Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
In 3 years, 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games will be Macs
- Thread starter senttoschool
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Valve was developing Proton for MacOS. But killed it in 2019 after 'a lack of interest from the Mac community'.
I haven't been able to find any record of them actually... you know, interacting with the community, but...
Protons did not land on MAC because MACOS is a closed platform,
Windows games can be migrated to MAC, but need DX ->VK -> Metal.
You can use DXVK ->MoltenVK to complete, but this is a bad method. It may lead to bad BUG.
If the developer uses UNITY, it is easier to transfer to MAC, because it has MAC native API to choose from, that is METAL.
Windows games can be migrated to MAC, but need DX ->VK -> Metal.
You can use DXVK ->MoltenVK to complete, but this is a bad method. It may lead to bad BUG.
If the developer uses UNITY, it is easier to transfer to MAC, because it has MAC native API to choose from, that is METAL.
Apple has been pretty open about dropping support for legacy technologies. Really the only games where it really makes sense to do constant updates are live services games where there is a constant stream of income to support the updates.
Big difference is Resident Evil is a multi-platform games.
And it has to do with this.
That's a Top 50 Upcoming Games video(you can definitely call some of them "killer games"). Look at the clip and tell me how many of the best upcoming computer games will have a MacOS version. Nobody said every single AAA needs to be available on MacOS.
Of course there will always be some exclusive Xbox games, or PlayStation games or Nintendo or PC games but most big games like 90% of them will be available on the 3 big gaming platforms: Windows, Xbox and PlayStation.
Where is MacOS in all this? NOWHERE. It will hardly get a AAA game from time to time and that mostly out of luck.
Also God of War 2018 is a testament of how important Windows has become to AAA gaming as it's a traditional PlayStation Exclusive which nobody expected Sony will allow to be ported on PC, it was actually a surprise. The nice thing is that they flowed with other long time exclusive PlayStation games and taking in consideration the success they had on PC I'm convinced they will continue to launch Exclusive PlayStation games on Windows. For example I'm planning to play Uncharted after I finish God of War on my PC.
The idea is that when it comes to gaming and especially high end gaming(AAA), competitive gaming, online gaming, Windows is so much above MacOS that's ridiculous to attempt to find exceptions on Windows with games that got a port later or aren't available as an argument that gaming on MacOS is not that bad in general. What are exception on Windows are a general rule on MacOS.
You do realize that you are taking about traditional PlayStation exclusive which didn't use to get a PC ports in the past anyway?
If they come later on PC so be it. What does MacOS get? 0 out of the Top 50 upcoming high end games. Yeah the Windows and MacOS situations are definitely comparable, yeah you definitely can't expect much from gaming on MacOS when a PlayStation exclusive see a launch on PC, 2 or 3 years after the original PlayStation launch.
Last edited:
Doesn't matter if they're open about it - the result is a lack of desire to develop games for the Mac.
They'll probably wait until it nears 80% of users before doing so.Yeah well even steam is still not ARM native
Yes, neither my friends nor I recommend developing games on MAC. However,
If Apple's MAC accounts for more than 30% of the game market, it is enough to make us feel that this is beneficial. I will choose to use UE or UNITY to build the METAL version of the game (however, the game created using personal engine will not consider porting because it has no METAL interface).
So what if its a Playstation exclusive list. Have you ever thought maybe these are console + windows exclusives? That is actually entirely Microsoft's position right now. Xbox + Windows exclusive. Windows is just another platform. So you are saying its fine if Windows doesn't get games because they are console exclusives. Well the industry is basically console + windows exclusive. So what is the issue here? Again, its all up to the developers.
The point is, as an actual game developer, Windows is the preferred platform. Stop blaming Apple for this situation. They can lead the developers to water (which they have), but they cannot force developers to drink. They cannot force me to make my game on macOS and I am not going to. The marketshare is a complete joke and my ROI for my business is not favorable by releasing a game on mac. Its not a hardware issue. Nintendo Switch gets WAY more games than macOS and it has even crappier hardware. And no, its not because its "nintendo", remember Wii U? That was a failure because of almost no third party support. Switch is far more successful, more marketshare meaning more of a focus for devs.
Edit: And honestly, the AAA industry is a giant mess right now. Top 50 upcoming games? I bet I will be able to count on one hand the number of those that will be good. I mean Microsoft messed up Halo....HOW?!? How do you mess up Halo to the point where they are doing a complete reset now. How do you make promises "every game from now on will have couch split screen co op", and not follow through with that? AAA games are just lootboxes, battle passes, micro transaction filled messes with buggy and "live services" then the game gets shut down a year later. The way Activision Blizzard is being handled with their attitude towards their workers and not doing anything, similar reports with ubisoft, these companies are not getting any more money from me until they get their act together. E3 is essentially dead. Forspoken is a complete mess. Gaming has been my biggest hobby and its getting worse and worse to be this interested in gaming. I took time off work back in the day to watch and even go to some E3 events.
Last edited:
What you say doesn't make sense. There are a lot of multi-platform games, in translation games that are designed to run on: Windows, PlayStation and Xbox(plus sometimes Switch) plus other platform if they are worth it, I didn't say platform exclusive games need to be lunched on MacOS.
In general Windows didn't used to get ports from PlayStation exclusive games but it started to also such ports, of traditionally PlayStation exclusives, made by studios that are owned by Sony.
MacOS is in a situation in which it generally doesn't get any AAA games no matter if its a platform exclusive or multi-platform. It's quite a huge huge difference vs Windows and that's my point, MacOS is in a way worse situation, so the hole: "Windows also didn't get a God of War Ragnarok port" argument is quite pointless.
Oh the hole innocent Apple. If you ask most games developers why they don't consider MacOS I'm sure a lot will mention Apple as one of the reason. Apple isn't entirely innocent so blaming them isn't unreasonable at all.
The fact that MacOS only supports Metal API is quite a big reason why more games don't get a MacOS port. By contrast all other computers OS's are compatible with multiple APIs, Microsoft doesn't block Vulkan for example.
They haven't lead anybody anywhere to be honest.
Nobody said developers should be forced to do anything and nobody said it's a hardware issue.
The point is, it's been more that 2.5 years since Apple moved to a new chip architecture and they haven't made any significant effort at all to change the situation with AAA gaming support on MacOS. At the end of the day this is what the OP suggested that the paradigm regarding computers capable of playing games will change and MacOS will start to get more and more AAA games. Switch is successful for multiple reasons not just hardware sales but one thing is clear: developers love Switch and Nintendo made it very easy to port games on their console, so much so that Switch gets more AAA ports than MacOS even is has considerably slower hardware.
Even if 3 or 4 games out of that 50 games list I posted would have been announced to also have a MacOS port would have been a huge progress in my book even if the MacOs versions would have been launched later.
Really now? That's not an argument, you can bet whatever you want, it doesn't mean anything.
Funny, there you have it folks, AAA games are becoming bad, it's even an advantage MacOs doesn't get them.
Its not a difference. Its console + Windows exclusive. That is actually how Xbox is being handled. So yes, exclusivity is including the Windows platform.
That is the whole point. If Windows is THE platform for gaming, and its STILL not getting newest titles, what exactly are you and others expecting from macOS here? Windows is far more favorable and even on that platform its not the best situation. Yes GoW Ragnarok and Horzon Forbidden West argument is completely valid because it shows even the almighty BEST PLATFORM EVER!!! windows is not perfect.
So again, what are you and others on this thread yelling about and complaining about that Apple isn't supporting gaming? Windows does, and as I mentioned, its not perfect over there.
Windows has the 4090, which a lot of these topics turn in to "Macs need 4090 for games!!!" yet again Windows is NOT perfect with getting games either.
It depends on how good of a programmer you are. If you know your stuff you can optimze it well. At WWDC21 Apple revealed that 4A and Larian Studios had asked them for help for optimizing Metro Exodus and BG3 for Apple Silicon and Metal and Apple had happily helped them for free. Metro Exodus uses MoltenVK and got a big performance boost by the optimization.
Well, you certainly don't have to agree with me. But you're going to have to explain why you believe that sinking millions into advertising only attracts people to game on Windows, Playstation and Xbox, but not on MacOS?!?
Last edited:
To be fair AS was released 2020 and we got Metro Exodus in 2021. Less than two months after RE Village we also got the Winter Expansion with Shadows of Rose last month. If you only play AAA I understand your disappointment but there have been other popular quality games since 2020. We’ve had or will have
2021: Metro Exodus, Total War: Rome Remastered, Subnautica: Below Zero, Frostpunk and more
2022: RE Village, Total War: Warhammer 3, Prodeus, Xplane 12, Psychonauts 2 and more
2023: RE Village Winter Expansion, Disney Dreamlight Valley, Gas Station Simulator, Juno: New Origins, No Man’s Sky, Grid Legends, Everspace 2, Isonzo, Firmament, The Last Night, In the Valley of Gods, Kerbal Space program 2 and more
It’s unreasonable that people expect the size of the selection of Mac games to be as large as PC games or else it ”sucks” when they know Mac only has 2.61% of Steam user base. Apple actually cares about gaming on Mac more than some people think and is aware of the situation. Tim Cook wrote way back in 2015 in a letter to Phil Schiller ”I think the lack of gaming (along with the lack of native productivity apps) are the main reason the Mac App Store is dormant.” Phil Schiller answered they had tried but failed due to bad sales. That can be discussed but they have offered their support whenever developers have asked for help, at least for some years. At WWDC21 Apple revealed that 4A and Larian Studios had asked them for help for optimizing Metro Exodus and BG3 for Apple Silicon and Metal and Apple had happily helped them for free.
At the same time many developers don’t care because of Mac’s small market share and the huge profit they get from consoles and PC. It’s the same situation with Linux and that’s why Valve had to open its wallet and find a solution for playing Windows games on SteamOS. Finally just like Valve with Proton/Wine Apple took the matter in their own hands last year and started to collaborate with game studios and invest in exclusive titles on MAS. That can be a trend in the future to make MAS and Apple Arcade more attractive.
Another obstacle is that many game engines aren’t written for Mac. Horizon and Death Stranding use Decima. Fromsoftware’s games like Elden Ring, Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro use Dantelion. God of War and The Last of US each have their own special engines. Dead Space uses Frostbite. It would cost a lot to first port the engine and then the game itself. By helping Capcom and Hello games financially? Apple has helped to create two new game engines which will be useful and cheaper for porting future titles. I think that’s a good solution and start, helping devs to port their engines and their first Mac game for exclusive titles on MAS.
In just 2 month Capcom released two titles (RE Village + Winter Expansion). You don’t expect them to release another game like RE 4 just after two months when it’s not even out on other larger platforms yet. They will need some time and money from the released titles before they consider to jump to the next Mac title.
By whom?
Need to hear the names of devs and studios who demonstrate your stated lack of desire to develop games for the Mac.
It's not about the overall selection but the specific games you want to play. Macs "suck" for gaming from my perspective, because most games I want to play are not available, and even the ones that are available are often inferior versions (largely because of Aspyr). Similarly, consoles "suck" for gaming, because most of the games I want to play are inferior versions (often because they lack key features such as mods).
Computers are boring interchangeable beige boxes. Games are not.
If it's console+Windows it's a multi-platform game.
There was a survey a few years ago which showed that Windows it the preferred platform for game development in general, so preferred even vs iOS or Android. Windows exclusive games are basically games developers didn't have the resources to port to consoles. A lot of times successful Windows games will get later console ports. MacOS doesn't even get ports from game developers that have resources for such a thing.
Look, your insistence that Windows should get traditional PlayStation games the same day these games are launched on Sony's platform makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't even prove anything other than the fact that Windows has become so important for gaming in general that not even Sony can ignore it.
Nobody said Windows is the perfect gaming platform or "the almighty BEST PLATFORM EVER!!!"(LOL), I simply said it way way above MacOS when it comes to high end, competitive, online gaming. At no point you wrote anything that contradicts that statement.
Also regaling your question of "what I would expect from MacOS" in terms of gaming, I already said: 3-4 games to be announced out of that 50 games list I linked. It's not an unreasonable expectation at all. Heck I would settle with at least 2 games announced but the hard truth is that the number is 0, that is ZERO.
Nobody said MacOS should be compatible with every single AAA that gets announced, that it should be perfect in getting every AAA game and nobody said that Windows is the one that offers such a thing. Instead of accusing me of "yelling about and complaining" why don't you pay attention to what I write and try to make logical arguments? Wouldn't that be better?
Windows doesn't need to be perfect with getting games, neither does MacOS, if MacOS would be able to get at least 5% of the AAA games Windows gets in a year it would be a huge improvement vs the current situation.