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So that's why this forum has turned into a "how can I upgrade/resuscitate this MacPro" forum. Because people rarely update? Right? Basically, the forum you are posting on proves your point wrong. Which makes me wonder if you're paying attention. Look around you. Stop with the ad hoc regurgitated lines.

I should of specified the actual Pro users who actually make a primary living on their workstation. Not the hackers, crackers and always broke professionals on MacRumors. I'm talking about how the majority of pro users who upgrade on a regular basis or BTO purchase until its time for a new one.
 
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I should of specified the actual Pro users who actually make a primary living on their workstation. Not the hackers, crackers and always broke professionals on MacRumors. I'm talking about how the majority of pro users who upgrade on a regular basis or BTO purchase until its time for a new one.
The companies I've worked for refresh hardware every 36 months. Sooner if an update increases productivity.
 
I should of specified the actual Pro users who actually make a primary living on their workstation. Not the hackers, crackers and always broke professionals on MacRumors.

I think that it would be better for everybody if you could be more careful when you 're reffering to other people...
I'm afraid that this was not so kind: "Not the hackers, crackers and always broke professionals on MacRumors."

Anyway this is not a subject for this thread, would you please start your own thread with the subject you wish?
 
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I should of specified the actual Pro users who actually make a primary living on their workstation. Not the hackers, crackers and always broke professionals on MacRumors. I'm talking about how the majority of pro users who upgrade on a regular basis or BTO purchase until its time for a new one.
One hobbyist slamming a bunch of other hobbyists in the name of defending some corporate entity with platitudes. Ain't that rich.
 
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I think that it would be better for everybody if you could be more careful when you 're reffering to other people...
I'm afraid that this was not so kind: "Not the hackers, crackers and always broke professionals on MacRumors."

Anyway this is not a subject for this thread, would you please start your own thread with the subject you wish?
One hobbyist slamming a bunch of other hobbyists in the name of defending some corporate entity with platitudes. Ain't that rich.

Yes, I've been a hacker and a pro, but I keep it in perspective in relation to actual use. Hobbyist is not the same thing as pro.
 
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The companies I've worked for refresh hardware every 36 months. Sooner if an update increases productivity.
what you said, for medium to large companies, with 15 or 30 or 100 workstations, a popular way to purchase them is with a lease. the common lease term is 3 years. leases are good for tax purposes and at the end, just send everything back to the leasing company and start with a whole new set of computers. anytime you see a seller on eBay with several of the exact same machine, those are off-lease computers.

So for Apple, they have at most, 4 more months, to get another box out, so there is something to replace that first wave of machines coming off-lease. a lease can usually be extended for a year but beyond that, I'm sure no one wants to start a brand new lease to pay the same price for the exact same machine they got 3 years prior.

a smaller company will usually buy a new box when they need it and keep it as long as they can squeeze value out of it. a graphics workstation becomes an edit machine becomes an accounting machine becomes gifts for the bosses nieces and nephews.
 
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So for Apple, they have at most, 4 more months, to get another box out, so there is something to replace that first wave of machines coming off-lease. a lease can usually be extended for a year but beyond that, I'm sure no one wants to start a brand new lease to pay the same price for the exact same machine they got 3 years prior.

4 more months? Apple didn't really start shipping the nMP in any sort of volume until around May of 2014. I'd be very surprised to find any companies on 3 year leases of a significant number of nMPs who were coming up on the end of the lease this year.
 
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I wonder if Apple has made the calculation that it is better to take an ever higher profit margin on ever decreasing sales than to keep it updated to sell a few more but take a lower margin.

Yes, that would be one factor.

Not the main factor.

From a business standpoint, there are much higher profitable priorities.

Eventually, the MP will remain part of the overall strategies, with the centerpiece being elsewhere.

Possibly services, wearables or something that has yet to be announced.

http://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2016/6/22/wwdc-clues-hint-at-apples-post-iphone-era?rq=Mac as hub

 
Their obsession with sleeker and thinner is going to cost them sooner or later. There comes a point where sleeker is going to cost too much functionality.
also worth considering regarding thinner designs is the components are shrinking.. ram, drives, chips, etc..
this type of stuff is an important driving force behind thinness.

computers (well, most technology in general) used to be shaped the way they were because their housing was the shape of the technology.. for example, a tv used to be 20" deep and sit on the floor because of the tube.. crt monitors (or original iMacs) were shaped that way because of the tube..

once the underlying technology becomes more manageable in size, a designer can then begin to make decisions based on functionality, usability, and aesthetics (or 'sleekness') while being less limited due to component size or shape restrictions.

we see this repeat with just about everything though we might not always realize it.. but the mac pro is a very good example of a phase change in the evolution of a technology.

within most of our lifetimes, the idea of a 60lb chunk of personal computer is going to be basically laughable.. i believe most people here would agree with that or realize it's going to happen.. but at the same time, some people seem surprised or even mad that computers are shrinking..
changes like this are gradual.. we're experiencing them right now.. today.. and it's unstoppable.

roll with it.. or don't.. at least not yet.. wait for the next train..
regardless, you'll be using much smaller computers at some point in the not too distant future.
 
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4 more months? Apple didn't really start shipping the nMP in any sort of volume until around May of 2014. ....

Not sure if original post tried to weave this in, but it would very sensible to sign up for a new lease (if that involves new equipment) before the old lease expire. There is probably a migration of at least some minimal data even if have fully networked home directories. Without network home directories and GBs of local files..... migrating 5-6 machines is not something do overnight. The folks sheparding the migrations probably have "full time" day jobs too.

Migration is even bigger if lease is up in Jan-Feb 2017 and need to switch over to Windows. That isn't an overnight job either..... which means also need migration transition time.

When the lease is over the machines should have been packed up in box ready to ship out..... (dpending upon how leinent the terms... might need to arrive back by deadline. So in the box and gone well before the deadline.). You should not working on them until a couple hours before the lease expires.
 
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within most of our lifetimes, the idea of a 60lb chunk of personal computer is going to be basically laughable.. i believe most people here would agree with that or realize it's going to happen..

I agree with that.

Cloud computing also agrees with that.

Although, I do have and will have multiple devices that cumulatively may be over 60lb in weight.

A computer shaped in the size/weight of a transportation device (car) would easily exceed that weight.

 
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4 more months? Apple didn't really start shipping the nMP in any sort of volume until around May of 2014. I'd be very surprised to find any companies on 3 year leases of a significant number of nMPs who were coming up on the end of the lease this year.

Not sure if original post tried to weave this in, but it would very sensible to sign up for a new lease (if that involves new equipment) before the old lease expire. There is probably a migration of at least some minimal data even if have fully networked home directories. Without network home directories and GBs of local files..... migrating 5-6 machines is not something do overnight. The folks sheparding the migrations probably have "full time" day jobs too.

Migration is even bigger if lease is up in Jan-Feb 2017 and need to switch over to Windows. That isn't an overnight job either..... which means also need migration transition time.

When the lease is over the machines should have been packed up in box ready to ship out..... (dpending upon how leinent the terms... might need to arrive back by deadline). You should not working on them until a couple hours before the lease expires.

everything deconstruct60 said. I thought about that clarification after I posted but figured I had made my point. the plans on a new 3 year lease and the change-over take time.
 
One hobbyist slamming a bunch of other hobbyists in the name of defending some corporate entity with platitudes. Ain't that rich.

If going to try to leverage the host of threads about folks with a sub $900 budget trying to get into a Mac Pro as exemplary of the community you can't then turn around and claim that "broke" isn't one of the factors. [ Perhaps folks spend all of their money on other things .... but to Apple pragmatically there isn't much of a difference between folks who yelp about how $1,000 is too much for a Mac Pro and broke. ]

The number of folks pushing "upgrade" / "saving" their ' listed on Apple's vintage and obsolete list' system is a factor in the slow down of Mac Pro upgrades.
 
everything deconstruct60 said. I thought about that clarification after I posted but figured I had made my point. the plans on a new 3 year lease and the change-over take time.

Fair enough, but the only people for whom the clock started ticking on the nMP in 2013 are people who don't own nMP's. Most owners of the nMP started taking delivery at Q2 2014 at the soonest (delays in shipping widely reported). I know that it makes for a great narrative about 900 days, etc., but most nMP owners are only clocking in about 2 years into their ownership.
 
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Fair enough, but the only people for whom the clock started ticking on the nMP in 2013 are people who don't own nMP's. Most owners of the nMP started taking delivery at Q2 2014 at the soonest (delays in shipping widely reported)....

There are leases on 2012 MPs also that will be coming due over next 4-6 months. (e.g.,, folks who jumped into the old platform and decided to wait 2-3 years to see if this new form factor actually worked or not). It isn't just MP 2013 users only that are potential candidates to lease a refreshed MP.

Apple tossed the 2009 MPs onto the vintage/obsolete list this year. That will move some non-lease folks into migration action too.

Apple doing nothing at this point is probably loosing them customers every month at this point. Probably not a bad of a bleed in 2013 when had to totally withdraw the Mac Pro from the EU markets, but sagging none-the-less.

Ideally Apple would have something out well before these two major events occured so that folks could assess the reviews and/or track record of the upgraded machines and make a decision to pick up a new lease. It is a bit risky to jump into a 3 year lease on a machine really haven't had time to do a detailed evaluation on.
 
The number of folks pushing "upgrade" / "saving" their ' listed on Apple's vintage and obsolete list' system is a factor in the slow down of Mac Pro upgrades.

That is highly unlikely. Windows supports Xeon workstations longer than does OS X, yet HP still upgrades their workstations to the latest available processors and chipsets. And there are far more tinkerers on Windows machines than on Macs.

In my experience many of those who buy used cMPs to upgrade do so because Apple doesn't offer a headless iMac. It's not as if these cMP users would run out and buy $5,000 Tubes if they couldn't get used cMPs. But an i7 desktop Mac that can take a desktop video card? They would camp out overnight at Apple stores across the country for such Mac. I'd be right there with them. Hell I'd do it for an iMac that featured a desktop GPU in an adequately cooled thicker case.

I recently sold a Core 2 Duo iMac on ebay and was surprised by how much demand remains for them. The guy who bought it told me he collects them, that he would rather have a C2D iMac in every room of his house than only one or two new iMacs. So all these people want old iMacs, yet Apple were still motivated to offer a Skylake iMac. And why not? Lots of interest in used iMacs is an indicator of it's popularity, not a sign that people only buy used iMacs.
 
also worth considering regarding thinner designs is the components are shrinking.. ram, drives, chips, etc..
this type of stuff is an important driving force behind thinness.

computers (well, most technology in general) used to be shaped the way they were because their housing was the shape of the technology.. for example, a tv used to be 20" deep and sit on the floor because of the tube.. crt monitors (or original iMacs) were shaped that way because of the tube..

once the underlying technology becomes more manageable in size, a designer can then begin to make decisions based on functionality, usability, and aesthetics (or 'sleekness') while being less limited due to component size or shape restrictions.
Nothing wrong with smaller, sleeker designs...all else being equal. When it comes to the nMP all else is not equal. Apple removed capability in order to make it smaller and sleeker. If the nMP offered the same capability as the previous generation I doubt there would be so much opposition to it.

IOW it's not the smaller, sleeker design people object to. It's the removal of capability to achieve smaller, sleeker design that is the objection.
 
It's just super expensive compared to the dell workstations I linked before.
Not super expensive compared to other tools necessary to doing business e.g. a car costs many times the price of even a well hung Mac Pro. The high resale of a used Mac Pro means that the actual cost over 3 years is further reduced & leaving may make more sense financially.
 
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That is highly unlikely. Windows supports Xeon workstations longer than does OS X, yet HP still upgrades their workstations to the latest available processors and chipsets. And there are far more tinkerers on Windows machines than on Macs.

In my experience many of those who buy used cMPs to upgrade do so because Apple doesn't offer a headless iMac. It's not as if these cMP users would run out and buy $5,000 Tubes if they couldn't get used cMPs. But an i7 desktop Mac that can take a desktop video card? They would camp out overnight at Apple stores across the country for such Mac. I'd be right there with them. Hell I'd do it for an iMac that featured a desktop GPU in an adequately cooled thicker case.

I recently sold a Core 2 Duo iMac on ebay and was surprised by how much demand remains for them. The guy who bought it told me he collects them, that he would rather have a C2D iMac in every room of his house than only one or two new iMacs. So all these people want old iMacs, yet Apple were still motivated to offer a Skylake iMac. And why not? Lots of interest in used iMacs is an indicator of it's popularity, not a sign that people only buy used iMacs.

But looking at the many threads on MacRumors its unlikely the ones trying to upgrade to Bluetooth 4.0 just to get Continuity/Handoff or macOS Sierra on a 1,1 / 1,2 Mac Pro are not likely waiting till the 7,1 nMP to come out till purchase. They are looking for a low cost of entry into the Mac world. Its not likely a new system is what they are looking to buy.
 
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Not super expensive compared to other tools necessary to doing business e.g. a car costs many times the price of even a well hung Mac Pro. The high resale of a used Mac Pro means that the actual cost over 3 years is further reduced & leaving may make more sense financially.

My plotter is more expensive than my Mac Pro
 
Not super expensive compared to other tools necessary to doing business e.g. a car costs many times the price of even a well hung Mac Pro. The high resale of a used Mac Pro means that the actual cost over 3 years is further reduced & leaving may make more sense financially.
heh, right.
for example, I'm in the process of buying a new CNC machine this summer.. it's about 11x the cost of a 12core Mac Pro.. rent on my shop is like buying a Mac Pro every month.
the computers are the cheap part of the business equation.
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Nothing wrong with smaller, sleeker designs...all else being equal. When it comes to the nMP all else is not equal. Apple removed capability in order to make it smaller and sleeker. If the nMP offered the same capability as the previous generation I doubt there would be so much opposition to it.

IOW it's not the smaller, sleeker design people object to. It's the removal of capability to achieve smaller, sleeker design that is the objection.
depends on what you mean by capability. if you mean you can no longer insert and remove 4 hard drives then yes, the capability is no longer there.. so if your job is to put drives in&rout of computers all day then yes, you've been screwed over..
but I think most people view capability as what you can accomplish, content wise, on a computer... in which case, capability has either improved or side stepped.
there are, I imagine, very very few examples of 'I used to be able to do ____ on a Mac but can't anymore'.... probably no examples of that of any note.
 
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