I have #MacBookFear

[SDColorado]

The fact that Apple even modified the keyboard at all shows that they were listening to complaints. Complaining has negative connotations of being self-serving, only a means of venting and taking no action, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If there's a problem with an Apple device, then attention should be drawn to it. Sometimes they listen and attempt to fix the issue (see the Gen3 butterfly keyboard, which I think is a major improvement over the first two). Part of the reason I brought attention to the flickering issue in the Vega MBP was in hope that Apple would get wind of it and come up with a fix for it. If everyone stayed quiet about it and had no regard for any computer other than their own, how would Apple even know there's an issue? It needs attention to get a fix and complaints are a means of getting that attention.

I would add that in addition to a user posting about any issues they encounter here, please DO also leave Apple feedback on their own site HERE as well. This feedback purportedly goes directly to the team responsible for that issue. Or at least that is what Executive Relations has told me.

 

[LeeW]

This thread is turning out like a discussion with my wife, I come here to escape that

At the end of the day, @revmacian was happy with his research and happier with his device. He knows the risks and issues is comfortable with them. Some of his points are good ones that can be summed up with buy or don't buy, the choice is yours.

Of course, I appreciate the disappointment out there, people really want to buy a MBP but don't feel comfortable given the issues with the keyboard, the screen or whatever. Discussions like these give the issues the airtime required for Apple to stop and think, that is important.

Don't be consumed by it though, it just stops you being productive/creative.

 

[revmacian]

This thread is turning out like a discussion with my wife, I come here to escape that

At the end of the day, @revmacian was happy with his research and happier with his device. He knows the risks and issues is comfortable with them. Some of his points are good ones that can be summed up with buy or don't buy, the choice is yours.

Of course, I appreciate the disappointment out there, people really want to buy a MBP but don't feel comfortable given the issues with the keyboard, the screen or whatever. Discussions like these give the issues the airtime required for Apple to stop and think, that is important.

Don't be consumed by it though, it just stops you being productive/creative.

Exactly, and individual happiness is all that matters.

So, everyone.. go and do what you need to do for your happiness to continue. Which is actually what I’ve been saying all along.. promoting happiness and contentment instead of worry and fear.

 

[Queen6]

Bottom line is Apple is failing to deliver, therefore users are well within their rights to complain. As individuals and or company's they should and must highlight such deficiencies, as frankly they are only escalating in time.

All this negativity serves no purpose is laughable at best, questionable at worse. The onus of usability & reliability firmly sits with Apple no other entity or individual, anyone thinking different is simply deluded or worse still...

Q-6

 

[Mendota]

Discuss.. yes, perfectly acceptable. Complaining, we need to ask ourselves how much complaining will solve the issue. Discussing and complaining are, in my opinion, two different things - one is productive, the other is not.

Discussing: State your claims. If the other party won't listen then it's time to learn, adapt and move on. This is productive.

Complaining: State your claims.. over and over and over and over... This is a waste of resources.

As far as dealing with the issue, how do some folks deal with the issue.. discuss or complain? Those two methods of dealing with the issue will yield very different results.


I'm not interested in what Apple says, this is why we do extensive research. Anyone can talk the talk, not everyone can walk the walk.


I'm not interested in finding fault or placing blame. When a product fails I'm interested in resolving the problem and that means either replacing the tool or finding another way to get the work done.

Some people like to play the victim because there is some satisfaction to be gained. When someone finds satisfaction in something, do they not continue doing it? Even if it inhibits their ability to learn, adapt and move on?

Complaining works quite well. If everyone just accepted things as they were and went along with companies mistreating them then nothing would change. It is the complaints about the keyboard that forced Apple to address the issue. We have yet to determine how successful their resolution might be. And lets not forget those class action lawsuits that forced them to fix their issues. The bottom line is that you have drunk the Apple Kool-Aid and you are upset that others don't share your view. You have resorted to name calling, and insults (and please with the pretense of it was what you heard not what I said).

The name of the thread is: Has anyone else jumped ship? All you had to say is no, and these are my reasons. Instead you seem bent on telling others why they are wrong.

 

[Geert76]

the deeper you go into research the macrumors forums or Reddit when planning to buy a Mac (Macbook), you start to almost become depressive and start to think that nearly all MacBooks (2016/2017/2018) are crap and Windows laptops are some sort of Holy Grail nowadays.

And then I step out of the numerous of Mac related topics in the macrumors forums and/or Reddit and I start to search for positive reviews of real users and see that the percentage of happy-unhappy customers are nearly the same.

Also, dozens of collegues and friends/family relatives are (still) happy with their 2016/2017/2018 Macbooks. These same people don't even read macrumors and/or Reddit (okay, maybe some of them)

Then you start to search for alternatives to a Macbook and tadaaa! you'll find as many as complaining and happy users of people using Windows laptop/pc's.

But to give the OP my answer to my question:

With Apples ridiculous (!!) price strategy the last 2 years I have decided to buy good, in new state, second handed Macbook (first inspection by myself ofcourse) and have saved at least a 400-550 euros, each time, compared to buying an brand new MacBook.
Simply because I refuse to pay €1800+ for a Mac.

And still enjoy the Apple ecosystem with the rest of my Apple devices I am using.

#teamNoFear

 

[revmacian]

the deeper you go into research the macrumors forums or Reddit when planning to buy a Mac (Macbook), you start to almost become depressive and start to think that nearly all MacBooks (2016/2017/2018) are crap and Windows laptops are some sort of Holy Grail nowadays.

And then I step out of the numerous of Mac related topics in the macrumors forums and/or Reddit and I start to search for positive reviews of real users and see that the percentage of happy-unhappy customers are nearly the same.

Also, dozens of collegues and friends/family relatives are (still) happy with their 2016/2017/2018 Macbooks. These same people don't even read macrumors and/or Reddit (okay, maybe some of them)

Then you start to search for alternatives to a Macbook and tadaaa! you'll find as many as complaining and happy users of people using Windows laptop/pc's.

But to give the OP my answer to my question:

With Apples ridiculous (!!) price strategy the last 2 years I have decided to buy good, in new state, second handed Macbook (first inspection by myself ofcourse) and have saved at least a 400-550 euros, each time, compared to buying an brand new MacBook.
Simply because I refuse to pay €1800+ for a Mac.

And still enjoy the Apple ecosystem with the rest of my Apple devices I am using.

#teamNoFear

I wasn’t fully content with the prices of the new devices right now either. But instead of complaining or getting angry - neither of which would actually change anything - I researched the refurbished devices and found one I felt I could be happy with. I’m still very impressed with my refurbished 2017 MacBook Pro, so it was a win-win situation.

 

[Mendota]

the deeper you go into research the macrumors forums or Reddit when planning to buy a Mac (Macbook), you start to almost become depressive and start to think that nearly all MacBooks (2016/2017/2018) are crap and Windows laptops are some sort of Holy Grail nowadays.

And then I step out of the numerous of Mac related topics in the macrumors forums and/or Reddit and I start to search for positive reviews of real users and see that the percentage of happy-unhappy customers are nearly the same.

Also, dozens of collegues and friends/family relatives are (still) happy with their 2016/2017/2018 Macbooks. These same people don't even read macrumors and/or Reddit (okay, maybe some of them)

Then you start to search for alternatives to a Macbook and tadaaa! you'll find as many as complaining and happy users of people using Windows laptop/pc's.

But to give the OP my answer to my question:

With Apples ridiculous (!!) price strategy the last 2 years I have decided to buy good, in new state, second handed Macbook (first inspection by myself ofcourse) and have saved at least a 400-550 euros, each time, compared to buying an brand new MacBook.
Simply because I refuse to pay €1800+ for a Mac.

And still enjoy the Apple ecosystem with the rest of my Apple devices I am using.

#teamNoFear

I always buy my Macs second hand as well, so I am with you there. I am still enjoying my 2012 and was looking forward to upgrading to a refurbished or used 2016, but with all the issues, I am left at a standstill. The 2015s are still pretty high due to demand, so I will just have to wait. I am hoping that Apple will get their act together because I enjoy visiting MacOS from time to time. I love computers and using different operating and echo systems is a enjoyable and productive pastime for me.

 

[maflynn]

With Apples ridiculous (!!) price strategy the last 2 years I have decided to buy good, in new state, second handed Macbook (first inspection by myself ofcourse) and have saved at least a 400-550 euros, each time, compared to buying an brand new MacBook.
Simply because I refuse to pay €1800+ for a Mac.

The pricing is outrageous. Lets compare apples to apples.
Lenovo Thinkpad X1E $2,376
Apple MacBook Pro: 4,328.

The cost difference is incredibly eye opening. I saved a boat load of money, got a more upgradeable computer with a better keyboard.

The configurations for both are 2.6Ghz, 32GB of ram, 1TB of storage and 3 year extended warranty. (I used the Vega 20 GPU in Apple's case.)
[doublepost=1549455655][/doublepost]

I wasn’t fully content with the prices of the new devices right now either. But instead of complaining or getting angry - neither of which would actually change anything

If more people provided feedback to apple that they're not happy with the pricing, they may change. I feel consumers have two options, voicing your displeasure, which we've already established is a useful tool, or vote with your wallet. I think people are doing that with the iPhone pricing, both domestically and internationally.

 

[mrt.plt]

I've been using Apple products for a while and I'm in the Apple Ecosystem (except my Surface Go)
My roommate was looking for a new computer and he was willing to pay ~1500$ (Canadian) He's been using his Unibody Macbook since 2009.
He asked me what I think about the new MacBook Pros, and I honestly couldn't recommend it to him. It's a "premium" product, and even if I go for the base model I expect it not to have ridiculous problems within 3 months of purchase.

The 2016-2018 MacBook Pro lineup looks good and Apple managed to get the whole industry to ditch regular USB ports and switch to USB-C/TB3. However, the number of problems they've had in the last 3 years is too much for a premium brand like Apple.

People tend to keep their 2015 Pros for longer, or even buy 2015 Pros because (well, they are way cheaper and) buying a new-gen Pro is a risky move.

 

[BenTrovato]

I had a 2016 MBP. I loved it. I actually like the keyboards a lot. The finish was amazing, it looked incredible. BUT never been happier since I sold it. The performance for value is rock bottom and while I used to defend touchbar, I'm happy I don't have to use it anymore. Apple's gotta stop with the price gouging or iPhone will be the next to go

 

[Howard2k]

I hope you folks are also sending your feedback to Apple too (google "apple feedback").

 

[Queen6]

I hope you folks are also sending your feedback to Apple too (google "apple feedback").

More the merrier...

Q-6

 

[smirking]

The pricing is outrageous. Lets compare apples to apples.
Lenovo Thinkpad X1E $2,376
Apple MacBook Pro: 4,328.

I think your the math here might be a bit off. I got something around $3000 for the Lenovo compared to around $4000 for the MBP when similarly configured.

Still a pretty big gap, but not a nearly 100% gap.

 

[maflynn]

I think your the math here might be a bit off. I got something around $3000 for the Lenovo compared to around $4000 for the MBP when similarly configured.

Lenovo has frequent sales and coupon codes
Here's my invoice.

 

[Queen6]

I think your the math here might be a bit off. I got something around $3000 for the Lenovo compared to around $4000 for the MBP when similarly configured.

Still a pretty big gap, but not a nearly 100% gap.

Maybe he'll post the sales ticket, then you'll believe. You can shop smartly with Lenovo, even directly. Apple just hand over your card and pay up like a good boy...

Q-6
[doublepost=1549464887][/doublepost]

Lenovo has frequent sales and coupon codes
Here's my invoice.

View attachment 820289

Beat me too it, knew that one was coming

Q-6

 

[GoldfishRT]

Lenovo has frequent sales and coupon codes
Here's my invoice.

Definitely - when comparing Apples to oranges people forget that paying full price for a Windows PC is almost laughable. I don't think I found a PC that wasn't on sale when I was experimenting with them all.

I think the X1 Carbon I ordered with 1TB/16GB HDR and i7 was $1499 on sale. It had some pretty severe issues but the price was nothing to complain about for sure.

People of course, aren't coming to Apple for value. They're hoping they're getting a super premium product and of course that comes at a super premium price. The real problem comes in when people feel they aren't getting the product they paid for.

 

[maflynn]

eople of course, aren't coming to Apple for value.

Agreed, its for the entire experience. Something has to be said about staying within the entire apple ecosystem.

 

[Painter2002]

the deeper you go into research the macrumors forums or Reddit when planning to buy a Mac (Macbook), you start to almost become depressive and start to think that nearly all MacBooks (2016/2017/2018) are crap and Windows laptops are some sort of Holy Grail nowadays.

And then I step out of the numerous of Mac related topics in the macrumors forums and/or Reddit and I start to search for positive reviews of real users and see that the percentage of happy-unhappy customers are nearly the same.

Also, dozens of collegues and friends/family relatives are (still) happy with their 2016/2017/2018 Macbooks. These same people don't even read macrumors and/or Reddit (okay, maybe some of them)

Then you start to search for alternatives to a Macbook and tadaaa! you'll find as many as complaining and happy users of people using Windows laptop/pc's.

But to give the OP my answer to my question:

With Apples ridiculous (!!) price strategy the last 2 years I have decided to buy good, in new state, second handed Macbook (first inspection by myself ofcourse) and have saved at least a 400-550 euros, each time, compared to buying an brand new MacBook.
Simply because I refuse to pay €1800+ for a Mac.

And still enjoy the Apple ecosystem with the rest of my Apple devices I am using.

#teamNoFear

I don’t like Apples pricing, but I have also had bad experiences buying used MacBooks in the past, so I now buy my Mac products refurbed from Apples store. They get individually reinspected, and you save a bit off the original price. I don’t want to chance getting a used dud with a $600 repair just cause I was trying to save a few bucks.

 

[alex87f]

Hello guys - writing here as I'm in a similar position as OP. Back in 2010 I puchased a 2010 13" MBP which I really liked, but ended up replacing it with an XPS15 in early 2016, as I was looking for something a little faster & modern.

Sadly, the XPS never fully lived up to my expectations (build quality behind my MBP, ridiculous battery wear even out of the box, issues with Windows and drivers, etc.), and never provided the same "wow" factor as what was arguably a great MBP, and after three years I'm looking at replacing it.

A base touchbar MBP would be a great fit for my needs, but I'm having a really hard time justifying spending that much on a laptop with so many known issues. I'm considering getting the best 13" 2015 MBP I can find but that would feel like a step backwards to some extent, especially considering the one I had for work never impressed me all that much.

Anybody else in the same situation?
And what's the experience of those of you who went with windows laptops?

 

[GoldfishRT]

Anybody else in the same situation?
And what's the experience of those of you who went with windows laptops?

You'll find many here who have switched to Windows machines with success. Others like me not so much.

It's a crapshoot whether or not you'll end up with a satisfactory device no matter which side of the fence you go one because the state of the industry right now seems to be full of ****. I gave up because I seem to have much better luck with Apple in spite of their own issues (which do not misunderstand me - they really do have some big ones right now).

With that said, if you have a friend with a Costco membership - they've got the TouchBar MacBook Pro starting at $1500 - perhaps a bit more stomach-able compare to the $1800 Apple thinks it should cost.

 

[Webster's Mac]

I nearly succumbed to the reliability talk. Then I remembered I am on a forum and that it is an echo chamber that is not at all representative of the outside world. So, I checked out the other echo chambers. On the Dell XPS reddit, there is a thread that recommends the MacBook over the XPS if you want build quality. They also complain about a crappy keyboard on the XPS 15 and questionable quality control. The Lenovo reddit complains about the X1E running too hot to use on your lap and they recommend repasting the CPU and undervolting. They also complain of misaligned keys on the keyboard, low battery life, and loud fan noise. I did not check out other brands like Microsoft, HP, or Razer because all of them have pretty poor track records for reliability, and I had no real interest in anything they offered. I am certain their forums and subreddits contain exactly the same things as the Lenovo, Dell, and Apple versions.

The point is, stop putting so much stock into forum posts. The T2 thread someone referenced earlier is a great example. The monthly polls have received 85ish responses for January and a little over 100 from December. That is a meaningless poll when you consider that there is non-response bias (very few responses) and those that are responding want to respond meaning you are more likely to get people responding that have an ax to grind. Even with that, the percentages of those with kernel panics is only around 25%. Echo chamber.

The Gen 3 Keyboard thread is another example with the same half dozen to dozen users going round and round for pages and pages with few actual reports of bad keyboards.

Not saying that these issues do not exist, they most certainly do. You should be aware of them. Also be aware that all of them affect a small percentage of users and every laptop manufacturer has them and the "world is on fire" user forums to go with them.

I get what you’re saying, but this is more than an issue with the aforementioned reliability concerns. The thing is, if one key breaks on these MacBooks, it’s a $400 repair cost (if you are not covered any more under the repair program). The SSD goes out? New logic board. (Atleast $600-800) Ram issue? New logic board. Spilled three drops of water in it? New logic board. Display cable fails? New display assembly (atleast $400).

People say “Just buy AppleCare.” So I have to spend $300 to ensure that I don’t have to inevitably pay $400-600 because these MacBook pros are not only having more issues than previous generations, but because they are so glued and soldered together that half of the machine has to be replaced to fix one little part. That’s insane.

I used to be a real fanboy of MacBooks. But time and time again Apple has made completely asinine design choices that are designed to screw the consumer at every turn. Atleast if that Lenovo has a keyboard deformity, it can be replaced for $40. Ram? Replaceable. SSD? Replaceable AND your data can be recovered easily even if the motherboard failed. I truly do not understand how people defend this. I never thought I would buy a PC laptop for my daily driver. But the Thinkpad looks more and more appealing every day...

 

[Cashmonee]

Lenovo has frequent sales and coupon codes
Here's my invoice.

View attachment 820289

Why don't you just say you got it on sale? It is no secret that Lenovo ran deep discounts around the holidays. You are deliberately trying to mislead people. There is definitely a difference in price, and the Lenovo is often on sale, but you also took a deeply discounted price and configuration that makes the difference far more than it actually is for most people.

The current pricing on the Lenovo you quote is $2926.75. The MSRP is $3258.00. That is still over $1000 difference. Sure not as a dramatic as yours, but then again I didn't have to hide anything or mislead anyone.

Honestly, I am not trying to call you out, but I expect more from a moderator.

 

[SDColorado]

You'll find many here who have switched to Windows machines with success. Others like me not so much.

It's a crapshoot whether or not you'll end up with a satisfactory device no matter which side of the fence you go one because the state of the industry right now seems to be full of ****. I gave up because I seem to have much better luck with Apple in spite of their own issues (which do not misunderstand me - they really do have some big ones right now).

With that said, if you have a friend with a Costco membership - they've got the TouchBar MacBook Pro starting at $1500 - perhaps a bit more stomach-able compare to the $1800 Apple thinks it should cost.

Add in the Costco provided 2nd-year warranty and 90-day return window and that's a nice deal.

Why don't you just say you got it on sale? It is no secret that Lenovo ran deep discounts around the holidays. You are deliberately trying to mislead people. There is definitely a difference in price, and the Lenovo is often on sale, but you also took a deeply discounted price and configuration that makes the difference far more than it actually is for most people.

The secret with Lenovo is that they are almost always on sale if you take the time to look for the eCoupon codes. Just generated this one now ...

 

[Cashmonee]

I get what you’re saying, but this is more than an issue with the aforementioned reliability concerns. The thing is, if one key breaks on these MacBooks, it’s a $400 repair cost (if you are not covered any more under the repair program). The SSD goes out? New logic board. (Atleast $600-800) Ram issue? New logic board. Spilled three drops of water in it? New logic board. Display cable fails? New display assembly (atleast $400).

People say “Just buy AppleCare.” So I have to spend $300 to ensure that I don’t have to inevitably pay $400-600 because these MacBook pros are not only having more issues than previous generations, but because they are so glued and soldered together that half of the machine has to be replaced to fix one little part. That’s insane.

I used to be a real fanboy of MacBooks. But time and time again Apple has made completely asinine design choices that are designed to screw the consumer at every turn. Atleast if that Lenovo has a keyboard deformity, it can be replaced for $40. Ram? Replaceable. SSD? Replaceable AND your data can be recovered easily even if the motherboard failed. I truly do not understand how people defend this. I never thought I would buy a PC laptop for my daily driver. But the Thinkpad looks more and more appealing every day...

That's true, and most of the PC industry is moving that way. The Surface line is completely not repairable. I believe the XPS 13 is similar. Not sure on the XPS 15. The Thinkpad line is repairable, and one of its hallmarks. It will likely end up being the last repairable laptop. It is frustrating that is the case, but I don't see what could be done to stem that tide. It isn't just Apple going that direction.