So it's not comparable (i.e. cost for developers between Apple and Microsoft) then?
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In 3 years, 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games will be Macs
- Thread starter senttoschool
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Ultimately, if it was 'In 3 years, 50% of all Macs would be able to play AAA games', then... that would be correct, going by Steam, which had Apple Silicon Macs pass the 50% mark in November.
I'm not going to say it isn't 'possible for 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games will be Macs'.
Just highly unlikely.
I'm not going to say it isn't 'possible for 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games will be Macs'.
Just highly unlikely.
It would make for a great partnership in my view.
Apple supplies the ARM hardware - that's what they do great. And Nintendo does the rest.
No they don't disagree at all.
Also you basically gathered almost all compatible ARM Mac AAA games in that forced reply of yours, it's such a large number of games you can use just your fingers to count them.
Also AAA gaming on Macs since the transition to ARM hasn't gained any ground in the last 3 years. While we are starting to see exclusive Play Station games on Windows PC, a day 1 Mac version for basically any AAA isn't even something that's considered by developers.
Yeah another example will be Tekken 8, it will be powered by Unreal Engine 5, the visual fidelity will be absolutely bonkers.
I honestly wouldn't call those "killer titles" and I don't understand why you think they would attract anybody towards MacOS. For example Resident Evil Village was available on Windows, Xbox and PlayStation day one while the MacOS the port came more than 1 year later and it wasn't even announced at the beginning at all so there's no guarantee the next Resident Evil game will see a MacOS port.
I highly doubt there's any chance Rockstar Games would put the work to port their game to MacOS, even if they are payed to do it.
Maybe Mac users will be able to finally run this games when hardware will be fast enough to emulate it.
What does that have to do with it? Is Windows horrible because we finally got Persona 3 Portable? How long was it before we got God of War 2018 on PC? Our PC ports also include the horrible Denuvo.
If a more popular platform, and some argument could be made for a more OPEN platform takes YEARS to get games, why do we expect anything less than what we have now with macOS? Where is Horizon Forbidden West and God of War Ragnarok on PC? And people expect things to be better on macOS when the marketshare is (compared to windows) a complete joke.
The title "In 3 years, 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games will be Macs" would be descriptively accurate as...
"In 3 years, 50% of all Macs used by then would be capable of playing AAA games".
The questions of devs by Nov 2023 is... how many % of the user base buy their Macs to play games?
"In 3 years, 50% of all Macs used by then would be capable of playing AAA games".
The questions of devs by Nov 2023 is... how many % of the user base buy their Macs to play games?
With Xbox, PlayStation & Nintendo it is nearly 100% of all purchased video consoles shipped will be used for games.
Significantly less than 100% of dGPU from Nvidia and AMD will be used for games.
And now.... approx 10% of all Macs with Apple Silicon are used to play games.
STEAM user hardware stats also helps.
If you are a dev you need Apple to provide incentives for you to port from above said platforms to the Mac.
Having a unified code base for all macOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS and even watchOS devices helps but for quality of life improvements having OpenGL or say other 3rd party tech like Vulkan would be of great help if it was part of Metal 3 or future versions.
Surely a more appropriate question is 'How many PCs are used to play games?', rather than trying to compare the Mac to Xbox or Playstation.
And I don't mean gaming PCs, but the things like Dell's Inspirion boxes as well, with Intelgrated graphics.
That being said, I'd say... 15-20% sounds fair. A Mac's not a gaming system, but that doesn't mean you can't play games on it after work.
Vampire Survivors sold like a bajillion copies, and you wouldn't call that requiring a gaming system, after all.
It was reported that back in April of 2022, 2.5 million copies sold.
Wouldn't game devs count the hardware sales that can actually comply with the minimum spec requirements?
That is why I was very specific on the metrics that would indicate a platform's worth developing for.
What makes Macs with Apple Silicon attractive is the hardware in it and the socio-economic demo of its userbase is largely inelastic. Apple knows this that's why moving from 8GB RAM to anything more costs more than 2x the PC part equivalent.
But this same demo may not be playing games of the sort that they develop. Casual gaming on smartphones & tablets are big business as the up front acquisition cost was "Get" and as the longer you play it the inevitable microtransaction comes into play that will eventually reach $60. That $60 is the up front cost of a triple A title on a video console or gaming PC.
First of all, MAC computers are very expensive (IOS is also the same). At the same time, Developers must pay an annual fee ($99 for individuals and $299 for companies).
They are not comparable with PCs. Finally, if you want to migrate games to MAC or IOS platforms, you need to learn another rendering API, namely METAL, which is a troublesome behavior that costs a lot of time and money. I don't know why Apple chose this way, but this is a decision that will obviously be rejected by many programmers.
In the final analysis, MAC is not suitable for porting games,Linux is the more appropriate platform.
Programmers can easily cross the boundaries of the platform by using OPENGL or VULKAN. Even if DX12 is used, LINUX can also use WINE to simulate DX12.
As I pointed out difficulty and cost limits the incentive to port from other platforms to Mac.
If Apple does not make certain compromises and support the mainstream APIs such as DX, OPENGL and VULKAN, developers will not be willing to develop the MAC version of games for a platform with uncertain benefits (if developers are required to cooperate with Apple's decision by force, then developers can only choose to abandon MAC).
Do we really think Microsoft's going to allow Apple to use DX without demanding a cut?
OpenGL last had a stable release in 2017, and... let's be honest, Apple's never been the best with keeping up to date with it.
Vulkan is a fair point, but there's a couple of problems.
1. Apple was initially part of the group behind Vulkan, but left early on.
2. Metal came out before Vulkan.
3. MoltenVK is pretty good at what it does.
It's no problem not to cut it, because no platform can support DX better than Microsoft's operating system, even Linux.
Secondly, although OpenGL is an old API, it has only been five years since the latest version. DX12 was born in 2014, 8-9 years from now.
With regard to Vulkan, Apple's withdrawal from the Vulkan project should be for the purpose of competition, so it launched metal earlier than Vulkan to seize the beach,
But Vulkan can cross platforms while Apple's metal does not,
So Apple can only choose not to support Vulkan,
Because if Apple supports Vulkan (can't weaken its functions as it does with opengl), then metal will collapse. Because everyone knows that metal can't win over vulkan.
MoltenVK is not stable. Just like wine, even the native API has a lot of bugs (and the code creation is very complex and cumbersome), let alone a layer of metal nested below. The compatibility layer you mentioned is unrealistic. Therefore, it is rarely adopted.
However, it can be considered when it is mature.
I have already said that although Apple has cleverly avoided the trouble of supporting multiple APIs, saved a lot of extra programmers' salaries, and formed a smart competition with Vulkan (kicked out Vulkan and GL, and let developers only use metal to develop programs), developers do not buy it,
The final result is that there will be fewer programmers for mac.
The number of programmers using Vulkan cross-platform will increase. DX12 will live well because of Microsoft's support, because Windows is the largest game platform in the world.
The proportion of mac can be ignored. It is unlikely that there will be a large number of AAA games pouring into MAC.
The final result is that there will be fewer programmers for mac.
The number of programmers using Vulkan cross-platform will increase. DX12 will live well because of Microsoft's support, because Windows is the largest game platform in the world.
The proportion of mac can be ignored. It is unlikely that there will be a large number of AAA games pouring into MAC.