In 3 years, 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games will be Macs

[sunny5]

Yup! The Mac has killer titles for fans of different genres, including examples already discussed like No Man’s Sky, Resident Evil Village, and Balder’s Gate III! Like fun boomer shooters like Prodeus? Got you covered there, too!

I guess you dont know the definition of "KILLER TITLES". For example Halo series are killer titles for Xbox and God of War series are killer titles for PS. Do you get it? Mac does NOT have any killer titles to attract people to Mac. Those games you mentioned are several years/months old and/or PC is still a main platform, not Mac. Beside, those are ONLY a few games while PC has tons of them. Do you get it? For Nintendo, they have their own killer titles and this is why they sell well despite their poor gaming performance.

So tell me, what's the killer title for Mac? NONE. And do you really think those games attract people to Mac? Guess what? Mac itself is the main reason why people dont buy and play games. You clearly have no idea what's happening and you are def not a gamer after all.

You are making a shameful excuses by justifying that some games are supported on Mac.

 

[diamond.g]

Boundary recommends a 2060.

As a follow up, Dead Space remake recommends a 2070.

 

[nasmdhgf]

Then what's the point of your misleading video? Getting high FPS for indoor with M2 Max vs low FPS for outdoor with M1 Max is a fair comparison? If you wanna argue about that, test both M1 Max and M2 max on a same game at a same location.

The point is Mac gaming performance still sucks compared to Nvidia RTX 30 series which is not even 5nm based as you keep ignoring that from the beginning and I dont need to hear your misleading information by showing meaningless benchmark scores which doesn't even represent actual performance.

"Capcom (RE Village), Hello Games (No Man's Sky), Codemasters (Grid Legends), Larian Studios (Baldur's Gate 3), 4A Games (Metro Trilogy), Eidos/Crystal Dynamics (Tomb Raider Trilogy, Deus Ex) and other devs seem to disagree."
And I asked again, is that all? Most of them released several years ago. Baldur's Gate 3 might be only new game but that's only one then compared to a lot of games available from PC.

So it's been almost 3 years and yet only few native games are available for Apple Silicon Mac which proves that Mac sucks for gaming.

For MAC fans, these games are enough to prove that they can "run" AAA games, and the number of frames in the room is good [big laugh]
However, they don't need to worry, because Vulkan and metal can optimize the multi-core CPU efficiency under small resolution, so that most games with stuck pictures can run smoothly.
If the development company of Red Dead Redemption 2 can try to move the game to Macbook or IOS mobile phone.
Let the game player test the frame rate of the game when it is full of special effects, distant scenery, the highest picture quality and the highest resolution. This is quite convincing.

 

[sunny5]

For MAC fans, these games are enough to prove that they can "run" AAA games, and the number of frames in the room is good [big laugh]
However, they don't need to worry, because Vulkan and metal can optimize the multi-core CPU efficiency under small resolution, so that most games with stuck pictures can run smoothly.
If the development company of Red Dead Redemption 2 can try to move the game to Macbook or IOS mobile phone.
Let the game player test the frame rate of the game when it is full of special effects, distant scenery, the highest picture quality and the highest resolution. This is quite convincing.

lol, no. Not even close. Tell that to Mac gamers from Reddit. They are very furious about lack of games and that's why many of them use emulators.

 

[Irishman]

I guess you dont know the definition of "KILLER TITLES". For example Halo series are killer titles for Xbox and God of War series are killer titles for PS. Do you get it? Mac does NOT have any killer titles to attract people to Mac. Those games you mentioned are several years/months old and/or PC is still a main platform, not Mac. Beside, those are ONLY a few games while PC has tons of them. Do you get it? For Nintendo, they have their own killer titles and this is why they sell well despite their poor gaming performance.

So tell me, what's the killer title for Mac? NONE. And do you really think those games attract people to Mac? Guess what? Mac itself is the main reason why people dont buy and play games. You clearly have no idea what's happening and you are def not a gamer after all.

You are making a shameful excuses by justifying that some games are supported on Mac.

Ohhh, now I see! Killer titles are only the much shorter list of games from two franchises!

Please, explain using only facts and logic why the examples you’ve provided of killer titles are more than platform exclusives. What, at this point in time, is killer about Halo Infinite? It’s not new at this point. Taking the title free to play was a desperate cash grab by 343. Following the examples of Warframe and Destiny.

God of War is not as weak an example of killer title, because at least its newest iteration is a new game, but you still need to demonstrate using facts and logic that it’s more than just a platform exclusive.

Sorry, but you’re conflating killer titles with exclusive ones.

 

[Ethosik]

PC doesn't have God of War Ragnarok. Therefore, Windows PCs SUCK at gaming!

/s

As was posted, things are being confused between killer titles and exclusives. It wasn't too long ago where Windows didn't even have modern Halo games. We JUST got Persona 3/5 on PC. Persona 3 came out when again? How long did it take to come to PC? We JUST got Spider-Man and Miles Morales on PC. We recently got God of War on PC. We still don't have Ragnarok and Horzon Forbidden West on PC. And PCs support 4090s!!!!! And you expect things to just come to Mac if even the PC has issues?

You guys are basically saying the same thing without saying the same thing. The reason we have a lot of what is mentioned on Windows PC is due to marketshare. If the Nintendo Switch had very poor marketshare (ahem Wii U times and older Nintendo consoles suffered from third party support), we wouldn't have Doom or others on Switch.

Its not because macs don't have 4090s that we don't have games. Its the fact that Macs have very little marketshare.

I have said this elsewhere, even if Apple TODAY were to make an equivalent of a 5090 or a 6090 GPU, it still wouldn't matter as a gamer perspective. I would lose 500+ games on Steam if I move my "gaming" system to a Mac.

 

[sunny5]

Ohhh, now I see! Killer titles are only the much shorter list of games from two franchises!

Please, explain using only facts and logic why the examples you’ve provided of killer titles are more than platform exclusives. What, at this point in time, is killer about Halo Infinite? It’s not new at this point. Taking the title free to play was a desperate cash grab by 343. Following the examples of Warframe and Destiny.

God of War is not as weak an example of killer title, because at least its newest iteration is a new game, but you still need to demonstrate using facts and logic that it’s more than just a platform exclusive.

Sorry, but you’re conflating killer titles with exclusive ones.

All games were developed from PC and that's the hard fact. Is it really hard to understand? Warframe and Destiny? Do they even support Mac? Tell me. Who even develop games on Mac? Mobile games? Then that's a totally different story. This is why Apple is NOT interested in Console/PC games instead of mobile games.

Also, Mac itself is the major problem as a platform to attract gamers and I guess you totally missed the point. At least, Consoles and PC have killer titles and exclusive unlike Mac. No Man’s Sky, Resident Evil Village, and Balder’s Gate III supported on Mac? SO WHAT? That's only a FEW games supported and PC already have those so WHY would anyone play games on Mac?

Overall, Mac is NOT a good platform to play game. Supporting only few games doesn't really prove anything at all. It only proves how bad it is.

 

[Irishman]

All games were developed from PC and that's the hard fact. Is it really hard to understand? Warframe and Destiny? Do they even support Mac? Tell me. Who even develop games on Mac? Mobile games? Then that's a totally different story. This is why Apple is NOT interested in Console/PC games instead of mobile games.

Also, Mac itself is the major problem as a platform to attract gamers and I guess you totally missed the point. At least, Consoles and PC have killer titles and exclusive unlike Mac. No Man’s Sky, Resident Evil Village, and Balder’s Gate III supported on Mac? SO WHAT? That's only a FEW games supported and PC already have those so WHY would anyone play games on Mac?

Overall, Mac is NOT a good platform to play game. Supporting only few games doesn't really prove anything at all. It only proves how bad it is.

It’s kinda hard to hear your point, when it’s being drowned out by the sound of moving goalposts.

But whatever, PCs suck at gaming cuz Halo started out as a Mac exclusive. Halo 2 though Infinite wouldn’t exist without the Mac!

Still waiting for your proof that killer titles can only be platform exclusives, as in the only named examples you’ve given.

 

[sunny5]

It’s kinda hard to hear your point, when it’s being drowned out by the sound of moving goalposts.

But whatever, PCs suck at gaming cuz Halo started out as a Mac exclusive. Halo 2 though Infinite wouldn’t exist without the Mac!

Still waiting for your proof that killer titles can only be platform exclusives, as in the only named examples you’ve given.

Why do you need proof for "that killer titles can only be platform exclusives, as in the only named examples you’ve given"? You totally miss the point. Beside, they are created from PC even for PS and Nintendo so why do you even argue? Tell me how many NEW games available on Mac? Oh, how about do Apple willing to support games on Mac?

The point is, all games are PC based even PS and Nintendo as they need to develop games on PC and Mac is such a poor platform to support games. If you really think only few titles are good enough, then you are wasting your time and money on Mac.

 

[Nugat Trailers]

If you keep wasting times on meaningless conversations with false information and trolling, I will ignore this forum. Mac will never be good for gaming.

Ooooooooh, I'll take you up on that challenge!

The Mac has a 90% marketshare of the video game industry!
The Mac makes 149% of the Planetary Domestic Product, aka PDP, every day in video game sales!
There have been 753 different AAA titles released in the last 15 minutes for Mac, each of which made professional video game reviewers cry!
Tim Cook was hired because of his exceptional skills at Call of Duty, and has won 15 of the last 18 tournaments!
Apple invented the 360 noscope headshot!

Can you ignore us and go away now.

 

[nasmdhgf]

You already got a good reply from @leman, but I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. There's more to game development than choosing a graphics API. Think about the game you want to do first, check what tools/engines are available to you, if they meet your requirements and then decide.

I'd also be careful with Vulkan. You depend on MoltenVK. I've also heard stories about Apple rejecting apps using Molten. I don't know for what reason or it's not true at all. But it is clear that Apple wants to push Metal and I can see them rejecting anything that isn't native Metal in the future.

If I remember correctly, MoltenVK uses metal at the bottom. I don't understand why Apple is so extreme. Even in order to promote metal, this will only have a negative effect (because it is equivalent to a tyrant). Let more developers hate metal or Apple.
Great, continue to reject vulkan+MoltenVK and opengl. In the future, fewer developers will make games for them, and their games will only become worse and rarer. Ha ha ha.😆

 

[galad]

MoltenVK is just a library that uses Metal, it doesn't do anything weird at all.
The "stories" you heard (I wonder what you heard exactly) were because they had mistakenly compiled in a symbol that was only supposed to be used on macOS on iOS too, a long time ago. They fixed it and that was it. https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK/issues/950

I think we need a [citation needed] tag even here

 

[diamond.g]

I wonder how long until DX12 can run via crossover. I am curious to see how Forspoken runs on Apple hardware.

 

[Nugat Trailers]

Unironically, probably very badly at the moment. There's reports of systems with 32 GB RAM and 3080s getting significant stutter.

 

[diamond.g]

Unironically, probably very badly at the moment. There's reports of systems with 32 GB RAM and 3080s getting significant stutter.

They were not kidding about the system requirements. My 6900 averages 40fps on Ultra-High at UW 1440P (native). Load times are crazy fast though, which is cool. I'd like to see games on macOS follow in that footstep at least.

 

[nasmdhgf]

MoltenVK is just a library that uses Metal, it doesn't do anything weird at all.
The "stories" you heard (I wonder what you heard exactly) were because they had mistakenly compiled in a symbol that was only supposed to be used on macOS on iOS too, a long time ago. They fixed it and that was it. https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK/issues/950

I think we need a [citation needed] tag even here

But there is no doubt that Apple is tough and not liked by game developers.
They can fully absorb OPENGL and develop their own METAL to form benign competition. Now they use the method of tyrants. They can only allow programmers to develop games using their own APIs. That's ridiculous.😊

 

[Irishman]

But there is no doubt that Apple is tough and not liked by game developers.
They can fully absorb OPENGL and develop their own METAL to form benign competition. Now they use the method of tyrants. They can only allow programmers to develop games using their own APIs. That's ridiculous.😊

If you don’t mind me asking: what is informing your takes on Apple’s motivations and their attitudes toward game developers? Are you a developer yourself who’s had some bad experiences with Apple?

Are you a developer of any sort?

 

[nasmdhgf]

If you don’t mind me asking: what is informing your takes on Apple’s motivations and their attitudes toward game developers? Are you a developer yourself who’s had some bad experiences with Apple?

Are you a developer of any sort?

I am a personal game developer using OpenGL. I heard this news in the process of developing the game. I have given up publishing the game on Apple, because I don't want to relearn the immature metal and use the unfamiliar API to rebuild the project, let alone learn the immature Vulkan and use the immature MoltenVK to build the program suitable for Apple (metal).
At that time, my friends and I thought that Apple was unwise.
They may give up supporting some old interfaces, which may bring lower costs to the company, but they will also lose the support of many developers, and the result is that the ecosystem has not improved.
I think they will give up more things in the future.
Many of the old games currently logged into Apple have been created using unity, because it can support metal.
Only IOS is popular with game manufacturers on Apple's platform, and MAC is not.
In my country, many companies (using unity) also choose IOS instead of MAC.
I remember that one company still insisted on using opengl. When many players strongly urged them to turn to vulkan, they did not listen to their opinions, because the company set up the project in 2018 and invested a lot of money in development, in order to ensure stability. If using immature vulkan, it would lead to program collapse, which would only make the situation very bad.
This is the main reason why the company is unwilling to turn to VK.

 

[nasmdhgf]

A mature and powerful platform should be inclusive of all kinds of works, even if they use engines (or APIs) with poor reputation.
This is why Windows is the popular game platform, not Linux and Mac, because on Steam, I see that the occupancy rate of Linux is only about 1%. Windows accounts for more than 95%, which is why some developers say:
The sales of Macs are too small, just for the service of so few players. It is not worth spending time and spirit to learn metal.
What he said is reasonable. Because games are created to make money, which is different from open source software. We don't like Android because Android games are easy to be refused payment, and game players are more willing to accept open source and free.

 

[Bento.Box]

It’s a chicken or the egg problem. People use Windows because it runs their games. And devs use windows because the gaming machines run it.

Osx only runs on apple and their performance hardware is expensive.
Linux is great, but complex GPU setups with proprietary drivers translating DX12 are just a mess with little performance. And the window managers were (rightfully) not designed with gaming in mind.

Games are among the hardest pieces of software to port.

 

[yellowhelicopter]

I don't know what future holds for Macs in terms of AAA gaming, but right now, after 2 years since M* Macs were released, IMO Mac gaming is exactly in the same state as it was before. No interest from major game publishers, no much interest from average Mac users either. Only ONE modern big AAA title was released for Mac - RE8. The new upcoming RE title from CAPCOM (RE4 remake) won't be released on Macs, so it seems RE8 was just one time deal. Almost no recent or upcoming big AAA titles were announced, no God of War, no The Last of Us, no Horizon, no Syberia: The World Before, no Dead Space remake, no Callisto Protocol, no Death Stranding, no Elden Ring or Dark Souls, no nothing. It's still just like it was before 2020 except just one title.

 

[apparatchik]

The fact that iOS / iPadOS is perhaps the largest gaming platform (1 billion devices, albeit mostly casual, with less truly AAA titles) makes you wonder why more games don’t target Apple TV & Mac. I do believe eventually, as the installed base of AS Macs grow larger, more games will trickle in.

Apple could not just accelerate that but actually transform the landscape with a push similar to the one with Apple TV+, financing ports, buying and starting its own studios, securing exclusives, etc.

An Apple TV Console edition would help as well, but I digress, it truly is all about the content, as the Nintendo Switch proves.

 

[nasmdhgf]

The fact that iOS / iPadOS is perhaps the largest gaming platform (1 billion devices, albeit mostly casual, with less truly AAA titles) makes you wonder why more games don’t target Apple TV & Mac. I do believe eventually, as the installed base of AS Macs grow larger, more games will trickle in.

Apple could not just accelerate that but actually transform the landscape with a push similar to the one with Apple TV+, financing ports, buying and starting its own studios, securing exclusives, etc.

An Apple TV Console edition would help as well, but I digress, it truly is all about the content, as the Nintendo Switch proves.

Although IOS is good, it is not suitable for playing AAA games. In addition, for individuals, the cost of becoming Apple's game developer is high, and it costs $99 per year. If Apple is willing to learn from Microsoft ($19/permanent) and Google ($25/permanent) to adopt a relatively favorable lifetime license fee, it will be more attractive. Not all games on IOS can earn a lot of income. If my work sales are low, I will not continue to pay $99. It is not cost-effective.
So IOS has low appeal at present, except for those large companies with rich products, because they can launch many mobile games at the same time within a year.

 

[quarkysg]

If Apple is willing to learn from Microsoft ($19/permanent)

Are you sure $19 is it? Microsoft traditionally charges a lot for their development platforms and if I'm not wrong, still does.

 

[nasmdhgf]

Are you sure $19 is it? Microsoft traditionally charges a lot for their development platforms and if I'm not wrong, still does.

This is the fee for applying to become a partner and will not be paid every year.
The costs vary from country to country and may be expensive for you.