iMac 5k Screen burn-in (High Sierra)

[GeneralChang]

Another tidbit that seems to indicate this issue isn't hardware related that frankly I feel kinda stupid for not noticing up till now; When I have a piece of software open on the display, like a Word document, the display will show IR after just a few minutes (visible when switching desktops, logging out, etc). The image will clear once the window is closed, usually in about the same amount of time it took for the retained image to appear in the first place.

However, the dock, menu bar, file and program icons on the desktop, and wallpaper do not display any image retention at all. They are by far the most constant items on that display, and if this were a panel issue I'd expect them to be essentially permanent fixtures by now. But they're not. Hiding the dock, changing the wallpaper, or moving icons on the desktop leaves no "burned-in" image behind at all.

 

[filmak]

Another tidbit that seems to indicate this issue isn't hardware related that frankly I feel kinda stupid for not noticing up till now; When I have a piece of software open on the display, like a Word document, the display will show IR after just a few minutes (visible when switching desktops, logging out, etc). The image will clear once the window is closed, usually in about the same amount of time it took for the retained image to appear in the first place.

However, the dock, menu bar, file and program icons on the desktop, and wallpaper do not display any image retention at all. They are by far the most constant items on that display, and if this were a panel issue I'd expect them to be essentially permanent fixtures by now. But they're not. Hiding the dock, changing the wallpaper, or moving icons on the desktop leaves no "burned-in" image behind at all.

How can this be possible?

 

[NajamQ]

How can this be possible?

He is right. There are some key areas which develop IR very fast and clears equally fast, not the other areas.

Strangely enough if this was a widespread problem, almost all office iMacs would retain sensitive information after someone logs out, which is huge security risk for corporates isn't is?. It affects some hardwares but not others, and it's not exclusive to iMac 5K either. Even some old non-retina iMacs are also having this issue.

And I am an OCD person when it comes to displays. I can't bear even a smudge on it let alone the full blown image retention. Yet, I used this iMac for 3 years straight before even noticing the retention. Roughly around the same time as High Sierra release. Especially the introduction of Metal API which was absent from El Capitan.

I am currently doing a Time Machine backup and may install El Capitan on this weekend to further investigate the problem.
[doublepost=1525982550][/doublepost]

Another tidbit that seems to indicate this issue isn't hardware related that frankly I feel kinda stupid for not noticing up till now; When I have a piece of software open on the display, like a Word document, the display will show IR after just a few minutes (visible when switching desktops, logging out, etc). The image will clear once the window is closed, usually in about the same amount of time it took for the retained image to appear in the first place.

However, the dock, menu bar, file and program icons on the desktop, and wallpaper do not display any image retention at all. They are by far the most constant items on that display, and if this were a panel issue I'd expect them to be essentially permanent fixtures by now. But they're not. Hiding the dock, changing the wallpaper, or moving icons on the desktop leaves no "burned-in" image behind at all.

Same! The wallpaper will never show as retention. Put some icons or windows on it, and it will show retention.

 

[filmak]

He is right. There are some key areas which develop IR very fast and clears equally fast, not the other areas.

Strangely enough if this was a widespread problem, almost all office iMacs would retain sensitive information after someone logs out, which is huge security risk for corporates isn't is?. It affects some hardwares but not others, and it's not exclusive to iMac 5K either. Even some old non-retina iMacs are also having this issue.

And I am an OCD person when it comes to displays. I can't bear even a smudge on it let alone the full blown image retention. Yet, I used this iMac for 3 years straight before even noticing the retention. Roughly around the same time as High Sierra release. Especially the introduction of Metal API which was absent from El Capitan.

I am currently doing a Time Machine backup and may install El Capitan on this weekend to further investigate the problem.
[doublepost=1525982550][/doublepost]

Same! The wallpaper will never show as retention. Put some icons or windows on it, and it will show retention.

Is there any chance that the areas developing IR are the areas with the hotter components at the back of the display?
[doublepost=1525984001][/doublepost]

Put some icons or windows on it, and it will show retention.

but GeneralChang said:

program icons on the desktop, and wallpaper do not display any image retention at all.

 

[NajamQ]

Is there any chance that the areas developing IR are the areas with the hotter components at the back of the display?
[doublepost=1525984001][/doublepost]
but GeneralChang said:

Yes, I do suspect heat plays some role in image retention (At least the retina panels on iMac). However I have been working with professional displays for more than 10 years. Including Dell U2711, which is backlit by cathode and it get's seriously hot in summer and pulls in a lot of wattage, It never developed this type of image retention what we are experiencing here. But at the same time has a lot of room behind the Panel and pixels are not that dense, 109ppi vs 218 ppi on iMac 5K for same screen size.

However, the construction on Apple retina displays are different. The panel and glass are fused together to reduce thickness. While at the same time Pixel density is increased. So in this case, heat will influence, at least to some extent. It's an LCD after all which is traditionally not designed to be this dense, but Apple has been experimenting with different designs and different pixel shapes.

The image retention happens when there is a lot of contrast between an object and a background. For example if you test with checkerboard diagram, it shows highest possible contrast (Black and White). Those isolated pixels get stuck causing retention.

This is most like an OS bug as it's the job of timing controller and display drivers to control the display. Most of evidence is anecdotal is because usually everyone upgrades OS as it rolls out and one of the reasons of owning Mac is to get away from OS reinstall cycles as with windows. Why I experienced absolutely no retention during last 3 years of constantly using the iMac as primary PC? I remember when El Capitan was released, if you opened a really large image like 7000 pixels, it would cause instant kernel panic, which was later "fixed". Imagine the iMac being used for exactly that purpose, editing high resolution photos and an OS bug disables just that, defeats the purpose of it all doesn't it. I miss Steve Jobs.

Just recently new iOS releases stopped third party displays from working on iPhone 8. So probably this is being investigated and will likely be fixed.

 

[filmak]

Yes, I do suspect heat plays some role in image retention (At least the retina panels on iMac). However I have been working with professional displays for more than 10 years. Including Dell U2711, which is backlit by cathode and it get's seriously hot in summer and pulls in a lot of wattage, It never developed this type of image retention what we are experiencing here. But at the same time has a lot of room behind the Panel and pixels are not that dense, 109ppi vs 218 ppi on iMac 5K for same screen size.

However, the construction on Apple retina displays are different. The panel and glass are fused together to reduce thickness. While at the same time Pixel density is increased. So in this case, heat will influence, at least to some extent. It's an LCD after all which is traditionally not designed to be this dense, but Apple has been experimenting with different designs and different pixel shapes.

I don't think that the problem is caused by the panel's elements but from the extra heat from CPU and GPu and HD/ssd etc. iMacs have some heat dissipation issues.

 

[GeneralChang]

Is there any chance that the areas developing IR are the areas with the hotter components at the back of the display?

It doesn't look like it. A program window will leave a retained image behind the dock if I put it there, or in the extreme edges or corners of the display, where my desktop icons usually live. The retained image doesn't dim toward the cooler edges of the display, and it seems to appear out there just as quickly as it does in the center, though I'll admit I haven't actually timed that. Maybe I will one of these days.

 

[boto]

I'm certain this only occurs on Macs using LG panels. They never bothered fixing this issue since 2011 and probably never will.

 

[NajamQ]

I'm certain this only occurs on Macs using LG panels. They never bothered fixing this issue since 2011 and probably never will.

Most likely. Though there isn't enough empirical data to tell it's exclusive to LG panels.

Apple admits IR as a byproduct of IPS technology.

I will install El Capitan to see if there is any change in behaviour.

 

[NajamQ]

An interesting question though. What if I take the iMac to repair centre and ask them to replace the display. Will the new panel from Samsung or with P3 color ?

 

[ignatius345]

I made a post here on Apple Support Forums about the situation but have had to be very careful with the wording. Moderators keep removing the post, stating things like "what is image burn/retention? removed as it is speculation"!!

(Apple Support Forums are trash, in my experience. You can hardly ask a question or report a bug without some self-appointed "expert" pasting in 20 paragraphs of generic troubleshooting steps, and there are trolls left and right who seem to consider it their territory. I generally find these MacRumors forums much more helpful and informative.)

 

[NajamQ]

(Apple Support Forums are trash, in my experience. You can hardly ask a question or report a bug without some self-appointed "expert" pasting in 20 paragraphs of generic troubleshooting steps, and there are trolls left and right who seem to consider it their territory. I generally find these MacRumors forums much more helpful and informative.)

Sometimes the image of company can be stained by few hundred units out of millions they ship. It makes sense they would keep things generic in their official forum to avoid those few hundred units biasing a complete product.

So unofficially we can make educated guess on problems we face and sometimes these bugs are real and get fixed. Apple is not perfect. Yes, iMac 5K is expensive and it's heartbreaking to see any issue with yours, but still you have to live with reality. There will always be some bugs or faulty units slipping through quality control.

 

[adamjackson]

1. does your iMac have screen burn-in, or have you had an iMac with burn-in? What did you do?
2. are there steps I could take to resolve this (i.e. should i take it to an apple store? I do have AppleCare)
3. is it possible that High Sierra could have caused this, or is it more likely that it was just coincidence that I noticed it?

1. Not burn-in but ghosting.
2. I've contacted Apple twice and my AppleCare will run out in one year from today and they say this is normal
3. I've had this issue since day one

Open TextEdit, put your credit card number and passwords in there, initiate screen saver mode and make sure your Apple Watch is off (so your iMac won't auto-unlock). After 10 minutes, the display should turn off if your'e using default settings. Touch your keyboard and you'll be greeted with a password prompt

In clear-view, right behind the login field is your password and credit card number for all to see, ghosted into the panel until a full refresh takes place when unlocking your computer screen

White windows ghost into the display..it's not permanent burn-in but it's a security issue that I really don't like. I don't have this issue on my MacBook Pro only the iMac 5K.

 

[ignatius345]

Sometimes the image of company can be stained by few hundred units out of millions they ship. It makes sense they would keep things generic in their official forum to avoid those few hundred units biasing a complete product.

So unofficially we can make educated guess on problems we face and sometimes these bugs are real and get fixed. Apple is not perfect. Yes, iMac 5K is expensive and it's heartbreaking to see any issue with yours, but still you have to live with reality. There will always be some bugs or faulty units slipping through quality control.

Sometimes if the largest corporation on Earth sells you an expensive computer with a very obvious flaw, you expect it to be dealt with. And where are you getting this "a few hundered units" figure? That's pure speculation. Thanks for dropping by to give us the corporate POV, though.

 

[NajamQ]

Sometimes if the largest corporation on Earth sells you an expensive computer with a very obvious flaw, you expect it to be dealt with. And where are you getting this "a few hundered units" figure? That's pure speculation. Thanks for dropping by to give us the corporate POV, though.

Lol. I am also speculating. My own iMac has this issue. There is no emperical data as to how many iMac are having this issue. I was referring the context to their official forum, which are going to be generic.

If you read through the thread. And actually understand that we are specifically talking about relation of High Sierra with image retention. This issue has only started to get common in recent months.

Are you getting this issue ?

 

[ignatius345]

Lol. I am also speculating. My own iMac has this issue. There is no emperical data as to how many iMac are having this issue. I was referring the context to their official forum, which are going to be generic.

If you read through the thread. And actually understand that we are specifically talking about relation of High Sierra with image retention. This issue has only started to get common in recent months.

Are you getting this issue ?

I am getting this issue. I have about a year left on AppleCare, but it's starting to get worse. My plan is to start hassling Apple about it soon, since everyone's reports indicate that it gets worse over time.

 

[George Dawes]

This is why I'm ditching mac os and going all ios , sick of the crappy hardware apple are making now. My mini was kaput after just 4 years and now this bs. IR on an lcd ?? Doesn't seem to happen on tv's why on an imac ?

The imac 5k is an expensive machine and using cheap lg displays is a perfect example of timbo's pipeline cost cutting attitude. Profit over customer satisfaction nowadays.

The ventilation on this thing is a joke too ( I used a blower to clean out the dust at the rear vent and the fan went from 2000 to 1200rpm instantly ) . The whole make it thinner stuff is pathetic. It's like they're turning macs into glorified fashion accessories

My 5k iMac cost £3.5k after tricking it out to the max , if it only lasts 4 years , that's me finished with apple

Weird how my mac pro from 2006 still boots in mountain lion and works ok though ...

 

[294307]

I am getting this issue. I have about a year left on AppleCare, but it's starting to get worse. My plan is to start hassling Apple about it soon, since everyone's reports indicate that it gets worse over time.

It will get worse and no matter how many display replacements you get, it will come back. I had a Late 2015 iMac with the same issue, and it came back about four months after the panel was replaced.

If you live in the UK and the image retention returns after the first repair by Apple or an Apple Authorised Service Provider, you can get a refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 if your purchase was made on or after the 1st October of that year. Just make Apple aware when you call them that you want to make a consumer law claim for a refund - in law, you would be rejecting the goods for nonconformity to the contract of sale.

 

[ignatius345]

It will get worse and no matter how many display replacements you get, it will come back. I had a Late 2015 iMac with the same issue, and it came back about four months after the panel was replaced.

If you live in the UK and the image retention returns after the first repair by Apple or an Apple Authorised Service Provider, you can get a refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 if your purchase was made on or after the 1st October of that year. Just make Apple aware when you call them that you want to make a consumer law claim for a refund - in law, you would be rejecting the goods for nonconformity to the contract of sale.

I'm in the US, unfortunately. Been procrastinating on this because it doesn't bother me that much (yet) but with a year left on AppleCare, I should probably get the ball rolling. My plan is to sell this thing right before AppleCare expires and use the proceeds for a newer iMac 5K (or whatever exists next year), but I'd feel pretty jerky not addressing this issue first or disclosing it to a buyer.

 

[thefriendshipmachine]

Another tidbit that seems to indicate this issue isn't hardware related that frankly I feel kinda stupid for not noticing up till now; When I have a piece of software open on the display, like a Word document, the display will show IR after just a few minutes (visible when switching desktops, logging out, etc). The image will clear once the window is closed, usually in about the same amount of time it took for the retained image to appear in the first place.

However, the dock, menu bar, file and program icons on the desktop, and wallpaper do not display any image retention at all. They are by far the most constant items on that display, and if this were a panel issue I'd expect them to be essentially permanent fixtures by now. But they're not. Hiding the dock, changing the wallpaper, or moving icons on the desktop leaves no "burned-in" image behind at all.

It is 100% hardware and not software. I had this issue on the 2014 iMac long before High Sierra or Sierra for that matter. I have a 2012 iMac that also has it VERY bad, and my current 2017 iMac is starting to develop it.

Great computers, terrible screens. Such a shame.

 

[George Dawes]

I didn't think LCD could get IR , how is this possible ??

 

[mikeboss]

It is 100% hardware and not software. I had this issue on the 2014 iMac long before High Sierra or Sierra for that matter. I have a 2012 iMac that also has it VERY bad, and my current 2017 iMac is starting to develop it.

Great computers, terrible screens. Such a shame.

my 2017 iMac still does not show any hints of image retention.

 

[GeneralChang]

It is 100% hardware and not software. I had this issue on the 2014 iMac long before High Sierra or Sierra for that matter. I have a 2012 iMac that also has it VERY bad, and my current 2017 iMac is starting to develop it.

Great computers, terrible screens. Such a shame.

That really doesn't match up with the symptoms I'm seeing. It's not a "burnt in" image the way you'd expect, it's almost like the display is picking and choosing specific software elements to retain for whatever reason. I'm not saying that panel burn in hasn't happened on your machines, I'm just saying that it really doesn't look like that's what's happening on mine.

 

[NajamQ]

That really doesn't match up with the symptoms I'm seeing. It's not a "burnt in" image the way you'd expect, it's almost like the display is picking and choosing specific software elements to retain for whatever reason. I'm not saying that panel burn in hasn't happened on your machines, I'm just saying that it really doesn't look like that's what's happening on mine.

You are correct. It's not burn-in, that would be a serious hardware problem. It's image retention and for whatever reason, these retina displays are retaining high contrast elements. Almost as if the pixels are acting as capacitors, discharging over a course of time. It would also makes sense if a certain bug in display drivers could be over charging the pixels.

 

[filmak]

Do you have the brightness set too high, in general?