In 3 years, 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games will be Macs

[mi7chy]

Hmmm not sure I agree. You say useless but we've seen that when a well optimised game is released (RE Village) the max does match a 3080. No credible test I've seen says the 3060 matches the max in raster performance.

MacStories agrees on real Mac Studio hardware. 3080 desktop he mentioned is actually faster since he compared it to 120fps which is Max graphics preset and Ray Tracing enabled. Max graphics without Ray Tracing is 169fps so with the lower Prioritize Graphics preset it's even faster.

I ran REV on mobile 3060 at same 2560x1440 Prioritize Graphics preset and averaged in the 120s fps. Here's baby crib scene for reference.

https://www.macstories.net/stories/...eaturing-metal-3-debuts-on-the-mac-app-store/

I started the game on my M1 Max Mac Studio and Studio Display at 2560 x 1440 with the game’s Prioritize Graphics preset enabled. At those settings, Village generally maintained 60-70 fps with a rare dip into the 50s during one particularly intense scene.

The results aren’t in the same league as a gaming PC with a dedicated graphics card. For example, I’ve seen benchmarks for Resident Evil Village running with an NVIDIA 3080 card that can run the game at over 120 fps. That’s double what I saw with my Mac Studio...

 

[Roll$afe]

MacStories agrees on real Mac Studio hardware. 3080 desktop he mentioned is actually faster since he compared it to 120fps which is Max graphics preset and Ray Tracing enabled. Max graphics without Ray Tracing is 169fps so with the lower Prioritize Graphics preset it's even faster.

This is a word salad. If I try really hard to understand what you have written I have to say that while MacStories is a nice site, they have very little credibility when it comes to gaming.

I ran REV on mobile 3060 at same 2560x1440 Prioritize Graphics preset and averaged in the 120s fps. Here's baby crib scene for reference.

View attachment 2105363

https://www.macstories.net/stories/...eaturing-metal-3-debuts-on-the-mac-app-store/

No offence but I don't know you. Plenty of people on reddit have results that differ from yours.

TLDR: Credible scores only please.

 

[mi7chy]

This is a word salad. If I try really hard to understand what you have written I have to say that while MacStories is a nice site, they have very little credibility when it comes to gaming.

TLDR: MacStories has been around since 2009 with results from real hardware and workload so they have a lot more credibility than an account that's a few days new going by useless synthetic benchmarks and hearsay.

 

[diamond.g]

After 2 years, you can count on one hand how many Xbox Series X and PS5 games were built from the ground up to take full advantage of the hardware. 95% of the games has been released for both current-gen and last gen platforms.

It shows you how conservative developers are and must be.

The hardware install base is everything.

It's going to take time for developers to profitably port AAA games to Macs because the install base hasn't been and isn't there yet. In the original post, I outlined that by year 3, 50% of "AAA capable" computers sold yearly will be Macs. That could be the turning point where more developers will consider porting more games over.

I never once said that by year 3, Macs will have equivalent to or dominate PCs for AAA games. People love to put this statement in my mouth for some reason.

To be fair to MS/Sony they don't have the supply chain chops to keep hardware in stock like Apple does, so yeah devs are making games for the systems people are able to get, with the bonus of the games being able to run on newer hardware (cause it makes the best business sense). This is going to be the case until you can go into a store and easily buy a PS5 or XSX.

Apple doesn't have that as a problem. I've stated that Apple can get AAA games if they pay developers, and it looks like I am not wrong (I still think they should buy a dev house to make 1st party games they can run across devices, but no one else seems to agree).

 

[LeeW]

(I still think they should buy a dev house to make 1st party games they can run across devices, but no one else seems to agree).

It's the way to go for Apple if they see the Mac as a good enough gaming platform, I just don't think they do. That aside, I suspect they know that buying a dev house is a huge commitment. A commitment that is difficult to support as they also know the number of gamers on Mac just isn't high enough to support the cost.

 

[Irishman]

Displays would probably be a weak point in Mac gaming. If you have a gaming PC, you most likely have a VRR display, as they also work well enough in desktop use under Windows. On the other hand, macOS really prefers high-resolution displays, and you can't have both due to limited bandwidth.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t all of Apple’s M1/M2 Pro laptops BOTH VRR AND high resolution?

 

[diamond.g]

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t all of Apple’s M1/M2 Pro laptops BOTH VRR AND high resolution?

Not all, the 13" version is still 60hz.

 

[Irishman]

Indeed, is it gaming capable or gaming credible? Big difference.

My M2 Air on my casual game (World of Warcraft) is great vs an old intel-based Apple device. I can play casually at around 45 fps on my 32-inch 4k with some tweaks to the graphics (turn them down), stays pretty cool. Now, that is still really great vs older devices. But that said, even for a game with a very old engine I can't go into group events without really turning the settings down. Not a great experience. I need a PC for that.

If you need a PC for that, why did you even get a Mac for that? Last point - the M2 MacBook Air is notorious for its thermal throttling, which is something that doesn’t happen with gaming on the M2 MacBook Pro. If you need a laptop with a fan, then get a laptop with a fan. It doesn’t mean that you need a PC for that.

 

[magbarn]

Leaving the vast difference in available games aside, and just considering the hardware, I don't think a MacStudio is a good value for a gamer. In terms of general GPU performance, the 32-core Max is just below the 3060 (non-Ti), while for $2400 you can get a 3070Ti gaming computer, whose GPU is twice as powerful as the Max's. Plus the NVIDIA GPU's have hardware RT, so they are better optimized for gaming.

FP32 TFLOPS
M1 Max: 10.4
3060: 12.7
3070Ti: 21.7

And this value disparity will like grow next year, when we compare the M2 Max with the 4070 (non-Ti):

M2 Max (est.): 14
4070 (est.): 43

If Apple instead leapfrogs to an M3 Max with hardware RT, that would require a new analysis.

Of course, the Max Studio is, by most measures, a much nicer computer than any equally-priced 3070Ti desktop PC—but just not for gaming.

Here’s the thing newer cross platform benchmarks show that the M1 is nowhere near a 3090 killer in gaming. IF it is a function that is hardwired like video processing is in question no doubt the Apple Silicon can be a powerhouse but in gaming the M1 Max is outclassed. With a 3070Ti twice as fast as a M1max let alone a M1 Ultra. Look Here

At least the M1 is faster than the steam deck so with some optimization it can run AAA decently albeit at lower resolutions

The problem with ported Mac games for me is that the graphics fidelity isn’t there. The resolution is the same but the draw distance is nowhere close and the eye Candy settings such as RT on the pc versions are much more.

 

[Irishman]

Not all, the 13" version is still 60hz.

So, everything except for the base model.

That gives Apple room for improvement next year, right?

I don’t have any first hand experience with M1/M2 macs with external monitors, so maybe that’s a weak link between MacOS and external monitors, in that the connection between them cannot pass enough data to satisfy the bandwidth required by both VRR and hi-res simultaneously?

 

[Irishman]

Ok fair enough. I haven't had time to read the majority of the discussion. Are there really posters claiming people buy macs for gaming?

So, I do put my money where my mouth is, and I buy Macs for gaming. So, I’m only one, but I do know that at least one more poster - Homy - also games on his Mac.

 

[Irishman]

TLDR: MacStories has been around since 2009 with results from real hardware and workload so they have a lot more credibility than an account that's a few days new going by useless synthetic benchmarks and hearsay.

And how many thousands of hours of playing Mac games do you have? At least that would help to put into perspective your constant Mac bashing. (That you got burned by a Mac purchase in the past, and now you’re just mad).

 

[LeeW]

why did you even get a Mac for that?

Who said I got it for that?

the M2 MacBook Air is notorious for its thermal throttling

Notorious? How about given it is a fanless device you should expect thermal throttling if you intend to push it hard.

 

[JouniS]

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t all of Apple’s M1/M2 Pro laptops BOTH VRR AND high resolution?

They are, but they are also very small. There are also some 4k 144 Hz gaming monitors in 27" and 32" sizes, which are probably the best compromise. The resolution is not exactly retina, but close enough.

 

[Irishman]

They are, but they are also very small. There are also some 4k 144 Hz gaming monitors in 27" and 32" sizes, which are probably the best compromise. The resolution is not exactly retina, but close enough.

I’m looking into the LG UltraGear 32GP83B-B 1440p monitor as a possible pairing with a possible Mac Studio with the M1 max. I know that the LG doesn’t have VRR, but it is “only” $400, and ticks a lot of boxes me in terms of picture quality and performance. It even has some HDR, although it’s not the same as that found in MacBooks Pro.

Does anyone think it’s worth waiting for a Mac Studio with VRR, and a monitor to match? I have a working Mac, it’s just a dozen years old.

 

[quarkysg]

Does anyone think it’s worth waiting for a Mac Studio with VRR, and a monitor to match?

Is VRR required for a desktop? It's only useful for a notebook where it will save on power use, but will not matter much in a desktop environment IMHO. Likely will never be available for desktops.

 

[jeanlain]

VRR is useful for gaming, to prevent screen tearing and maintain a a smooth gaming experience.
VRR is supported by Monterey for compatible GPUs. The is the case for Apple GPUs.

Note that he's using a MacBook Air, which doesn't come with a VRR display and a game that was released before Monterey.
There is no reason why Mac the Studio shouldn't support VRR if it's connected to a FreeSync display, since the MacBook Air does it.

Intel Macs with recent AMD GPUs should be supported as well, but I haven't seen that tested.

 

[diamond.g]

VRR is useful for gaming, to prevent screen tearing and maintain a a smooth gaming experience.
VRR is supported by Monterey for compatible GPUs. The is the case for Apple GPUs.

Note that he's using a MacBook Air, which doesn't come with a VRR display and a game that was released before Monterey.
There is no reason why Mac the Studio shouldn't support VRR if it's connected to a FreeSync display, since the MacBook Air does it.

Intel Macs with recent AMD GPUs should be supported as well, but I haven't seen that tested.

VRR also, when done correctly, reduces input latency.

 

[Ching123]

Mac can run triple a games, like Resident Evil: Village and Borderlands 3.

But in 3 years time I can tell you now no company will support mac with their future games even if it could run with no issue.

 

[Nugat Trailers]

Mac can run triple a games, like Resident Evil: Village and Borderlands 3.

But in 3 years time I can tell you now no company will support mac with their future games even if it could run with no issue.

Armageddon in under 3 years, I take it.

Being serious, elaborate. Why would no company support Mac with future titles?

 

[Ching123]

Armageddon in under 3 years, I take it.

Being serious, elaborate. Why would no company support Mac with future titles?

Do you really think a company like Bethesda or Rockstar Games would support Mac and add their titles like Skyrim or GTA6?

And do I really have to explain something so common.

 

[diamond.g]

Do you really think a company like Bethesda or Rockstar Games would support Mac and add their titles like Skyrim or GTA6?

And do I really have to explain something so common.

If Apple throws enough money at the problem? Yeah.

 

[Ching123]

If Apple throws enough money at the problem? Yeah.

Apple's already paid CapCom 'enough' to make Mac compatibility. So I don't think triple a games are coming to Mac since Apple only likes money and doesn't like paying companies to make their game compatible with Mac, if no one going to buy it and put bad reviews. Well, that's what they've done to Resident Evil.

 

[diamond.g]

Apple's already paid CapCom 'enough' to make Mac compatibility. So I don't think triple a games are coming to Mac since Apple only likes money and doesn't like paying companies to make their game compatible with Mac, if no one going to buy it and put bad reviews. Well, that's what they've done to Resident Evil.

Apple only has to get ~200k units of RE8 sold on MAS to make back 2 million (assuming that is what Apple paid Capcom). With it getting prominent display in the MAS (last time I checked) getting that many units moved shouldn't take too long. Plus the upcoming expansion (DLC, aka IAP) will net Apple even more money.

 

[Irishman]

VRR is useful for gaming, to prevent screen tearing and maintain a a smooth gaming experience.
VRR is supported by Monterey for compatible GPUs. The is the case for Apple GPUs.

Note that he's using a MacBook Air, which doesn't come with a VRR display and a game that was released before Monterey.
There is no reason why Mac the Studio shouldn't support VRR if it's connected to a FreeSync display, since the MacBook Air does it.

Intel Macs with recent AMD GPUs should be supported as well, but I haven't seen that tested.

Thanks, jeanlain.

That’s super helpful. The LG UltraGear has support for both Freesync and G-Sync, so it should work via HDMI, even though it’s just HDMI 2.0?

So, I don’t have to wait for HDMI 2.1, right?