A. I’ve heard conflicting reports on Final Cut Pro exporting in the background, and V2 isn’t out yet. And I’m guessing the features you mentioned in other apps are likely not used all that much. Those features could be added to the iPad apps, and I would be happy with that, but then that’s just a matter of adding a few features here and there to the apps, not replacing iPadOS with macOS. B. Most of those features will likely be added as Apple continues to move their apps to Swift which will allow them to all share the same code base, and consequently the same features, just with different UI optimizations.
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I do not want macOS on iPad. Ever.
- Thread starter SanderEvers
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Exactly. 👍🏻. Dual booting doesn’t make much sense. The vast majority of people don’t dual boot two separate OSes on their devices, they just buy a computer that runs the OS they want. Which also leads back to the issue with some people who for whatever reason don’t want to buy a Mac to run macOS, but instead think they should buy an iPad to run macOS. It’s even in the name macOS is made for Macs, and iPadOS is made for iPads. They can share lots of features in common (just as other Apple OSes do), and I think that would be great if iPadOS and macOS shared more features and software in common. But that doesn’t mean you should run macOS on the iPad. The Mac isn’t dual booting with iPadOS.
Once again, you dont have to use it! I would love to carry one device, and be able to do more than Apple allows on iPad OS when I want to, and enjoy the ease of use of the touch interface of iPadOS when I want to.
We’d all have to suffer from the likely changes to macOS to make it more touch optimized, the lack of motivation to innovate with real native iPad apps, and several other problems that would likely create. Once again, these issues have already be talked about by the OP.
Anyone tried re-installing macOS on a MacBook Air M1 lately? I had to do that yesterday on my MacBook Air M1 and the whole process took three hours. Can you imagine having to reinstall everything on your iPad if it included macOS, you would have to be without your iPad for several hours.. not to mention having to set up both operating systems from scratch if an iCloud backup became corrupted. Speaking of iCloud backup, how much space on iCloud would be taken up if your iPad ran both iPadOS and macOS? I doubt Apple is going to give away iCloud+ space for free and I don’t feel like having to pay for one of the expensive tiers in iCloud+ simply because I own an iPad.
So just don’t use it.
It would be a dream come true for those of us that need it.
🤦♂️
No, but virtualization does.
We want something smaller and lighter, and we only want to carry one device. Is that so hard to understand?
I currently have two Linux virtual machines and three Windows virtual machines running on my Mac. There no good reasons not to be able to do the same on an iPad, including macOS, of course.
The interface wouldn’t be any worse than all the remote desktop apps that already exist for iPadOS, and everyone is fine with them.
🤷♂️
Nothing has to change to MacOS to run on the iPad! just allow people to run it on the same hardware that is in Macs, with a keyboard/mouse or touchpad.
And what happens when you take the iPad out of range of those peripherals? Keep in mind that that UI is going to have to change because of the ‘touch’ nature of an iPad screen. The UI elements need to be different sizes on an 13 inch MacBook screen than on a 13 inch iPad screen due to the nature of the digitizer.. if items are too small on a touchscreen then that increases the mistake of taping the wrong UI element.
If developers wanted to, they could provide VM apps for iPadOS. And before you say “but that would require JIT or Virtualization” no it doesn’t, UTM did it for several years until UTM decided to stop offering their app in the App Store. Would those things help, sure, but the OP already said that he thinks JIT access should be added to iPadOS. And I don’t have an issue with VM apps existing on iPadOS. In my opinion, A VM app wouldn’t have the same effects on the ecosystem as a native dual boot of macOS and iPadOS, or replacing iPadOS with macOS would.
Also, not to quibble, but the 13” iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard Case you’d need to effectively use macOS on the iPad would weight about exactly the same as a MacBook Air, and would also be about the same size.
Yes. It only took a few minutes.
So just don’t use it?
It only backs up app data, not system files.
You keep saying this but I bet it won’t work the way you think. So would I be able to buy a macOS/iPadOS iPad without the macOS code because I’ll never use that part? Would I end up paying a lower price due to the smaller code base and decreased storage? Can you imagine the uproar when people see the base price of that kind of iPad being somewhere around $2,500? You’re going to have to expect a huge increase in price with a device that can run both operating systems and have the functionality of both an iPad and a MacBook.
Saying “just don’t use it” only works when the manufacturer and the end-user are on the same page.
Also realize, the battery runtime would likely be horrendous. macOS is optimized for devices with a constant wall power connection, or with much larger battery capacities than what the iPad Pro has.
And macOS would likely change. If Apple were trying to set it up as an option to run on the iPad, they wouldn’t want to make it an awful experience for the iPad, so they’d have to choose between either changing macOS to better accommodate touch interactions, or making an iPad-specific version of macOS (with energy efficiency optimizations, better touch support, etc.), but then with the latter option, you’re already basically at what iPadOS is and can be. What’s wrong with just improving iPadOS, rather than trying to ramrod an OS that wasn’t designed for the iPad to be dual-booted onto the iPad?
No, not without jailbreak and/or sideloading.
First of all, of course I’d use the 11”, not the 13”. (After all, macOS was just fine on the 11” MacBook Air before it was taken from us.)
Secondly, practically any keyboard will work with an iPad, you are not restricted to the bulky and heavy Apple options.
Of course it would work the way I think.
You can buy a MacBook with a 256 GB drive and use it as you see fit.
I run several other operating systems besides macOS from my MacBook’s 4 TB drive, but my ability to do so does not affect you in the slightest.
Ah, I forgot about battery life.
Also, how would switching between the different operating systems work? Being that iPadOS is pretty much locked down, and macOS is much more open, wouldn’t this require a restart every time you wanted to switch between the two operating systems? That would seem like it would get old real fast.
Yes, without jailbreaking, and now only sideloading because UTM decided to go that route. They were in the App Store for years. UTM is even still available in a version that doesn’t require jailbreak. And again, it only requires sideloading now because UTM decided to stop distributing with the App Store and instead require sideloading. Other software could do the same thing UTM did, only offer them in the App Store. In fact, there is another VM software that looks like a copy of UTM that’s in the App Store. I think it’s called Merge or something. But I think the developer was asking some crazy price like $100, and it’s basically just modified UTM. So I wouldn’t recommend using it. But it proves that the concept is definitely possible right now, even without JIT and virtualization. Would it be better with JIT and virtualization? Sure. And I do think Apple should consider adding entitlements for these that thoroughly vetted and trusted developers can request access to.
I have used VNC a few times to access my Mac on my 11” iPad, and everything is incredibly tiny. It’s definitely not that great of an experience.
Apple’s keyboard case is actually less bulky and heavy than just about any third party keyboard + trackpad case, in fact, I am not aware of a single keyboard + trackpad case that is lighter or thinner than Apple’s.
Exactly. At this point, I really don’t see the point of not buying a MacBook.
You wouldn't.
Desktop virtualization - Wikipedia
There is no decision to be made, Apple simply does not allow it.
On top of that, Apple has entirely removed hypervisor support as of iOS/ipadOS 16.4.
I also prefer 2x5K@27". But guess what is also not a great experience? Carrying around more hardware than necessary. There is always a tradeoff, and for mobile computing I will choose small and light over a bigger screen every time. Again, I used an 11" MacBook Air exclusively for mobile computing for years, and it was fine. I use my 11" iPad Pro for remote desktop now, and it is fine.
Why would it need to be a case?
The Logitech Keys-To-Go is 180 grams, less than a third of the Magic Keyboard, and the Targus Ergonomic Foldable Keyboard is only 140 grams. If you want to go really extreme you can get a tiny rollable keyboard.
Personally, I always choose a mouse over a trackpad, so for me the integrated trackpad just adds weight, bulk and annoyance.
Also, besides the benefit of only needing one device, the whole point of using an iPad instead of a MacBook is the ergonomic benefits of having the keyboard detached from the device.
If Apple made a spiritual successor to the 12" PowerBook G4, 11" MacBook Air and 12" MacBook now that they have the chips to make such a device truly amazing, that is what I would use as my sole mobile device. However, I would lose the option to use an iPad as an iPad, which is what I would want to do most of the time, and that would suck. Being able to simply fire up macOS in a VM only when I need it would be so much better.
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There is decision to be made. Apple does allow it. As evidenced by the existence of such an app still in the App Store. There is nothing in the App Store guidelines forbidding any kind of VM-type software. This is why UTM was in the App Store for several years before they decided to stop distributing via the App Store, and this is why there’s currently an overpriced knockoff variant of it in the App Store. Apple doesn’t allow JIT or hypervisor access, but UTM didn’t require either of these (and still offers a version that doesn’t). And as I already said, I think Apple should add an entitlement that only very well vetted and trusted developers can request access to for access to JIT and Hypervisor. These are things I do not want all developers to necessarily have access to, because they could pose serious security risks to the system, but if they create an entitlement for accessing these things, then they can carefully vet and ensure that they’re being used in a secure way.You wouldn't.
Desktop virtualization - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
There is no decision to be made, Apple simply does not allow it.
On top of that, Apple has entirely removed hypervisor support as of iOS/ipadOS 16.4.
I also prefer 2x5K@27". But guess what is also not a great experience? Carrying around more hardware than necessary. There is always a tradeoff, and for mobile computing I will choose small and light over a bigger screen every time. Again, I used an 11" MacBook Air exclusively for mobile computing for years, and it was fine. I use my 11" iPad Pro for remote desktop now, and it is fine.
Why would it need to be a case?
The Logitech Keys-To-Go is 180 grams, less than a third of the Magic Keyboard, and the Targus Ergonomic Foldable Keyboard is only 140 grams. If you want to go really extreme you can get a tiny rollable keyboard.
Personally, I always choose a mouse over a trackpad, so for me the integrated trackpad just adds weight, bulk and annoyance.
Also, besides the benefit of only needing one device, the whole point of using an iPad instead of a MacBook is the ergonomic benefits of having the keyboard detached from the device.
If Apple made a spiritual successor to the 12" PowerBook G4, 11" MacBook Air and 12" MacBook now that they have the chips to make such a device truly amazing, that is what I would use as my sole mobile device. However, I would lose the option to use an iPad as an iPad, which is what I would want to do most of the time, and that would suck. Being able to simply fire up macOS in a VM only when I need it would be so much better.
Why should giving up on improving iPadOS and just slapping macOS onto iPads be the answer, rather than just continuing to improve iPadOS? With iPadOS, we’re most of the way there. Developers like UTM could bring their VM apps to the App Store, and then you’d have your option and you’d be happy. And if JIT/Hypervisor entitlements were added for trusted and vetted developers (such as Parallels Desktop and such) they could release faster VM apps that could do what you want to do without giving up on iPadOS, or hurting iPad users. Dual booting iPads with iPadOS and macOS would be harmful to iPadOS IMO, because that would basically signal that Apple had given up on improving iPadOS, which is what most of us iPad users would rather see, not macOS on the iPad.
Just saying, a separate mouse is definitely bulkier and thicker than Apple’s keyboard cases. And I don’t think you’ll really have any kind of weight savings by doing things that way vs Apple’s keyboard cases. But if that’s what you prefer, that’s ok.
I don’t see how the 13” MacBook Air isn’t a portable enough laptop, but that aside, I also don’t see how shoehorning macOS onto iPads is a better solution than just improving iPadOS, and perhaps even making a smaller MacBook.
Where? I cannot find any reference to any such app, and I cannot find anything indicating any such app was ever allowed in the Apple iOS App Store.
Good luck getting past 2.5.2.
App Review Guidelines - Apple Developer
The App Review Guidelines provide guidance and examples across a range of development topics, including user interface design, functionality, content, and the use of specific technologies. These guidelines are designed to help you prepare your apps for the approval process.
If I follow the download link from https://mvm.mergesoftcorp.com I get "this app is currently not available in your country or region", so I cannot tell what that is.
Of course iPadOS should continue to improve. However, at the current rate we're more likely to see the end of time before the basics are covered, by both Apple and app developers.
I can't believe I am arguing this.
I would use a mouse regardless, so ANY trackpad is wasted weight/space.
| Device Configuration | Weight |
|---|---|
| Apple MacBook Air 13" + Apple Magic Mouse | 1240 + 99 = 1339 grams |
| Apple iPad Air 11" cellular + Targus Keyboard + Apple Magic Mouse | 446 + 140 + 99 = 685 grams |
Even excluding the mouse from the MacBook configuration the weight of the iPad is still about half.
Strange how different people have different use cases, no?
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A. UTM was on the App Store for several years. You can find many reviews of it from that time period. It’s well documented. So clearly UTM didn’t need to violate any App Store guidelines to obtain these results.Where? I cannot find any reference to any such app, and I cannot find anything indicating any such app was ever allowed in the Apple iOS App Store.
Good luck getting past 2.5.2.
App Review Guidelines - Apple Developer
The App Review Guidelines provide guidance and examples across a range of development topics, including user interface design, functionality, content, and the use of specific technologies. These guidelines are designed to help you prepare your apps for the approval process.developer.apple.com
If I follow the download link from https://mvm.mergesoftcorp.com I get "this app is currently not available in your country or region", so I cannot tell what that is.
Of course iPadOS should continue to improve. However, at the current rate we're more likely to see the end of time before the basics are covered, by both Apple and app developers.
I can't believe I am arguing this.
I would use a mouse regardless, so ANY trackpad is wasted weight/space.
Device Configuration Weight Apple MacBook Air 13" + Apple Magic Mouse 1240 + 99 = 1339 grams Apple iPad Air 11" cellular + Targus Keyboard + Apple Magic Mouse 446 + 140 + 99 = 685 grams
Even excluding the mouse from the MacBook configuration the weight of the iPad is still about half.
Strange how different people have different use cases, no?
B. I already said Apple could add entitlements that thoroughly vetted and trusted developers could access for JIT and Hypervisor access. Why are we still on this point?
C. I think that’s quite the exaggeration. iPadOS is still relatively new, only on it’s fourth version, and already in that time it’s made massive leaps and bounds such as multi-windowing, macOS DriverKit support, external drive support, loads of improvements to the Files app, etc. I think it’s a matter of perspective. And for your solution, adding Hypervisor and JIT entitlements would allow you to do what you want without compromising iPadOS or macOS. Why not just do that (also an improvement to iPadOS) rather than chuck out the baby with the bathwater and try to dual boot macOS on devices not designed for it? That goes against Apple’s design philosophy anyways. They create separate OS optimizations for different hardware for good reason. You don’t see Macs dual-booting with iPadOS…
D. And I am not saying you shouldn’t use the mouse keyboard setup you want to use. I am merely pointing out the fact that it is not lighter, or if it is, not by much, than using an 11” iPad with the Magic Keyboard Case. I carry an M1 11” iPad Pro every day in the older and heavier keyboard case, and it’s extremely light and portable.
E. I didn’t say you had to like the 13” MacBook Air, I was merely stating that I personally don’t understand it.
Since Apple makes a generous profit solely from selling storage options at outrageous prices this argument might be a driver to consider this offering even stronger.
In your scenario being able to boot into another os for backup purposes might be a good benefit. The macOS install process could be done by a native app in the background potentially too. Lastly the backup space required on iCloud does not differ from a use case where the user has both devices. In addition, iCloud backups don’t include the macOS system files but focus on user data just like the iOS backups do for iCloud.
If it is so well-documented I am sure you wouldn't mind linking to a few.
The iPad has been around for a decade and a half. Surely that is what matters, not how long the operating system has been called iPadOS?
A. It is, and you can look all that stuff up if you want. It was several years ago now, so it’s not going to be in top search results, and will require more time and sifting through stuff than I care to spend on it as I have other things to do, and have already seen all that stuff. Besides, there is the current paid for knockoff of it on the App Store, so clearly the concept works. Also, iSH is another similar system, only for Linux. And besides, I’ve already said that iPadOS could improve by providing entitlements to thoroughly vetted and trusted developers so they could more easily port over macOS VM apps like Parallels Desktop. I don’t see why we’re still arguing on this point, because I already said that could be a way iPadOS could improve, rather than giving up on it and dual-booting macOS, which is a worse solution on multiple levels in my opinion.
B. The iPad only got its own separate OS 4 years ago. Before it was more restricted by the limits of the iPhone. Now, with its own separate OS, it is gaining far more functionality than it previously had, including lots of macOS features. And since we’re talking about whether it would be better to simply improve iPadOS, or try to shoehorn macOS onto the iPad and basically give up on giving iPadOS more macOS features (why would Apple bother if they dual-booted macOS onto iPads?), the fact that iPadOS is a relatively very young system that has already made several major leaps and bounds toward macOS level functionality in the past four years is very relevant. We’re talking about the growth of iPadOS, not iOS which was always more limited because it had to run on the iPhone as well.