Has Apple lost their mind? March 8th Event Disappointment

[dawnrazor]

It’s a really great question.

I’m sure the usual handful of very well off developers and podcasters will be raving about them.

But it’s honestly just like a discretionary sports car purchase for those folks more so than a really smart allocation of capital and efficient return on investment.

I’m a professional colourist… I currently have a 2020 27” iMac that i bought last year… I will be selling this as soon as I can and buying a Mac Studio (maxed out) and a Studio display….

Why?

speed. faster to do everything, realtime performance, no cache rendering, just everything you throw at it will be realtime… oh and at the end when your client is waiting for their hard drive of media rendering will be insanely fast… so over an 8 hour session i reckon this will save me a conservative 60 mins of rendering or downtime… that right there is worth every cent. as cameras begin shooting larger RAW files more and more computational power is needed to make sure that footage can be used with out comprise….

so to answer your question… whose using them? anyone that works in a professional environment where time is everything, if this can shave an hour off my day… I’ll take it everyday and twice on Sunday…

the only thing stopping g me ordering one… is the possibility of a quad M1 Ultra chip in a Mac Pro at some point in the future….

just not sure i can wait that long….

 

[Realityck]

I'm impressed by the Mac Studio but not by a $1600 monitor where you have to pay an extra $400 for a height adjustable stand. Everything else was just a bit meh for me. A refurbished iPhone 8 and an M1 powered iPad that still won't be able to remember its Safari sidebar status for more than about two minutes. Apple are slowly losing my attention. Less time woke virtue signalling and ripping people off, more time fixing the ballooning amount of software bugs and unfathomable design choices therein.

MacOS 12.3 RC is running very well for me, perhaps you should try it. I'm curious about various issues with external displays and hubs. But won't know until we get people to use it and complain about what they encounter that not right. Safari Version 15.4 (17613.1.17.1.6) seems to be running pretty well as a FYI.

 

[oz_rkie]

the only thing stopping g me ordering one… is the possibility of a quad M1 Ultra chip in a Mac Pro at some point in the future….

Will Apple really do a dual socket machine? Based on their chip diagram, a dual M1 Max is the max on a single chip.

 

[dawnrazor]

Will Apple really do a dual socket machine? Based on their chip diagram, a dual M1 Max is the max on a single chip.

yeah i don’t even know if that’s possible… but let’s face it a Silicon Mac Pro will have to be AT LEAST twice as powerful as the Mac Studio…. at least… otherwise what’s the point

 

[Jim Lahey]

Safari Version 15.4 (17613.1.17.1.6) seems to be running pretty well as a FYI.

Thanks, but...have they reverted to a working sidebar? One that opens when you call a new tab, closes when you click a bookmark, and always remembers its folder structure? Just like it used to be before they intentionally broke it?

 

[Realityck]

Will Apple really do a dual socket machine? Based on their chip diagram, a dual M1 Max is the max on a single chip.

The fact that they could be coupled to each other, could mean they have another way to connect more then only 2.

 

[oz_rkie]

yeah i don’t even know if that’s possible… but let’s face it a Silicon Mac Pro will have to be AT LEAST twice as powerful as the Mac Studio…. at least… otherwise what’s the point

Based on their emphasis on how they have made it so that the dual max m1 seems to the OS and to the apps as a single CPU, I would be leaning heavily towards Apple not making a dual socket machine in the future. Maybe they have a bigger m1 chip they can fuse? or maybe a higher clocked m1 ultra with beefier cooling.

 

[oz_rkie]

The fact that they could be coupled to each other, could mean they have another way to connect more then only 2.

The chip design they revealed today basically means that a max of two m1s can be fused on single chip.

 

[richinaus]

I’m a professional colourist… I currently have a 2020 27” iMac that i bought last year… I will be selling this as soon as I can and buying a Mac Studio (maxed out) and a Studio display….

Why?

speed. faster to do everything, realtime performance, no cache rendering, just everything you throw at it will be realtime… oh and at the end when your client is waiting for their hard drive of media rendering will be insanely fast… so over an 8 hour session i reckon this will save me a conservative 60 mins of rendering or downtime… that right there is worth every cent. as cameras begin shooting larger RAW files more and more computational power is needed to make sure that footage can be used with out comprise….

so to answer your question… whose using them? anyone that works in a professional environment where time is everything, if this can shave an hour off my day… I’ll take it everyday and twice on Sunday…

the only thing stopping g me ordering one… is the possibility of a quad M1 Ultra chip in a Mac Pro at some point in the future….

just not sure i can wait that long….

totally agree and have already ordered my Studio Ultra. Every second counts in a professional life making money. The more projects I can get done, the more money I make.
As others have mentioned, I find the price more than reasonable for the specs.

However, I do baulk a little at the monitor price to be honest and will wait to see that one in person before committing.

 

[Feyl]

Is there a specific use case you're talking about? Some specific program that runs poorly on your Mac? I have a decade-old PC right next to me (a ThinkPad X220), and apart from some minor hardware incompatibilities it runs macOS more smoothly than it does Windows 10. My 14" MBP, which I just upgraded to, is as smooth as butter even when running heavy scientific workloads. What are you finding slow?

I’m not talking about how it runs programs but how macOS runs itself. Even on my M1 Mac mini there are some UI animations that are not smooth and some apps are slower than their Windows version. The comparison with a decade old PC was meant from this point of view. The UI performance. Whether we like or hate Windows the fact is that it’s much smoother than macOS.

For example, I’m thinking about upgrading my Intel MacBook Air but the upgrade wouldn’t solve my issue. I don’t need much performance in my laptop and when I see how M1 handles macOS from the UI perspective, then I’m not sure if I want to pay for a new machine.

 

[ninecows]

Quite the opposite here – I find it inexpensive. I just ordered both the nano-textured monitor with adjustable stand and the maxed out Mac Studio.

Based on my experience with the transition from my maxed out 2019 16" MacBook Pro to the maxed out 2021 one, I expect a lot from Mac Studio. The maxed out 2019 16" MacBook Pro was (and is) a great machine, but the three months with the 2021 one are like I'm working on a different level. And I have that experience daily – I have a 2019 at work and a 2021 for work at home.

Just trying to understand the rationale here… the Mac studio I understand. And perhaps even the display. It does have a lot of bells and whistles. But 400 for an aluminum hinge? What is it that makes that adjustable height stand worth 400? Just the pretty looks?

 

[Andropov]

But 400 for an aluminum hinge? What is it that makes that adjustable height stand worth 400? Just the pretty looks?

And the counterweights to make adjusting effortless.

 

[Username-already-in-use]

Serious question, who’s using these things? I can’t find any business online that uses MacOS as its primary ecosystem let alone one that would need this much computing power. Most corporations that do require this type of computing use Windows.

Apple always shows us music artist, photographers, designers, etc using $10K setup but why on earth would any of these people need this? And if you’re an indie developer or solo artist you probably can’t afford it.

Apple’s hardware is at the point they need to focus on software that can actually take advantage of their devices.

Typically the technology is wholly or partly tax deductible for freelancers, which is why it is potentially affordable.

There are people whose work depends predominantly on usage of Apple’s MacOS-exclusive professional apps and exporting projects as fast possible means money. For these people a Mac Studio will pay for itself.

 

[k27]

And now I am reading 27” iMac is discontinued.

This is some of the best Apple news ever. Finally. I've been waiting for this for years, that Apple finally offers a desktop Mac between Mac Pro and Mac Mini without a forced (glossy) display. All-in-one computers have so many disadvantages but hardly any advantages. I have therefore never bought an iMac.

I hope there will still be a better Mac mini with a bit more power and more ports (or alternatively a cheaper Mac Studio).

 

[arvinsim]

I kinda like the "better" Mac Studio M1 Max (10 Core CPU 32 Core GPU) with 64 GB RAM and 2 TB SSD.. that feels like an "okay" price / performance Mac.

Agreed, the difference in price between that and a similarly specced 16" MBP is actually significant.

If one don't care about portability, you can save quite a lot.

 

[MigC]

I don't get the grievance about the new monitor, on paper looks on par with other offerings from competitionnif not cheaper.Any high res wide gamut 27" monitor is around the same price.Also the fact you get unified memory makes the Studio Ultra very compelling proposition for GPU use more so giving the current availability and price of top tier GPUs.For one I'm excited to see first reports/benchmarks using new Metal support under Blender

 

[mr_roboto]

Unbundled for almost twice the price, though. You could get a pretty decent 27" iMac for $2500, and a base one for $2000.
On my last iMac the display did not really last longer than the computer (developed image retention after 5 years).

This comparison breaks down a bit because the base model $2000 Mac Studio is far faster than the outgoing top of the line 2020 iMac with an i9-10910 and Radeon 5700XT. That version of the 27" iMac cost $3900 if configured with 32GB RAM and 10 GbE to match the Studio's specs (I got the old i9 iMac pricing from everymac.com, fyi). That makes it more expensive than a Mac Studio plus display, or perhaps about the same if you upgraded the iMac's RAM yourself instead of paying Apple prices.

A M1 mini plus the studio display sits in a similar price range to the 27" iMac configs you mention, and is probably at least as capable.

What they really need is to fill out some more price/performance points between the M1 mini and the Studio. I still think it's likely this is coming; they can easily put M1 Pro in the mini chassis. They're still selling 65W TDP 6-core Intel i5/i7 chips in that box, and M1 Pro fits that thermal profile nicely.

 

[SirAnthonyHopkins]

Anyone else this upset?

I really hope not.

 

[bluecoast]

If you’re a typical consumer buying the Mac studio, you’re crazy.

These machines are aimed at either small design / FX boutiques or much bigger corporations for whom time is money - and maybe even very specialist freelancers.

These companies can afford these machines (business tax deductions too) as they’ll pay for themselves with the productivity/ time gains that they’ll give.

If you didn’t watch the presentation for the Mac Studio and think:

‘This will literally save me days off my projects and/or enable me to get instant feedback off my client/stakeholder etc’

…Then you don’t need the Mac Studio.

 

[ninecows]

I don't get the grievance about the new monitor, on paper looks on par with other offerings from competitionnif not cheaper.Any high res wide gamut 27" monitor is around the same price.Also the fact you get unified memory makes the Studio Ultra very compelling proposition for GPU use more so giving the current availability and price of top tier GPUs.For one I'm excited to see first reports/benchmarks using new Metal support under Blender

My grievance is not so much at the monitor price point it self. It is for sure high compared to eg the LG 27 5K, but there’s not a lot to choose from on the 5K & 27” market. My grievance goes on that Apple decided to ask for 400 extra for height adjustment…

If some random monitor was cheap - like <<500 USD I would not expect much on ergonomics. But if you’re asking >>1000USD for a monitor it’s just offensive to ask extra for height adjustment

 

[TheFluffyDuck]

Apple was always a premium brand, but under Tim Cook, Apple become a luxury brand and has prices to match. It's funny given how vocal they are about struggling students, artists, and other have nots they advertise to in their advertising campaigns. When these prices even make upper-middle-class people bleed.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple was always a premium brand, but under Tim Cook, Apple become a luxury brand and has prices to match. It's funny given how vocal they are about struggling students, artists, and other have nots they advertise to in their advertising campaigns. When these prices even make upper-middle-class people bleed.

Because middle-class people don’t have to buy them. A student who wants to draw can still get a lot of mileage out of an entry level ipad with the Apple Pencil. You don’t have to buy the most expensive iphone. The MBA is an inexpensive option that still runs rings around more expensive windows laptops.

What Apple has done is expand their product line to hit as many price points as possible, such that there is something for everyone irrespective of their budget.

Are we still trying to do this meme where we deliberately max out all the upgrades in Apple’s most expensive product, and then pretend that is somehow representative of Apple’s overall pricing structure?

 

[v0n]

Problem here, is folks are thinking about the Mac Studio as a Mac Mini. It is not, in any way a new Mac Mini. It may be replacing the "high" Mac Mini in the product stack, but this is in no way a new Mac Mini.

But it is. Internally it's what M1 Max mini would be with a big fan. The reason why we didn't get a new Mac Mini with Pro and Max chips is because they basically decided to sell us the same £1100 budget machine in the range for twice the price. Mac Mini from now on will be the iPhone SE of the range - the Macbook Air equivalent - scarcely updated, one generation back, bottom spec budget box. And what used to be a top range Mac Mini will now be Mac Studio with double markup.

We got used to Apple shaving our wallets, but this one is a joke - they want exactly double the price to go from one 24 core max with 32Gb ram and 512Gb to two maxes, 64Gb and 1Tb. Or from one 32 core max to double spec. They don't discount it even by one iota, by the cost of the same chasis, by the same internals, it's just - pay us double. And yet the advantage in actual speed is not double, by their own benchmarks. And let's remember that these are not repairable machines. Few years down the line, when drives inevitably start failing you won't be able to replace just a drive, that £7000 machine will be junk. It will need all new internals, basically a swap for new computer.

 

[AlixSPQR]

I suppose that if Apple's products are overpriced noone will buy them and Apple will go into bankruptcy.

 

[Danfango]

So much whining in this thread.

These are cheap. Really cheap. I don't think people understand how people buy these and use them because you see the price tag and not the return of investment. You are probably not the market.

Your other options on the market for the same workflows are:

1. Buy something from HP which is vastly inferior on performance, several times the size, eats a lot more power and nearly twice as expensive. Not that you can actually do that because the lead time is so far in the damn future for custom builds that your requirement has sailed past before you can get the hardware. Lifespan 3 years if you're lucky and then you have to deal with HPE onsite which have NO PARTS AVAILABLE at the moment for most of our high end servers so you can imagine what a **** show the desktop market is as well.

2. Get something custom built and pay through the nose for a couple of fat GPUs to drive the displays, not that you can even get comparable displays for PCs at the moment, the limitation being 4k. With that you get absolutely no worthy warranty, no build qualification or anything. Lifespan 18 months, if it doesn't crash 50 times a day when you built it with absolutely no recourse.

3. Buy a Mac Pro which is even more expensive.

I know someone who bought two maxed out units last night because it's a fractional cost on their business. It's just not your business. It's also not mine but I don't whinge about it. I'd like one for sure because quite frankly they're rather cool, but that's not a cost justification for me.