iPad Has lack of iPadOS innovation changed your future iPad buying decisions…

[mrLucas]

Really depends on the use case - I use the iPad for the software not for the os. What I mean by that is I spend all of my time in apps. It’s the approach the iPad uses verses the mac, it’s app first rather than os first it seems.
I use an abundance of high quality pro software to achieve my goals. This exists already for my use case - I’m sorry it doesn’t exist for yours. But it doesn’t make it a bad machine - its just optimised for its own use case. if your own usages are within what the iPad is optimal for - drawing, creating, design, photography etc - then it’s a win win, it even beats a mac. If you want terminal, dev stuff, torrents etc then it’s just probably not the right choice for you.

thats a nice way to put it

app first not OS first. Os is almost non existand on ipad.

In fact, I have a seceret thinking that this is the reason some people reject ipads. Computers are sort of this special hidden worlds, hidden in a box, and a big part of it is the OS. Its just the experience of a ‘hidden cave with treasure’. With iPads you kinda dont have that, at least not quite in the same way…. Even thou, I think, you do have it , even more so, in some other subtle ways…..

Anyways, do you know what I mean? Computers feel like its a separate world for itself, but iPads are more ‘shallow’ sort of, so Its more upfront and less in depth. Most things are there allready you cant really dig to deep in ipads, maybe, if you were using some special apps, but even aps tend to be simple. So most things are more upfront and not so hidden.

I think, people that reject ‘real computer’ part, do it for the emotional feeling computers give them, not only for functionality. I think thats the whole thing with windows. Its not about windwos actually making so much functional sence on a very small screen, but more so, it feels as if you are in a different world - that has windows floating in it. Ipad doesnt feel like that so much, its more - out there, in this world….


what do you think?

 

[007p]

Yes, if it wasn't for the screen size I wouldn't even have a 2018 Pro.

I won't be buying another until AV1 codec is around as that is all its really good for.

Unless of course you happen to be lucky enough to fall into one of the selective professions that Apple deem worthy enough to focus on for iPadOS. Developing software for the device itself apparently doesn't apply...yet.

I have no interest in a laptop and the lack of any significant improvements to iPadOS since iPadOS 13 is really pushing me to just ditch MacOS (desktop) and iPadOS enitrely. Want to force me to buy and carry two devices? Nope...I'm just not going to buy either. Any excuse of iPad not being able to do certain things went out the window when they gave it full keyboard and mouse capabilities. Oh and then they decided it would be good to shove a M1 chip it in...just marketing I guess ?

 

[Ludatyk]

Apple may introduce pop up windows but unless it’s something that can work on lower end iPads which have the largest market share and install base, it’s not going to receive much developer support.

I understand this. But Apple can apply a limit to which iPads can support such a feature. There's RAM caps for developers as far as how much their app can use on certain iPads. I think Apple can push iPadOS further, they have the hardware to do so in M1 iPPs.

And developers of iOS/iPadOS are the most active people in the industry... if Apple would introduce pop-up windows for iPadOS, it will be a flood of apps that support such a feature on day 1.

 

[mrLucas]

And developers of iOS/iPadOS are the most active people in the industry... if Apple would introduce pop-up windows for iPadOS, it will be a flood of apps that support such a feature on day 1.

Are they? Theres still stuff that iPad supports that not all apps have addopted, or - not in a good way anyway… Theres quite a fex examples of apps that cant multitask cant drag and drop, dont support keyboard well, cand slideover, or even, dont even have an iPad app but have iphone version *which again, for some reason - and this is Apples fault, cant multitask, cant slideover (WHYYY??? Its literally a slideover type of app… ?!)))

So…. maybe other developers are even more inert, but theres quite a few features apple has introduced that developers have not yet picked up… Like theese…

 

[secretk]

And developers of iOS/iPadOS are the most active people in the industry... if Apple would introduce pop-up windows for iPadOS, it will be a flood of apps that support such a feature on day 1.

This is interesting point of view. As a former Developer I was interested to read about Swift. I mean I wanted to check it out. I have to be honest I did not enjoy it. There is way too much unneeded complexity. There are multiples ways to do the same thing with small nuances. As a Developer I do not want to learn all of that. The official Swift language book is over 1000 pages. They really went a bit overboard. There are concepts that are too complicated for what they need to be used for. They could have simplified the language honestly.

Developers also need a Mac to write Swift while with other languages you can use also Windows and Linux.

I have to be honest and say that I like the idea of Xcode and Playgrounds but I have heard that even this platform is plagued with bugs whenever they introduce new Swift version.

Overall I do think that Apple can do more to motivate Developers to do iOS/iPadOS Development.

Is this the only problem to not have more apps on iPadOS? I doubt it. I assume it is more related about the fact that apps need to work on the base iPad models and that people are not willing to pay a lot for mobile apps.

 

[mrLucas]

This is interesting point of view. As a former Developer I was interested to read about Swift. I mean I wanted to check it out. I have to be honest I did not enjoy it. There is way too much unneeded complexity. There are multiples ways to do the same thing with small nuances. As a Developer I do not want to learn all of that. The official Swift language book is over 1000 pages. They really went a bit overboard. There are concepts that are too complicated for what they need to be used for. They could have simplified the language honestly.

Developers also need a Mac to write Swift while with other languages you can use also Windows and Linux.

I have to be honest and say that I like the idea of Xcode and Playgrounds but I have heard that even this platform is plagued with bugs whenever they introduce new Swift version.

Overall I do think that Apple can do more to motivate Developers to do iOS/iPadOS Development.

Is this the only problem to not have more apps on iPadOS? I doubt it. I assume it is more related about the fact that apps need to work on the base iPad models and that people are not willing to pay a lot for mobile apps.

Arent base iPads quite powerfull now too?


I am thinking about what you wrote about swift . Thats an interesting point of view. Can you elaborate more of your findings on the language? I dont use swift, but was thinking it would be usefull to know it, now, reading what you wrote seems a bit convoluted to learn…

 

[Zazoh]

Overall I do think that Apple can do more to motivate Developers to do iOS/iPadOS Development.

Is this the only problem to not have more apps on iPadOS? I doubt it. I assume it is more related about the fact that apps need to work on the base iPad models and that people are not willing to pay a lot for mobile apps.

Yup. And, M1 Chips on MacBook are supposed to support iOS / iPadOS apps, but unless you want a 2inch wide window on your 27 in monitor, you have to re-write the design to work across several different size screens, all for the same amount of $ and not much uptick on users.

The "mobile" platform is the incentive to create for. Will other stuff run it, sure, is there an incentive for developers to support it, nope.

I'm an expert in neither, but Swift was easier to learn, for me, then ObjectiveC.

 

[secretk]

Arent base iPads quite powerfull now too?

Imo they still do not have powerful CPU or enough RAM to call them powerful devices.

I am thinking about what you wrote about swift . Thats an interesting point of view. Can you elaborate more of your findings on the language? I dont use swift, but was thinking it would be usefull to know it, now, reading what you wrote seems a bit convoluted to learn…

I honestly do not remember a lot of it because I did not enjoy it. This is what I usually do when I don't enjoy what I am reading. I erase it from my mind. That being said for example I found it a bit unneeded to have both structures and objects and to have to know when to use which.

I also found the usage of optionals and injection (with operandi like ! and ?) a bit too complicated as well.

Not the most complex thing ever I just do not enjoy it as a Developer.

 

[secretk]

Yup. And, M1 Chips on MacBook are supposed to support iOS / iPadOS apps, but unless you want a 2inch wide window on your 27 in monitor, you have to re-write the design to work across several different size screens, all for the same amount of $ and not much uptick on users.

The "mobile" platform is the incentive to create for. Will other stuff run it, sure, is there an incentive for developers to support it, nope.

I'm an expert in neither, but Swift was easier to learn, for me, then ObjectiveC.

From what I saw I agree that Swift is better than Objective C. I come from C, C++, Java, C# world though and I find them more intuitive.

 

[yitwail]

Arent base iPads quite powerfull now too?

The base iPad has 3gb ram, which is less than an iPhone mini, so it’s anything but powerful.

 

[Bodhitree]

From what I saw I agree that Swift is better than Objective C. I come from C, C++, Java, C# world though and I find them more intuitive.

Interesting, that’s my background as well, although I was more heavily focussed on C++ for a long time. I was wondering about picking up Swift or perhaps Python as I have a little spare time.

 

[secretk]

Interesting, that’s my background as well, although I was more heavily focussed on C++ for a long time. I was wondering about picking up Swift or perhaps Python as I have a little spare time.

I enjoyed Python more than Swift. However I am most probably biased. I have been interested in bioinformatics since college years (loved biology and chemistry and especially molecular biology as a teen). Python and R are rather heavily used in this area so I had incentive to learn Python.

 

[mrLucas]

The base iPad has 3gb ram, which is less than an iPhone mini, so it’s anything but powerful.

but thats still powerfull. (for an ipad)
hm let me rephrase that. thats still not powerless
I think there are laptops today you can still buy that have around 4gigs of ram? right?


## just for clarification, I dont consider ANY ipad to actually be powerfull ?

 

[dk001]

Changed it? No.
When my current one wears out I'll buy the top of the line and be set for a few more years at minimum.
I am disappointed I cannot do so much more with this device however that is what I have my hybrid pc for.

 

[yitwail]

I think there are laptops today you can still buy that have around 4gigs of ram?

From googling, 4gb seems to be standard for chromebooks and 4gb is also minimum requirement for Windows 11 but I sure wouldn’t want to use 4gb Win 11 laptop.

 

[rui no onna]

From googling, 4gb seems to be standard for chromebooks and 4gb is also minimum requirement for Windows 11 but I sure wouldn’t want to use 4gb Win 11 laptop.

Exactly and Windows has swap/pagefile to make up for low RAM (at least so programs restore to the same state you left them in).

 

[Bodhitree]

I enjoyed Python more than Swift. However I am most probably biased. I have been interested in bioinformatics since college years (loved biology and chemistry and especially molecular biology as a teen). Python and R are rather heavily used in this area so I had incentive to learn Python.

Interesting. One extra vote for Python then.

But to come back to iPads, I think the biggest problem with the iPad is discoverability of software. Searching through the App Store is a nightmare unless you know exactly what you want, by name, and I have yet to come across a good review site which tracks good pro software in the app store.

 

[secretk]

Exactly and Windows has swap/pagefile to make up for low RAM (at least so programs restore to the same state you left them in).

This! iOS is less resilient when it comes to RAM management compared to desktop OS like Linux, Windows, MacOS. Not only it does not have SWAP but you also cannot upgrade RAM for the device (something I can do with my Windows laptop).

When it comes to buying iOS device RAM is far more important factor for me compared to when I buy Windows laptop because I know that I do not have the opportunity to upgrade it later on.

 

[Hunter5117]

The base iPad has 3gb ram, which is less than an iPhone mini, so it’s anything but powerful.

My understanding is that iPadOS can sandbox up to 6gb per app. This was one of the reasons Apple stated for the 16gb IPPs that you could have more apps running in a maximum space. So yes, limiting the iPad to 3gb certainly sounds like it will limit performance of some apps.

 

[cupcakes2000]

So yes, limiting the iPad to 3gb certainly sounds like it will limit performance of some apps.

Which, to be fair, is exactly the same as any computer system in existence

 

[mrLucas]

guys (and girls) the original permise was that 3gigs ram is not enought for floating windows. but I used to have floating windows on 16mb of ram

 

[secretk]

Which, to be fair, is exactly the same as any computer system in existence

This is true. Every OS has limitations related to RAM. I am wondering can it be the case that with desktop OS it is more clear for users when to install an app and when not compared to iOS? Also I have seen cases where a company would say that you need at least 8 GB to install the app.

I have seen iOS version restrictions for installing apps (say iOS 12 or higher) but not so much about RAM.

The issue I have with iOS is that I can technically install apps and can upgrade the iOS but the device then becomes unusable. I feel that with the idea to continue the claim of 5 years support/usage people are deceived to put their devices in a situation where the experience is just not nice.

 

[secretk]

guys (and girls) the original permise was that 3gigs ram is not enought for floating windows. but I used to have floating windows on 16mb of ram

Not exactly. You asked me why I say that Developers might not want to write iOS software for wide range of devices (including base iPad). I am not talking about floating windows, I am telling you that as a Developer I find annoying to have to create an app and test it for iOS devices of different combinations (SoC, RAM, iOS version). This is a nightmare for maintenance and testing.

 

[rui no onna]

guys (and girls) the original permise was that 3gigs ram is not enought for floating windows. but I used to have floating windows on 16mb of ram

If you're running the same apps you were back then, sure. Alas, apps are way more bloated nowadays and a single web browser tab often uses 500MB-1GB all by itself.

If one is already experiencing reloads when switching between, say, 5 foreground and background apps, that suggests there's insufficient RAM to actually keep those 5 apps in active foreground windows. Mind you, while using split screen on a 2017 12.9 with 4GB, I've actually had both split screen apps crash on me (Safari and Excel).

And again, there's no swap on iOS like there is on Mac/Windows/Linux. That's something Apple can add but would probably require extensive changes in the way the OS functions. There's going to be a minimum storage performance (at least A12?) and capacity level (128GB?) to support swap so iPads don't slow to a crawl or die prematurely from SSD wear or have the swap use up a huge chunk of user's available storage.

 

[rui no onna]

I have seen iOS version restrictions for installing apps (say iOS 12 or higher) but not so much about RAM.

The OS restrictions actually dictate RAM support. iOS 12 runs on minimum 1GB RAM so developers would have to support that.

Alas, it doesn't guarantee developers will do extensive testing nor can they test for all possible scenarios. What may work fine with just the single app focus may be an exercise in frustration when one starts swapping between a couple of apps.