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MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,174
3,827
Lancashire UK
But thats why they have the App Store. The ipad has existed for a decade, why have so few truly pro apps come into existence?
No swap, so apps are limited to only using the amount of RAM onboard, including RAM occupied by the app itself and the OS. So running desktop-grade apps like Final Cut and Logic Pro are currently a pipe-dream, unless i(Pad)OS16 changes everything. Commodore 64s were like this. You know, that computer they made 40 years ago.
 
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PsykX

macrumors 68030
Sep 16, 2006
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Instead of wasting my energy on crafting a FCPX for iPad Pro, Xcode for iPad Pro, etc.

If I were Apple, I would let the iPad switch back and forth between iOS and macOS, depending on if there's a keyboard and mouse attached to it.
 

ericwn

macrumors G5
Apr 24, 2016
12,118
10,910
I get this, but it still shouldn’t cost more than a laptop.

Some of their high end phones and tablets cost more than their lower tiered laptops. That can be expected with many product lines and why is that all of a sudden a problem?
 
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chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,426
2,110
Berlin
Final Cut would be WAY overdue and I don't get why it's not already here yet. I still have hope! :)
 

GuruZac

macrumors 68040
Sep 9, 2015
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Especially if they do plan to offer a 2022 iPad Pro... Wireless charging isn't a feature useful enough to warrant an upgrade. An M2 would even be more laughable than the M1... What could come in a 2022 iPad Pro to make it a worthy upgrade?
Absolutely nothing. And I think that's where Apple is right now. Without better software, it's going to be really hard to justify buying the next iPad Pro when people can pick up the 2021 on sale.
 

GuruZac

macrumors 68040
Sep 9, 2015
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The real Mac chips are the M1 Pro, Max and Ultra.
You do realize there is very little difference in the M1 and M1 Pro? That is particularly true if you don't need intense graphics performance. 8 CPU cores in M1 vs 10 in M1 Pro. But GPU cores is where the biggest difference is (8 in M1 vs 16 in M1 Pro). I understand the more powerful versions can offer big performance gains, but the M1 is still a high performance chip and will outperform the best chip in the 2019 16" MacBook Pro in many tasks. I'd say it's a worthy Mac chip.
 

exoticSpice

Suspended
Jan 9, 2022
1,242
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You do realize there is very little difference in the M1 and M1 Pro?
There is a big difference. M1 Pro has 8 P cores and 2 E cores and up to 16 GPU cores. It also includes a Media Engine and support for more monitors and also RAM can be upgraded to 32GB.

Yeah M1 is a worthy chip no doubt.
 

sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,405
13,290
where hip is spoken
Everyone says the reason Apple is crippling the device is to keep from encroaching on the Mac.

With the pricing of the iPad Pro making the iPad Pro a useless purchase cuts the other way. You might sell a $500 iPad Air and not a $2000 iPad Pro. You might get a Mac sale with it, but you might not considering people are holding onto Macs and traditional computers very long periods...

Conversely, if Apple played their cards right by intermixing the Mac and the iPad in an iPad Pro like everyone has been thinking they would. They'd probably increase sales of both devices... You'd have a lot of fresh development on the iPad front that would make more usage of their hardware increasing the chance a user would upgrade the device more often to avail themselves of hardware improvements. If they continue the walk across between the two platforms, like they have started with Universal Control, you can see increased iPad usage driving up Mac sales (as people get interested in new cross walking features that incentivizes them to upgrade from their 2015 MacBooks)...

I think the real reason isn't anything to do with cannibalization, but simply that Apple is struggling to envision how this all should work. They don't want to do what Microsoft has done with its Tablet/Laptop combination and make it all run MacOS and they don't want to end up in a weird place where iPadOS looks like MacOS, but lacks a ton of stuff. They also probably don't want you turning the device off to end up in MacOS or iPadOS. They have a complicated thing to sort of transition the space into. I respect the challenge they have. But they need to start innovating and trying something.

Especially if they do plan to offer a 2022 iPad Pro... Wireless charging isn't a feature useful enough to warrant an upgrade. An M2 would even be more laughable than the M1... What could come in a 2022 iPad Pro to make it a worthy upgrade?
I bolded the point that I'd like to address.

That is a well-considered explanation. I could agree if I could believe that Apple felt helpless in how to do it, or if they had a perfectionist mindset that prevented them from releasing half-baked solutions. Apple's track record makes it difficult for me to believe that those things are true.

I think that it is a more basic reason... profit. As you correctly pointed out, people tend to hold onto desktop systems longer than mobile devices like phones and tablets.

Apple could have produced an iPad Pro that was capable of supporting desktop workflows back in 2016. Had they don't that, people would hold on to those iPads for as long as they hold onto Macbooks and iMacs. That is a lot of lost revenue.

But Apple produces incremental improvements each year. With the help of Apple-friendly tech blogs, those incremental changes are hyped up to be game-changing must-have features. But once the hyperbole is stripped away by the reality of day-to-day usage, as the OP discovered, those "Pro" features don't have the value that the marketing promoted.

Are there people who can take advantage of all the advanced features that those top tier iPads offer? Absolutely. But if the conversations on MR are any indication (from a more tech-savvy community) far fewer than the people who buy those models.

Each generation of iPad that is released is simply a turn of the crank on the money-making machine. That's not a bad thing... making money is what companies do.

Why does Apple charge upwards of $2000 for an iPad Pro and $300 for a keyboard for it? Because it can. Apple produces base options for each model with storage that "feels" too small. People complain but then many fall in line and do what Apple was wanting them to do... buy the (disproportionately) more expensive model with higher storage.

No... it's not a matter of it being too difficult to do. They're slow-walking these advancements in order fast-track profits.

Many of the regulars here know that I've been on a progressive departure from Appleland on to other devices... and yet I just purchased a 2020 iPhone SE and iPad 9th gen. Why? Because they are incredible tech values.

My iPad 1 is still in service today (housed in a vintage portable TV shell, playing vintage tv shows and commercials). I pre-ordered that on day-1. $499 back in 2011. That's approximately $639 in today's dollars.

I encourage the OP, and others who are feeling like the Apple tech they own is overkill for what they do, not to overcorrect and ditch everything and go to some other platform, but to keep using what they have until it makes financial sense to replace it, and then buy those Apple devices that offer a better value for how you use your devices.

Fight FOMO (fear of missing out). You'll be happier, and you'll be saving money... sometimes a LOT of money. ;)
 
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4743913

Cancelled
Original poster
Aug 19, 2020
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Commodore 64s were like this. You know, that computer they made 40 years ago.

but Commodore 64s actually had "Pro" apps and developers pushed the envelope of what it could do right up until (and after) Commodore released their new Pro computer, Amiga.
 
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Circa1984

macrumors member
Jun 11, 2013
57
98
Question - What advantage would bringing FCP to an iPad give you, if you can run it on a ‘nearly as portable’ laptop?
 

PsykX

macrumors 68030
Sep 16, 2006
2,747
3,926
You do realize there is very little difference in the M1 and M1 Pro?
What ? I'm sure you meant between M1 Pro and M1 Max perhaps ?
Between M1 and M1 Pro, the difference is day and night.

CPU : 60% faster
GPU : 100% faster
RAM bandwidth : 200% faster
RAM size : 32 GB max

I've tried an M1 Pro MacBook Pro at Best Buy and it's ridiculous how it runs circles around my M1 iMac.
 

4743913

Cancelled
Original poster
Aug 19, 2020
1,564
3,716
Question - What advantage would bringing FCP to an iPad give you, if you can run it on a ‘nearly as portable’ laptop?

Question - Why do Apple and a huge segment of their users NEED limits?.. whether it's the AppStore bouncing apps out, users unable to install software, and iPad Pros with their M1 but only capapble of running iPhone apps, some people really need a Nanny...
 
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exoticSpice

Suspended
Jan 9, 2022
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But Apple produces incremental improvements each year. With the help of Apple-friendly tech blogs, those incremental changes are hyped up to be game-changing must-have features. But once the hyperbole is stripped away by the reality of day-to-day usage, as the OP discovered, those "Pro" features don't have the value that the marketing promoted.
Sometimes Apple does improve their product by a huge degree. Take for example the 2021 MBP. The 2021 MBP's were huge improvements when compared to their predecessors.

13" MBP 2020 (4TB ports) -> 14" MBP 2021
16" MBP 2019 -> 16" MBP 2021.

The above mentioned products deserve the hype. These Mac's especially the base models are worth the price.

You can tell the 2021 MBP's were built using the Mac Pros Workflow team.

Apple made them thicker, added beefier cooling, ports. A better DAC, mini-LED and of course the M1 Pro/Max.
I think the screen alone is worth $500 (and maybe more for the 16" MBP) as it's a 1000nit HDR 10000 zone mini-LED panel and Apple is only laptop maker to have that many zones.

If you need these Macs in your workflow they make a big difference than previous models.
 
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MauiPa

macrumors 68040
Apr 18, 2018
3,438
5,084
"no pro apps". give me a break. sure apple has not ported its pro apps over for whatever reason, but even a casual search of what is available yields a lot of "pro" apps for the iPad Pro. Just saying
 

MauiPa

macrumors 68040
Apr 18, 2018
3,438
5,084
I’ve said it a few times since we saw what happened with the 2021 IPad Pro. Apple has painted the iPad Pro into a corner where it will die. It offers very little utility for its price except for very niche workflows. It is also so overpowered for users who do buy it that replacement is unlikely until the device ends up on the obsolete products list.

Take a 1TB 2021 12.9” iPad Pro with 16GB of RAM, M1 Processor, and 1TB of storage. It is unlikely that this device will experience any serious performance reduction over its lifespan since iPad apps are still so restrictive they are targeted to the more common iPad models…

I can’t imagine the market for iPads in that price zone is very large... I’d imagine those who buy a new one prior to obsolete product list or outright breakage is an even smaller market…

But I’m also not convinced we’ll see anything on the IPad. It is pretty clear Apple is really struggling to figure out how they can split the iPad software to best serve the Pro and non-Pro lines.

To me, it is not very hard. Existing macOS apps are all ARM/M1 compatible apps and can run on the iPad or the Mac from a processor perspective. I would offer a “macOS” like mode that is able to be activated once connected to a keyboard and mouse where those apps can run. Back to iPadOS when it isn’t. In a macOS-Lite mode.

But… Apple will do nothing and we’ll all wonder why they let the iPad Pro die off. Just as Microsoft and others are finally figuring out the right place to slot a laptop like tablet.
and so it is said, and so it will be done. Not disagreeing with everything you said, but there are non-apple pro apps that are great for what they do, and there are not many tablets in the spec and performance range of the iPad Pros - you know, speedy SSds, great screens, fast processors. Apple has made a distinction that it is a tablet, not a laptop, agree or not, that is what they have done, and it works great as a tablet. But, you do make great points
 

yabeweb

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2021
821
1,719
If we don't get Final Cut for the M1 iPad Pro at WWDC, I am closing the book on this experiment. I do not need an M1 to read comic books and magazines or run lowend apps that are fine on the iPhone. The $300 iPad will suffice. The iPad "Pro" will have been a failed opportunity with no pro apps. I would never recommend an iPad Pro over the M1 Macbook Air. Apple has even lost Vitticci at this point, which is amazing.
It all depends on the definition of pro app...

Procreate, Affinity Designer / Photo, Luma Fusion and a lot more are perfectly fine for "Pro" usage (whatever pro means).

IF your workflow requires Final Cut, then I think you bought the wrong device, Final Cut was not announced for iPad, and believing fumors it hardly a good purchasing strategy for business oriented people.

Sorry to hear the iPad is not for you, but any iPad can be considereds a pro device, if it fits your needs.

Seems a post for saying If it doesn't what I need it's not a pro device for anyone.
 

cupcakes2000

macrumors 601
Apr 13, 2010
4,037
5,429
but Commodore 64s actually had "Pro" apps and developers pushed the envelope of what it could do right up until (and after) Commodore released their new Pro computer, Amiga.
There are lots of pro apps for the iPad, just none that apple make..

The Amiga was not by any means a pro computer, it was a low end (albeit amazing) home geared all in one, aimed at competing with the ST. True the ‘pro computer’ concept didn’t really exist back then, but the st and the amiga were home computers. IBM compats were the business computers and Apple Macs were the DTP and design computers.
 
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GhostOS

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2022
110
386
Question - Why do Apple and a huge segment of their users NEED limits?.. whether it's the AppStore bouncing apps out, users unable to install software, and iPad Pros with their M1 but only capapble of running iPhone apps, some people really need a Nanny...
I don't get it. Why did you purchase an M1 iPad Pro in the first place if you already knew it's limits? Do you often make $1000+ purchases from tech companies assuming they would improve the product in the future, and then get mad that they didn't do what you assumed they would do?
 

MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,174
3,827
Lancashire UK
but Commodore 64s actually had "Pro" apps and developers pushed the envelope of what it could do right up until (and after) Commodore released their new Pro computer, Amiga.
Correct. I was more pointing out that the iPad is using an antiquated system of resource management, rather than knocking the C64. The C64 was of course a great machine. Except unless if you were a BASIC programmer. In which case it was sh-t and incapable of even nearly making use of the advanced graphics and sound hardware they fitted under the lid. That's why I personally never bought one [/OT]
 
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