I have #MacBookFear

[maflynn]

Why don't you just say you got it on sale?

It didn't occur to me, and I wasn't trying to deceive. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It is no secret that Lenovo ran deep discounts around the holidays.

I didn't buy it around the holidays and It's also not a secret that Lenovo constantly runs sales. They seem to be always running a 20 to 30% discount. They're running a 25% discount now (on the t-series).

 

[Webster's Mac]

That's true, and most of the PC industry is moving that way. The Surface line is completely not repairable. I believe the XPS 13 is similar. Not sure on the XPS 15. The Thinkpad line is repairable, and one of its hallmarks. It will likely end up being the last repairable laptop. It is frustrating that is the case, but I don't see what could be done to stem that tide. It isn't just Apple going that direction.

The Surface laptops are the only laptops that are glued/soldered together like MacBooks. Other laptops may have soldered ram, but they generally still have replaceable drives and other components. And keyboard parts are much cheaper and individual keys can be replaced. But serviceability is a hallmark of the Thinkpad line and i’m grateful for it.

 

[Cashmonee]

The Surface laptops are the only laptops that are glued/soldered together like MacBooks. Other laptops may have soldered ram, but they generally still have replaceable drives and other components. And keyboard parts are much cheaper and individual keys can be replaced. But serviceability is a hallmark of the Thinkpad line and i’m grateful for it.

You're right. And it is ridiculous. I have heard that manufacturing it that way can lead to a more reliable unit, but even if that is true, when something goes wrong you essentially have to replace half the computer. I

 

[Webster's Mac]

You're right. And it is ridiculous. I have heard that manufacturing it that way can lead to a more reliable unit, but even if that is true, when something goes wrong you essentially have to replace half the computer. I

Apple has been going that direction more recently and their reliability hasn’t gone up. It’s gone down. Plus it made repairs more expensive. Quality components make a more reliable unit. Always. Proper cooling, good quality components, and taking care of a device will 99% of the time lead to a machine that will give you many years of issue-free service. And adding in spill resistance (like Thinkpads) increases it even more.

 

[Cashmonee]

Apple has been going that direction more recently and their reliability hasn’t gone up. It’s gone down. Plus it made repairs more expensive. Quality components make a more reliable unit. Always. Proper cooling, good quality components, and taking care of a device will 99% of the time lead to a machine that will give you many years of issue-free service. And adding in spill resistance (like Thinkpads) increases it even more.

I agree Apple has been moving this way. I disagree the reliability has reduced. The only data available actually shows reliability is the same or better since 2016.

 

[SDColorado]

It didn't occur to me, and I wasn't trying to deceive. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I didn't buy it around the holidays and It's also not a secret that Lenovo constantly runs sales. They seem to be always running a 20 to 30% discount. They're running a 25% discount now (on the t-series).

My post #199, got buried back there a little, but that THINKSPECIAL code resulted in a 30% discount on the X1 Extreme I added to the cart to test.

 

[Cashmonee]

My post #199, got buried back there a little, but that THINKSPECIAL code resulted in a 30% discount on the X1 Extreme I added to the cart to test.

And that is totally fair. I am just saying as a staff member and moderator for the site he should know better and disclose that.

 

[SDColorado]

And that is totally fair. I am just saying as a staff member and moderator for the site he should know better and disclose that.

As he mentioned, I don't think there was any intent to deceive. People who are familiar with Lenovo know that nobody pays full price. Sort of like buying a car, where everyone discusses OTD (Out The Door) prices. So you don't even really think about what they list as "msrp."

 

[Cashmonee]

As he mentioned, I don't think there was any intent to deceive. People who are familiar with Lenovo know that nobody pays full price. Sort of like buying a car. So you don't even really think about what they list as "msrp."

Ok.

 

[fokmik]

It didn't occur to me, and I wasn't trying to deceive. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I didn't buy it around the holidays and It's also not a secret that Lenovo constantly runs sales. They seem to be always running a 20 to 30% discount. They're running a 25% discount now (on the t-series).

You have Lenovo now? what happen with your 2-3 month old 15" MBP 2018 ?

 

[dspdoc]

The list of potential issues and QC has most definitely made me steer clear. Sad.

 

[Thysanoptera]

As he mentioned, I don't think there was any intent to deceive. People who are familiar with Lenovo know that nobody pays full price. Sort of like buying a car, where everyone discusses OTD (Out The Door) prices. So you don't even really think about what they list as "msrp."

True story - when I moved to USA I went straight from DMV to car dealer, wearing same shirt as on ID, wrote a check for full MSRP and drove home in the new ride. The sales guy had a sort of disbelief expression on his face during the whole process. Only later I realized that car buying is a little different in the states as compared to Europe.

 

[bjwhite3114]

I'm using a 2011 15" MBP and have had no problems, and it's still really fast and enjoyable to use. I've been eyeing the latest MBPs, but can't take the risk -- especially with the high prices. I will wait for 2019. (sigh).
I would also like to upgrade my phone and iPad, but my older stuff is still running well and I just can't justify the expense. If money weren't a concern, that would help...

 

[SDColorado]

True story - when I moved to USA I went straight from DMV to car dealer, wearing same shirt as on ID, wrote a check for full MSRP and drove home in the new ride. The sales guy had a sort of disbelief expression on his face during the whole process. Only later I realized that car buying is a little different in the states as compared to Europe.

On the bright side, I am sure you made his day!

By the same token Lenovo always has a series of rotating eCoupon codes. Try them and wait for the 30%, it will eventually roll around.

 

[Thysanoptera]

On the bright side, I am sure you made his day!

By the same token Lenovo always has a series of rotating eCoupon codes. Try them and wait for the 30%, it will eventually roll around.

I was actually happy because the car was like 40% cheaper than exactly same model in Europe at that time. So I felt sorry for the sales guy while he expanded his repertoire of polack jokes.
But I guess the same applies for somebody who was always buying from Apple store, he sees the regular price on Lenovo or Dell website and thinks that’s the price to pay. But you have just to wait, search the web for coupons or call them and request price drop.

 

[SDColorado]

I was actually happy because the car was like 40% cheaper than exactly same model in Europe at that time. So I felt sorry for the sales guy while he expanded his repertoire of polack jokes.
But I guess the same applies for somebody who was always buying from Apple store, he sees the regular price on Lenovo or Dell website and thinks that’s the price to pay. But you have just to wait, search the web for coupons or call them and request price drop.

Discounted pricing is just not something Apple is known for. Never has been. It was a part of the dispute they had with Costco back in 2010. Apple wouldn't let them sell products through their online store, wouldn't let Costo offer more than slight discounts on iPods and iTunes cards, a couple other pricing disputes. They came to an agreement and Costco later resumed sales. But you will never see the Lenovo type eCoupon sales. I am sure Lenovo can do it in part because of the volume of computers they sell. Last year Lenovo had 22.5% of Worldwide Computer Sales vs Apple's 6.9%.

 

[LeeW]

The pricing is outrageous. Lets compare apples to apples.
Lenovo Thinkpad X1E $2,376
Apple MacBook Pro: 4,328.

Would you have paid it if the MBP didn't have the issues that made you walk away from it?

always running a 20 to 30% discount. They're running a 25% discount now (on the t-series).

So, in essence, it's over-priced at the ticket amount or they need the deep discounts to sell them in the numbers required to hit the profits target.

Not being combative here, just observing.

 

[iMacedonian]

Thanks to this forum I will not be getting a MBP with butterfly keyboard, I'll probably wait for the 2019 model and if keyboard's improved I'll buy it, otherwise I'll just get the 2015 MBP.

 

[LeeW]

Thanks to this forum I will not be getting a MBP with butterfly keyboard, I'll probably wait for the 2019 model and if keyboard's improved I'll buy it, otherwise I'll just get the 2015 MBP.

Out of curiosity, you don't have a Macbook then? When did you last have one?

 

[SDColorado]

Would you have paid it if the MBP didn't have the issues that made you walk away from it?



So, in essence, it's over-priced at the ticket amount or they need the deep discounts to sell them in the numbers required to hit the profits target.

Not being combative here, just observing.

That is definitely a leap. More likely, since Apple has no competition for MacOS based computers, they are able to sacrifice some market share to maintain higher margins per sale. Lenovo, on the other hand, has ever-increased competition for Windows-based computers and takes the volume sales at a lower profit margin approach.

 

[jmoore5196]

Thanks to this forum I will not be getting a MBP with butterfly keyboard, I'll probably wait for the 2019 model and if keyboard's improved I'll buy it, otherwise I'll just get the 2015 MBP.

I won’t argue with your decision, but what do you realistically expect will change by WWDC? Are you honestly expecting a new keyboard design or an engineering fix for the display cable woes?

I’m ready to replace my 2014 5K iMac with a 2018 15” MacBook Pro, and my current 2016 15” has been flawless thus far.

Having owned at least one of every Apple laptop iteration since the PowerBook 100, I confess I’ve yet to see a generation without faults. My point is that those waiting for 2019 improvements will likely be waiting some time.

 

[iMacedonian]

Out of curiosity, you don't have a Macbook then? When did you last have one?

Never had a Macbook before, I was really looking forward to getting the MBP 2018 until I read about all the doom and gloom issues with the keyboard.

 

[MerlinX10]

I would only recommend this if you can get a really good deal on one. At this point I would not pay more than maybe 60-70% of the cost of a new 15" for a 2015 with a dGPU (~$1500). Apple currently wants $1700 for a refurb with and Iris Pro for graphics. That is too high for what is nearly 4-year old hardware.

Agree on both points. The 2015 is a great laptop and preferable over the new models IMHO, and Apple charges way too much for it. They're making the same mistakes as with the 2013 Mac Pro (Darth Pro). Still selling (way) too old things at far too high of a price... and here's the kicker... with no good alternative. Apple really needs to pivot back into good, solid, up-to-date hardware with a keyboard everyone thinks is great and a no-compromise GPU. Still waiting.. until then I've been using a nice and powerful Alienware laptop and am slowly being sucked into a Win10 workflow (and would far prefer a MacOS workflow.)

 

[LeeW]

That is definitely a leap. More likely, since Apple has no competition for MacOS based computers, they are able to sacrifice some market share to maintain higher margins per sale. Lenovo, on the other hand, has ever-increased competition for Windows-based computers and takes the volume sales at a lower profit margin approach.

Oh there is no doubt that Apple sacrifices market share, but the two questions were not connected.

My thoughts on Lenovo were simply that if they can offer up 20-30% discounts 'all the time' they are over-priced in the eyes of their target market and can't hit the sales numbers required. They must have better than discount mark-up or are selling close to loss.

More interesting than making any real point.

 

[SDColorado]

Oh there is no doubt that Apple sacrifices market share, but the two questions were not connected.

My thoughts on Lenovo were simply that if they can offer up 20-30% discounts 'all the time' they are over-priced in the eyes of their target market and can't hit the sales numbers required. They must have better than discount mark-up or are selling close to loss.

More interesting than making any real point.

It is an interesting discussion and Lenovo has an interesting philosophy regarding their use of promotions. They claim that through Promotions they can increase awareness, brand building, targeting customers, etc. and if priced to low they will risk a drop in brand image and positioning and if priced to high they will lose customers to Dell, HP, Asus, Acer, MSI and others.

Apple is in a unique position with no competitors in the MacOS market. They can maintain whatever price they wish to maintain brand image and positioning without fear of losing customers to another MacOS competitor. I wonder how Apple computers would be priced and marketed if there were dozens of other manufacturers selling MacOS based laptops? Would they have sales? promotions? eCoupons? We will never know.