How worried are Google and Microsoft?

[gotluck]

You see, you can play this game all day long.

Yes indeed it is easy to cherry pick scenarios to make it seem like only one side is innovating. There is give and take on both sides.

I'm truly curious about what improvements could come with lightning audio without some other extra external dac. Just the fact that audio will come out of the lightning port does not change it's quality.. Maybe they intend on having the processing done on hardware in the headphones themselves with lightning simply doing a pass through with no processing don't by the iphone? Sounds like a good way to make headphones more expensive.

Like somebody said earlier, I would rather the internal audio hardware was just better, rather than focusing on outsourcing the task

 

[Tig Bitties]

Seriously, it seems Apple is the ONE that worried since it now just follows the trends that are made by others..

Google and Android are like Microsoft and PC makers in the 90's = total dominant.

While Apple is just staying the same, maybe slightly behind the curve, and will eventually become a niche product. With lower sales.

 

[thehustleman]

What Apple showed at WWDC must have them very worried, I think.

While Microsoft and Google are doing hit and misses and still getting settled into what they want to do, Apple has decided, their foundation is concrete, the ecosystem that is stable, convenient, very easy to get into and rewarding.

Apple's organisation is just unmatched. While Android and Microsoft's Operating Systems might offer some features iOS still does not have, what Apple has is a very stable and good underlying platform with standardized rules and features that neither Microsoft, nor Google can match.

HomeKit
Headphone MFi - Allowing for 48KHz lossless audio, which will be big with audiophiles
Metal
SpriteKit
iCloud Drive integration
Family Sharing
Seamless and deep integration between iPhone - Mac - iPad
Health app and integration. Apple won't abandon and do it half-way, like Samsung, so companies will build things for this.

Not to mention tons of APIs and features from previous versions of iOS.

And while having such a strong foundation, now they've started integrating Android's features, which are much easier to do than the foundation part, making Android less and less attractive of an option. With iPhone 6, they'll make big screens too.

So IMO, Google and Microsoft have to be really, really worried. Apple have their **** together and they don't.

If they speed up the process and steal everything from Google I'll come back if they start offering decent phone sizes.

Their only offering right now is just too small

 

[SomeGuyDude]

They should just get rid of headphone jacks completely. I have been quite happy with my bluetooth headsets that I've used, I've had various ones for the past 10 years.

But why anyone would want to stand in the way of progress just to keep an outdated headphone jack is beyond me. Even though proprietary kind of sucks, at least Apple comes out with superior versions of hardware items. The lightning adapter is VASTLY superior to mini usb, I wish that was the standard.

I can't even begin to explain how completely wrong you are about bluetooth audio quality and bluetooth headsets versus real headphones. There aren't any BT headphones that can hold a candle to even mid-grade straight-line cans. End of transaction.

The Bluebuds X and some big things like the Parrot Zik do an admirable job, but those are $170 earbuds that have the audio quality of $70 earbuds and $300 cans that sound like $150 cans. I mean I guess if you like listening to cheap audio then sure. But believe it or not some of us actually like GOOD sound.

...I would have thought on an Apple forum people understood premium product quality...

The hilarious part is that Apple is finally realizing that they're on the precipice of losing their foothold like they did in the 80s so they're scrambling to start incorporating all the choices that Android has had in it since the beginning. Everyone yapping about how perfect the keyboard was and Apple doesn't need to let in 3rd party... looks like Apple disagrees now!

 

[Lloydbm41]

Yes indeed it is easy to cherry pick scenarios to make it seem like only one side is innovating. There is give and take on both sides.

I'm truly curious about what improvements could come with lightning audio without some other extra external dac. Just the fact that audio will come out of the lightning port does not change it's quality.. Maybe they intend on having the processing done on hardware in the headphones themselves with lightning simply doing a pass through with no processing don't by the iphone? Sounds like a good way to make headphones more expensive.

Like somebody said earlier, I would rather the internal audio hardware was just better, rather than focusing on outsourcing the task

I think people are limiting their focus on this topic. Who says Apple will only have one lightning port on new devices? What if a lightning port replaces the 3.5mm audio jack? Additionally, the lightning connector has 3 additional pins that could be used for a myriad of things.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Google and Android are like Microsoft and PC makers in the 90's = total dominant.

While Apple is just staying the same, maybe slightly behind the curve, and will eventually become a niche product. With lower sales.

And what's amazing is that this is history repeating itself.

I guess most here are too young to remember but there was a time when Apple dominated the home computer market. What happened was Microsoft and IBM came around and started making computers affordable and more widespread while Apple dug in their heels and refused to make compromises and next thing you know the brand completely collapsed on itself and was barely able to be even remotely competitive until the iPod.

Now they're doing the same thing, except it looks like they've learned at least somewhat so they're fighting to pull in at least the FEATURES that have made Google the de facto smartphone platform.

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I think people are limiting their focus on this topic. Who says Apple will only have one lightning port on new devices? What if a lightning port replaces the 3.5mm audio jack? Additionally, the lightning connector has 3 additional pins that could be used for a myriad of things.

Replacing the 3.5mm with a lightning is basically putting an absolutely idiotic divide in between themselves and literally every headphone manufacturer. First of all, unless the jack is made that it can still FUNCTION like a 3.5mm (meaning an auxiliary pipe as well as data transmission) then they're dead in the water. But even if they do, they'll STILL have to sell adapters because there isn't going to be a single company worth their salt willing to manufacture lightning versions of their headphones.

This might be the Beats strategy, that Beats will start making lightning headphones, but... well. Good luck guys. I have a pile of headphones that I am not replacing to use your stupid iPhone 6. If that ever comes to pass, and it's not just a dumb rumor, I'm never using an Apple mobile device again.

EDIT: I'll say this. If Apple got rid of the 3.5mm, Google and every Android hardware company would throw a party.

 

[gotluck]

I think people are limiting their focus on this topic. Who says Apple will only have one lightning port on new devices? What if a lightning port replaces the 3.5mm audio jack? Additionally, the lightning connector has 3 additional pins that could be used for a myriad of things.

That's all fair and good but I'm still curious where the actual improvement is going to be over the standard 3.5 mm jack. I suppose it could be something aside from quality, that we are not expecting..

All things equal, digital is not superior to analog., has to be more to it.

I'm with someguydude on this one. I'm all for having both, but removing 3.5 mm jack seems like it would only be to drive sales of beats lightning.

 

[Technarchy]

EDIT: I'll say this. If Apple got rid of the 3.5mm, Google and every Android hardware company would throw a party.

More than that it would alienate dozens of headphone makers that have optimized their devices for the iPhone.

iPhone has a massive selection of headphones while android has few made specifically for that platform.

I can see why Apple ditched floppy drives, I can see why Apple nixed the CD-ROM drive...but dumping the headphone jack makes as much sense as dumping the USB port.

What could possibly happen is Apple could offer lighting audio for a few years, wait till it gets lots of support and then phase out the headphone jack, but even then it's a silly proposition just to make something thinner which no one cares about anyway.

 

[Vegastouch]

Offing the 3.5 mm jack right now would be preposterous. I've read articles theorizing that they may drop the 3.5 jack in the future so they can make the phone even thinner, but that's all being said in that direction AFAIK.

What seems to be coming now is audiophile/active noise cancelling headphones connecting through the lightning jack.

There comes a point when a phone is too thin. At least imo.

----------

IIRC, Some phones manufacturers (Pantech) had already offered microUSB
headphones on basic phones. I know since I had to buy them for my wife's old phones), so it's not new.
For 64bit OS, do you see other android makers have them (on HTC M8 or S5)? They're not because we still don't need it now. Maybe next year.

Microsoft went to 64 bit years ago....on their computers. I assume their phones use it too but i dont really know.

 

[Vegastouch]

More than that it would alienate dozens of headphone makers that have optimized their devices for the iPhone.

iPhone has a massive selection of headphones while android has few made specifically for that platform.

I can see why Apple ditched floppy drives, I can see why Apple nixed the CD-ROM drive...but dumping the headphone jack makes as much sense as dumping the USB port.

What could possibly happen is Apple could offer lighting audio for a few years, wait till it gets lots of support and then phase out the headphone jack, but even then it's a silly proposition just to make something thinner which no one cares about anyway.

What? What do you mean by that? ANY 3.5mm headjack will work with Android and there are TONS to choose from.

You must be talking about those with a microphone in them to answer calls.

I dont care about those, my headphones are for listening to music and for how they sound. The ONLY ones ive owned with a mic in them is the ones that came with the device.....and i never used the iPhones earbuds (the older ones) because i didnt like them much.

 

[spinedoc77]

I love being able to attach to legacy products. I would be very sad without a headphone jack

No way! I want analog and digital sound output compatibility !

I don't believe sound over USB is very new either?

Hehe, I was just exaggerating for effect, although personally I don't have any use for the headphones jack and wouldn't miss it in the least. Bluetooth really is very nice for these kind of uses IMO.

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I can't even begin to explain how completely wrong you are about bluetooth audio quality and bluetooth headsets versus real headphones. There aren't any BT headphones that can hold a candle to even mid-grade straight-line cans. End of transaction.

The Bluebuds X and some big things like the Parrot Zik do an admirable job, but those are $170 earbuds that have the audio quality of $70 earbuds and $300 cans that sound like $150 cans. I mean I guess if you like listening to cheap audio then sure. But believe it or not some of us actually like GOOD sound.

...I would have thought on an Apple forum people understood premium product quality...

The hilarious part is that Apple is finally realizing that they're on the precipice of losing their foothold like they did in the 80s so they're scrambling to start incorporating all the choices that Android has had in it since the beginning. Everyone yapping about how perfect the keyboard was and Apple doesn't need to let in 3rd party... looks like Apple disagrees now!

It's not that I'm wrong, it's that I don't care. There are all kinds of audiophiles in the world, some of them will even tell you digital music sucks. Maybe Apple will build a record player attachment for them. But myself, I can't really hear that difference. I have a feeling it's like wine tasting, maybe a tiny tiny amount of people can actually taste the difference but the other 99% can't, but just say they can. In any event if I do have the time to listen to music I'll throw it up on my Onkyo/Polk 7.1 setup and lay back on the sofa and enjoy. or crank up my nice tunes in my Audi. Headphones are strictly for the gym for me anyhow, you are already at a disadvantage as soon as those headphones go on IMO.

Hey I'll give you Apple premium quality, how are those headphones that came with your iPhone working out for you? I've got some Monster cables to sell you, and hey some Beats headphones while we are at it.

 

[Explicitic]

They should just get rid of headphone jacks completely. I have been quite happy with my bluetooth headsets that I've used, I've had various ones for the past 10 years.

But why anyone would want to stand in the way of progress just to keep an outdated headphone jack is beyond me. Even though proprietary kind of sucks, at least Apple comes out with superior versions of hardware items. The lightning adapter is VASTLY superior to mini usb, I wish that was the standard.

The headphone jack is oudated...in what way? If Apple switched out the 3.5mm jack in favor of Lightning headphone connections, do you believe you would notice a difference?

The standard for all consumer (wired) headphones is analog 3.5 or 1/4 in. jacks. There's nothing wrong with it and absolutely no reason to replace it.

One of the biggest downsides to this is Lightning will NEVER be standardized in mobile devices other than Apple's own. Whether it's because Apple doesn't want to license it or the industry refuses to accept it, it will not be showing up on other devices. This would simply be Apple further locking you into their ecosystem.

 

[Black Magic]

The headphone jack is oudated...in what way? If Apple switched out the 3.5mm jack in favor of Lightning headphone connections, do you believe you would notice a difference?

The standard for all consumer (wired) headphones is analog 3.5 or 1/4 in. jacks. There's nothing wrong with it and absolutely no reason to replace it.

One of the biggest downsides to this is Lightning will NEVER be standardized in mobile devices other than Apple's own. Whether it's because Apple doesn't want to license it or the industry refuses to accept it, it will not be showing up on other devices. This would simply be Apple further locking you into their ecosystem.

Relax. Some of the comments in this thread are so ridiculous, it's no wonder no one at Apple or any other big time company is asking these folks for input or advice. This is all an internet rumor with little to no substance. Wait until the final release then have a bitch fit.

If Apple believes that they can provide better sound by going digital, I have faith they can pull it off properly. Until then, I think it's ridiculous for folks to have an internet temper tantrum without seeing the end result first. Apple is just trying to move things forward, make things better, and make a profit. It's hard to do when most folks are conservative and resist change.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Ah, ignorance. I love it. Cheerio, no sense talking with the blockheaded. Enjoy your POS Bluetooth and claiming they're totally just as good.

You and Apple will get along fine digging your own graves insisting everyone will jump in with you.

 

[Technarchy]

What? What do you mean by that? ANY 3.5mm headjack will work with Android and there are TONS to choose from.

You must be talking about those with a microphone in them to answer calls.

I dont care about those, my headphones are for listening to music and for how they sound. The ONLY ones ive owned with a mic in them is the ones that came with the device.....and i never used the iPhones earbuds (the older ones) because i didnt like them much.

Please. Spare us the spin.

Fact: android does not have many headphones optimized to work completely with android.

What you personally use is irrelevant. I run, ski and mountain bike and always take my phone phone and it's tragic that android has few decent headphones where the controls work, where with my iPhone I can control the audio completely and have Siri read and compose messages without the phone having to be pulled out the backpack or pocket. That sucks.

 

[Dolorian]

While Microsoft and Google are doing hit and misses and still getting settled into what they want to do, Apple has decided...

Apple has had it's share of misses: MobileMe (.mac before it), Ping, and by the looks of it, iTunes Radio (considering the Beats acquisition and how Cook said Beats is the first subscription service to really get it right).

As far as Google goes, their mission, as they put it, "is to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful". Very much everything they do, from Search to Maps to Google Now and Android Wear to moonshot projects such as Tango and Loon is subservient to that goal. Android and Chrome are also means to this end. Google is rather clear on what they want to do.

I think Apple made a lot of useful and much needed improvement to both iOS and OS X and I give them props for that. But I don't see why any of the stuff you listed would worry Google.

 

[Vegastouch]

Please. Spare us the spin.

Fact: android does not have many headphones optimized to work completely with android.

What you personally use is irrelevant. I run, ski and mountain bike and always take my phone phone and it's tragic that android has few decent headphones where the controls work, where with my iPhone I can control the audio completely and have Siri read and compose messages without the phone having to be pulled out the backpack or pocket. That sucks.

Its no spin. I wasnt aware there wasnt many to choose from with a Mic. Ive never looked for any. Im just not sure how many people care about that. You just seem VERY techie and need everything. Most people dont care about techie stuff like that.

Some of you guys that work in a computer industry have to remember not that most people do not.

 

[Black Magic]

Its no spin. I wasnt aware there wasnt many to choose from with a Mic. Ive never looked for any. Im just not sure how many people care about that. You just seem VERY techie and need everything. Most people dont care about techie stuff like that.

Some of you guys that work in a computer industry have to remember not that most people do not.

LOL! Using EarPods with mic and controls is now considered very techie? LMAO! Sorry to break your spin cycle buddy, but many folks techie or not use this very convenient technology. Heck, I was at a tire shop the other day and 2 ladies were sitting down having conversations using the earbuds with mics. Annoying as hell and they were anything but techies.

 

[Technarchy]

LOL! Using EarPods with mic and controls is now considered very techie? LMAO! Sorry to break your spin cycle buddy, but many folks techie or not use this very convenient technology. Heck, I was at a tire shop the other day and 2 ladies were sitting down having conversations using the earbuds with mics. Annoying as hell and they were anything but techies.

For me the idea of audiophile headphones is a bit of a laugh. They are casual listening devices at best, with some sounding better than others, but still casual.

What they should always be a on smart phone is functional otherwise it diminishes your smartphone experience.

I use my Samsung headphones when walking around town, but they don't stay in my ear so for the athletic stuff it's Apple EarPods which do stay glued into my ear.

Even when using the Samsung headphones, which sound pretty good, there is no software interface for Google Now through the headphone remote, so I still can't have have Google Now read messages, make calls, compose emails. It's very irritating and something I REALLY miss on my iPhone with Siri.

 

[Vegastouch]

LOL! Using EarPods with mic and controls is now considered very techie? LMAO! Sorry to break your spin cycle buddy, but many folks techie or not use this very convenient technology. Heck, I was at a tire shop the other day and 2 ladies were sitting down having conversations using the earbuds with mics. Annoying as hell and they were anything but techies.

No, i said HE seems to be very techie and needs everything. You wouldnt see that from reading one post about headphones though. Its the months, even years of other posts ive read that you seemed to have not seen. Its not a knock on him. Im just saying i dont think the average person cares about that. Look at his last paragraph......how many average users do you think do that with their headphone mic?
Google Now doesnt even read you messages. Ive never seen it as a option in the settings and it doesnt do that even without headphones. You have to get an app or put the phone in car mode for that.

I hardly ever see anyone using headphones with a mic but i have seen it a handfull of times. I bet you dont see it very often either but you did that day. I can see a use for them. Im just saying i doubt MOST people care and i see way more people using a bluetooth earpiece.

 

[Robstevo]

I would say both are worried to a certain extent. I love Google and there services and the amount of innovation they are displaying. Microsoft ? Not so much, I work on windows 7 everyday working on AutoCAD from time to time and modeling with REVIT basically every day. So I have to use windows and I would say windows gets the job done but that's windows 7. I bought a surface rt thinking it would be a nice choice but it turned out to be a wrong decision because it was a piece of **** to be honest , too many times the browser simply froze for no apparent reason , and I got a weird problem were I basically had put it in some weird state and try and find this code that gave it a fresh install...all because I let the battery drain down and I'm guessing it did something to some file and corrupted it.

There update to windows phone seemed like just a catch up , although there voice assistant seems better and more capable that siri in certain ways. So in some ways they are heading in the right direction.

Google now is great for speed and telling me how far to my next destination without me even saying I'm going there lol.

That's off topic though.

I would say Microsoft are scared to an exrent of the integration of iOS 8 and OSX, Simply because people ( and a lot of people use I phones ) will go WOW at the ability to pick up from were you left off in terms of work , as well as the ability to text and make phone calls with your Mac. Likewise IOS 8 is now officially more simple to use than both android and windows 8 mobile , but now it's got a little bit more customisability than windows, and its also got widgets, 3rd party key boards, and a huge amount of APIs developers can use to make apps smarter and better. It's also a fair comment to say apps on iPhone are a bit more refined, and these APIs will make iPhone apps more refined and intelligent than there counter parts.


I know just from myself that IOS 8 and Osx is making me want to switch back to an iPhone and buy a new Mac and iPad.

This competition is clearly great for us consumers though and honestly can't wait to see what Google are going to do now that apple had caught up.

 

[mib1800]

What's there to worry. Most people i know are not using apple platform. So whatever further new proprietary integrations with ios8 has no advantage whatsoever.

I think most of the world are not so Mac crazy as the US or foolish enough to pay a premium for Apple products.

Unless apple opens up its proprietary system like Google or Microsoft otherwise there is nothing to worry.

 

[Vegastouch]

Competition is great but i wouldnt say Apple has caught up. They still have a ways to go but they got closer....til Googles next convention to show whats new this year.

 

[Technarchy]

I think most of the world are not so Mac crazy as the US or foolish enough to pay a premium for Apple products.

In case you missed it, the USA is Apple's core market. It's where they sell the majority of Macs, iPads, iPhones, app purchases and iTunes content.

As for being foolish enough...

https://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/14/apple-smartphone-market-share-japan-36/

http://9to5mac.com/2014/02/19/apple...ng-before-china-mobile-deal-show-idc-figures/

http://marketingland.com/report-iphone-regains-share-europe-q1-81820

 

[Robstevo]

Competition is great but i wouldnt say Apple has caught up. They still have a ways to go but they got closer....til Googles next convention to show whats new this year.

I don't know about that to be honest , it depends on how the developers use the new APIs apple have developed , it could really push the swing in apples favour. I think apple is a head in terms of how they display notifations and not the quick reply and spot light . also how siri can control settings etc.

And I think Google is a head of customising your phone , the better ability to share files between apps and the files you can control etc.

But I think apple has finally caught up. Hopefully they introduce NFC, because I think NFC needs apple to become more successful.


I also think Google needs to catch up to apple in certain ways as well. They certainly need to take hang outs to the next level , the way android updates are provided which is still a long term problem which everyone agrees with , I had the note 3 ( I'm now on nexus 5) and it still didn't have kit kat in Australia and that was only 2 months ago.

Like wise I also think they need to release a media syncing software similar ( but obvouslt not as restricting ) as iTunes that allows you to back complete back ups of your phone and the ability to control your phone.

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What's there to worry. Most people i know are not using apple platform. So whatever further new proprietary integrations with ios8 has no advantage whatsoever.

I think most of the world are not so Mac crazy as the US or foolish enough to pay a premium for Apple products.

Unless apple opens up its proprietary system like Google or Microsoft otherwise there is nothing to worry.

I think you underestimate the world lol here in Australia everyone seems to have an iPhone. Although just looking around android phones like the HTC and nexus and galaxy series seems to be getting more popular. I would say that's because the premium price apple pays even though the hard ware etc seems to be lacking like screen size