Has Apple lost their mind? March 8th Event Disappointment

[mi7chy]

it supports the point perfectly.

It doesn't support anything. NVMe storage is fast and consistent. External storage is bottlenecked by single 10Gb ethernet (2nd NIC dedicated to storage traffic preferred) or inconsistent Thunderbolt.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ally-10gb-s-also-definitely-not-usb4.2269777/

 

[thettareddast]

It doesn't support anything. NVMe storage is fast and consistent. External storage is bottlenecked by single 10Gb ethernet (2nd NIC dedicated to storage traffic preferred) or inconsistent Thunderbolt.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ally-10gb-s-also-definitely-not-usb4.2269777/

It supports the point that 40Tb onboard storage is not a practical demand in the real world. Only for specnerds wondering why they cant get a $2000 computer with 4x8tb drives because 10Gbit bus is insufficient for archiving their bootleg movie rips.

 

[bobcomer]

Only for specnerds wondering why they cant get a $2000 computer with 4x8tb drives because 10Gbit bus is insufficient for archiving their bootleg movie rips.

I have over 40TB total among a Synology NAS (with spinny drives, 5x6TB), a 10T standalone drive, and various smaller USB SSD's. And I have no bootleg movie rips at all, but I have a decent lib of purchased movies and anime. Most of my storage is redundant backups... I really hate losing anything.

 

[mi7chy]

It supports the point that 40Tb onboard storage is not a practical demand in the real world. Only for specnerds wondering why they cant get a $2000 computer with 4x8tb drives because 10Gbit bus is insufficient for archiving their bootleg movie rips.

You're still missing the point. Besides capacity there's also throughput bottleneck. Would you rather move around 8TB of data over 64Gb/s NVMe or 10Gb/s ethernet? Minutes vs hours?

 

[thettareddast]

You're still missing the point. Besides capacity there's also throughput bottleneck. Would you rather move around 8TB of data over 64Gb/s NVMe or 10Gb/s ethernet? Minutes vs hours?

You missed the fact that you even contradicted yourself: you brought up the risk of soldered storage failure - which is another strike against onboard storage.

People dont move 8TB of data with the regularity and urgency that demands a 64Gb/s pipeline. Thats why other manufacturers arent offering the solution. This is the point.

Would you rather have a 6400hp drivetrain powering a Tesla or a 1000hp one? The answer is…neither here or there.

 

[mi7chy]

People dont move 8TB of data with the regularity and urgency that demands a 64Gb/s pipeline. Thats why other manufacturers arent offering the solution. This is the point.

People buy these devices for working with ProRes which uses about 1TB of disk space per forty minutes of recording at 8K30 ProRes RAW HQ. For 8TB drive that's only about 5 hours worth. You still don't get it.

 

[Ethosik]

People buy these devices for working with ProRes which uses about 1TB of disk space per forty minutes of recording at 8K30 ProRes RAW HQ. For 8TB drive that's only about 5 hours worth. You still don't get it.

And those people are more suited for the Mac Pro which has not been updated yet. Those ULTRA professionals that truly need that amount of storage and speed, even a $50,000 Mac Pro Apple Silicon with the PCIe and internal storage upgrade capabilities will be NO SWEAT. They will make that money back no problem.

 

[Appletoni]

People buy these devices for working with ProRes which uses about 1TB of disk space per forty minutes of recording at 8K30 ProRes RAW HQ. For 8TB drive that's only about 5 hours worth. You still don't get it.

People buy these devices for using chess engines and syzygy endgame tablebases. 18 TB.
=Much more people than ProRes people on earth.
They also know how to need 150 TB only for chess.

And the most of them need a MacBook Pro 16-inch or 18-inch or 20-inch, so they are all waiting for the M1 Ultra and M2 Ultra and M3 Ultra inside the MacBook Pro.

 

[thettareddast]

People buy these devices for working with ProRes which uses about 1TB of disk space per forty minutes of recording at 8K30 ProRes RAW HQ. For 8TB drive that's only about 5 hours worth. You still don't get it.

And what are they buying now instead?
Oh, right.
A $2000 desktop doesn't have to solve every n'th percentile use-case in the world. Get a clue.

 

[MayaUser]

Apple announced what's nearly the fastest PC on the market for $4000 and you're mad that it's overpriced? People are so out of touch. If this is overpriced for you, then it's not for you anyway, period.

i think those people dont know how business works

 

[Wokis]

People buy these devices for working with ProRes which uses about 1TB of disk space per forty minutes of recording at 8K30 ProRes RAW HQ. For 8TB drive that's only about 5 hours worth. You still don't get it.

Would be crazy to imagine still that someone working with quantities of high bitrate video wouldn’t have a SAN solution where they store that stuff. Even 8TB would be too little very soon.

Thankfully the Studio delivers where it matters and has 10Gb ethernet as the default. For real time playback this is plenty.

 

[Feek]

Interesting thread, for me, the Mac Studio is massively overpowered for what I need.

But it's time for me to replace an old iMac so the base model Ultra with a 2Tb SSD along with the new monitor will do me nicely, thank you very much.

 

[kc9hzn]

I remember $99 per year or more. I’ll have to give it a look.

I also didn’t see that “ten years” data point. I HAVE read an important caveat about the term length: they will let you pay for this insurance for as long as they have the parts to do “repairs”.

When it comes to devices with monolithic, integrated, and non-repairable boards with SoC ... I wonder how many years this actually goes.

My MacBook Pro 3,1 was under a known manufacturing defect replacement program, but that ended when they stopped having motherboards to offer as replacements. Because the defect was in every single one, and nothing was ever changed at manufacturing level, once they stopped making them, ALL were going to become useless.

It’s probably based on Apple’s existing Supported/Vintage/Obsolete status. Supported devices have full hardware repair support, while vintage devices may have some parts availability issues but Apple will make an effort to have parts available. Obsolete generally means that parts are unavailable or that there’s no guarantee of availability.

 

[kc9hzn]

It would be great if it had a 40 TB SSD option, sure, but is that something that's even commercially available right now with comparable bandwidth to Apple's SSDs?

The closest I can find is the Samsung PM1643 SAS SSD, which is 30.72 TB, costs $8000-$10000 USD, and has a maximum read speed of ~2 TB/s (less than 1/3 of the Studio's 7.5 TB/s). There's also the 3.5" SATA ExaDrive SSDs, which let you buy up to 100 TB for $40k USD (!!!), but are limited to 0.5 TB/s read speeds. Is there anyone on the market offering what you were hoping for?


As cool as it would be, a chip like the Ultra just isn't going to fit within the thermal or power consumption profile of a 0.66" thick laptop. It's like being upset Lenovo isn't offering the top-of-the-like desktop 64-core Threadripper CPUs in its T-series ThinkPads.

Seriously. The M1 Ultra is equivalent to a Xeon class Intel chip, not an i9. Are there any laptops, let alone ultrathin laptops like the MacBook Pro 16”, with Xeon processors available as an option? I really doubt it.

 

[kc9hzn]

People buy these devices for using chess engines and syzygy endgame tablebases. 18 TB.
=Much more people than ProRes people on earth.
They also know how to need 150 TB only for chess.

And the most of them need a MacBook Pro 16-inch or 18-inch or 20-inch, so they are all waiting for the M1 Ultra and M2 Ultra and M3 Ultra inside the MacBook Pro.

I feel like, if you’re doing something that niche, you’re buying a computer designed for that purpose or making your own. You’re not coercing an off the shelf Mac Studio to meet those needs. Apple doesn’t target every single pro workflow, least of all with the Mac Studio. The Mac Studio is more for professionals with the need for high CPU/GPU performance and with minimal upgradability or customization needs (photo editing, medium end render and video editing performance, software compilation, other tasks that are primarily GPU or CPU bound). Other tasks with highly unique needs (such as significantly expanded RAM or high speed storage) would be better suited with a current Mac Pro, an off the shelf or BTO Intel or Linux computer designed for that use case, or a truly custom computer made to the specific specs you need.

(That said, does that 18TB to 150TB really need to be at internal speeds for chess research? It’s not like you’re loading multi TB video files all the time…)

 

[allan.nyholm]

Great analyzes on other people's disposable income in this thread and how they should actually feel about the prices by saying that certain people has lost their mind. Saying Apple has lost their mind is a-ok.
Claiming that individual people has lost their mind is nearing harassment.

I agree however with @NightOne that Apple has set the price tag too darn high. I am a firm believer in that Apple doesn't have any real connection with the "man on the ground" - for a lack of a better term.

Let's say that Apple reduced their prices by half on their whole Mac line up and their peripherals too. Would this dramatically increase their sales? My guess is; yes.

I'm obviously not a great thinker or salesperson. In fact I am very bad at reselling my old devices, but it's all to get them off my hands and into the next person's hands.

Give people a better treatment and you'll in turn see less of snarky comments from me in the future.

 

[bobcomer]

Seriously. The M1 Ultra is equivalent to a Xeon class Intel chip, not an i9. Are there any laptops, let alone ultrathin laptops like the MacBook Pro 16”, with Xeon processors available as an option? I really doubt it.

Yes, there are Lenovo and Dell Xeon based laptop workstations, and probably others. But why are you putting the Ultra in the laptop category, it's not in any laptops, only a desktop so far?

 

[cmaier]

Great analyzes on other people's disposable income in this thread and how they should actually feel about the prices by saying that certain people has lost their mind. Saying Apple has lost their mind is a-ok.
Claiming that individual people has lost their mind is nearing harassment.

I agree however with @NightOne that Apple has set the price tag too darn high. I am a firm believer in that Apple doesn't have any real connection with the "man on the ground" - for a lack of a better term.

Let's say that Apple reduced their prices by half on their whole Mac line up and their peripherals too. Would this dramatically increase their sales? My guess is; yes.

I'm obviously not a great thinker or salesperson. In fact I am very bad at reselling my old devices, but it's all to get them off my hands and into the next person's hands.

Give people a better treatment and you'll in turn see less of snarky comments from me in the future.

And if BMW made Chevy’s they could sell more,too.

But that’s not BMW’s business model, and it’s not Apple’s business model.

 

[Rich2Putt]

Here is an excellent article by "Larry Jorden" if you do video editing.

Configure a New Mac Studio for Video Editing [u] | Larry Jordan

 

[dugbug]

So, what affordable display shall I buy for the Mac mini?

whatever one you want? You could buy the studio display if you wish to have a really good one, but the mac mini has an hdmi output so.... bestbuy has a 24" one for $320. What are you looking for?

 

[Ethosik]

Here is an excellent article by "Larry Jorden" if you do video editing.

Configure a New Mac Studio for Video Editing [u] | Larry Jordan

Larry is awesome! I learned a lot of cool tricks and tips from his courses. Thanks for posting.

 

[allan.nyholm]

And if BMW made Chevy’s they could sell more,too.

But that’s not BMW’s business model, and it’s not Apple’s business model.

Exactly. Great comparison. Thanks.

 

[Appletoni]

Yes, there are Lenovo and Dell Xeon based laptop workstations, and probably others. But why are you putting the Ultra in the laptop category, it's not in any laptops, only a desktop so far?

Why not?
He is putting the Ultra in laptop category because he CAN

Why people always asking:
But why are you putting the M1 in the laptop category?
But why are you putting the M1 Pro in the laptop category?
But why are you putting the M1 Max in the laptop category?
But why are you putting the M1 Ultra in the laptop category
Because they CAN!!!

There are also people on earth which needs the M1 Ultra inside a MacBook Pro, because they work mobile and they are not sitting all the time at home.

 

[bobcomer]

There are also people on earth which needs the M1 Ultra inside a MacBook Pro, because they work mobile and they are not sitting all the time at home.

I actually expect there will be something along that line eventually, but it's going to be just like those Xeon laptops, heavy and noisy, no way around it. I'd personally still want a desktop like a Studio rather than a laptop for something like that.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Why not?
He is putting the Ultra in laptop category because he CAN

Why people always asking:
But why are you putting the M1 in the laptop category?
But why are you putting the M1 Pro in the laptop category?
But why are you putting the M1 Max in the laptop category?
But why are you putting the M1 Ultra in the laptop category
Because they CAN!!!

There are also people on earth which needs the M1 Ultra inside a MacBook Pro, because they work mobile and they are not sitting all the time at home.

Have you seen the size of the cooling system in the Mac Studio?

Do you seriously think that even a reduced version of that is going to fit inside the current MacBook Pro case?

It is entirely irrelevant what random people on the Internet think can or should be done. It's up to Apple engineers to work our what is possible and desirable in an Apple product. Apple is not going to compromise the design by either throttling the performance drastically (to close to M1 Max levels) or by making the MBP twice as thick.

You *might* see an Ultra level SoC in a future MBP when the whole thing has a TDP about the same as the current M1 Max - maybe in two or three generations. Apple is probably pretty close to the design limit already with the M1 Max if the thermal behaviour seen in the MBP14 and MBP16 is considered.