Intel 12900HK is faster than M1 Max for both single and multi cores.

[m1maverick]

x86 is a poor architecture. Even if Intel chip happens to be faster in some specific task, so what. RISC designs are inherently superior.

Damn! This takes me back to 1994! So happy to see the CISC versus RISC debate pop up again. Ah, the memories.

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

Yes, sure. I admit I have a curiously emotional bias against the weird, more and more unrecognizable company Apple. I finally broke that spell and became disillusioned after decades of being in some thrall over having to use all Apple things in my life.

“Broke the spell”? You sound like that Intel ad. But if you prefer PC, go for it. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[vir]

I noticed that too.

 

[mistasopz]

Speed estimated outside a thermal envelope doesn’t mean absolutely anything.

Furthermore M1 Max is Mobile chip. Comparing it against a workstation chip it’s nonsense.

M1 Max is the fastest mobile chip on the market, period.

Thermal characteristics are very important, but the “H” in the name of the chip literally means it is a mobile chip and designed for mobile.

 

[ultrakyo]

Real advancement for intel but does not beat M1 if you take GPU into consideration.

Plus you will probably need chunky heatsink for that mobile device.

 

[zakarhino]

Nah, I'm a jerk, you're right, it's all good dude. I'm more combative than anyone else here, but I sure don't want to hurt anyone, I'm just rather upset with myself if you want to know the truth. Apple can do what they want, and if people find use and joy in their continued offerings, well I can screw right off for trying to tear that down. But I think there is some sense in exploring and questioning... and some healthy observation and doubt.

Nothing wrong with being a skeptic here and being upset at Apple's business led decisions that negatively affect the direction of our software lives. People will be mad at you because they need to justify their purchase or they feel the need to defend their company out of some narrowminded view of tech. I'm upset too that some software will no longer be compatible and I'm deeply upset that the power balance of control over our own devices is being heavily weighted towards the corporations having all the say and power. Overall the benefits we get with the walled garden approach of "We, the company, decide what's best for you" do not outweigh the downsides of the ongoing assault against real innovation and computational empowerment of the public. American innovation is declining because the current people on top care more about locking in their position of power over anything else.

"But I think there is some sense in exploring and questioning... and some healthy observation and doubt."

This could not be more true. By default we should be trained to challenge businesses and their products, not blindly defend them out of some brand loyalty or excuses about "XYZ company is changing the world and giving us good products! Therefore we shouldn't be so ungrateful and complain. Go make your own products if you don't like it!" as if that's a healthy or rational POV to have.

I say all that as someone that's getting an M1 Max on Tuesday. I'm excited about the performance bump and some of the benefits of the M1 platform but that doesn't change the fact I'm very concerned about the future of general computing. For all the good M1 brings, it's also another step towards locking down the Apple ecosystem even further and making it harder and harder for outsiders to compete or for customers to make choices about how they want their digital life to be structured.

 

[Taz Mangus]

Tomorrow is the day that we get all the benchmarks and see the M1 Pro and M1 Max MacBook Pro tested.

I will make this prediction. The Windows laptop that uses the Intel 12900HK will have diminished performance while running on battery and will only get peak performance if the laptop is plugged in to an outlet. And the laptop will sound like a jet fighter engine when it gets hot. The M1 Pro and M1 Max MacBook Pro laptops will be able to reach sustained peak performance while on battery alone. And they will sound very quiet, even when the fans are running.at low speed. I am really curious about High Power mode for the M1 Max. I know Apple under-clocks the CPU in Low Power Mode. Over-clock the CPU in High Power mode? Not long to finding out.

I wonder how the battery life will be for the Intel 12900HK CPU will be. I predict, given Apple track record with CPUs, the battery life for the M1 Pro and M1 Max is going to be amazing. I am in awe of the M1 Max having 32-channel memory architecture. You would need something like AMD Epyc CPU and that is designed to be used in servers.

Apple is saving the best for last, the M1 Extreme desktop CPU. Could see that introduced in the spring or summer of 2022 before the M2 cycle begins. 64-channel memory architecture?

 

[Ethosik]

Damn, a desktop level chip that will probably run at 200w+ at max load is beating a 30w laptop chip by a little bit.

In all seriousness, Intel will undoubtedly say this is the fastest CPU on the planet and they're right. Some people will fall for the marketing. But at the end of the day, it's mostly about performance/watt on mobile.

I do wish Apple would be aggressive to reclaiming the single thread though and it looks like they will as soon as the M2 Macbook Air.

If Apple does a 12-month update for the MBP, there is little chance Intel will catch Apple. If Apple does an 18-month cadence, Intel will certainly have the single-thread performance crown even if the TDP is significantly higher than Apple SoCs.

Yes. People, this is still a LAPTOP with regards to M1 Pro/Max. Just wait when power/thermals are not a consideration (Mac Pro and to a lesser extent ~30" iMac).

My M1 Mac Mini beats my 2019 i9 iMac. Just imagine with the maxed out Mac Pro will be! These M1/Pro/Max processors are still made with thermal constraints in mind for a LAPTOP chip....

 

[Buntschwalbe]

I couldn't find any link on the OP-article about the source of this geekbench score for 12900HK. Is it confirmed in any way?

 

[southerndoc]

I could care less if it's the fastest chip. I just want decent performance with long battery life. I don't need a Ferrari to drive down a dirt road. For most people, all they are doing is checking email, word processing, opening PDF's, and surfing the web. Even with my 400+ page PDF and Word documents, my Mac mini M1 and MacBook Air M1 handle it just fine.

 

[Ethosik]

good one..thank god we dont have to tolerate 32-bit support until year 2100..
thank god you dont say anything about flash support being dead
Apple is just moving forward...while windows and OEM cannot do that because they will loose a lot of market because of its legacy support...they will support it even after 100 years or until a new CEO will come around that will force the world to move on
All the real pro apps are moved to 64-bit support...the rest of apps that are just 32-bit then they are not worth it since the developers dont care about it why you should?! there are so many apps out there..

Just imagine how amazing Windows would be if they cut out the support of the older stuff!

 

[Ethosik]

Don’t fall for intels marketing. Intel 7 is still 10nm.
for 10nm alder lake to compete with TSMC‘s 5nm while using legacy x86 architecture is an achievement in itself.

Why does this need to be so complicated?

Intel's at 10nm, but they changed the name to 7nm. BUT, Intel's 10nm is better than TSMC 7nm. So what, is Intel's 7nm better than TSMC 5nm? Geez industry, is is it a nanometer or not?!

This is like saying my swimming pool is 12 yards, but its also like 20 yards! No....take out a measuring tape. Is it 12 or 20?

 

[raknor]

View attachment 1876972

The new MBP is an entire display thicker than the old MBP. My M16 is also an entire display thicker than the old MBP. How clearer can it be? The confusion is because you are adding the rubber feet to the dimensions of the PCs for whatever reason, as those definitely add height for good thermals, but have nothing at all to do with the thickness of the computer as a whole.

I am not interested in defending the XPS, as those are terrible laptops, and I don't care to think about them in any capacity.

That image you keep posting is comparing it to the 15" MBP (2018 model) not the 16" MBP from 2019.

I have been following your posts so far and its hilarious how confidently incorrect you are almost all the time.

The MBP from your picture is 15.5 mm thick.
The 2019 16" MBP is 16.2 mm thick.
The new 2021 16" MBP is 16.8 mm thick.

Leman as usual is spot on correct ..

Let's see the ASUS Zephyrus M16 you keep parroting on about is a whopping 19.9 mm thick .. that is 3.1 mm thicker than the 16" 2021 MBP. The laptops in your image are only 1.3 mm apart in thickness.

 

[Ethosik]

No it’s not. My Lenovo P53 does it as well. In fact that just throttles down so much that windows UI lags out.

The HP elite book before did it.

I had desktops before that which were marginally better. But they won’t ship me one now as I’m “on call” despite working from home and they installed about 200 hot desks in the office (which I never go to). Muppets

My HP laptop from work does the same. Gets WAY TOO LOUD even just using Azure DevOps in Chrome.

 

[ahurst]

I'm upset too that some software will no longer be compatible and I'm deeply upset that the power balance of control over our own devices is being heavily weighted towards the corporations having all the say and power. Overall the benefits we get with the walled garden approach of "We, the company, decide what's best for you" do not outweigh the downsides of the ongoing assault against real innovation and computational empowerment of the public.

While I broadly agree with your post, my personal thought is that Apple switching to their own custom chips is going to reduce monopolization and consolidation of power in the industry.

I mean, with Apple you've never had a choice in the architecture you get in their machines outside of transition periods, so I don't think there's any additional disempowerment of users that comes with moving to their own chips. For the rest of the computer industry, Apple Silicon is a huge blow to Intel's longstanding quasi-monopoly over the laptop/desktop CPU market: whereas before they only had to worry about AMD, who they still profit from due to x86 patents, Apple has quickly taken ARM laptops/desktops from novelty status to serious performance contenders. As Windows on ARM reaches maturity, Qualcomm and other smaller chip makers are going to want a slice of that new market.

I think we're going to see a lot of shake-up in the non-Mac computer market in the near future, which should hopefully increase user choice and reduce Intel's near-iron grip on the future of the laptop/desktop landscape.

 

[nquinn]

I could care less if it's the fastest chip. I just want decent performance with long battery life. I don't need a Ferrari to drive down a dirt road. For most people, all they are doing is checking email, word processing, opening PDF's, and surfing the web. Even with my 400+ page PDF and Word documents, my Mac mini M1 and MacBook Air M1 handle it just fine.

I feel this way too - mostly just want it to be quiet & cool. With that said the amount of code bloat, particularly javascript/react/electron crap means that even simple websites these days are monsters to run.

 

[Ethosik]

I feel this way too - mostly just want it to be quiet & cool. With that said the amount of code bloat, particularly javascript/react/electron crap means that even simple websites these days are monsters to run.

And this is the thing that drives me crazy when people complain about RAM and number of browser tabs they can have open. How well is that website optimized? How much javascript does it have? Ads? We are not in the 1990s anymore, websites are not simple static websites. I once observed a website using 2GB of RAM on my Windows based computer.

 

[amartinez1660]

(…)
A friend of mine who upgraded from a ~2015 MBP to an M1 Air said his Stan models that used to take 3+ hours now only take 20-30 minutes
(…)

Woah, this is something that doesn’t get remotely any sort of spotlight… I would be curious if your friend or someone related to him gets an M1 Pro or Max and does the same.
And while we are at it, hopefully someone could do an Alder Lake too on the same thing then.

(excuse me this next quote being empty, just can’t get rid of it, macrumors since forever is super wonky on iOS regarding typing, quoting, formatting, etc… freaking cursor even jumps around sometimes, needs a revamp for sure)
EDIT: ah, alright, it doesn’t show when posted, but it’s there. Can see it even when hitting edit (if there’s any macrumors dev around here).

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

Just imagine how amazing Windows would be if they cut out the support of the older stuff!

If Windows cut off legacy support nobody would use Windows.

 

[Ethosik]

If Windows cut off legacy support nobody would use Windows.

I am sure many people still would, I definitely would so there goes your "nobody". I don't use programs that were made in 2001, but I know Windows can still run those programs. Part of why Windows is so horrible is because it is so bloated and brings all those legacy items.

 

[throAU]

They changed its name to 7nm.

I thought it was intel 7 or something equally ridiculous

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

I am sure many people still would, I definitely would so there goes your "nobody". I don't use programs that were made in 2001, but I know Windows can still run those programs. Part of why Windows is so horrible is because it is so bloated and brings all those legacy items.

The main advantage of Windows is that it can still run programs from the 1990s. The bloat of Windows is a feature, not a bug. Microsoft's corporate customers would freak out if Microsoft decided to abandon the architecture they started using in the 1980s (or abandon the one they were using in the '90s... or the one they were using in the 2000s... like another company I could mention).

 

[throAU]

I love these threads.

Apple destroy completion : “omg! Look at these leaks. So much power! So good!”

Intel perform better than apple : “got to wait for real world tests”

One of these vendors has delivered for the past decade. The other has offered up 5% per year on contrived benchmarks - at ever increasing thermal output.

 

[sentential]

Why does this need to be so complicated?

Intel's at 10nm, but they changed the name to 7nm. BUT, Intel's 10nm is better than TSMC 7nm. So what, is Intel's 7nm better than TSMC 5nm? Geez industry, is is it a nanometer or not?!

This is like saying my swimming pool is 12 yards, but its also like 20 yards! No....take out a measuring tape. Is it 12 or 20?

To answer your question Intel is rightfully saying that nanometer measuring stick is a lot like clock speeds. The reason they changed the name is because their transister density is far higher than TSMC’s. Therefor TSMC has the same transistor density as Intel resulting in chips with identical sizes with the same number of transistors.

I still stand by what I’ve said in other threads. Apple has made a great APU at a terrible time as Intel is hitting their stride again. Meteor/Raptorlake will be monstrous and will likely beat Apple in every imaginable metric sans graphics.


The only way Apple can improve is by moving to HBM or some other enterprise grade design or *gasp* abandon their APU and roll back EGPU support and abandon their graphics/compute ambitions and focus on making massively parallel CPUs with core counts that can match Zen

 

[bobcomer]

Just imagine how amazing Windows would be if they cut out the support of the older stuff!

It probably wouldn't even exist, businesses like backwards compatibility. I bet there would be a heck of a lot less computers too. Windows made the personal computer market.

One thing is for sure, Apple wouldn't have any more business market share than they have now, since Apple doesn't do backwards compatibility.