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If The Mac Pro is Dead - What next?
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Lemme reiterate what I said lol: There are lots of professionals who don't need that kind of computing power, and there are some non-professionals (gamers that want a mac) that would like that kind of power
Yes. But what if they were professional gamers? mind=blown?
What kind of PC gamer would overpay for outdated hardware on a Mac Pro?Lemme reiterate what I said lol: There are lots of professionals who don't need that kind of computing power, and there are some non-professionals (gamers that want a mac) that would like that kind of power
Um, no. As far as build quality of the actual chassis, nothing matches the Mac Pro. Falcon Northwest basically uses a custom Silverstone TJ11 or something for their tower. Silverstone doesn't produce aluminum cases with the same level as thickness as apple. It's not even close.
It looks like GamePC uses cases from Antec, Lian Li, and Coolermaster. Lian Li does make some nice aluminum cases, but nothing with the same build quality of the mac pro. They use stamped aluminum. Where as the Mac Pro has whole solid pieces of cast aluminum.
Those pc makers you've listed don't make their own cases. Companies such as Antec, Lian Li, Coolermaster, Silverstone make their cases. You can find similar cases on newegg.com. The only difference is that the pc makers get custom cases without the branding. All their parts are off the shelf, too. Asus motherboards, corsair PSUs, etc. They don't do anything you can't do yourself.
Anyway, not one manufacturer I've seen has produced a case with better build quality than the Mac Pro. Even the Japanese wendy cases aren't as good.
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Alright, I accept that. The Mac Pro uses the same case as the G5's right? Yeah its a nice case. Very nice, but as nice as the case is, at least for me, and it's not so much a money thing, I could afford a Mac pro, but the problem is, as nice as the case is, I just can't bring myself to buy a Mac Pro, I could build something, or probably buy something that blows away a Mac Pro dollar to performance wise. And thats why I can't buy one, as thick as the case is, that doesn't make up for outdated hardware. Just my two cents.
Apple needs to refresh the Mac Pro, or get rid of it and loose their hardcore users.
About the case... I've seen a bunch of custom-built hobbyist computers, and a bunch of professionally-built gaming rigs, and they are very unimpressive inside the box. The great part of the Mac Pro case isn't just the solid aluminum with its superior cooling, whisper quiet fans, and clean, no-nonsense design. It's what's inside. No mess of cables, no tools needed for most upgrades or replacements, truly a dream to work with. The remarkable thing about it is, as nice as the PowerMac G5s were, and as nice as the first Mac Pro was, they keep getting better. I recently had the genuine pleasure of moving parts around inside both a 1,1 and a 4,1. The 1,1 is outstanding, better than any other computer I've seen inside not made by Apple. The 4,1 makes the 1,1 look outdated and difficult. I haven't seen the 5,1 inside, but I can't wait to see what Apple does with the 6,1.
There are people who enjoy getting their hands dirty, building computers from scratch, and really spending time working inside with their machines, putting things together and taking them apart. I'll gladly admit, sometimes I'm that guy. I'm interested in technology, and I like working with my hands. I also recently took apart a truly ancient machine. I'm talking 1980s. It was remarkable to see all the massive parts crammed in that huge box. It was also a pain in the ass, and needed three different screwdrivers.
Then there are those who like a computer that lets them swap parts in and out in a matter of seconds, and don't want any hassles. When it's your work machine, that's invaluable. When you just want it to work, that's invaluable. Hackintoshes are just not an acceptable option for people who need their machines working for serious, billable hours. They will never be built as well, as easy to work with, or hassle-free. The upfront difference in cost is well worth it if you save a lot of time over the life of the box.
Are there things I wish were different about the Mac Pro design? Sure. Off the top of my head, the handles dig into your skin when you move the thing; if they were rounder edges that'd be great. I wouldn't mind just a slight bit more breathing room around full-size PCI cards, too. These are such tiny issues compared to the tangled mess I see inside just about every other desktop computer case I've seen, though, or the difficulties and time spent building a hackintosh. I'm looking forward to Apple's improvements for hopefully many years of Mac Pros to come. I'm particularly hopeful that with Intel's new emphasis on reduced power loads, more room will free up inside the case, for a lighter, roomier, even quieter machine.
In the dollar-to-performance equation, you're leaving out important variables. There are intangible benefits from having a big cool-and-quiet machine over one that's hot and loud. Most important, though, at least from a business point of view, is total cost of ownership. The amount of time you spend researching parts, building yours from scratch, working through hardware incompatibilities, and even the extra time you have to spend upgrading it because the case design isn't as good, that's cost. If your time isn't worth that much, or you call it entertainment, maybe a hackintosh is a good deal. If your time is worth a lot, it's far better to have something that came all in one piece from one of Apple's manufacturers. You'll easily make up the difference in initial cost over the life of the computer.
There are people who enjoy getting their hands dirty, building computers from scratch, and really spending time working inside with their machines, putting things together and taking them apart. I'll gladly admit, sometimes I'm that guy. I'm interested in technology, and I like working with my hands. I also recently took apart a truly ancient machine. I'm talking 1980s. It was remarkable to see all the massive parts crammed in that huge box. It was also a pain in the ass, and needed three different screwdrivers.
Then there are those who like a computer that lets them swap parts in and out in a matter of seconds, and don't want any hassles. When it's your work machine, that's invaluable. When you just want it to work, that's invaluable. Hackintoshes are just not an acceptable option for people who need their machines working for serious, billable hours. They will never be built as well, as easy to work with, or hassle-free. The upfront difference in cost is well worth it if you save a lot of time over the life of the box.
Are there things I wish were different about the Mac Pro design? Sure. Off the top of my head, the handles dig into your skin when you move the thing; if they were rounder edges that'd be great. I wouldn't mind just a slight bit more breathing room around full-size PCI cards, too. These are such tiny issues compared to the tangled mess I see inside just about every other desktop computer case I've seen, though, or the difficulties and time spent building a hackintosh. I'm looking forward to Apple's improvements for hopefully many years of Mac Pros to come. I'm particularly hopeful that with Intel's new emphasis on reduced power loads, more room will free up inside the case, for a lighter, roomier, even quieter machine.
In the dollar-to-performance equation, you're leaving out important variables. There are intangible benefits from having a big cool-and-quiet machine over one that's hot and loud. Most important, though, at least from a business point of view, is total cost of ownership. The amount of time you spend researching parts, building yours from scratch, working through hardware incompatibilities, and even the extra time you have to spend upgrading it because the case design isn't as good, that's cost. If your time isn't worth that much, or you call it entertainment, maybe a hackintosh is a good deal. If your time is worth a lot, it's far better to have something that came all in one piece from one of Apple's manufacturers. You'll easily make up the difference in initial cost over the life of the computer.
Well, as far as unimpressive inside of the box? Who cares what a computer looks like on the inside? Because I sure as hell don't, who when I buy or build. I keep it neat. I'll admit my G5 has a pretty cool case interior.
But, your talking like Apple is the only computer that makes quiet computers, that are of good quailty
This is what I run at home. Replaced my old gaming rig, which I'll admit, was getting on in age, almost 4 years, I keep things a long time I guess.
http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=ds3
I'm running the GMT-W7 / 200, perfect gaming rig for me, I threw a few little options in, and more ram. The case is not G5 or Mac Pro Quailty, but its very well made. Pretty thick, attention to detail is good. It's not a " mess all over inside ", and I can pretty much upgrade anything in it with a philips head screw driver, hell I can upgrade the processors with no tools and some thermal paste. So yeah, it wouldn't take any extra time compared to a Mac Pro, which has drive locks right? That extra couple minutes doesn't bother me. Hell, I don't Apple has anything that can compare to that Model to start with, as far as I know they still sell it with the ATi 5 series.
And, my GAME runs VERY cool and VERY quiet, as its liquid cooled. Its super quiet, we do have a few Pros in our Department at work, and they are also pretty quiet. My G5 tho, is probably the loudest computer I've ever owned. And the amount of heat that comes out of the back is insane. Same with my G4 tower. I'm happy to report that my new iMac is pretty quiet and runs rather cool.
And for me, a Mac pro just wouldn't do it. This is the work station I WISH I had at work.
http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=gpgx2
I fail to see how something like that is inferior to a Mac Pro. But thats just me.
A Mac pro is awesome computer that I wouldn't mind sitting on my desk. But it just doesn't have the balls for some of the stuff we do, which is why I REALLY wish Apple would Update the Mac pro. Because then I'd actually be in the market for one. Hell, I bought my G5 and got HOOKED on OSX ( tho I still like mah Windows ). So then I got a new iMac. And if Apple did update the Mac Pro and made the prices a little more reasonable. There would be a Mac Pro sitting at home Dual Booting Windows and OSX rather than my GAME.
But, your talking like Apple is the only computer that makes quiet computers, that are of good quailty
This is what I run at home. Replaced my old gaming rig, which I'll admit, was getting on in age, almost 4 years, I keep things a long time I guess.
http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=ds3
I'm running the GMT-W7 / 200, perfect gaming rig for me, I threw a few little options in, and more ram. The case is not G5 or Mac Pro Quailty, but its very well made. Pretty thick, attention to detail is good. It's not a " mess all over inside ", and I can pretty much upgrade anything in it with a philips head screw driver, hell I can upgrade the processors with no tools and some thermal paste. So yeah, it wouldn't take any extra time compared to a Mac Pro, which has drive locks right? That extra couple minutes doesn't bother me. Hell, I don't Apple has anything that can compare to that Model to start with, as far as I know they still sell it with the ATi 5 series.
And, my GAME runs VERY cool and VERY quiet, as its liquid cooled. Its super quiet, we do have a few Pros in our Department at work, and they are also pretty quiet. My G5 tho, is probably the loudest computer I've ever owned. And the amount of heat that comes out of the back is insane. Same with my G4 tower. I'm happy to report that my new iMac is pretty quiet and runs rather cool.
And for me, a Mac pro just wouldn't do it. This is the work station I WISH I had at work.
http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=gpgx2
I fail to see how something like that is inferior to a Mac Pro. But thats just me.
A Mac pro is awesome computer that I wouldn't mind sitting on my desk. But it just doesn't have the balls for some of the stuff we do, which is why I REALLY wish Apple would Update the Mac pro. Because then I'd actually be in the market for one. Hell, I bought my G5 and got HOOKED on OSX ( tho I still like mah Windows ). So then I got a new iMac. And if Apple did update the Mac Pro and made the prices a little more reasonable. There would be a Mac Pro sitting at home Dual Booting Windows and OSX rather than my GAME.
OK. Gaming aside. You need more balls than 12-cores/24 threads at 2.93GHz? That PC is nowhere near that computing power even with the latest i7 Hex. It is only 1 of em. Games only care about GPU anyway so the proc is totally wasted if that is your only interest. Should save money and get an i5-2500 instead. Mac Pro's are not for best gaming experience. They are for super power computing. Specifically CPU crunching. The low end Mac Pro is not the point of the Mac Pro either. The stuff you do must not be multi threaded. In that case I see having the higher turbo bins from SB-E instead of Westmere core's.
You can definitely get cases on the PC side that are as quiet or quieter and as easy to work with. The Corsair 800D is a good example. It has a hot-swap hd rack that is accessible through the front of the case. You just need open the door on the front and put the HDD in the tray and slide in. There are other cases, too. But none with the same build quality as the Mac Pro.
There are plenty of quiet fans that can be used on pc cases. There are the pretty quiet noiseblocker 120mm fans. Silverstone makes very quiet 180mm fans tha are used in their ft02, tj11, etc. it actually wouldn't be difficult building a pc that is more quiet than the Mac pro without liquid cooling. In fact, I've seen liquid cooling setups that are very loud because the fans on the radiators are running at max RPMs in order to get the lowest temps possible.
My Game PC Portable gaming desktop ( I do go to LAN meets quite a bit, the handle is nice ), isn't a work station.
Look at the Work Station I linked, thats considered a " low end " work station by GAMEPC Standards, and even a decked out Mac Pro Can't compete. Its not apple hate, I love apple. They just REFUSE to update it. I think Apple is telling their higher end users to stuff it. Which would not surprise me for one second.
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Yeah, thats wrong on so many levels. My GF currently is running a newer XPS Desktop from Dell, and you can hardly hear it, its SUPER quiet.
Not that they are all quiet, but the majority of computers today are very quiet, and decently put together. Now, the Mac Pro is awesome, so don't anyone dare say I hate it, hell my PowerMac G5 is amazing, and its 7 years old. But the fact of the matter is, unless Apple Updates the Mac Pro, as it stands now, its a waste of money.
I'll probably get **** for this, but I don't care. I love Apple, I love OSX, and yes they are well built machines. But as it stands right now, the Mac pro is a computer with old tech, horrible abilty to expand, and a total Ripoff, CMON APPLE, Update the damn thing!
If you want under powered hardware, most likely terrible support in the future, and no abilty to upgrade to the newest devices! Grab a Mac pro! No high end video cards? No SATAIII? No USB 3.0? What a joke.
The Mac pro is good, but a ripoff, and it can't hold a candle to real workstations, because Apple just dones't care. They focus on IOS and the garbage iMAc ( By the way, I have a brand new iMac, and its awesome for home use, but its fail on so many levels for anything intensive, a MOBILE video card? what a joke, thats all the current mac is, a joke )
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Yeah, you gotta love the innards of the MacPro, not a cable in sight and everything so easy to access and remove.
But my '09 W3520 is NOISY. Maybe because I bought it used. Def not as quiet as the old G5.
I hope the MacPro will stick around, but if not I'll be building my own Win7 box. I don't see Hackintosh as a viable longterm solution with the direction Apple has taken (OS thru app store etc.), and my software does not run on Linux.
But my '09 W3520 is NOISY. Maybe because I bought it used. Def not as quiet as the old G5.
I hope the MacPro will stick around, but if not I'll be building my own Win7 box. I don't see Hackintosh as a viable longterm solution with the direction Apple has taken (OS thru app store etc.), and my software does not run on Linux.
I've had a computer with so many wires running every which way it literally took me an half hour to upgrade RAM. Something that should of not taken 10 minutes tops.Not looking forward to that agian. It can also disrupt air flow, probably why the Mac Pro has so efficient cooling and less noisy fans.
Depends, its amazing what they call workstations on the PC side these days. The low priced ones barely have a 300 Watt power supply and C2D i3 Intel in them. But yet call them Workstations.
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What are we comparing that it can't compete in exactly? No one is arguing video game status on a Mac Pro over a PC. That is not it's purpose at all. It just happens to be ABLE to do some gaming if needed. I will however argue that 2x6-core Xeon's at 2.93GHz will have more CPU power than an i7-3960. The liquid cooled comment was a joke. I have owned great cases with double walls and silent fans etc. Apple will always cost more at the end of cycles as they never adjust pricing. So get an Apple Mac early and cost complaints can be minimized.
Don't look at the Gaming Computer link, thats what I run at home.
The SECOND link in my post is what I'm talking about as far as work station goes
Sorry dude. Cough, Cough... that price...
Yeah, that is killer. But is using the same stuff the next (if) Mac Pro will have minus the 520 SSD and GPU options. Up to Apple on GPU. This is the only ting I am waiting for over the next couple years. 7970 or GTX680 and I am set. No telling what Apple will price at but if history is any indication Apple will be competitive during the first 6 months of the cycle and then the PC's will be better values as they cut the prices to make way for the new parts. Sorry for not clicking 2nd link 1st
A decent production machine (especially these days) should not have that problem.
Sorry dude. Cough, Cough... that price...
Yeah, that is killer. But is using the same stuff the next (if) Mac Pro will have minus the 520 SSD and GPU options. Up to Apple on GPU. This is the only ting I am waiting for over the next couple years. 7970 or GTX680 and I am set. No telling what Apple will price at but if history is any indication Apple will be competitive during the first 6 months of the cycle and then the PC's will be better values as they cut the prices to make way for the new parts. Sorry for not clicking 2nd link 1st
Well, to option out a Mac pro to cost that much, it can easily cost that much, and it'll perform far worse. Which proves my point that Apple needs to Update the Pro
Not if the parts are the same it won't perform any worse. What are you on about?
The 2 year old parts are not on par? This is correct. There is no point to this other than stupid consumers paying too much get what they deserve, yes. No one should option a Westmere dually and buy Apple Memory and Apple HDD's and SDD's direct. You are a dolt if you do so. But a Mac Pro is a good case and a board ROM. Other than that it is the same as any Xeon setup. It performs identical to same PC with same parts. If you are pinning for a Mac Pro update, so is everyone else. You just have weird way of looking at it. imo.
It is pretty concise. Overall I don't think it matters if it's that pretty inside. You just need a layout that won't cause long term problems in component cooling (resulting in higher idle fan speeds) and the ability to get around it efficiently. I only hate the ones where the cabling is a complete mess. Sadly many on here have the idea that it's an all or nothing kind of issue.
Quite often you spend way too much optioning stuff from any oem. If it's something simple, I'd do it myself. Installing ram or a hard drive takes me a few minutes in almost any given computer (more in an imac, and obviously the 3.5" drive can't really be swapped at all). There's just an overwhelming tension because everyone feels Apple should have first pick at any parts they intend to use. In Intel's case, they've been very cautious since the Sandy Bridge problems early last year.
Hi,
My first post on this forum !
Now... What if Apple surprises us with an 'iMac-Pro' , instead of a new Mac Pro ?
My first post on this forum !
Now... What if Apple surprises us with an 'iMac-Pro' , instead of a new Mac Pro ?
Hi,
My first post on this forum !
Now... What if Apple surprises us with an 'iMac-Pro' , instead of a new Mac Pro ?
but then the macpro would be forever slaved to the imac's display.
plus it wouldn't be easy to upgrade/mod/open id think
That's true, but what if the iMac-Pro is a totally new design, with easy access for upgrade/mod.
Having said so, I would rather see a new re-designed next gen. Mac Pro, but Apple can easily surprise us with an iMac-Pro
All we can do is wait, wait, and wait more... and hopefully we will know when they officially announce the next powerful Apple desktop workstation.