At times yes, but the allure to it seems to be the ultra portability (more so than an MBA) and the fact that it doubles a notebook enhancement (pen & paper, not computer) in the classroom.
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iPad Pro If we don't get Final Cut for the M1 iPad Pro at WWDC, I am closing the book on this experiment.
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Which is why you have the iPad, iPad Air and iPad Mini. Although to be fair, one should just stick with either the iPad or iPad mini.
They run the same software, sure. However, I own both $300 iPad 9th gen and $2000 iPP 12.9 1TB 5G, and I’d disagree that they deliver the same experience.
As for Chromebooks the ones with larger, high resolution displays and non-throwaway specs are kinda spendy, too (~$1K).
At this point in time, iPads are sufficiently advanced that barring hardware issues, one can hold onto them for a very long time, too.
To be honest, with the M1+16GB, I wouldn’t be surprised if I kept it as long as my laptops (7+ years).
I do agree that it’s likely a very difficult undertaking.
I’ve tried the Surface and I definitely feel simply slapping on MacOS on the iPad and adding touchscreen support isn’t the way to go if they want to retain a good tablet experience. Sure, you pretty much get full software support. Alas, you’ll likely need a mouse or stylus more often than not since the interface for most programs isn’t designed for fat fingers.
I’m always shocked with so many people getting it (in my opinion) wrong in an Apple forum.
First of all, this has nothing to do with avoiding cannibalism, because if they didn’t do everything you ask for and someone else did, they would eat the market. Also, Apple has a great record doing that with other products, and they’d be more than happy to create the ultimate PC-tablet (in case they could) and eat PC sales.
10 years ago there was a huge market competition between tablets and tablet-PC. The former won, because no one (of course with exceptions) likes to use a PC interface with fingers, and many other things (if I need to handle the legacy stuff of PCs, I use a PC).
So it’s nothing about “artificial limitations”, it’s about design decisions, that have worked very well. Even with the very slight YoY decrease, the iPad sells way better than all competitors. The correct way to expand in the professional field (which by the way, is a veeery wide word) is creating use cases adapted to this paradigm.
It’s with an indirect UI, complex file system, etc. how the iPad Pro would really become a niche product.
First of all, this has nothing to do with avoiding cannibalism, because if they didn’t do everything you ask for and someone else did, they would eat the market. Also, Apple has a great record doing that with other products, and they’d be more than happy to create the ultimate PC-tablet (in case they could) and eat PC sales.
10 years ago there was a huge market competition between tablets and tablet-PC. The former won, because no one (of course with exceptions) likes to use a PC interface with fingers, and many other things (if I need to handle the legacy stuff of PCs, I use a PC).
So it’s nothing about “artificial limitations”, it’s about design decisions, that have worked very well. Even with the very slight YoY decrease, the iPad sells way better than all competitors. The correct way to expand in the professional field (which by the way, is a veeery wide word) is creating use cases adapted to this paradigm.
It’s with an indirect UI, complex file system, etc. how the iPad Pro would really become a niche product.
The same way a 20k Mac Pro isn’t capable of any more than a $700 Mac Mini? In theory, of course, but that’s also the case with iPads.
Hey now, don’t go splashing water on hot takes. That just makes steam takes and no one wants that.
Some do.
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And, as ultra niche of a device the iPad Pro is/will be, it’ll still be less of a niche than the 20 million sales a year Mac.
This is revisionist, and it can’t be walked back. They went as hard as they could on that narrative that the iPad was “the best” “replacement” for “old windows” “computers,” and even stopped bothering to update Mac hardware during that time period, likely as a push to make more people consider iPads. That whole “don’t be afraid to cannibalize one of your existing product lines” thing.
They failed miserably and finally realized it after 2-3 years of pushing that nonsense.
In all fairness, they forgot about the Mac for a while due to Intel's failings. However, they did a whole 180 with the knowledge of chips making.
Do we need another thread basically saying, "I bought an iPad Pro expecting MacOS software because the iPad Pro got an M1 chip". History lesson; the Mac got an iPad chip not the other way around - the M1 could just as well been labelled "A14X".
iPad Pro is for the very high end users and so is the Mac Pro. If you do not need it - do not buy it.
The only valid complaint would be that a "cheap" 12.9 inch iPad is lacking in the lineup just like a 15-16 inch MacBook Air is lacking.
iPad Pro is for the very high end users and so is the Mac Pro. If you do not need it - do not buy it.
The only valid complaint would be that a "cheap" 12.9 inch iPad is lacking in the lineup just like a 15-16 inch MacBook Air is lacking.
That’s a weird way of failing… selling twice as many units than the Mac for the last 2-3 years.
Final Cut barely gets the time of day as a Mac app - good luck.
Don’t ever buy tech for what may be. If it doesn’t do what you need it to do now, you bought the wrong device.
It’s just people expecting it to be a mac, when it isn’t. It’s an iPad. You either get used to the way that an iPad works or you buy a mac instead. I don’t understand why people think it needs to be the same thing. There should be improvements for sure, but it’s a new concept really. They will come. But it’s not a mac.
that’s your problem then. Why buy it?
There are plenty of apps that cost much more - but I agree it shouldn’t be a barrier. Though I don’t believe there is a barrier per se, just a choice.
It doesn’t - unless you specifically choose to highlight your point by picking the most expensive model and adding the most expensive keyboard option to it.
Perhaps. But is an iPad the right voice for a programmer? I mean.. it’s Touch first. Coding is not an optimal experience for a touch first device. It’s needs a solid keyboard. It needs a tunnel into to the workings of the computer via a terminal. These are not really things an iPad is best at. A Mac is a better choice I think most devs would agree.
I agree with you. Never buy something hoping it will become something else. I bought my iPad Pro 2 years ago when I wanted a tablet to complement my iPhone and Mac. I'm not complaining about buying the iPad Pro as I've quite easily made my money back on the work I've produced through it. I knew was it was and it fitted those needs.
However, I am starting to tend towards the position that iPad is insufficient for me 2 years later. My work needs and the amount of travel I have to do has increased significantly and I'm really beginning to feel the limitations of iPad OS on the go. The other day whilst travelling I had a client ask to make a change on their website and the iPad just wasn't up to that task so I had to wait to get to my Mac at home. I'm not throwing shade at the iPad as I didn't expect it to achieve that under current iPad OS limitations - it just made me realise how much my needs have changed and how much more efficient I might be without one.
Today, I wouldn't buy an iPad Pro as what I really need is either a Windows/Mac laptop with a stylus/ drawing capabilities. Unfortunately Apple doesn't sell that so I'm starting to look beyond the walled-garden. Funny thing is, if Apple are hoping we buy both an iPad and Mac, their business decisions are starting to steer me towards Windows and I could be potentially buying neither a Mac/ iPad for my next device.
As much as I've been a huge fan and proponent of iPad, I'm started to really feel the frustration OP feels. I don't think I'd buy an iPad again in this moment of time unless Apple give me some reason to hope iPad OS will mature into something more capable on Monday. I will definitely keep the iPad Pro I currently have for as long as possible.
Funny thing is I agree with you that Surface isn't necessarily as good a tablet experience. But trying the Surface Pro 8 and Samsung GalaxyBook2 360 yesterday for a good hour at the store, I really didn't mind it not being a good tablet. As mentioned above, my workflows are starting to become impeded by iPad OS as I'm travelling more, and I think there's a case to be made that being iPad only on the go is hurting my work more than aiding it. Whilst 2 years ago, I needed a tablet, today I actually don't necessarily require a tablet, but a machine with a screen to draw on. For someone like myself, the Surface or Samsung GalaxyBook2 360 is starting to look like a better proposition as it is a full Windows computer with drawing capabilities. Then when you reach home you can plug them into a monitor and have a larger screen to work off.
Smartphones are big enough and optimised to fill the consumption void that most people use iPad for. And from a creative standpoint, when I'm drawing for my design business, I just need a good stylus and a good drawing programme. The rest of the time I need a capable computer for website designs, writing documents, spreadsheets, etc.
I think that's where peoples frustration has grown out of. Our phones today are more than capable of filling the iPad space that Steve Jobs mentioned in the launch keynote. And then our laptops have grown thinner and more capable making a tablet feel even less necessary. The current MacBooks are a much easier value proposition for consumers to understand than an iPad Pro. This is why I think WWDC 20022 is a very important one for really cementing why someone would need or want an iPad over a MacBook/ Windows machine.
Having said all that, I don't empathise with people who buy iPad and then complain it isn't a MacBook. One can quite easily find the current limitations of iPad OS by doing their research online or going to the store to test these devices out. Hence why if I choose to buy another device soon for my work during travels, it won't be iPad and I won't be making a thread complaining about how the iPad wasn't a MacBook.
I have a 2020 iPad Pro with basically a Surface Pro case and a Pencil and it does almost everything I want from a computer. Great for watching video on the couch but also great for spreadsheets, inventory, note taking, reading, and easy to travel with. I also bike everywhere and every little bit I can save on space/weight is appreciated.
I know it’s capable of more and iPadOS is limiting the potential but I have an M1 MacBook Air that barely gets any use outside of playing Cities Skylines. My iPad is generally preferable for what I use my computer for. I know a could have gotten a cheaper iPad and been fine but I bought refurbished and in that market, an extra $70 for ProMotion and FaceID made sense for me.
If the machine doesn’t work for you now, then I’d recommend getting a different one. Apple sells way more cheap iPads than higher end ones. I don’t know that the relatively small market for the more powerful iPads makes them a particularly great investment of development resources. As the processing improvements of today’s high end machines trickle down the line over the next few years, that may change. But currently, the majority of iPads out there are incapable of running the “pro”applications you want, and considering the lifecycle of iPads, this is likely to be the case for years to come. For now, Apple seems to be content supporting iPads for a long time and slowly adding new features and more complexity as the slower, older devices lose support. This is great for the large segment of its customers that are institutional (like schools and businesses) and casual users that upgrade infrequently. I wouldn’t bet on them changing that strategy any time soon. The Pro models are great for enthusiasts (like me) and those that want 13” iPads. But I don’t think that’s a big enough market for them to make big changes.
TL;DR: If the limitations of the iPad bug you, Apple is more than happy to sell you a Mac instead.
I know it’s capable of more and iPadOS is limiting the potential but I have an M1 MacBook Air that barely gets any use outside of playing Cities Skylines. My iPad is generally preferable for what I use my computer for. I know a could have gotten a cheaper iPad and been fine but I bought refurbished and in that market, an extra $70 for ProMotion and FaceID made sense for me.
If the machine doesn’t work for you now, then I’d recommend getting a different one. Apple sells way more cheap iPads than higher end ones. I don’t know that the relatively small market for the more powerful iPads makes them a particularly great investment of development resources. As the processing improvements of today’s high end machines trickle down the line over the next few years, that may change. But currently, the majority of iPads out there are incapable of running the “pro”applications you want, and considering the lifecycle of iPads, this is likely to be the case for years to come. For now, Apple seems to be content supporting iPads for a long time and slowly adding new features and more complexity as the slower, older devices lose support. This is great for the large segment of its customers that are institutional (like schools and businesses) and casual users that upgrade infrequently. I wouldn’t bet on them changing that strategy any time soon. The Pro models are great for enthusiasts (like me) and those that want 13” iPads. But I don’t think that’s a big enough market for them to make big changes.
TL;DR: If the limitations of the iPad bug you, Apple is more than happy to sell you a Mac instead.
I would caution anybody buying devices based on a possible future benefit. Especially a rather expensive piece of equipment. If “what is” fits your needs, go for it, if not - do not buy it until it does, IMO.
So many people on these forums got excited after the arrival of an M1 iPad Pro, assuming Apple would come up with something equally remarkable software-wise. Well, so far Apple did not and they never promised they would.
Being a few days away from the WWDC, however, I would also wait and see what changes Apple brings to iPad OS 16 and if any of those justify you keeping your iPad.
Let’s get real - an iPad running iPad OS 15 is just a big iPhone, offering better multitasking due to its screen size. Then there is a portability bonus, which, ironically, is being lost the moment we combine a 12.9” iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. And, of course, it is great for those using an iPad to draw, illustrate or annotate with a Pencil. If none of this matters to you, you are definitely better off with an M1 MBA, starting at 999$. Going with MBA will also save you about 450$ vs iPad Pro 12” + Magic Keyboard setup.
I am probably one of the few people using my Apple gear like this:
iPhone - 70% of the time
iPad Air 4 - 25% of the time
MBP 13” - 5% of the time (very rarely and only due to existing iPad OS limitations)
I use iPad vs MacBook for the following reasons:
- it is smaller and lighter to carry around, as my work is very mobile;
- it has a virtual keyboard in multiple languages/layouts, as I work with three different ones, so any physical keyboards, incl. the magic ones, are of no use to me;
- my iPad use use is very simple (Safari, Notes, Pages, Numbers and Spotify, mostly, with occasional Netflix and VLC).
That is pretty much it.
PS Just as an anecdote, yesterday I saw a man on the bus video-chatting to someone from his 13” MBP, so go figure!
So many people on these forums got excited after the arrival of an M1 iPad Pro, assuming Apple would come up with something equally remarkable software-wise. Well, so far Apple did not and they never promised they would.
Being a few days away from the WWDC, however, I would also wait and see what changes Apple brings to iPad OS 16 and if any of those justify you keeping your iPad.
Let’s get real - an iPad running iPad OS 15 is just a big iPhone, offering better multitasking due to its screen size. Then there is a portability bonus, which, ironically, is being lost the moment we combine a 12.9” iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. And, of course, it is great for those using an iPad to draw, illustrate or annotate with a Pencil. If none of this matters to you, you are definitely better off with an M1 MBA, starting at 999$. Going with MBA will also save you about 450$ vs iPad Pro 12” + Magic Keyboard setup.
I am probably one of the few people using my Apple gear like this:
iPhone - 70% of the time
iPad Air 4 - 25% of the time
MBP 13” - 5% of the time (very rarely and only due to existing iPad OS limitations)
I use iPad vs MacBook for the following reasons:
- it is smaller and lighter to carry around, as my work is very mobile;
- it has a virtual keyboard in multiple languages/layouts, as I work with three different ones, so any physical keyboards, incl. the magic ones, are of no use to me;
- my iPad use use is very simple (Safari, Notes, Pages, Numbers and Spotify, mostly, with occasional Netflix and VLC).
That is pretty much it.
PS Just as an anecdote, yesterday I saw a man on the bus video-chatting to someone from his 13” MBP, so go figure!
I don’t know that there’s really a good business case for a 13” “cheap” iPad. The only spot a 13” “cheap” iPad really fits into the lineup would be as an Air variant, somewhere in the $700-800 range. That's too much for a general consumer to pay for a midrange tablet. Once you start getting up there, that’s laptop replacement territory and the thriftier folks this model would target would add up the accessory costs and then buy a MacBook Air. For users of the iPad Pro 13 who just want a “less pro” big iPad, they’ll just get a $200-300 discount, which isn’t really great for Apple unless it boosts iPad sales as a whole fairly significantly.
The 15” MacBook Air makes way more sense. It would likely fall in the $1200-$1400 range, which would be fairly in line with the current prices for 15” premium laptops. It’s also a logical replacement for the current 13” MBP so Apple can have its “normal” Macs in the $1000-2000 market and it’s Pro machines at $2000+.
I think you and I are very similar. I've emboldened what you wrote "does almost everything". That's where my frustrations are ultimately coming from. Like yourself, I bought the iPad Pro 2 years ago when I was at that enthusiast level and didn't have too many big workflows. Where the iPad has become a bottleneck for me is when I moved to a professional level + suddenly having more extensive travel needs.
I understand Apple would love to sell me a MacBook as well but it doesn't work like that Apple ? I do think my situation is quite unique. I have a bad back (and had a spinal surgery) so when travelling I take weight and space very seriously. Taking two devices (MacBook and iPad) on the go is a non-negotiable - I need one device that weighs at most 3 pounds or so, and will do everything I need.
I'm considering all my needs very carefully. Where I am is this: I essentially need a full computer for my work tasks which also enables direct drawing input on screen for illustration purposes and will weigh between 2-3 pounds. Apple unfortunately doesn't sell that and I think you're on the money that they're not changing that anytime soon. I absolutely love iPad but I can't wait years for iPad OS to reach the professional levels I need right now.
I would caution anybody buying devices based on a possible future benefit. Especially a rather expensive piece of equipment. If “what is” fits your needs, go for it, if not - do not buy it until it does, IMO.
So many people on these forums got excited after the arrival of an M1 iPad Pro, assuming Apple would come up with something equally remarkable software-wise. Well, so far Apple did not and they never promised they would.
Being a few days away from the WWDC, however, I would also wait and see what changes Apple brings to iPad OS 16 and if any of those justify you keeping your iPad.
Let’s get real - an iPad running iPad OS 15 is just a big iPhone, offering better multitasking due to its screen size. Then there is a portability bonus, which, ironically, is being lost the moment we combine a 12.9” iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. And, of course, it is great for those using an iPad to draw, illustrate or annotate with a Pencil. If none of this matters to you, you are definitely better off with an M1 MBA, starting at 999$. Going with MBA will also save you about 450$ vs iPad Pro 12” + Magic Keyboard setup.
I am probably one of the few people using my Apple gear like this:
iPhone - 70% of the time
iPad Air 4 - 25% of the time
MBP 13” - 5% of the time (very rarely and only due to existing iPad OS limitations)
I use iPad vs MacBook for the following reasons:
- it is smaller and lighter to carry around, as my work is very mobile;
- it has a virtual keyboard in multiple languages/layouts, as I work with three different ones, so any physical keyboards, incl. the magic ones, are of no use to me;
- my iPad use use is very simple (Safari, Notes, Pages, Numbers and Spotify, mostly, with occasional Netflix and VLC).
That is pretty much it.
PS Just as an anecdote, yesterday I saw a man on the bus video-chatting to someone from his 13” MBP, so go figure!
I think they should start making your post required reading before anyone buys an iPad or any other device! ?
I'm in agreement with everything you've said. I'm waiting until after Monday to make any decisions for sure. I'll definitely keep my iPad Pro regardless and not sell it as I'm sure it will get updates for years to come (and then I don't need to shell out money for a new iPad in the future).
The main selling point you mentioned of draw, illustrate or annotate with a Pencil is exactly what I need. But I need a full computer behind that as well when travelling because my needs have grown to become more complex than what they were 2 years ago. Equally, as mentioned before, I have a bad back so I need to be realistic about weight meaning one fully-capable device makes much more sense.