iPhone X I think it's finally time we stop being used as sheep

[AppleHaterLover]

i don't think apple is doomed whatsoever. i just think their current pricing structure doesn't make sense.

it was just 2 years ago that a consumer could purchase the top of the line iPhone for $649-749 depending on if they wanted the regular or the plus. fast forward to today and the price is $999/$1099. it's simply too much and it's pure greed.

I agree with you on this. I've been trying to explain this on this forum, and there are some people that say "I use it so many hours per day, a 50% price increase is worth it". Imagine if everything you use is suddenly 50% more expensive.

I won't pay more than $750 for a phone, so I traded my launch day 7 Plus for a XR.

 

[I7guy]

i don't think apple is doomed whatsoever. i just think their current pricing structure doesn't make sense.

it was just 2 years ago that a consumer could purchase the top of the line iPhone for $649-749 depending on if they wanted the regular or the plus. fast forward to today and the price is $999/$1099. it's simply too much and it's pure greed.

i'm hoping (and believe) they will re-evaluate their product lineup pricing strategy because it's just silly. all of their products are about $100-200 too much, including their mac lineup (don't even get me started on what a mess that is).

fortunately i'm open to other manufacturers. i do love the iPhone but as of now, i've put my foot down and voted with my wallet. i can afford a XS Max, however, it doesn't mean it's financially responsible to make that purchase just so i can make phone calls, send messages and go on social media.

Launch price of the 7+ (Lowest model) was $769, 8+ $869, max $1099. Considering an increase in tech the price increases are not unjustified. If you the consumer doesn’t think there is enough value for the dollar price we are lucky there are alternatives.

 

[balaplus]

i don't think apple is doomed whatsoever. i just think their current pricing structure doesn't make sense.

Changing price structure is a much bigger problem than it seems.
Their whole business model thrives on super-margins and sheep who don't mind the margins!
Share price will drop significantly if people start waiting for price-drops (as they do for other brands)

 

[LovingTeddy]

According to the company itself, Apple needs to grow/recover market share in China and that's their main issue.

I have zero desire to visit China or anywhere in Asia that isn't Japan. I do not understand Chinese culture, their purchasing habits and what they think of the current crop of iPhones. I have a strong dislike for their political system.

So anything I say here is opinionated guesswork. As is 99% of this thread. If Apple who has $100B+ in cash is having trouble figuring out their China game and we are so 100% sure how they should solve their issues, we should be sending our resumes.

If anything, this story shows how much of the world has become China-dependent. And I think this is MUCH more scary that slowing sales in China can wreak havoc in the world like that.

However I have zero sympathy for the suits in Wall Street who were the only ones affected by this, though.

None of the big players have succeeded in China like Apple ever did. Though, Chinese people are starting to know that local offering can be equal or better than foreign player.

Samsung is struggling in China as well. I have zero surprise that Apple is losing its ground in China. Mainly because of the pricing is out of reach for lots of people and Chinese phone makers, like Huawei, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo etc are producing some nicer phone for much less price.

Care to do some research on Vivo Nex or Oppo Find X? Care to look at Xiaomi’s Mi Mix 4? There are just few example of competitors offering is as good if not better than Apple’s offering.

Chinese people don’t have brand loyalty as people in United States, Chinese people are far more locked in in Apple’s ecosystem. iMessage is non-existence in China, because everybody is using either QQ or WeChat. Apple Pay is non-existence simply people using AliPay or WeChat Pay for digital payment. iCloud is useless people are using Baidu Cloud Drive or whatever. You can see the Apple does not have ecosystem advantage in China as they do in United States or Canada.

When Apple loss the advantage of ecosystem, charging premium than competitors and not making products specialized for Chinese consumer, you will not surprised for Apple’s struggle in China.
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Launch price of the 7+ (Lowest model) was $769, 8+ $869, max $1099. Considering an increase in tech the price increases are not unjustified. If you the consumer doesn’t think there is enough value for the dollar price we are lucky there are alternatives.

People should get used to iPhone being next Mac where market share is going down and Apple selling lesser and lesser iPhone. It is just way how it works now. Competitors are offering equal or better product for far less money, price sensitive consumers will choose competitors’ offering (especially when carriers subsidy is the thing in the past).

 

[willentrekin]

Launch price of the 7+ (Lowest model) was $769, 8+ $869, max $1099. Considering an increase in tech the price increases are not unjustified. If you the consumer doesn’t think there is enough value for the dollar price we are lucky there are alternatives.

Not to mention that launch price of the OG 4gb iPhone 2G was $499, which would be more than $600 in 2019; the 8gb version would have cost $730. Conversely, $750 in 2019 dollars would have been about $620 in 2017. So the prices are pretty consistent over more than a decade.

 

[LovingTeddy]

Not to mention that launch price of the OG 4gb iPhone 2G was $499, which would be more than $600 in 2019; the 8gb version would have cost $730. Conversely, $750 in 2019 dollars would have been about $620 in 2017. So the prices are pretty consistent over more than a decade.

People seems to not understand one thing. There is perceived value for all kind of things. Once the actual selling value is higher than perceived value, people will looks elsewhere.

For phones, $1,000 dollars is the barrier for many of us. People don’t really think much deeper on how price is justified for whatever the reasons. People look at the price, they will feel price is too high.

For me, iPhone XS Max base model is 1500+ Canadian. Apple can jam pack all the new tech, but 1500+ selling price is no go for most people.

 

[willentrekin]

People seems to not understand one thing. There is perceived value for all kind of things. Once the actual selling value is higher than perceived value, people will looks elsewhere.

"Perceived value" is subjective. I've had an iPhone 7+ since about a month after launch, so going on three years now. The iPhone Xs Max seems reasonably priced to me for a better device I will continue to use extensively every day for such a long period of time.

 

[I7guy]

...People should get used to iPhone being next Mac where market share is going down and Apple selling lesser and lesser iPhone. It is just way how it works now. Competitors are offering equal or better product for far less money, price sensitive consumers will choose competitors’ offering (especially when carriers subsidy is the thing in the past).

I don’t know if anybody has to get used to anything. “Equal or better” is subjective. The iPhone X proves there was some price elasticity for Apple consumers. Services will keep on growing. Apple will be more than okay.
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People seems to not understand one thing. There is perceived value for all kind of things. Once the actual selling value is higher than perceived value, people will looks elsewhere.

For phones, $1,000 dollars is the barrier for many of us. People don’t really think much deeper on how price is justified for whatever the reasons. People look at the price, they will feel price is too high.

For me, iPhone XS Max base model is 1500+ Canadian. Apple can jam pack all the new tech, but 1500+ selling price is no go for most people.

Your perceived value is not the same as mine though. Your speaking as if you understand what the masses are thinking. You do t and you can’t. While I don’t know how apple revenues will be in the future. My bet is in apple to determine how to proceed. Though I do not think their top tech is going to be sold in the same range as mid-range android phones.

 

[Ebok]

Launch price of the 7+ (Lowest model) was $769, 8+ $869, max $1099. Considering an increase in tech the price increases are not unjustified. If you the consumer doesn’t think there is enough value for the dollar price we are lucky there are alternatives.

So by your logic the jump between every iteration iPhone should have jumped $200-300 cause of “increase in tech”?

iPhone 5 and 6 both saw bigger screens yet prices were still within reason. The 7+ got dual cameras and the price was still about the same as the 6+.

The 5s got a fingerprint reader and was twice as fast, yet it was the same price as the 5. It was one of the biggest things Apple brought to the iPhone at the time and the price was the same.

OLED and wireless charging aren’t new at all either. They’ve been around for years. Those itself don’t justify the price increasing.

Listen, I get it.. ppl bought products and they’re justifying their purchase. The point is iPhones have gotten a lot more expensive and it’s showing.

Also..The whole argument of “well it will last me a few years” is bs anyways cause my 7+ is still strong all these years AND IT WASNT $1100

 

[I7guy]

So by your logic the jump between every iteration iPhone should have jumped $200-300 cause of “increase in tech”?

Not by my logic that’s what Apple did. Increasing the price of new products is not an unheard of practice.

iPhone 5 and 6 both saw bigger screens yet prices were still within reason. The 7+ got dual cameras and the price was still about the same as the 6+.

The 5s got a fingerprint reader and was twice as fast, yet it was the same price as the 5. It was one of the biggest things Apple brought to the iPhone at the time and the price was the same.

OLED and wireless charging aren’t new at all either. They’ve been around for years. Those itself don’t justify the price increasing.

Listen, I get it.. ppl bought products and they’re justifying their purchase. The point is iPhones have gotten a lot more expensive and it’s showing.

Also..The whole argument of “well it will last me a few years” is bs anyways cause my 7+ is still strong all these years AND IT WASNT $1100

The masses (from all over the world) will speak. They spoke when apple had a very good quarter last year when the iPhone X was released. And spoke this quarter. Apple had to revise its guidance down to $84B. Apple earned only $1B per day.

You are welcome to buy or not buy their products if you don’t think apple offers enough value for the money.

 

[willentrekin]

iPhone 5 and 6 both saw bigger screens yet prices were still within reason. The 7+ got dual cameras and the price was still about the same as the 6+.

The 5s got a fingerprint reader and was twice as fast, yet it was the same price as the 5. It was one of the biggest things Apple brought to the iPhone at the time and the price was the same.

OLED and wireless charging aren’t new at all either. They’ve been around for years. Those itself don’t justify the price increasing.

Listen, I get it.. ppl bought products and they’re justifying their purchase. The point is iPhones have gotten a lot more expensive and it’s showing.

Also..The whole argument of “well it will last me a few years” is bs anyways cause my 7+ is still strong all these years AND IT WASNT $1100

iPhone 5 and 6 both had LCD screens, didn't they? OLED tech may not be new but is more expensive.

Aren't the camera sensors bigger, as well. Not to mention that Face ID is more complex than Touch ID, and likely more expensive to 1) build and 2) implement. It requires a whole separate processor bit, doesn't it?

My 7+ is going strong, too (but I don't know why you felt the need to shout right then). But my 7+, a 128GB model, cost $869 at launch -- adjusted for today's dollars, that's >$910. The iPhone Xs Max has a demonstrably better (not to mention bigger) screen, ID system, processor, and camera, all of which I think are, sure, worth several hundred dollars more.

It's clear you're not happy with the margins Apple has decided to pursue, but hey, if your 7+ is still strong, just enjoy! Listen, I get it, you very much want to buy a new phone but find it prohibitively expensive. The point is technology is advances and the latest and greatest has a cost.

 

[jagolden]

This video should answer both your questions.

I just can’t get on board with this. Tried the test. Download was very good, upload slightly better than his results.
Tried holding my phone in the death-grip he was using, no drop-off of any signal strength.
IDK, am I just that lucky, is my Comcast just that great, saturated with towers?
Even way up-state VT last weekend no signal problems.

 

[s15119]

Once you start a post with "We all know", you've lost the argument. No. We do not ALL KNOW. In fact, I heartily disagree with each of your assertions. I bought the new XS Max. It's the best phone I've ever owned and worth every penny I paid for it. If your not happy with what apple produces, buy something else. But don't pretend "everyone knows" the stuff you claim. You can speak for yourself only. Good luck in your future endeavors and purchases. I'm very happy with mine.

 

[Hernan4651]

Not to mention that launch price of the OG 4gb iPhone 2G was $499, which would be more than $600 in 2019; the 8gb version would have cost $730. Conversely, $750 in 2019 dollars would have been about $620 in 2017. So the prices are pretty consistent over more than a decade.

You are wrong. Cause the new tech is cheaper not more expensive.
4gb in that time was more expensive than 32gb today.
It's easy, take the SSD prices as example . 2 years ago you would pay a 500gb SSD for $300, today is $80. And of course, a lot better
SO that excuse it's a lie .
Take another example, the processor. Is smaller and faster . And is smaller because is cheaper to produce.
The 2 things that could make the new Iphones more expensive are the 2 cameras and the OLED Screen.
Nothing more, and you take of that in the XR and you still have a $750 phone. Is ridiculous.

 

[LovingTeddy]

"Perceived value" is subjective. I've had an iPhone 7+ since about a month after launch, so going on three years now. The iPhone Xs Max seems reasonably priced to me for a better device I will continue to use extensively every day for such a long period of time.

I don’t know if anybody has to get used to anything. “Equal or better” is subjective. The iPhone X proves there was some price elasticity for Apple consumers. Services will keep on growing. Apple will be more than okay.
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Your perceived value is not the same as mine though. Your speaking as if you understand what the masses are thinking. You do t and you can’t. While I don’t know how apple revenues will be in the future. My bet is in apple to determine how to proceed. Though I do not think their top tech is going to be sold in the same range as mid-range android phones.

Apparently, revenue is down. Apple saw big decline in China and lesser iPhone upgrade in developed nations as well. I think majority of people think 1000 dollars is too much for a phone.
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iPhone 5 and 6 both had LCD screens, didn't they? OLED tech may not be new but is more expensive.

Aren't the camera sensors bigger, as well. Not to mention that Face ID is more complex than Touch ID, and likely more expensive to 1) build and 2) implement. It requires a whole separate processor bit, doesn't it?

My 7+ is going strong, too (but I don't know why you felt the need to shout right then). But my 7+, a 128GB model, cost $869 at launch -- adjusted for today's dollars, that's >$910. The iPhone Xs Max has a demonstrably better (not to mention bigger) screen, ID system, processor, and camera, all of which I think are, sure, worth several hundred dollars more.

It's clear you're not happy with the margins Apple has decided to pursue, but hey, if your 7+ is still strong, just enjoy! Listen, I get it, you very much want to buy a new phone but find it prohibitively expensive. The point is technology is advances and the latest and greatest has a cost.

FaceID is Apple trying to solve problem that does not exist and make it much harder to use than figerprint sensor. When I had my iPhone XR (returned within 2 weeks), FaceID only works when angle is right. I can never unlock my phone while it on the table or I am laying down on the bed. TouchID was fine and works great, but Apple decided to take it away.

There are OLED phones cost way less than iPhone. OnePlus 6T has OLED, cost significantly less than iPhone XS. Apple just does not want lower its 38% margin, that is all. People start to see competitors offer and react. Then you got Apple is struggling in China and overall iPhone upgrade is slowing down.

 

[willentrekin]

Apparently, revenue is down. Apple saw big decline in China and lesser iPhone upgrade in developed nations as well. I think majority of people think 1000 dollars is too much for a phone.
[doublepost=1546891244][/doublepost]

FaceID is Apple trying to solve problem that does not exist and make it much harder to use than figerprint sensor. When I had my iPhone XR (returned within 2 weeks), FaceID only works when angle is right. I can never unlock my phone while it on the table or I am laying down on the bed. TouchID was fine and works great, but Apple decided to take it away.

There are OLED phones cost way less than iPhone. OnePlus 6T has OLED, cost significantly less than iPhone XS. Apple just does not want lower its 38% margin, that is all. People start to see competitors offer and react. Then you got Apple is struggling in China and overall iPhone upgrade is slowing down.

China is the most major contributing factor to the earnings revision, and much of that is based on economic policies and decision-making far beyond Apple's control.

You're probably right about the majority of people. The majority of people own an Android handset, anyway, and Apple's never pursued either marketshare or a value-based price model.

I've found Touch ID wildly inconsistent at best and useless at worst. I have to resort to my passcode probably 80% of the time when opening my phone. I'm looking forward to Face ID.

Sure, there are phones that cost less. Have fun using one!

 

[sunapple]

Apple doesn’t wanna release sale numbers because they’re BAD. They KNOW they ****ed up.

What don’t you people get?

"Bad" is such a relative term. I mean, every year they post a new record which in this saturated market was never going to hold. So if you sell less than the record-setting year, or even more - but less than predicted, is it still considered "bad"?

Again, we don't have the numbers to back it up, it's mere speculation - with a certainty that it's disappointing in some way. A 9$B disappointed if I'm getting this right, but mostly caused by China which has less to do with pricing than people want to believe - I think.

The most I've ever spent on an iPhone was 900 euros, four years ago standing in line for the iPhone 6 (128GB). Wasn't a mistake per se, but I wouldn't do it again (not a matter of being able to afford it or not, just value-for-money). Last year, I got my 7 Plus 256GB for 550 euros second hand, half the original price. I couldn't agree more that 1500 euro phones are too expensive, but I'm still not too sure how pricing affected sales last quarter.

 

[LovingTeddy]

China is the most major contributing factor to the earnings revision, and much of that is based on economic policies and decision-making far beyond Apple's control.

You're probably right about the majority of people. The majority of people own an Android handset, anyway, and Apple's never pursued either marketshare or a value-based price model.

I've found Touch ID wildly inconsistent at best and useless at worst. I have to resort to my passcode probably 80% of the time when opening my phone. I'm looking forward to Face ID.

Sure, there are phones that cost less. Have fun using one!

Don’t forgot Tim Cook also said iPhone upgrade are slowing down as well in some developed area. The fact is iPhone has almost no growth in past few years and it starts to decline. That is problem for Apple.

With FaceID, with my one and half weeks of using iPhone XR, FaceID never worked reliable as it seems.

 

[Ebok]

Once you start a post with "We all know", you've lost the argument. No. We do not ALL KNOW. In fact, I heartily disagree with each of your assertions. I bought the new XS Max. It's the best phone I've ever owned and worth every penny I paid for it. If your not happy with what apple produces, buy something else. But don't pretend "everyone knows" the stuff you claim. You can speak for yourself only. Good luck in your future endeavors and purchases. I'm very happy with mine.

you just dont get it.

it's useless to argue with some of you on here.

apple could literally go on record and say "well, you know, we priced it a bit too high so the 11 will be $200 cheaper" and you'd still sing the same tune. "well, AT THE TIMEEEEEEE it was worth every penny i paid for and apple is absolutely PERFECT" ......it's pathetic.

It's the best phone I've ever owned and worth every penny I paid for it.

i can afford an iPhone XS Max, hell I can buy a car i've wanted for years, a nissan GT-R and i'm sure it would be the best car i've ever owned and worth every penny.

it doesn't mean it's worth it though. just like the iPhone XS Max, it's simply not worth the price tag and that's why apple isn't releasing it's numbers and sales are down. keep justifying your purchases, i'm sure it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside knowing you're defending a company that literally gives 0 ****s about you and is gouging you like crazy.

 

[I7guy]

Apparently, revenue is down. Apple saw big decline in China and lesser iPhone upgrade in developed nations as well. I think majority of people think 1000 dollars is too much for a phone.

The iPhone X proved price elasticity. Additionally other vendors are hitting up against the $1,000 mark and some variations the new s10 will certainly be there.

FaceID is Apple trying to solve problem that does not exist and make it much harder to use than figerprint sensor. When I had my iPhone XR (returned within 2 weeks), FaceID only works when angle is right. I can never unlock my phone while it on the table or I am laying down on the bed. TouchID was fine and works great, but Apple decided to take it away.

Face ID solves a problem. The problem is called convenience vs security on mobile devices. No biometric authentication is 100%, but Face ID is good enough and convenient enough and secure enough.

There are OLED phones cost way less than iPhone. OnePlus 6T has OLED, cost significantly less than iPhone XS. Apple just does not want lower its 38% margin, that is all. People start to see competitors offer and react. Then you got Apple is struggling in China and overall iPhone upgrade is slowing down.

So buy these oled phones them. Most of them have little traction(and little support) in the US. But in general your post is a straw man. (It has to do with the sentence “People start to see...”)

 

[s15119]

you just dont get it.

it's useless to argue with some of you on here..

I get it. I don't agree. I have no interest in arguing with you or anyone else. It's a phone. I don't argue about phones. I buy what I like and I laugh at people who make lame attempts to insult me. It's a beautiful world. Enjoy it. Buy the things you like and have value to you. Don't worry about what other people find valuable. Just because people disagree with you doesn't make them bad, or wrong or sheep. It just means they value things you don't. Good luck. I hope you find the things that give you pleasure.

 

[44267547]

There are OLED phones cost way less than iPhone. OnePlus 6T has OLED, cost significantly less than iPhone XS. .

Did you factor that the one OnePlus 6T is not even available in other parts of the world? Keep in mind, the iPhone is more of a global phone, when phones like Huawei and OnePlus are not widely available through all carriers.

Apple is struggling in China.

No, this is a major misconception. China’s commerce is stagnated, where they are not spending as much as they once were, which is affecting the tech sector, which affects Apple directly. It’s Not Apple that is struggling, it’s the Chinese consumer is not spending what they once were years prior. China is Apple’s second largest segment in terms of iPhone growth, and if the tech sector is flourishing, it affects Apple accordingly.

 

[LovingTeddy]

Did you factor that the one OnePlus 6T is not even available in other parts of the world? Keep in mind, the iPhone is more of a global phones, when phones like Huawei and OnePlus are not widely available through all carriers.



No, this is a major misconception. China’s commerce is stagnated, where they are not spending as much as they once were, which is affecting the tech sector, which affects Apple directly. It’s Not Apple that is struggling, it’s the Chinese consumer is not spending what they once were years prior. China is Apple’s second largest segment in terms of iPhone growth, and if the tech sector is flourishing, it affects Apple accordingly.

Explains this to me. How on earth Huawei and Xiaomi managed to grow in China while Apple struggling? At least I know, Huawei overtook Apple this year as second largest phone maker in the world.

You are avioding essential question: why is Chinese consumer aren’t buying iPhone while they buying other phones?

I have said in other thread, Apple has big problem in China.

First and for most, iPhone price is out of reach for majority of Chinese people. No one is able to afford phones over 10,000RMB if average salary is no more than 5000RMB. It takes real genius to figure out iPhone is too expensive.

Second: Chinese smartphone makers are offering great product for much lower price point. I mean a lot less. A Huawei P20 is around 5000RMB and Mate 20 is less than iPhone XS Max. Apple does not offer much more than what Xiaomi and Huawei offers and get charge more.

Third: Apple has no ecosystem advantage in China. Chinese people don’t use iMessage, Apple Pay is none existence in China, because of AliPay and WeChat Pay. People using Baidu Clouds instead of iCloud. People using QQ Music instead of Apple Music. People using Baidu Maps instead of Apple Maps. There is just no ecosystem advantage in China. Brand loyalty in China is really not thing in China.

You can blame on China. It is not first year Chinese economy slows down. It has been going on for few years. You can pretend everything is fine and Apple is doing just fine in China. It is not Apple’s problem. It doesn’t change anything.

Huawei is operating pretty much globally, just not in United States, thanks to your genius government. You can get Huawei P20, P20 Pro, P20 Lite and Mate 20 here in Canada and pretty much all Europe. You can get OnePlus theory T-Mobile and you are able to order OnePlus online pretty much anywhere.

 

[Ebok]

Did you factor that the one OnePlus 6T is not even available in other parts of the world? Keep in mind, the iPhone is more of a global phones, when phones like Huawei and OnePlus are not widely available through all carriers.

so... what you're saying is OnePlus produces a lot less phones than Apple (fact) which means they pay more per component (likely another fact), yet they're able to keep the cost of phones down and still make a profit (yet another fact).

 

[44267547]

so... what you're saying is OnePlus produces a lot less phones than Apple (fact) which means they pay more per component (likely another fact), yet they're able to keep the cost of phones down and still make a profit (yet another fact).

[Sidenote:] Whenever making any claims when you’re posting the word ‘fact’ in your post, it doesn’t strengthen your argument, which you clearly didn’t post any sources to back your facts. I’m not questioning necessarily what you’re saying is untrue, but throwing the word ‘fact’ around really doesn’t boast your argument.

That said, I don’t doubt that the Oneplus doesn’t turn a profit for what they charge for their phones, and I can’t attest to their hardware specifications/quality control, because I have not used this phone. But nor can we make it sound like that Apple isn't profitable, clearly when they have benchmarked well past beyond what Analaysts were even predicting in iPhone earnings. In emerging markets, maybe the Oneplus is successful in it’s own right, but one thing you failed to mention, the user is choosing the platform for software, _not_ the hardware. It’s iOS versus android, and iOS has a major foothold for the consumer where android clearly doesn’t measure to that respect in software longevity and security that iOS has. (<—That’s an example of a fact without requiring a source.)