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darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,366
10,122
Atlanta, GA
I used to defend Apple too but it´s getting harder and harder to do that. What affordable display shall a consumer buy for the Mac mini? And for the enterprise market, they will not stop comparing to PC-crap. The lower price of the Studio Mac compared to Mac Pro is still a high price.
Pointing out that the base Studio is cheaper and more powerful than the previous Macs which people mistakenly think were less expensive than the Studio is not defending Apple.

Apple displays have never been the affordable option, but luckily now there are several equally good, equally nice, and more affordable displays on the market.
 

Feyl

Cancelled
Aug 24, 2013
964
1,951
Have you done a fresh install, or taken it to the Apple Store to get checked out? That sounds like something’s wrong with your OS install or your hardware
I hear this a lot but sadly there's nothing wrong with my machines. The OS is just not good enough. The same used to be with iOS but it's pretty good in most places for years now. But it still stutters heavily when you view your Apple Watch badges.
 

kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
The Mac Studio was a pretty cool piece of hardware, but it’s definitely not a machine for me. Since these new M-powered Macs have rolled out, I’ll either be switching to an iMac or MacBook Air (or entry Pro). These newer machines are targeted squarely at the professional who needs the flex of the Max and Ultra.

Whenever they offer an M2 or M2 Pro option for those consumer models, I’ll be upgrading my i7 mini and regulating that to server life. In the meantime, I’m getting that new iPad Air to replace my iPad 6.
And that’s fair. The M1 and M1 Pro, despite being “laptop class” chips, are heads and feet beyond the i3 and i5 chips that Apple had been using in its power and thermal constrained “laptop class” computers (MacBook Air, Mac mini, entry level MacBook Pro, entry level iMac). I used to wonder how anyone could get any work done on Apple’s entry level Macs, given their slow, lower performance i3 and low end i5 chips, but even the M1 is powerful enough that I feel like the “Pro” models just aren’t as necessary.

Apple’s current “desktop class” computers (high end MacBook Air, high end iMac, low end Mac Studio, anything with an M1 Max) are probably overkill for my needs. Prior to the Apple Silicon transition, this class of machines likely would have been the lowest end I’d consider, just on account of how poor the low end processor options were. Now, I’m not so sure I really need something with an M1 Pro, let alone an M1 Max.

And we’ve gotten a tantalizing first glimpse at Apple’s “workstation class” plans with the M1 Ultra (as well as an extension of Apple’s nomenclature beyond “Max” ;) ). For pros in the macOS ecosystem, this is a pretty big deal (especially if you don’t need Apple’s display). Greater than current Mac Pro performance starting at $2000 (that’s a high end iMac price point, traditionally). And the design likely doesn’t suffer the same thermal constraints as the trash can Mac Pro or the iMac Pro (especially on Apple Silicon), which means that the Mac Studio is a far more future proof design and far more likely to receive upgrades in a timely manner than those models were.

People on MacRumors: “Apple needs to do more to focus on pro users!”
Also people on MacRumors: “Apple’s pro user machines more than outstrip my needs! What are they even doing?”
The consumer and prosumer class machines are more than adequate for the needs of consumers and prosumers, I don’t know what people in the market for a consumer machine were hoping to get from a “desktop class” or “workstation class” Mac that they weren’t getting from M1 based “laptop class” Macs like the Mac mini or low end iMac (or Apple’s laptops).

(Also, now we see that Apple goes Pro < Max < Ultra. I wonder what they’d do for an iPad Max or iPhone 13 Pro Max Ultra, or for AirPods Ultra, for that matter!)
 

robco74

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
509
944
I think for consumers it might sting a little less if the mini were available with M1 Pro, but it currently is stuck on M1. That would be a nice step up.

As for displays, other than an Apple logo, I'm not sure what Apple would bring to a low-end display. There are lots available, and both the mini and Studio come with an HDMI port. You can connect pretty much any display on the market.
 

ninecows

macrumors 6502a
Apr 9, 2012
760
1,249
I think for consumers it might sting a little less if the mini were available with M1 Pro, but it currently is stuck on M1. That would be a nice step up.

As for displays, other than an Apple logo, I'm not sure what Apple would bring to a low-end display. There are lots available, and both the mini and Studio come with an HDMI port. You can connect pretty much any display on the market.
I agree. They should not bother with the low end display market. But if they want to play around in the high end display market they should not charge an extra 400 for height adjustment on a 1300USD display. That stand is a joke compared to other monitor arms with far better adjustment options. I really fail to see the value for that for any users apart for something that iJustine can lick.
 
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Richu

macrumors member
Apr 23, 2021
91
148
I am traveling so I didn’t get to watch the event video but just read the Macrumors live blog (thank you for that) and seen the announcement.

Has Apple lost their damn mind???

So the price of entry for an M1 Ultra chip is $3799 for 512GB SSD drive or $3999 for 1TB

FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS AND YOU GIVE ME A 1TB DRIVE!!! This is 2022 and your high end Mac debuts with a 1TB drive. Are you kidding me???

That is not even counting how overpriced it us to start with … HOLY BATBUCKS

Maxed out build is $7999 !!!

and let’s talk about the dispay you will need … not a 32” … not a 30” but a 27” 5K display for $1600 !!!

Want to adjust the height on that display then add $400 for A STAND. A FOUR HUNDRED DOLLAR MONITOR STAND.

And now I am reading 27” iMac is discontinued.

There is not an instrument made that can measure how disappointing today’s event was for me. My feeling are literally hurt. I feel like an idiot for being an Apple guy for the last 17 years.

The rest of that crap they announced in fancy new colors was total crap too.

Anyone else this upset?
So do you actually need this performance? Otherwise just get the mac mini.
 

ninecows

macrumors 6502a
Apr 9, 2012
760
1,249
The studio is however of great value for pro-sumers like me. I’m not a real pro so cannot deduct anything. But I still rely on far more processing power to record/mix music than what is needed just to make PowerPoint or browse the web.

The base Studio covers that perfectly if I was in need for a new Mac today.

I would just have to pair it with a bigger, but cheaper display.
 
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kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
I think for consumers it might sting a little less if the mini were available with M1 Pro, but it currently is stuck on M1. That would be a nice step up.

As for displays, other than an Apple logo, I'm not sure what Apple would bring to a low-end display. There are lots available, and both the mini and Studio come with an HDMI port. You can connect pretty much any display on the market.
I don’t get it myself, but there are people who seem to think that the inability to get a consumer oriented Apple branded display is an argument against investing in the Apple ecosystem. Like, “why would you buy a Mac mini if the display for it costs $1500?!” Never mind that it works with just about any display you could throw at it.

Actually, a decent number of people here really seem to hate the idea of any device that isn’t squarely aimed at them and their needs and will vocally complain about said device, even if their needs are adequately met by other products in Apple’s range (or by other companies’ products). It’s a very egocentric perspective that I just don’t get, the idea that “every product released by every company needs to match all of my needs and shouldn’t match the needs of anyone else”. And that’s without getting into the whole business of “I need this, this, and this niche thing for the product to meet my needs, never mind that almost no one else in the world needs that specific combination”.
 

Zephar77

macrumors member
Feb 7, 2015
71
19
Texas
I am traveling so I didn’t get to watch the event video but just read the Macrumors live blog (thank you for that) and seen the announcement.

Has Apple lost their damn mind???

So the price of entry for an M1 Ultra chip is $3799 for 512GB SSD drive or $3999 for 1TB

FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS AND YOU GIVE ME A 1TB DRIVE!!! This is 2022 and your high end Mac debuts with a 1TB drive. Are you kidding me???

That is not even counting how overpriced it us to start with … HOLY BATBUCKS

Maxed out build is $7999 !!!

and let’s talk about the dispay you will need … not a 32” … not a 30” but a 27” 5K display for $1600 !!!

Want to adjust the height on that display then add $400 for A STAND. A FOUR HUNDRED DOLLAR MONITOR STAND.

And now I am reading 27” iMac is discontinued.

There is not an instrument made that can measure how disappointing today’s event was for me. My feeling are literally hurt. I feel like an idiot for being an Apple guy for the last 17 years.

The rest of that crap they announced in fancy new colors was total crap too.

Anyone else this upset?
I feel your disappointment and surprise and confusion, actually. I wasn’t expecting the new 27 inch iMac this round, but I wasn’t expecting that their all in one foundation iMac is to be discontinued? Are you serious? To get something similar you got to spend over $4000, $200 for a keyboard and $100 for the freaking mouse?
Do you think perhaps there will be a 27 inch all in one iMac announced this fall? One with an entry price that we are used to, under $2000? My wife purchased me a new 2020 iMac 27 inch from Costco because it was discounted $400 and she knew I had been looking at them for the last several months, and we missed out on Christmas Eve the $450 discount, and now I’m not sure what to do. I was set on returning the iMac to Costco for a refund and wait for the 27 inch iMac. But you’re hearing that the all-in-one iMac is no longer? Are you sure about this?
Well let’s look around and see what other folks have to say and feel the same as we do. Best, Seth
 

Pemberton_Malcolm

macrumors member
Apr 30, 2021
44
26
I am traveling so I didn’t get to watch the event video but just read the Macrumors live blog (thank you for that) and seen the announcement.

Has Apple lost their damn mind???

So the price of entry for an M1 Ultra chip is $3799 for 512GB SSD drive or $3999 for 1TB

And now I am reading 27” iMac is discontinued.

Anyone else this upset?

Nope. Not super excited. But also, not upset.

I own Apple products, but I spent more money buying shares in Apple. So, I love seeing them earn profits every year. If you cannot afford their high prices, that’s okay. Plenty other customers can afford those high prices.
 

anthony13

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2012
1,054
1,200
I think it was pretty par for the course. In fact I was surprised the display didn’t start at 2k. I hear ya, it’s pricey, but pretty standard. The AirPod max still standout as the crazy priced apple product to me.
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,366
10,122
Atlanta, GA
...but I wasn’t expecting that their all in one foundation iMac is to be discontinued?
Apple may have the sale numbers which say that the 21" iMac sold far better than the 27", which is why they offer the 24" as a compromise between the two.

Or maybe the 27" will be back with an M2 late this year or early next. After all, Apple resurrected the discontinued MacBook Air due to customer demand.
 

Pemberton_Malcolm

macrumors member
Apr 30, 2021
44
26
If you’re a typical consumer buying the Mac studio, you’re crazy.

These machines are aimed at either small design / FX boutiques or much bigger corporations for whom time is money - and maybe even very specialist freelancers.

These companies can afford these machines (business tax deductions too) as they’ll pay for themselves with the productivity/ time gains that they’ll give.

If you didn’t watch the presentation for the Mac Studio and think:

‘This will literally save me days off my projects and/or enable me to get instant feedback off my client/stakeholder etc’

…Then you don’t need the Mac Studio.

Exactly!!

if you weren’t thinking about how this will help your PROJECTS, or help you deliver to your CLIENTS, then you are not the target market. You were thinking of using this Mac Studio to run Plex while connected to your TV via HDMI, weren’t you?
 
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SalisburySam

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2019
927
814
Salisbury, North Carolina
The iMac will likely come in autumn with an M2 Pro/Max. Or maybe it’s gone for good. Who knows.
I hope your first statement is correct. If not, then Apple has put ”Paid” to the 27” iMac.

I was hoping to replace my 2017 5K 27” iMac but the Studio is overkill for me and overpriced in combo with the display for my level of disposable income. Right after to the announcement, I tried to buy a 2020 27” iMac on Apple’s website but they’re gone too. On a very disappointing note, Apple’s refurbished/clearance area shows lots of the 2020’s but at the same prices as before the announcement. On the plus side, my 2017 iMac, recently updated to Monterey, is chugging along just fine thankfully. Looks like it will occupy its place on my desk for a while longer. I know the 24” iMac can beat it handily in performance, but I’m not yet ready to give up that extra three diagonal inches because, ya know, size matters.
 
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kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
I think it was pretty par for the course. In fact I was surprised the display didn’t start at 2k. I hear ya, it’s pricey, but pretty standard. The AirPod max still standout as the crazy priced apple product to me.
And honestly, the AirPods Max are pretty worth it if you can get a sale and pick up the 3.5mm dongle. They sound superb to my ears, noise canceling is great and has none of the fit issues I had with the AirPods Pro (the primary reason I bought the Max, actually), battery life is fine (though it would be nice if the case charged them like the AirPods and AirPods Pro cases do), and the dongle allows me to have great wireless and wired headphones for basically the same price. But yeah, they are hard to justify at $550, especially sight unseen (or perhaps sound unheard?).

Apple’s products honestly seem fairly priced to me, assuming you actually need what the product offers (quite a few of Apple’s offerings do overshoot the needs of consumers and even prosumers). Oh sure, Apple gets a healthy margin on each of them (no loss leaders here), but they do tend to outperform competitors’ products at the same price point. (It’s almost as if companies like Samsung take a product that would sell [margins and all] for roughly the price of Apple’s equivalent sans margins, then tart it up to try to sell at Apple’s prices [while cheaping out on it so they can sell at more-than-Apple margins]).
 
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ofarlig

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2015
931
1,148
Sweden
You’re literally work to pay off that device though. Then when the Mac Pro comes out it even more? Saving an hour here or there is cool and all but unless your client is Disney, or similar, it makes little since to drop this amount of money when a newer MBP can save you thousands.

Like I said nobody needs these things and not a lot of corporations allow you to bring your own devices into work.

I can't do my work on Mac OS since too much of it relies on Microsoft software but if you can save an hour here and there it is worth a lot, I would most likely have my company buy the M1 Ultra version instantly if my software worked well on Mac OS. Saving a few hours might mean I can take on some extra small project for a client which would pay for the entire computer directly so it wouldn't be hard to argue for it from a business standpoint.
 
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ahurst

macrumors 6502
Oct 12, 2021
410
815
I hear this a lot but sadly there's nothing wrong with my machines. The OS is just not good enough. The same used to be with iOS but it's pretty good in most places for years now. But it still stutters heavily when you view your Apple Watch badges.
What does your CPU usage and memory pressure in Activity Monitor look like when you're getting lag? Also, any chance you've got a USB-C dongle connected with an ethernet port? One of the more common Realtek ethernet chipsets found on dongles is missing a hardware-accelerated driver for macOS, meaning it can take up a lot of spare CPU cycles.

Given that this is the first time I've ever seen complaints about UI lag on an M1 Mac (and I know several people who own one, and use one myself), this sounds like either a hardware defect or usage issue rather than a universal problem with the OS. Even at 120 Hz, I've never seen my M1 Pro 14" stutter or drop a frame. Hopefully with some troubleshooting your machines can run similarly smooth!
 

the8thark

macrumors 601
Apr 18, 2011
4,628
1,735
If you’re a typical consumer buying the Mac studio, you’re crazy.

These machines are aimed at either small design / FX boutiques or much bigger corporations for whom time is money - and maybe even very specialist freelancers.

These companies can afford these machines (business tax deductions too) as they’ll pay for themselves with the productivity/ time gains that they’ll give.

If you didn’t watch the presentation for the Mac Studio and think:

‘This will literally save me days off my projects and/or enable me to get instant feedback off my client/stakeholder etc’

…Then you don’t need the Mac Studio.
Well yes but . . . If you are the consumer (or more likely prosumer) who wanted a M1 Pro or low end M1 Max in a desktop, you might spend more to get the low end studio. Sure it's overkill, but the alternates, being the Mini and 24 inch iMac do not fit your needs.

I agree with you totally but with the desktop prosumer option gone, people have to choose low end or high end.
 

the8thark

macrumors 601
Apr 18, 2011
4,628
1,735
If you're a consumer you buy the Mac mini or the iMac.

How does pricing of the Studio and Pro affect you?
If you wanted a M1 Pro or low end M1 Max in a desktop that doesn't exist and if you really need a little more than the base M1, the only other option in a desktop is studio. So the studio prices do affect you (only low end studio of cause). Essentially forced to buy overkill because what you want does not exist.
 

kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
Well yes but . . . If you are the consumer (or more likely prosumer) who wanted a M1 Pro or low end M1 Max in a desktop, you might spend more to get the low end studio. Sure it's overkill, but the alternates, being the Mini and 24 inch iMac do not fit your needs.

I agree with you totally but with the desktop prosumer option gone, people have to choose low end or high end.
Is it really “gone”? I thought that part of the complaint for the past 10 to 15 years was the lack of a desktop prosumer option, or, at least, one that wasn’t an all-in-one.
 

the8thark

macrumors 601
Apr 18, 2011
4,628
1,735
Is it really “gone”? I thought that part of the complaint for the past 10 to 15 years was the lack of a desktop prosumer option, or, at least, one that wasn’t an all-in-one.
Yeah it's gone. Unless Apple decides to release one in the future.

As for the prosumer level headless iMac that some people wanted, that is a totally separate thing and yeah Apple delivered on that. Totally different complaint, not related to the no prosumer desktop now complaint. Mind you the studio is really pro level, not prosumer.
 

satcomer

Suspended
Feb 19, 2008
9,115
1,977
The Finger Lakes Region
I am traveling so I didn’t get to watch the event video but just read the Macrumors live blog (thank you for that) and seen the announcement.

Has Apple lost their damn mind???

So the price of entry for an M1 Ultra chip is $3799 for 512GB SSD drive or $3999 for 1TB

FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS AND YOU GIVE ME A 1TB DRIVE!!! This is 2022 and your high end Mac debuts with a 1TB drive. Are you kidding me???

That is not even counting how overpriced it us to start with … HOLY BATBUCKS

Maxed out build is $7999 !!!

and let’s talk about the dispay you will need … not a 32” … not a 30” but a 27” 5K display for $1600 !!!

Want to adjust the height on that display then add $400 for A STAND. A FOUR HUNDRED DOLLAR MONITOR STAND.

And now I am reading 27” iMac is discontinued.

There is not an instrument made that can measure how disappointing today’s event was for me. My feeling are literally hurt. I feel like an idiot for being an Apple guy for the last 17 years.

The rest of that crap they announced in fancy new colors was total crap too.

Anyone else this upset?

Nope! Iwas never an iMac user! How ever I did notice the Studio Display was a 27 inch gutted out Display with a great camera installed! So this new Mac Studio is replacement for 27 inch iMac Pro!
 

kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
Yeah it's gone. Unless Apple decides to release one in the future.

As for the prosumer level headless iMac that some people wanted, that is a totally separate thing and yeah Apple delivered on that. Totally different complaint, not related to the no prosumer desktop now complaint. Mind you the studio is really pro level, not prosumer.
Oh, so we’re talking about two different things: prosumer all-in-one vs prosumer headless. That’s fair, though I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see an Mx Max iMac in the 24” size sometime in the future. Would you consider the 27” screen essential for a prosumer iMac?

I wonder which one had more market demand: prosumer all-in-one or prosumer headless? Likely the latter, just judging from all the demands for a higher end desktop headless Mac over the years on forums like this. I’ve always felt that the iMac Pro fit into a weird space in Apple’s lineup, people who needed a legitimately pro computer but who didn’t already have (or need) a legitimately pro display and could settle on an all-on-one.
 
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tevion5

macrumors 68000
Jul 12, 2011
1,967
1,603
Ireland
Problem here, is folks are thinking about the Mac Studio as a Mac Mini. It is not, in any way a new Mac Mini. It may be replacing the "high" Mac Mini in the product stack, but this is in no way a new Mac Mini. The price alone proves that point. Whether you are shocked about how high or low it is (based on your perspective), this is not targeting the previous customers for the Mac Mini. I think there is a reason that it is called Mac Studio (no mini in there), as it is either targeting folks who looked at the iMac Pro, or folks wanting a smaller Mac Pro.

Exactly right.

This is the new iMac Pro or old entry level Power Mac / Mac Pro that used to start around $2,000 (with rather anemic specs for the platform).

While before the $2,000 Power Mac / Mac Pro that scaled up to $10,000 configs was one device, it's now split into something like a $2,000 - $8,000 device for prosumers and even many pros, and a separate $8,000 - $50,000 device for actual big industry level pros.

1646839993546.png


1646840366131.png


Considering that in 2010 the entry level $2,499 Mac Pro got you a Quad core Xeon CPU, 3GB Ram, 1TB HDD and a rather weak GPU, this new entry level Mac Studio is a practically steal for $2,000 giving you a 10 core CPU that hold's steady with a 12 core Xeon, 32GB Ram, 512GB SSD and a more capable 24 core GPU.
 
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