th gen Ipad got the landscape camera but got saddled with the OG pencil and a major price increase as well as the normal limitations of a basic Ipad. The new Ipad Pros got the newer processor and an IpadOS improvement to make them more usable, but the selfie camera remained in the awkward portrait location.
In typical apple fashion, next year probably fixes the limitations of both - better camera placement for the IPP and the better pencil for the Ipad and pricing that makes sense again. That's too bad, because I would have liked the mini-led on the 12.9 IPP to upgrade my old 12.9 and was about to start recommending new Ipads to family members.
In typical apple fashion, next year probably fixes the limitations of both - better camera placement for the IPP and the better pencil for the Ipad and pricing that makes sense again. That's too bad, because I would have liked the mini-led on the 12.9 IPP to upgrade my old 12.9 and was about to start recommending new Ipads to family members.
That’s an amazing deal, congrats! I absolutely adore my green 13 mini
🍀
I really don't understand this mindset . . . at all. If you don't like the pricing of their newest products, then don't buy them. You don't need to dump all your existing Apple productsJust wait until used/refurbished ones show up and save money that way instead.
But for some reason, some people on this forum take everything Apple does very personally/emotionally. They're a business, not your lover, lol!
Just wait until used/refurbished ones show up and save money that way instead. It’s a forum mate and people come here to share their opinions and often their frustrations. You’re right, people don’t have to buy new Apple products and many this aren’t. You also don’t have to respond to those who complain if your don’t want to, it’s not compulsory.
You pay not to have to deal with pain-in-the-ass hardware and software. It's money for time.
In Europe they‘ve certainly reached the point of where I feel like the premium they‘re demanding isn‘t worth it anymore.
I tried a Google Pixel 4a not long ago and the truth is that Android devices (and many competitor products, for that matter) are often fantastic offerings, particularly when it comes to value for money. That was a perfect phone for the price with a fantastic camera, and it cost me only 350€. Apple‘s closest offering is the 7 year old SE chassis with some software updates.
There are of course always going to be features that some people won‘t be able to live without, like maybe there’s someone out there who absolutely needs a LIDAR sensor on their phone. But for everyone else, there are many devices out there that do mostly the same thing, but for much cheaper.
The same thing goes for the iPad and the majority of Apple‘s products. Sure, the iPad is a nice tablet. But if a standard iPad now costs in excess of 500€, and I only need something to watch video and browse the web, why wouldn‘t I go for a cheaper Android tablet instead?
It‘ll be interesting to see what their performance in Europe will be. I think they‘re still great devices, but unless you‘re getting a deal, the value is hard to find these days.
I tried a Google Pixel 4a not long ago and the truth is that Android devices (and many competitor products, for that matter) are often fantastic offerings, particularly when it comes to value for money. That was a perfect phone for the price with a fantastic camera, and it cost me only 350€. Apple‘s closest offering is the 7 year old SE chassis with some software updates.
There are of course always going to be features that some people won‘t be able to live without, like maybe there’s someone out there who absolutely needs a LIDAR sensor on their phone. But for everyone else, there are many devices out there that do mostly the same thing, but for much cheaper.
The same thing goes for the iPad and the majority of Apple‘s products. Sure, the iPad is a nice tablet. But if a standard iPad now costs in excess of 500€, and I only need something to watch video and browse the web, why wouldn‘t I go for a cheaper Android tablet instead?
It‘ll be interesting to see what their performance in Europe will be. I think they‘re still great devices, but unless you‘re getting a deal, the value is hard to find these days.
It’s hard to say right now if Apple has hit a tipping point. We see tons of complaints and “I’m leaving Apple” posts online after every product refresh, yet Apple seems largely unaffected. Either it’s a tiny population leaving or it’s just talk and they continue buying Apple. Not sure that this time is any different. Maybe there are more complaints this time, maybe not, but ultimately we’ll only really know if this time is different if and when Apple reports low sales and/or has to lower prices etc.
Regarding leaving the ecosystem, I’m partially out of the ecosystem and personally I think it’s pretty ugly out there. But that’s not Apple’s fault. Other companies simply need to step it up. I’m baffled that no other company can figure out an ecosystem to really compete with Apple’s.
Regarding leaving the ecosystem, I’m partially out of the ecosystem and personally I think it’s pretty ugly out there. But that’s not Apple’s fault. Other companies simply need to step it up. I’m baffled that no other company can figure out an ecosystem to really compete with Apple’s.
As far as ecosystem goes, I’m not married to it. My hardware is all over the place. I got a PC, a MacBook Pro, an iPad, iPhone, a pair of Creative Outlier Pro earbuds, an Apple Watch. I’m not compelled to buy into the ecosystem more than my wallet allows me to.
The synergy like Airdrop between my devices is nice, but I can find ways to make things work.
The synergy like Airdrop between my devices is nice, but I can find ways to make things work.
To be honest I am starting to feel the same. It is too expensive when compared to other products that are just as good if not better when you take the ecosystem out of the equation.
Exactly. I left iPhone 2 years ago and never looked back since. I feel like the entire talk of the benefits of being in one ecosystem is a bit overblown. I now use an Android phone, but still have my iPad and MacBook. There are so many cross-platform apps that you can use for a seamless experience between all of these devices that being in one ecosystem is no longer a precondition to be satisfied with your tech.
From my personal experience - the switch from an iPhone to a Galaxy Note two years ago was a breeze and I think Samsung's current interpretation of Android really great. Over the last two years, the phone was very stable, the entire operation of the OS is very logical and in many ways even similar to iOS, no bugs whatsoever - I was pretty impressed as my last experience with Android in 2012-13 war downright terrible. Having said that, possibly it would be good for you to first take a look at it live to make sure the thing is for you.
I guess coming from the 2018 iPP to the 9th gen iPad would feel like a terrible downgrade, even if the latter was faster due to the processor lol
Tbh, Google is growing their ecosystem now with the Watch and the Tablet, and the Pixel is in its 7th generation... So not sure what your argument is about. Also, Samsung gives 4 or 5 years of updates now, so it is even better than Google Pixels.
Considering that the iPhone 14 Pro is still sold out for the next few weeks, I think there are enough people willing to pay that premium... Which is also a bit of a shame considering that for example Google did not raise the prices of the latest Pixels at all.
And yet, here you are complaining to the OP for doing exactly that; sharing their opinion and airing their frustration.