HTC 10

[2298754]

Hyundai is branching off their Genesis luxury brand like Toyota did with Lexus a while back. While they may be competitive price-wise for the time being, you can bet that it'll go up in the not-too-distant future.

Well yes, I know that. It took Lexus over 20 years to charge Mercedes-Benz prices for their cars. They were always cheaper across the lineup.

Even using the Hyundai/Kia example, they still don't charge Toyota/Honda prices. They're getting close.

I still don't understand how HTC goes from being the leader of Android to becoming completely irrelevant. Their downfall is unbelievable. They just don't know how to run the company. This phone is the perfect example of that. You can't just charge $699 for it and expect S7 buyers to jump ship. Not happening.

Once pre-orders don't meet their unrealistic expectations, we will see a price drop soon.

EDIT: $100 off already. That was quick

 

[Surf Donkey]

I still don't understand how HTC goes from being the leader of Android to becoming completely irrelevant. Their downfall is unbelievable. They just don't know how to run the company. This phone is the perfect example of that. You can't just charge $699 for it and expect S7 buyers to jump ship. Not happening.

I posted a coupon, it is $599 now. With trade ins accepted, one year drop protection warranty, 12 months interest free financing, no contract, no bloat, no branding, unlocked. This not subsided by carriers at all with ads and bloatware like Samsung. Happy yet?

 

[2298754]

Are you are saying that HTC should use cheaper components and make the price lower?

What are you talking about? I never said they should use cheaper components.

The point I'm trying to get across (and you seem to have trouble grasping) is not to use cheaper components to bring the price down. One could easily argue that Hyundais/Kias are 99.9% as good as any Toyota/Honda, but they're not selling for the same price because of brand value.

Same thing applies here. The M10 might be every bit as good as the S7 (probably not, but I digress), but that doesn't mean HTC can ask S7 money for it. If they want to build the brand back up, they have to sell for less.

 

[Surf Donkey]

The M10 might be every bit as good as the S7 (probably not, but I digress), but that doesn't mean HTC can ask S7 money for it. If they want to build the brand back up, they have to sell for less.

Ah so lose money on the flagship phone. Yeah, sounds like you would fit right in as CEO driving HTC into the ground.

 

[2298754]

Ah so lose money on the flagship phone. Yeah, sounds like you would fit right in as CEO driving HTC into the ground.

Huh? Do you think it costs them $699 to produce?

You have no idea what you're talking about and don't seem to understand rudimentary economics.

This argument is a waste of my time. We are done here.

Good day.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Huh?

Do you think it costs them $699 to produce? Do you think it costs Apple $749/849/949 to make a 6S+? No. It costs significantly less. The rest is all profits.

You have no idea what you're talking about and fail to grasp basic economics.

This argument is a waste of my time. Done arguing with you. Good day.

I really am having a good day, thanks for mentioning it so many times.

Trust me, I grasp the concept perfectly. I have worked in this field for 20 years. Components for this phone are about $250-$275, the same as every other flagship with the same components. And you think that is the only cost? They don't have to pay the salary of every single person involved in making the phone, marketing budgets, FCC clearance, R&D, etc. You think the rest is all profits? I guarantee this cost is very close if not below the break even point. You are really the one wasting time here.

 

[tbayrgs]

Ah so lose money on the flagship phone. Yeah, sounds like you would fit right in as CEO driving HTC into the ground.

I very much doubt their cost/phone is anywhere near the price they're charging, considering the estimated costs for iPhone and Galaxies is somewhere between $200-300.

And AutoUnion's point is spot on. Brand does make a difference in what you can charge your customers. If Chevrolet made an identically special, top end car as Porsche or Ferrari, do you honestly think they could charge the exact same price and have it sell in any quantity similar to those marquee nameplates? Not a chance.

Same goes here...all things being equal, ask general consumers to choose between equally priced and spec'd HTC or Samsung, guess which one consumers will consider more often than not?

Look at Motorola's flagship...it's not priced anywhere near this level, and it still barely registers a blip on the sales radar.

HTC may want to compete at the high end but their brand does have the muscle to carry it at that price point after years of floundering. They need to make a serious splash if they hope to catch consumer's attention.

 

[epicrayban]

I very much doubt their cost/phone is anywhere near the price they're charging, considering the estimated costs for iPhone and Galaxies is somewhere between $200-300.

And AutoUnion's point is spot on. Brand does make a difference in what you can charge your customers. If Chevrolet made an identically special, top end car as Porsche or Ferrari, do you honestly think they could charge the exact same price and have it sell in any quantity similar to those marquee nameplates? Not a chance.

Same goes here...all things being equal, ask general consumers to choose between equally priced and spec'd HTC or Samsung, guess which one consumers will consider more often than not?

Look at Motorola's flagship...it's not priced anywhere near this level, and it still barely registers a blip on the sales radar.

HTC may want to compete at the high end but their brand does have the muscle to carry it at that price point after years of floundering. They need to make a serious splash if they hope to catch consumer's attention.

Yep. At this point in time, the HTC brand isn't exactly able to get away with this sort of pricing.

Who knows. We'll see. If the device ends up being very compelling (good reviews, etc.), it might work. But boy, is it a gamble for HTC. At a time where they can ill afford such a risk...

 

[Surf Donkey]

Yep. At this point in time, the HTC brand isn't exactly able to get away with this sort of pricing.

Who knows. We'll see. If the device ends up being very compelling (good reviews, etc.), it might work. But boy, is it a gamble for HTC...

And my point is, given the Apple and Samsung level of marketing they seem to be doing for this thing, they can't afford to sell it at a loss either.

 

[nfl46]

It looks like a cool device for $599. I'll be waiting a couple of months to snatch it up for $499 or below by a third party retailer.

 

[epicrayban]

And my point is, given the Apple and Samsung level of marketing they seem to be doing for this thing, they can't afford to sell it at a loss either.

Sure, I can understand that. How far from $699 would it be selling at a loss, though? Do we know yet at this point?

Personally, to compete, I think this device should be selling at $599. Then $649 for the larger storage version.
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It looks like a cool device for $599. I'll be waiting a couple of months to snatch it up for $499 or below by a third party retailer.

Yep. As Tbargys said... even if there's interest, I wouldn't buy on launch day or for the launch price. I'd wait a while for price drops.

I think $599 should have been the starting price, too.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Sure, I can understand that. How far from $699 would it be selling at a loss, though? Do we know yet at this point?

Personally, to compete, I think this device should be selling at $599. Then $649 for the larger storage version.

Well it is selling at $599 with a coupon right now. Honestly I think that is likely break even or a loss considering all operating expenses.

If they were Apple and new they would sell millions and millions of these things, perhaps then, they could cut the MSRP margin significantly and still get profit. But they know the market is shrinking, they know it won't sell crazy given the competition. The analysts have done their jobs.

So they could be like LG and make a turd that won't sell big. Tarnish they brand (HTC has first hand experience with this) Or they can at least put top notch components into the phone, get some buzz that HTC is back, and still not sell big. The common thread here is that selling big is really not an option.

But they are dying to keep the brand buzz going right now. They just got downgraded today for the VR ecosystem likely being a bust, the Vive won't make it. They just need some positive news for the brand that they can still make a killer spec'd phone.

 

[epicrayban]

Well it is selling at $599 with a coupon right now.

Ah, that's smart of them.

EDIT: Well, imagine if the reg price was $599 and the pre-order promo brought it down to $499! Heh.

 

[Surf Donkey]

And another thing.....Google/Nexus, Apple, Sasmung. All sell services pre-packaged on the phone. This has far less overhead on operating expenses and makes good profit. They want to get the hardware in your hands to get the services to supplement the prices. It seems HTC is cutting back from these even more, cutting out potential carriers subsidies, etc. This hurts long term profits and has to have an impact on asking price for the hardware.

 

[bchreng]

What are you talking about? I never said they should use cheaper components.

The point I'm trying to get across (and you seem to have trouble grasping) is not to use cheaper components to bring the price down. One could easily argue that Hyundais/Kias are 99.9% as good as any Toyota/Honda, but they're not selling for the same price because of brand value.

Same thing applies here. The M10 might be every bit as good as the S7 (probably not, but I digress), but that doesn't mean HTC can ask S7 money for it. If they want to build the brand back up, they have to sell for less.

It was probably a tough call for them to make. Price it low and hope to make it up in volume or price it around the same price as other flagships and hope to make it up selling what they can.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Ah, that's smart of them.

EDIT: Well, imagine if the reg price was $599 and the pre-order promo brought it down to $499! Heh.

Honestly I don't think it would sell much differently to do anything to HTC's bottom line. It would just make the Apple/Samsung fanatics feel better about paying that much more for their premium brand that is basically the same phone.

It is so funny here..... like how dare some other company try to price their phone close to our brand? Crazy. (not directed at you epicrayban)

 

[petvas]

I have been reading all day about the HTC 10 and have watched many hands on videos. My initial impressions are very positive, so I will start with the things I like the most:

• The design is great
• I like the new Sense UI
• BoomSound is still here and maybe even better than ever
• The Display seems to be very good.
• The camera seems to be great.
• The whole phone seems to be very fast and it offers a sleek design and performance

However, there are things I do not really like:

• I do not understand why HTC is not offering a silver version with black front. Why only in the US?
• Availability from mid May.. I had hoped for immediate availabilty.

I am not sure if it is worth it for me to upgrade from a Nexus 6P. If I sell my Nexus, I will get around 400€. I would need to pay around 300€ on top of that to get the HTC 10. I am sure the HTC 10 is not worth 300€ more than my Nexus, but knowing me, this is not very important

I really like HTC, its software and its great design. I like my Nexus 6P and the big display, but I will buy the HTC 10 as soon as it becomes available here in Germany, despite the fact that it is not worth it for people using a Nexus 6P. If you are coming from any other device, then the HTC 10 is clearly a winner.
I think I will get used to the smaller display. At least this is what I am hoping. I really like to support HTC and this time I have the feeling that HTC listened to the criticism, so I should support them with my wallet..

I just preordered the Carbon gray HTC 10. Now the waiting begins

 

[epicrayban]

Honestly I don't think it would sell much differently to do anything to HTC's bottom line. It would just make the Apple/Samsung fanatics feel better because they paid that much more for their brand that is basically the same phone.

It is so funny here..... like how dare some other company try to price their phone close to our brand? Crazy.

Um, I'm not sure where this came from. I don't know if our concerns about the high HTC price has to do with feeling better about our iPhone or Galaxy devices... That's some serious projecting there.

I think some of us are just concerned for HTC here...

 

[Surf Donkey]

Um, I'm not sure where this came from. I don't know if our concerns about the high HTC price has to do with feeling better about our iPhone or Galaxy devices... That's some serious projecting there.

I think some of us are just concerned for HTC here...

yeah I edited it... not directed at you. Those directed at have only one concern for HTC, and that is to see them go down. They just don't even want competition in the upper phone crust it seems. Seems typical elitist attitude which is common around an apple forum I guess.

Just seems crazy that no one even blinks at Apple or Samsung which arguably offer less for the same price, then think this phone should be $200 less just because.

 

[spinedoc77]

Hmm, it's a nicer looking phone than I anticipated. It looks a bit chunky though, how thick is it at its widest point? I get the feeling they did those kind of gaudy looking chamfers to hide the chunkiness. I really dig how there is no branding on the front, thank god someone else gets it that a nice clean non branded front looks sweet. The side bezels are a bit thick for what other flagships have in 2016 as well, but decent top/bottom bezels. 24bit dac nice, although the loss of stereo speakers sucks, guess you have to go the loser with huge headphones in the gym route.

For 699 with comparable specs to other flagships, and the HUGE fact that it's unlocked and untouched by carriers, it seems like a fair price. HTC may do ok with it, enough to keep afloat, or maybe not. I think it's main competition will be guys like the Moto X, which are usually very cheap, unlocked/uncarriered and better yet have vanilla android. Even though bypassing the carriers is a relief, you still haven't bypassed the manufacturer.

 

[Klyster]

Looks like a solid device, I hope it sells well.

 

[tbayrgs]

yeah I edited it... not directed at you. Those directed at have only one concern for HTC, and that is to see them go down. They just don't even want competition in the upper phone crust it seems. Seems typical elitist attitude which is common around an apple forum I guess.

Just seems crazy that no one even blinks at Apple or Samsung which arguably offer less for the same price, then think this phone should be $200 less just because.

I won't speak for AU but I think you're misinterpreting my comments. No where did I say the phone isn't worth the price--I previously mentioned how much I like the phone and that this would be my choice should I want to buy Android. There hasn't been a phone that had me consider using it instead of an iPhone is a long time. I personally would pay $699 for it.

The context of the conversation was whether it's priced right for HTC to be competitive, which IMO, they are not. If another second tier BRAND tried to sell a comparable product at this price point like Asus, Alcatel, Xiaomi, etc, I'd say the same thing. Consumers are willing to spend more for brands they consider to be of higher value. All things being equal, brand will be the differentiator and HTC is not the brand equal to Samsung, LG, or Apple.

And I'll contend that if they can't make this phone profitable at $700 (or more outside the US), their business model for it is hugely flawed and they shouldn't be selling it in the first place.

I genuinely hope I'm wrong as Android needs another successful manufacturer to push Samsung and I like HTC's hardware and design language.

 

[Surf Donkey]

The context of the conversation was whether it's priced right for HTC to be competitive, which IMO, they are not. If another second tier BRAND tried to sell a comparable product at this price point like Asus, Alcatel, Xiaomi, etc, I'd say the same thing. Consumers are willing to spend more for brands they consider to be of higher value. All things being equal, brand will be the differentiator and HTC is not the brand equal to Samsung, LG, or Apple.

Well sure, cut the price by 30%, you have to sell 30% more units to make up for it. Is that possible in this space? doubt it. I would expect HTC is not just going for a profit grab here.

So what should they do, sell at a loss just to push more units? Investors won't like that. They need to find the sweet spot and it will be difficult.

Perhaps you are right and HTC just needs to become a second tier brand. Perhaps they can't play with the big boys. But I just don't think it is possible to put out the same product for much less. And to suggest it just because they are not Samsung, LG, or Apple is just silly to me. What you want then is a second tier phone, but not the same phone at a lower price.

Look at what Google did with the Nexus 6P. No OIS, pretty questionable build quality, lower binned panels, not a great DAC, etc. They really had to scale back to make it cheaper by about $150 over the other flagships. They will probably do the same thing if HTC makes the Nexus this year. And even at that price, it really doesn't sell great because there are better spec'd devices out there for not much more.
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I'm feeling like based on the a9 precedent there is a shot it being fully supported on att

VoLTE will be supported:

https://twitter.com/urbanstrata/status/719935861819838466

 

[gotluck]

Good!!

 

[Fernandez21]

I don't think it's unreasonable for HTC to charge flagship money for a flagship phone. Going by Apple who makes 30% profit on the iPhone, that means these flagship phones cost around $500 to make when you take everything into account. So there's no way to expect them to take a loss especially when they don't have a way to makeup that loss elsewhere.