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If The Mac Pro is Dead - What next?

I would be gutted if Apple cut the Mac Pro. I've always admired them, and now that I'm working and could possibly have use for one, their uncertain future sucks.

That being said, I would probably still buy one. I appreciate that they are technically "old" machines now, but they do have a lot of raw power in them and would be a massive step up from my current home setup. I guess if you aren't a "pro" user who needs to heavily run avid, fcp, cs6 etc you won't feel it's "age" as much.

I've been seeing 8-core machines go for about £1200-1500 on eBay and only the thought of a refresh has held me back.
 
^^ 8-core 2.4GHz or 2.26GHz will feel slow UNLESS you are pro using pro multithreaded workflows. Stick with high clocked Quad, hex, or 12-core.
 
Pecorino said:
Sorry, but i have one question... .
Do you think that, it is quite stupid to reveal your "secrets" to the others, especially when these "secrets" made your work much more competitive?
I think- it is. And it is much... .
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I'm not sure it's much of a secret. For high end editing, you definitely want a high end workstation. Something with four processors and Tesla cards.

It's definitely an interesting conundrum. The Mac Pro is not really a high end workstation. Because it's only dual processor, it's really a mid end. That's not a bad thing, most users have a mid end workstation at their desk and a high end in the back doing the rendering, but it limits Apple's market. Apple doesn't really have anything for low end workstations or high end, so that means both those groups constantly complain.
 
Please forgive me if this was mentioned before, but there is a real problem with suggesting that hackintoshes are an alternative to a Mac Pro. If the MP is killed, then it is highly unlikely that the dual processor chipsets so necessary for all that required horsepower will be supported in OSX.

David
 
orangezorki said:
Please forgive me if this was mentioned before, but there is a real problem with suggesting that hackintoshes are an alternative to a Mac Pro. If the MP is killed, then it is highly unlikely that the dual processor chipsets so necessary for all that required horsepower will be supported in OSX.

David
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Only a matter of time before some of those "hardcore Hackint0sh" people crack that egg. I'm sure.
 
If the hackintosh platform becomes significant then Apple may try to put a stop to it by building in a self destruct in OSX.
 
goMac said:
I'm not sure it's much of a secret. For high end editing, you definitely want a high end workstation. Something with four processors and Tesla cards.

It's definitely an interesting conundrum. The Mac Pro is not really a high end workstation. Because it's only dual processor, it's really a mid end. That's not a bad thing, most users have a mid end workstation at their desk and a high end in the back doing the rendering, but it limits Apple's market. Apple doesn't really have anything for low end workstations or high end, so that means both those groups constantly complain.
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The biggest problem with the Mac Pro, it being a " mid end " workstation, is that if you buy straight from Apple, a fully optioned out Mac Pro costs 15,000 dollars. And if you buy a similar Dell,HP or GAMEPC workstation for 15,000, it'll kick the crap out of a Mac Pro.
 
G51989 said:
The biggest problem with the Mac Pro, it being a " mid end " workstation, is that if you buy straight from Apple, a fully optioned out Mac Pro costs 15,000 dollars. And if you buy a similar Dell,HP or GAMEPC workstation for 15,000, it'll kick the crap out of a Mac Pro.
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Which Dell workstation? A single Tesla through Dell alone was $5k last I checked, so I'm having a hard time buying that.

Edit: The base config for a 4 processor starts at $27k from Dell. :-\
 
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G51989 said:
The biggest problem with the Mac Pro, it being a " mid end " workstation, is that if you buy straight from Apple, a fully optioned out Mac Pro costs 15,000 dollars. And if you buy a similar Dell,HP or GAMEPC workstation for 15,000, it'll kick the crap out of a Mac Pro.
Click to expand...

We need proof...not your word
 
Just Switched said:
For creative work and paying client's however I trust my livelyhood to windows 7 and adobe. Hasn't failed me and has sped up my work. Companies are starting to see this as well. Of course you can stay on a Mac with Final Cut X or 7 if you prefer. The PC route I mentioned isn't cheap. The Quadro 6000 with 2 C2075 Teslas will set you back over $8,000 dollars before including the price of the rest of the PC. If you're building it yourself you can get a near top of the line workstation for a little over $20,000 depending on your needs. Many good storage options too for under $10,000 also depending on how much storage you need.
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That does sound like a nice setup. I am guessing part of the motivation in going with these specific cards comes from the amount of available vram.

goMac said:
I'm not sure it's much of a secret. For high end editing, you definitely want a high end workstation. Something with four processors and Tesla cards.

It's definitely an interesting conundrum. The Mac Pro is not really a high end workstation. Because it's only dual processor, it's really a mid end. That's not a bad thing, most users have a mid end workstation at their desk and a high end in the back doing the rendering, but it limits Apple's market. Apple doesn't really have anything for low end workstations or high end, so that means both those groups constantly complain.
Click to expand...

Does that really make more sense than a render farm that serves multiple users? If so is it just an issue of costs to put together a setup with decent queue management on a smaller scale with just a few artists? You're still talking about jobs beyond the scale of the majority of what is discussed on here.
 
thekev said:
Does that really make more sense than a render farm that serves multiple users? If so is it just an issue of costs to put together a setup with decent queue management on a smaller scale with just a few artists? You're still talking about jobs beyond the scale of the majority of what is discussed on here.
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Typically those are the sorts of machines you use in a render farm.

I'd assume most people have something less crazy at their desk, like a Mac Pro. Some people though do need really high end machines at their desk.

It also is definitely a lot more than most users here need. Which is why when some people complain about it, I'm not very sympathetic. Yes, if you do 3D rendering and you want a machine with supercomputer GPUs at your desk, the Mac Pro is probably a bad choice. Duh. Doesn't mean it's a bad machine.

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G51989 said:
I'm talking other mid range systems, not super crazy high end stuff I'll never be able to afford.

http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=gpgx2

Thats about the same cost as a fully decked out mac pro.

The best part is, Microsoft or GAMEPC won't drop support for your system after a couple years.
Click to expand...

Um, you could get a Mac Pro for the same price by just not ordering RAM and SSDs through Apple.

Not really a big advantage, and Apple will support your machine as long as anyone's warranty is running.

Not to mention the high end GamePC is : gasp : $17.4k. I thought they were all cheaper than a $15k Mac Pro?
 
goMac said:
Um, you could get a Mac Pro for the same price by just not ordering RAM and SSDs through Apple.

Not really a big advantage, and Apple will support your machine as long as anyone's warranty is running.

Not to mention the high end GamePC is : gasp : $17.4k. I thought they were all cheaper than a $15k Mac Pro?
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Oh Im going straight off Apple vs Other manufactor prices, if it was for personal use, I'd just buy the low end GAMEPC ( not on that page ) or a Base Mac Pro and deck it out myself.

You can just buy the 13K one and dump more RAM in if you want, and GamePC makes some pretty crazy stuff. You should see the 12 Processor system with 512gb of ram....I need to win the power ball.

The other thing is, The Mac Pro Lacks USB 3.0, it lacks SATAIII, and multi GPU support. Not good. ANd sure, USB 3.0 and SATAIII might not matter at the moment, but give it a few years.

Apple doesn't support their Products very long, Microsoft supported XP for 11 years, and still patches the damn thing. Apple dumped support for PowerPC and Lepord in less than 6 years. Great support! 1st gen iMacs and mac minis are screwed as well with OSX 10.8. ( which I will be gettting ).

Thats why I felt like an idiot for buying my 27 inch iMac, as much as I LOVEEEEEEEE it for home use, I just have a feeling, in 5 years. It'll be a paper weight.

I still have Windows Boxes that are going on 8-9 years old. And can be somewhat useful ( Keep in mind these were VERY high end for the time ). I can't say the same about my PowerPC Macs.....Those I use my Dual 2.7gzh G5....because its sexy...

I'm not dissing on Apple at all, I love my PowerPC Macs, and my new 27 inch iMac. But the fact is, Apple has not updated the Mac Pro with new processors, or even new interfaces. No USB 3.0, no multi GPU support, and no SATA III. Sure maybe SATAIII and USB 3.0 aren't super common place yet. But give it a couple years.
 
goMac said:
Typically those are the sorts of machines you use in a render farm.

I'd assume most people have something less crazy at their desk, like a Mac Pro. Some people though do need really high end machines at their desk.

It also is definitely a lot more than most users here need. Which is why when some people complain about it, I'm not very sympathetic. Yes, if you do 3D rendering and you want a machine with supercomputer GPUs at your desk, the Mac Pro is probably a bad choice. Duh. Doesn't mean it's a bad machine.
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I do some of that, but it's mostly limited to still elements for print comps. It's just not on the level of what was being discussed before. I get the need for some of those. The vram would be a huge benefit for rendering. The guys doing this stuff on a mac are definitely in the minority. That said, since the mac pro is somewhat of a catch all tower solution, I wish they'd offer something slightly better at the base level. I've looked at gpu based rendering, and it's difficult to find enough good information on the topic in relation to speed benefits and hardware requirements. I'm also not sure how much mental ray supports gpu rendering even under Windows. Some of the other rendering engines may be ahead of them. I don't keep up with this stuff minute by minute, and my current needs are pretty light. I just load up with ram to prevent unnecessary lag.


G51989 said:
I still have Windows Boxes that are going on 8-9 years old. And can be somewhat useful ( Keep in mind these were VERY high end for the time ). I can't say the same about my PowerPC Macs.....Those I use my Dual 2.7gzh G5....because its sexy...

I'm not dissing on Apple at all, I love my PowerPC Macs, and my new 27 inch iMac. But the fact is, Apple has not updated the Mac Pro with new processors, or even new interfaces. No USB 3.0, no multi GPU support, and no SATA III. Sure maybe SATAIII and USB 3.0 aren't super common place yet. But give it a couple years.
Click to expand...

While a lot of computers lead long lives, they're typically not used for the same things throughout that lifespan. Programs becomes more demanding over time and require different features in terms of hardware support. You can't really plan for all of that, so it's common to buy relative to your current requirements. Past five years, that display won't look like it did when it was new anyway. It's not just a speed thing. Typically it's not practical to plan their usage beyond 5 years or so. If you're writing it off using a depreciation schedule, computers use a 5 year schedule.
 
G51989 said:
I'm talking other mid range systems, not super crazy high end stuff I'll never be able to afford.

http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=gpgx2

Thats about the same cost as a fully decked out mac pro.

The best part is, Microsoft or GAMEPC won't drop support for your system after a couple years.
Click to expand...

Worst part though is no guarantee that GamePC is even going to be in business in 2 years.

Apple doesn't have to compete with GamePC. They're a white box vendor. Apple is a Tier 1 vendor.
 
nuckinfutz said:
Worst part though is no guarantee that GamePC is even going to be in business in 2 years.

Apple doesn't have to compete with GamePC. They're a white box vendor. Apple is a Tier 1 vendor.
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GamePC has been in business for about 15 years now, there is no sign of them going under. They build Systems Apple doesn't even offer. If you want some serious performance. Apple can't help you, GamePC can. I recently bought one of their home gaming systems. I can't ask for more, it performs flawlessly, its retarded fast, VERY quiet, and super duper well built. GAME support is amazing. I can't say the same for my Apple experiences.

Yes, Apple is a great company, but for me. At home for gaming: I Love gaming, Apple doesn't offer anything to game on for a decent price. The Mac Pro is to expensive, and has lack luster hardware for that Purpose. 1 GPU? Really?

As far as where I work goes, we have some MacPros. But my own work station is a GAME, and We've never had a single problem with it. It performs so well.

Well dur, Apple doesn't compete with GAMEPC, GAMEPC is about Gaming rigs, Workstations, Servers, and research systems, Apple doesn't do any of that save workstations lol.
 
Got it.

Didn't know they have been in biz for 15 years. I'm glad they're here to serve gamers and those that want a workstation built their way.
 
G51989 said:
Well dur, Apple doesn't compete with GAMEPC, GAMEPC is about Gaming rigs, Workstations, Servers, and research systems, Apple doesn't do any of that save workstations lol.
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I am not at odds with anything you have been saying, mind you, but why exactly are you on a Mac Pro user thread only to be all "nanny nanny gamepc is rad" to a bunch of users who could also care less? It's not as if GamePC is unique to boutique builders in any way. I am aware of a slew of builders out there. I always build and overclock my own PC's anyway. Those parts are cool but I will still build it myself.
 
nuckinfutz said:
Got it.

Didn't know they have been in biz for 15 years. I'm glad they're here to serve gamers and those that want a workstation built their way.
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Yeah, they aren't a little two bit company.

I run this at home ( middle model ).

http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=ds3

After I link this, people don't look at me odd for not wanting a Mac Pro at home lol.

Not that any of us would have a use for this thing ...

http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=titansli

lol

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derbothaus said:
I am not at odds with anything you have been saying, mind you, but why exactly are you on a Mac Pro user thread only to be all "nanny nanny gamepc is rad" to a bunch of users who could also care less? It's not as if GamePC is unique to boutique builders in any way. I am aware of a slew of builders out there. I always build and overclock my own PC's anyway. Those parts are cool but I will still build it myself.
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I build myself to. And I am not at odds with what you saying either. And yeah I know there are tons of builders out there, but over the years, GAMEPC has really stood out to me.

And I do own a couple of Macs. And I am in here, because if Apple had decided to not screw over its customers and actually update the Mac Pro. There would be a Mac Pro sitting on my desk, and not a GAMEPC. And I think you would have to be legally insane to purchase a new Mac Pro at current prices. I couldn't care less about the amount of Money a decent Mac Pro cost. Screw it, I'd blow money on a 5K mac Pro then upgrade the hell out of it myself.

Old processors? No thanks. No SATAIII? No deal. No USB 3.0? No sale. One video card? Sorry.

Update the damn thing so its actually competitive? Sold. If they do decide to actually update the damn thing, I'll probably buy one anyway.

I see a lot of people asking questions " should I buy a new Mac Pro now? ". I say no, you'd need to be nuts. Wait for an upgrade before you buy. If you buy now, and they do update it. You'll feel just like a G5 user after the Intel Switch.

The lack of updating the Mac Pro, proves to me that if its not iOS, Apple couldn't give a **** less.
 
derbothaus said:
OK. Legit.
Just be careful the anger does not destroy you.:D
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Its not Anger, I got my first Mac a few years ago, used G5, I loved it. Still do.

And I would hate to use OSX at work to be honest, but as long as I'm not gaming, I love OSX. I love how it feels, I love how just, idk, awesome it is.

Problem is, Apple just refuses to put effort into anything that isn't iOS.

Now I'm not saying that anyone in the Mac Pro market should jump to windows right away, to soon to tell.

But I hear a good number of Apple guys say " oh just get an imac and thunderbolt hard drives "....because that is totally as good as a new Mac Pro! * rolls eyes *
 
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^^^ I love OS X for work. I mean if I had to use Visio or Project I'd probably hate it. Otherwise it works just fine. I am a manual kind of guy. Always laughing at the poor policy ridden saps who's PC's are always bogged down with some sort of routine. They seem to be quite jealous of the Mac users who only require very basic AD integration and practically zero policy. It almost takes 2x the PC for same performance as Mac under roof. If it was pre OS 9 still or something other than Unix I might not have such a high opinion. But it is and I can recompile, port, script, or do whatever is needed. All with included tools. Basic operation of MS always required an insane amount of someone else's tools. Windows is a very expensive skeleton. But games are good on it.
 
If I could get a 6 core imac with clock at 3.3-3.5 ghz with 24 gb ram and a decent graphics card, I might bite at this point. Why we can't have 6 core in imac is a mystery to me, especially since Mac pros are lagging.
 
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