Well even easier, if Apple was able to sell a macOS license, even if it cost say $500 but will work on any PC type hardware, their device sales will collapse in an instant.
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I have #MacBookFear
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Well even easier, if Apple was able to sell a macOS license, even if it cost say $500 but will work on any PC type hardware, their device sales will collapse in an instant.
Jeez, reading through this thread makes me glad I jumped on a $500 base tier MBP 13" 2015 model. Just need to upgrade the 128 GB SSD to a 512 GB SSD and it should be smooth sailing...
What's next, is Apple going to be vilified b/c they won't pimp out their OS for use on non-Apple hardware??? That's going a little overboard, no?
no offense to anyone but, uhh, that's entitlement at its finest...
no offense to anyone but, uhh, that's entitlement at its finest...
I think the point flew past you fast enough that you missed it.
If any of the Surface products fail, Microsoft simply gives you another one. They don't rip it apart and then glue it back together and hand it to you. If it fails out of warranty they will offer you a refurb at about $600 to $800 or trade it in. I use Surface products and I want into that with my eyes wide open. I have Surface Book, Surface Laptop, Surface Pro, and Surface 3... Did I leave anything out? All working 100%. I am a graphic artist and the Surface line was a dream come true for me.
There are plenty of Apple owners who can same as you, having a whole slew of Apple products with no issues and completely satisfied with their service, just as I am sure there are plenty of Surface users out there frustrated with issues they have experienced.
Surface products are also generally (I said generally) less expensive, so it’s more reasonable for them to just swap out the computer instead of replacing parts.
Also remember, Microsoft’s focus and profits come from their software and services compared to the computer/tablet lineup, whereas Apple makes money off hardware not software when it comes to the Mac/iPad lineups. They have more incentive to repair your machine, rather than straight out replace it, because it costs them more on their primary profit line of said hardware.
Not excusing how Apple goes about fixing/replacing their machines, but just saying that it’s not completely Apples to Apples you are comparing.
Don't feed the troll. He is a brand new member and of his 27 posts, 20+ are in the "I hate Apple" threads. He is just trying to stir the pot.
I am sure there are many happy Apple users. I am very happy with my Apple products. I have MacBook 2012, Mac Air 2017, (I gave to my niece) iPad pro 12.9 and iPad air 2. I am having a wonderful time with all of them. The point now is that Apple seems to have lost the plot in some ways. I don't know if that is the fault of Tim Cook or what. But my observations of what is going on at Apple are a bit disturbing. I mean, why not just go back to the old keyboard, or try something else? The T2 chip issues, why even use it? They are not selling to the Pentagon. The Pentagon buys Windows and if Microsoft's encryption is good enough for them (and I am sure they have their own third party solutions). Why does Apple have to force these issues onto their users?
The bending iPad well it happens and I can see that as a mistake. But to double down on these keyboards and glue things together that are prone to breaking and then rip it up to actually repair it? None of it works for me at this time.
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You know I haven't done anything to you and I see no reason for you to make a personal attack at me. I have actually posted in other threads, and I have used this site sometime for information. I just recently decided to join since I enjoy many of the users here (Queen, Fisherrnman, etc). And if not saying Apple is the most wonderful company in the world and everything they do is wonderful, makes me a "troll". Then so be it. I have used just about every operating system there is going all the way back to OS2 Warp and the B OS. That was on Apple computers during Scully's time. I love electronics, Audio, Video, and I really love computers. And I try some of everything.... By the way, my gender is female so you can at least refer to me as she, when you throw shade.
Less expensive to the consumer generally, but are you suggesting a MacBook costs more to make than an equivalent surface book?
i agree, i returned my 2018 and bought a 2017, zero issues. glad it doesnt have the T2 chip
I don’t have exact numbers to support my statement, but assuming margins are alike, and build materials and parts used in a each computer, the surface lineup is going to be cheaper at cost prices compared to Apple products.
This is just my opinion though so take it for what you will.
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I have to agree with the point you make about them not going back or switching to designs that don’t have issues, such as the keyboard. For some reason they seem set on only using the current design until the next major redesign in 4-5 years from the last redesign.
To me it would make more since to go back to the drawing boards and start up a new redesign after the second generation of keyboards had the issue, with a target launch of 2018-19 at the latest, but we know we won’t see a redesign with a better keyboard until after that at Apple.
Certainly there are things that can be done better, my main point was that every computer line has its issues, whether it’s Lenovo, Apple, Dell, or even Surface.
@The_Joker13 Well do you have any evidence to the contrary? I am sorry but these forums aren’t scientific journals, I am basing this off of past experience in retail and the margin basis of retail products. Margins on most products are about the same, typically 30-40% on most high ticket items including computers, unless they are on sale. Thus if an item is priced lower for the consumer, (excluding sale prices) it’s reasonable to assume that the cost is lower as well.
So no I don’t have intimate knowledge of the costs of all the Surface and Apple products, but there is logic in the way pricing models work in retail.
But there is no need to be snarky and sarcastic about my opinion. If you want to give reasons and legitimate proof that I’m wrong then be my guest, I’ll listen and gladly accept if I am wrong.
So no I don’t have intimate knowledge of the costs of all the Surface and Apple products, but there is logic in the way pricing models work in retail.
But there is no need to be snarky and sarcastic about my opinion. If you want to give reasons and legitimate proof that I’m wrong then be my guest, I’ll listen and gladly accept if I am wrong.
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I am not sure the margins are like for the Surface. As recently as 2014, Microsoft was actually losing money on each Surface device sold and had lost $1.7 billion on the Surface to that point. There was some speculation that Microsoft would cease production of them. I believe that they are selling better now, perhaps evidenced by their growing lineup, new colors etc. But I don't know if there is any reason to believe they cost significantly less than a similar Apple device to produce, perhaps in the case of the Surface Book 2, the cost is even more due to the 2-1 nature, dual batteries, etc.
Like you, I don't have a hard figure on the build costs of either, but I am guessing they aren't far apart. Magnesium Alloy used in Surface is I believe quite a bit more expensive than Aluminum Alloy for one. But you could probably go back and forth where one uses more expensive components here and cheaper ones there.
Oh don't get me started on Dell. I like them and I am rooting for them as they have gone private, but they too in the past have been sued for some of their practices surrounding their financing. In addition I have a little Alienware Alpha that gets stuck on boot. Half the time when I restart it, it goes into a coma. I have to resort to opening it up (It is easy to open thank God) and move the password jumper to reset it. Then it boots into Windows. Dell continues to play dumb, and perhaps they have fixed in in the next gen. Who knows? Other than that it is a great machine, but my next game console will come from MSI or Cyberpower.
Ah, that is actually interesting, I didn’t know they were being sold at a loss (not your typical successful business model, lol), but I could see the possibility then of the costs not being that different. And I didn’t really consider the aspect of dual batteries and such, which like you said would drive the costs up.
We don’t know the actual numbers but you make some good points.
Having said that, I’ve never been a fan of the Surfaces personally either so I may have a small bias on that matter. I have coworkers who have complained about the ones issued to them in the field, and I have never been overly fond of the aesthetics. If I were to go Windows it’s be a Lenovo or Dell for me.
The lost money was the R and D that went into them, and so counted as a loss at the start. Since Microsoft had made over 5 billion on the Surface products.
I will likely build my own personal desktop for my next computer as my heavy lifter, one that I can put together and determine the parts on, and can easily repair if need be.
It seems to be that more and more laptops are going smaller at the expense of true repairibility and upgrade options. And when issues to come up they are absurdly expensive to fix. Apple and other major players are all offenders of this trend.
I’ll still keep a MacBook Pro or like machine for more mobility, but I think a custom desktop is the direction I’m going in the future.
Yeah. Microsoft claims it is an important line for them and PC World in January 2019 claims Surface sales have soared to nearly $2 billion, but it was a rough start for them for sure. Kind of seemed a bit like the Spotify model (I still believe they have yet to turn a profit) to begin with. But it is such a small part of Microsoft's revenue. Obviously a much smaller part of their revenue than even Apples 9% on Mac sales.
Personally, I really enjoy my Surface Pro and would absolutely buy another. I might be tempted by a Surface Book 3 down the road if Microsoft *finally* adopts TB3. But who knows. I like both sides of the fence and am really tempted to pick up a Linux system from System 76 as well and learning more about Linux. Maybe next year.
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I think Microsoft was bound and determined to make the Surface line work after failures of some of their devices such as the phone line. I think they were going to stick with Surface come hell or high water. I am glad they have turned it around. I really do enjoy my Surface Pro. My wife really likes it as well and wants one of her own. So we may have 2 in the house soon. I recall seeing rumors back in 2016 that Microsoft might pull the plug on the Surface line in 2019, but they denied the rumors and claimed it was full speed ahead. Seems they were being honest.
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This would likely bankrupt Apple. They have gotten as close to this as you can get with their OS now running on Intel and being based on BSD (allowing it to end up on hackintosh machines), but you won't see them officially push their software on third party devices as macOS and iOS are very much their competitive differentiators. They learned the lessons in the 90s to focus on their strengths.
You can also see their slow walks down more custom Apple silicone in the T2 and etc that they are making it harder and not easier to ever allow us a move...
Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I very much still miss BeOS!
For something interesting to try. Give Elementary OS a shot. It is the Unix variant that MacOS was based on. Just do a search for it. I run it myself in a VM and really enjoy it. It is the best way to get the Mac experience on non Mac hardware and in a VM.
I have heard Elementary is very MacOS inspired, also Deepin? I may have a look at those two in the near future.