All iPads Has Apple finally done it this year?

[jerryk]

After the iPad ‘updates’, price bumps and what seems to be a deliberate manipulation by Apple to push people to more expensive devices (again) by gimping and purposely making thing less user friendly - I just feel like the value is diminishing rapidly.

Stuck between feeling like I’ve either paid too much for something, or I bought something that’s not quite what I wanted.

Most things work well in the eco system, and I’ve been an Apple for over 15 years. However - I really feels like they’re taking the absolute piss out of their customer base, now that they make more profit than ever before, have billions upon billions in the bank, and hardly any competition it seems.

So, how tricky would it be to leave the eco system behind and replace products and services while keeping maximum usability?

Some obvious ones would be switching to Google, who do phones, smartwatches and soon a new tablet - but for example replacing my MacBook Air m2…a surface pro? A Chromebook? An XPS?

YouTube Music, Spotify, Google Drive, Dropbox, HomePods, Google Nest Audio…

Apples makes a boatload of revenue on their relatively new servies business. Wouldn’t it be smarter to keep the pricing of their hardware somewhat in check and that way have more users to sell their services to?

From what I’ve seen in the past few years - this recent update has had 100% negative comments across a lot of Apple specific forums and some how it feels like the number of people who feel the same has reached a tipping point, where Apple might have actually found the upper limit of how much the general public is willing to pay for their products.

As some who "came back" to an Apple phone recently here are my opinions.

The iPhone is good, but really no better than a top end Android phone. I have a 14 Pro Max and compare to S22+ there is not a huge amount of difference in features. The UI is different, but one can easily adapt. But, there is one area where Android are leading and that is form factors. The Samsung fold is quite interesting to use and does work as both a tablet and phone. Still the crease in the screen may bother some obsessive types.

I think the Macbooks are superior in several ways than other most Windows laptops like the Dell XPS or Insperion series and Lenovos. But at the end of the day it comes down to OS. Windows or Mac OS, you decide.

Desktop-wise it depends what you do. I am a developer and working on a Mac is easier than Windows simply because I use a lot of shell scripts for Linux systems and Macs have a real shell. Windows has a shell option, but small things like backslashes for folder delimiters make it hard to move scripts back and forth. However, if you work for a company that uses MS Office, I find the products better on a PC.

You mention a lot of Google products. I use a number on those on both platforms and they work equally well.

 

[ArkSingularity]

As some who "came back" to an Apple phone recently here are my opinions.

The iPhone is good, but really no better than a top end Android phone. I have a 14 Pro Max and compare to S22+ there is not a huge amount of difference in features. The UI is different, but one can easily adapt. But, there is one area where Android are leading and that is form factors. The Samsung fold is quite interesting to use and does work as both a tablet and phone. Still the crease in the screen may bother some obsessive types.

I think the Macbooks are superior in several ways than other most Windows laptops like the Dell XPS or Insperion series and Lenovos. But at the end of the day it comes down to OS. Windows or Mac OS, you decide.

Desktop-wise it depends what you do. I am a developer and working on a Mac is easier than Windows simply because I use a lot of shell scripts for Linux systems and Macs have a real shell. Windows has a shell option, but small things like backslashes for folder delimiters make it hard to move scripts back and forth. However, if you work for a company that uses MS Office, I find the products better on a PC.

You mention a lot of Google products. I use a number on those on both platforms and they work equally well.

I actually very much like the Samsung lineup these days. Frankly I think they make excellent products, but my general distrust of Google has kept me away. Their terrible privacy record is pretty much the number one reason I’m in the Apple ecosystem (combined with the excellent cloud and cross platform integration that Apple provides).

 

[trip1ex]

someone complaining about apple after a product release. haven't seen that before on MR.

 

[orl2222]

Yes the 10th gen is more expensive, it will drop down in price. Is it a big improvement? Maybe not earth shattering. I have a 7th gen that works fine, which now see duties as a display for my NAD node 2i (stereo streamer, hi res player hooked up to my stereo system, so I can see the album art work at a distance) I do have a 2021 iPad Pro 12.9. Would I buy the 10th gen? Yes, because I don't need to use a pen, I don't need a keyboard, Pro has one. It would be mainly for reading, and media consumption. The mini is too small for these old 62 year old eyes. If you you are doing productivity work, the air would probably fit your needs better.

 

[cbaca51]

I think this is just an overreaction to a weird time for every company

Apple isn’t suddenly a trash company after 1 year of disappointing products

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Homepod was initially not a success so they had to change the product to meet a more accessible price.

But in the long term, over 1-3 years, Apple can easily change product strategy and come back and wow us again. That happened with the M1 MacBooks Pro among other products.

Any business will perpetually try to increase prices and keep or lower product value to increase profits if consumers don’t object and keep buying.

But the tides will turn once when the price/value doesn’t add up and even general, non-“techie” consumers don't feel the need to upgrade and stop buying.

 

[arkitect]

I think this is just an overreaction to a weird time for every company

Apple isn’t suddenly a trash company after 1 year of disappointing products

True.
I also don't think Apple are trash, but I hope they tighten up their act.

Complacency is a killer.

 

[Hicksmat1976]

for the first time in a long time I can't justify buying anything from Apple. I'm just making do with what I have already. Fortunately I have several MacBooks from work as part of my role, M1 Pro/Intel, and personally speaking I'm keeping my 12 Pro iPhone and iPad Air 2 (2014) as they work for me as much as I need. I did have an older Apple Watch but the MiBand 6 I have does what I need it to. There's just not a compelling reason to get their new products, especially at the current prices due to current economic conditions around the world. I did want a new iPad, and the 10 is very underwhelming as a release so I either stick with my Air 2 from 2014 as long as it will last, or get a an Apple refurb which seem better value currently.

 

[Fruit Stand]

It’s a year where I was upgrading the Apple Watch, iPhone and iPad and I haven’t bought a single ‘current’ 2022 device because I don’t think they offer enough value to command the higher price. I’ve decided to go a fourth year with my Apple Watch S5, bought a 13 Pro Max because it was a hell of a lot cheaper and bought my daughter a £299 iPad 9th gen after yesterdays shock £500 entry level offering. Apple have ended up with much less of my money than planned which is a positive from my point of view.

If I managed to ride out my Series 0 SS till this year you can ride out your Watch for a little longer!

 

[playtech1]

There have been some good things this year: the redesigned M2 Air is decent (albeit expensive) and the Mac Studio fills an important gap in the range. Apple Watch Ultra seems cool if a bit niche.

It's the 2022 updates to iPad and iPhone that have suffered it seems. Little advancement in features with some chunky (UK/EU) price increases.

 

[usagora]

OP is correct and so are you. The nickel and diming / penny pinching is an incredibly cheap tactic. You’re right, it has been brewing for a while and this week's releases and stories have sort of lit a match. Read any forum anywhere and it’s overwhelming how this sentiment persists. I don’t know where it goes from here but the worlds first trillion dollar company shouldn’t be acting like this. Convoluted product lineup, nickel and dime tactics, cheap strategies that a first year business student can see through.

I got into Apple relatively late, 2014-ish. The ecosystem amazed me, all the devices so easily connected! My kids iPads thoroughly safe and private, all my media content etc. I haven’t purchased a new Apple product since this iPad Pro I’m using in 2020. each year I’ve seen it get worse. I hope my devices last a decade because the value just isn’t there anymore. If I bought an M1 iPad last year, now the rumor is that some lightweight macOS won’t run in it?? Utter trash.

As long as people continue to buy Apple products at the prices they set, why on earth would Apple make them cheaper? That would be a stupid business move. These are luxury products, not some life necessity that you're being forced to buy. Trust me, if Apple sees a sharp decline in sales and determines the cause is pricing, they will find a way to make adjustments. They're not stupid. That's precisely why they're a multi-trillion dollar business.

I personally think most of Apples products are worth it to me (were I in the market for a new one right now, which I'm not), and I promise you I'm not alone. I bet even many of the people who complain on this forum still end up going out and buying the products they're complaining about. And it's really not that hard to plan ahead and set aside a little bit of savings each month towards a future purchase if you anticipate replacing any of your current Apple devices. And, again, no one is forced to buy them at new prices. Look for good deals on used or certified refurbished ones.

 

[LionTeeth]

As long as people continue to buy Apple products at the prices they set, why on earth would Apple make them cheaper? That would be a stupid business move. These are luxury products, not some life necessity that you're being forced to buy. Trust me, if Apple sees a sharp decline in sales and determines the cause is pricing, they will find a way to make adjustments. They're not stupid. That's precisely why they're a multi-trillion dollar business.

I personally think most of Apples products are worth it to me (were I in the market for a new one right now, which I'm not), and I promise you I'm not alone. I bet even many of the people who complain on this forum still end up going out and buying the products they're complaining about. And it's really not that hard to plan ahead and set aside a little bit of savings each month towards a future purchase if you anticipate replacing any of your current Apple devices. And, again, no one is forced to buy them at new prices. Look for good deals on used or certified refurbished ones.

I think you missed my point, or I didn’t explain it properly. I’m not talking about the actual sticker price of products. What we saw released this week was a confusing jumbled mess, and they are pinching Pennie’s and nickel and dimeing everyone as if they’re about to go bankrupt, they’re doing what a company on the verge of ruin does, not acting like what they are: a luxury brand who makes trillions. It’s ridiculous.

No charging cords, breaking out the wifi and Ethernet models of Apple TV, the mess of an iPad lineup. And the holding back features to try and get people to buy new. It’s all incredibly damaging optics wise, I don’t even know what the prices are, that isn’t my concern.

 

[Bodhitree]

Well, by making cheaper products you expand your market. Sometimes you make more profit by selling a million units at one dollar than five at ten thousand dollars. That’s basic economics, supply and demand.

Personally though I enjoy the ecosystem, there are few things I would really miss with a move to the Google/Android/Windows multiplex, and for me these last few updates are making me think seriously about going the other way with my next purchase. The iPhone and the iPad now both cost more than I want to pay, and I can get good quality Google or Samsung replacements which offer the features I want for a lower cost.

The few things I can‘t do without — WhatsApp, GMail and a few others — are already cross-platform. The one thing that would annoy me is having to pay for a password manager, I’ve come to rely on Apple’s Keychain which is good and free in the Apple ecosystem.

 

[usagora]

I think you missed my point, or I didn’t explain it properly. I’m not talking about the actual sticker price of products. What we saw released this week was a confusing jumbled mess, and they are pinching Pennie’s and nickel and dimeing everyone as if they’re about to go bankrupt, they’re doing what a company on the verge of ruin does, not acting like what they are: a luxury brand who makes trillions. It’s ridiculous.

No charging cords, breaking out the wifi and Ethernet models of Apple TV, the mess of an iPad lineup. And the holding back features to try and get people to buy new. It’s all incredibly damaging optics wise, I don’t even know what the prices are, that isn’t my concern.

We're definitely operating on totally different wavelengths. You seem very emotional about Apple's product design decisions. I feel absolutely zero emotion at all. This is why I said earlier in this thread that Apple is a business, not your lover. I personally don't see their lineup as a "mess" at all and never have (this isn't the first time this accusation has been bandied about through the years). I've literally never been confused when going to purchase an Apple product.

As for "nickel and diming" people, I really don't see that. So, as you alluded to, some of their products no longer include a charging cable. Big deal. They tell you that up front, and in the event that you don't happen to already have 20 of them lying around, you can purchase one from them or any other retailer. And it most definitely has a positive impact on the environment in addition to saving Apple money, so that's a good thing. But they are under no obligation to offer you a free one any more than they need to offer you a free case/sleeve, screen protector, etc. Would that be nice if they did? Sure. Am I going to call them "ridiculous" or any other pejorative term for not doing so? Absolutely not. How entitled we have become here!

I believe you meant holding back features to get people to upgrade (not "buy new"--as a used product would have the same features as a new one, obviously). Again, this is a common "tactic" among many companies both with hardware and software. And it's a very successful one, so why on earth would they not do it?

 

[The_Interloper]

The one thing that would annoy me is having to pay for a password manager, I’ve come to rely on Apple’s Keychain which is good and free in the Apple ecosystem.

I use Bitwarden. Free, open-source and cross-platform.

 

[LionTeeth]

We're definitely operating on totally different wavelengths. You seem very emotional about Apple's product design decisions. I feel absolutely zero emotion at all. This is why I said earlier in this thread that Apple is a business, not your lover. I personally don't see their lineup as a "mess" at all and never have (this isn't the first time this accusation has been bandied about through the years). I've literally never been confused when going to purchase an Apple product.

As for "nickel and diming" people, I really don't see that. So, as you alluded to, some of their products no longer include a charging cable. Big deal. They tell you that up front, and in the event that you don't happen to already have 20 of them lying around, you can purchase one from them or any other retailer. And it most definitely has a positive impact on the environment in addition to saving Apple money, so that's a good thing. But they are under no obligation to offer you a free one any more than they need to offer you a free case/sleeve, screen protector, etc. Would that be nice if they did? Sure. Am I going to call them "ridiculous" or any other pejorative term for not doing so? Absolutely not. How entitled we have become here!

I believe you meant holding back features to get people to upgrade (not "buy new"--as a used product would have the same features as a new one, obviously). Again, this is a common "tactic" among many companies both with hardware and software. And it's a very successful one, so why on earth would they not do it?

Why? Because they can afford to. The consumer despises that tactic, it’s good business sense to not pull that move.

And I’m not sure why you’re being so snippy, this is a discussion, I didn’t think any of us were that upset. But apparently you are, so have a great day, take a walk, don’t let others opinions get to you so much.

 

[usagora]

Why? Because they can afford to. The consumer despises that tactic, it’s good business sense to not pull that move.

And I’m not sure why you’re being so snippy, this is a discussion, I didn’t think any of us were that upset. But apparently you are, so have a great day, take a walk, don’t let others opinions get to you so much.

Um, Apple could "afford" to slip in a $100 bill with every purchase you make and send your family to Disney World for 2 weeks, yet it wouldn't make much business sense to do that. Just because they can afford to do something doesn't mean they should do it. Apple seems to be doing just fine without following your advice, so I guess they must know more than you do about how to run their business. They are looking to maximize their profits and seem to be doing a pretty good job at that. Good for them. They are successful. Again, if people stop buying their products, they will adjust.

There was absolutely nothing snippy in my previous comment--seems like you're just sore that someone's challenging your opinion. We ARE discussing things, but it sounds like you're refusing to now ("have a great day"). Sort of ironic that you tell me not to let others opinions get to me, when obviously mine has gotten to you 🤷🏼‍♂️ All I was doing was rationally replying to your points.

 

[Siliconguy]

In terms of leaving the ecosystem, I feel you are taking an all-or-nothing approach. You don’t have to be tied to only one company and it’s healthy to try other products.

True. Picking and choosing is perfectly fine. I do not have an iPhone because they cost too much when I only need to make calls and receive an occasional text, and a $50 flip phone does that perfectly well. I Just bought a ninth generation iPad because the new 10th generation costs too much and does nothing I need beyond what the ninth generation can do, and the new one also lacks a headphone port.

My desktop is a Linux box because until the Studio came out Apple's desktops were I/O port poor. The linux box has six things plugged into the USB ports, plus internal DVD and backup hard drives and can take a second NVME drive as well. And the memory is upgradable too. Apple chooses to not play in that market. Fine, I'll give my money to someone else, ASUS, AMD, and Crucial to be specific.

If you need portability I do think Apple has the best products available. Their desktops however are not the best options available. And their desktops will be abandoned long before the hardware actually expires. See 2012 Mac Pro, left sitting at High Sierra due to lack of a Metal driver for the standard video card, and no upgrade video cards available.

 

[Username-already-in-use]

From what I’ve seen in the past few years - this recent update has had 100% negative comments across a lot of Apple specific forums and some how it feels like the number of people who feel the same has reached a tipping point

The online Apple tech-space and content-creator community is full of dripping hyperbole, drama and catastrophising (and this is what I see after nearly every update cycle). But Apple keep on selling Macs, iPhones, Watches and iPads.

I grin and laugh when I take the M2 iPad Pro’s ”not enough of a spec bump” drama of 2022 and compare it with the M1 iPad Pro’s “this is too much of a spec bump, iPads don’t need an M1” spicy drama of May 2021.

 

[rui no onna]

I grin and laugh when I take the M2 iPad Pro’s ”not enough of a spec bump” drama of 2022 and compare it with the M1 iPad Pro’s “this is too much of a spec bump, iPads don’t need an M1” spicy drama of May 2021.

I never really got that argument. Based on A12 -> A14, the move from A12X/Z -> M1 is right in line with how A12X/Z -> A14X performance would've been.

Was Apple supposed to have let chipset performance remain stagnant at the 2018 level in 2021 when the A14-based iPad Air 4 was already notably faster in single-core and was only slightly slower in multi-core?

 

[MacDevil7334]

As for "nickel and diming" people, I really don't see that. So, as you alluded to, some of their products no longer include a charging cable. Big deal. They tell you that up front, and in the event that you don't happen to already have 20 of them lying around, you can purchase one from them or any other retailer. And it most definitely has a positive impact on the environment in addition to saving Apple money, so that's a good thing. But they are under no obligation to offer you a free one any more than they need to offer you a free case/sleeve, screen protector, etc. Would that be nice if they did? Sure. Am I going to call them "ridiculous" or any other pejorative term for not doing so? Absolutely not. How entitled we have become here!

A charging cable and a screen protector are not remotely the same though. A charging cable is something you need to make the product work. Apple is basically saying you have to pay extra to use the product for longer than a single battery cycle if you don't have a charging cable of the correct type laying around. A case or screen protector is different since they are not required for the product to be fully functional. Rather, they offer extra protection. I would not expect Apple to give me for free something that offers additional features beyond the core product (i.e. drop or scratch resistance). But something that is required for the basic functionality of the product (i.e. charging it)? Yeah, that should be included and I don't think it is being "entitled" to hold that view.

You are correct that there is a positive environmental impact for not including the cable and the wall plug. However, that's not Apple's motivation for doing this. If Apple was only concerned about the environment, they would offer to let users purchase a cable/plug for a discount when buying a new device. But they charge full price, making it clear this is just about squeezing a few extra $$$ out of consumers. When I picked up my iPhone 14 last month, the Apple employee tried to sell me a 20 W power brick with it 3 times during our interaction even though I told him I had plenty at home. That's not concern for the environment. That's trying to charge me for something that had previously been included.

As an aside, I have been an Apple customer for almost 30 years (making me feel quite old). In that time, I have never been into an Apple store and had an employee try to push a product on me in that way. There has clearly been a shift in strategy towards trying to squeeze as much money as possible out of customers and it left a very bad taste in my mouth. This is a bad direction for the company and will only erode brand loyalty over time.

 

[usagora]

A charging cable and a screen protector are not remotely the same though. A charging cable is something you need to make the product work. Apple is basically saying you have to pay extra to use the product for longer than a single battery cycle if you don't have a charging cable of the correct type laying around. A case or screen protector is different since they are not required for the product to be fully functional. Rather, they offer extra protection. I would not expect Apple to give me for free something that offers additional features beyond the core product (i.e. drop or scratch resistance). But something that is required for the basic functionality of the product (i.e. charging it)? Yeah, that should be included and I don't think it is being "entitled" to hold that view.

For many people, a case and screen protector are non-negotiables for using their phone, so I think it's actually a very appropriate comparison. And I don't think you're entitled for thinking Apple should include a cable. I think the entitlement rears its head when people get really upset over it not being included and start calling Apple "ridiculous" and saying other nasty things about them just because they don't get their way. "Disappointed" I can see, but not much more than that, not over such a trivial matter.

You are correct that there is a positive environmental impact for not including the cable and the wall plug. However, that's not Apple's motivation for doing this. If Apple was only concerned about the environment, they would offer to let users purchase a cable/plug for a discount when buying a new device. But they charge full price, making it clear this is just about squeezing a few extra $$$ out of consumers. When I picked up my iPhone 14 last month, the Apple employee tried to sell me a 20 W power brick with it 3 times during our interaction even though I told him I had plenty at home. That's not concern for the environment. That's trying to charge me for something that had previously been included.

No, that does not follow. You actually alluded to the answer earlier in that paragraph: "If Apple was only concerned about the environment . . .". Who said that was their "only" concern? I've always said it's BOTH. They not only save money, but also have a positive environmental impact by reducing waste. I'm sorry you encountered an Apple store employee who either has either hearing or comprehension problems, but he is not a spokesman for Apple Inc's initiatives. This is one of the main reasons I always prefer to shop online. Sales people are often very pushy or intrusive, and I'm a very private person who likes to make decisions in the quiet of my own home.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Apple is basically saying you have to pay extra to use the product for longer than a single battery cycle if you don't have a charging cable of the correct type laying around

Manufacturers have been saying that for decades unless you can point to a single one who gives unlimited supplies of AA batteries with their remote controls.

 

[turbineseaplane]

When I picked up my iPhone 14 last month, the Apple employee tried to sell me a 20 W power brick with it 3 times during our interaction even though I told him I had plenty at home. That's not concern for the environment. That's trying to charge me for something that had previously been included.

Such a junk experience in the Apple Stores nowadays
I avoid them basically at all costs now

 

[usagora]

Manufacturers have been saying that for decades unless you can point to a single one who gives unlimited supplies of AA batteries with their remote controls.

And of course some electronics don't include batteries at all.