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zarathu

macrumors 6502a
May 14, 2003
652
362
I love how people are putting down Intel.
Wait until Alder Lake gets released and is MUCH CHEAPER than APPLE
It will EAT APPLE ARM for LUNCH.
Especially the 16 core version which is not out yet.
Perhaps you should find yourself on a forum called PCRumors, rather than spending your time trolling on this one.

There are plenty of intel/AMD chips that eat Apple’s mobile chip M1Pro/Max for lunch. Everyone knows this. Just none of them do it without lots of power, big loud fans, and a very low battery lunch.
 
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bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
You are apparently not aware how far back Windows 11 goes.
I'm very aware of how far back it goes, but Windows 10 is still supported on machines older than that, and Window 7 and XP run pretty much the same software. The OS is pretty much the least concerning thing -- it's the applications that are important....
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,907
12,880
Loud fans on max load (and only on max load, which excludes most use cases including non-ultra quality gaming)? Sure, you got me there. Battery? Dave2D's test showed about 11 hours on the M1 Max. Highest I've seen is 16 hours web/productivity. Let's be fair and round that to the middle: 13.5 hours. Nice, but hardly a revolution. A small treat at most. A bit better than the normal 9-11hrs of modern performance PC laptops in their iGPU modes.
Comparing Apples to Apples, literally: According to reviews that compared it to previous generation Intel Macs, battery life of the 16" Apple Silicon was 5 hours longer.
 

huge_apple_fangirl

macrumors 6502a
Aug 1, 2019
769
1,301
No. Apple's penchant for throwing backwards compatibility under the bus is not something corporate America likes. It costs big time money to rewrite for a new architecture, and it has absolutely no ROI.
The point is that corporate users care about compatibility primarily. Apple isn't great on that (which is why enterprise has never been a strong segment for the Mac) but Windows is. Apple has other advantages- like hardware/software integrations, lack of bloat, and committed developers. If Windows abandoned backwards compatibility, there is almost no reason to use it- and it loses one of its biggest advantages over Mac (the other is cost and diversity of hardware, but that applies to Chromebooks too). Meanwhile, Apple would still have its advantages. And writing for a new architecture does have ROI- it has allowed Apple to move to a new, better platform 3(!) times.
 

Andropov

macrumors 6502a
May 3, 2012
746
990
Spain
It's not about 'nm' at this stage but transistor density, and TSMC are ahead on that, not as dramatically as the 'nm' nomenclature would suggest, but still ahead.
Transistor density is very variable depending on which part of the SoC you're measuring it, therefore it can't be an accurate test of how good the fab process is either. An ALU wouldn't have the same transistor density as a cache, for instance.
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,907
12,880
Why does the platform keep going bad? 68k was fine until it wasn't. PowerPC was fine until it wasn't. Intel was fine until it wasn't. Apple Silicon was fine until... wait, no.. this can't happen again...
Nobody is #1 forever.
 

falainber

macrumors 68040
Mar 16, 2016
3,542
4,136
Wild West
Perhaps you should find yourself on a forum called PCRumors, rather than spending your time trolling on this one.

There are plenty of intel/AMD chips that eat Apple’s mobile chip M1Pro/Max for lunch. Everyone knows this. Just none of them do it without lots of power, big loud fans, and a very low battery lunch.
Did you know that Apple is using Intel chips in their computers?
 

crazy dave

macrumors 65816
Sep 9, 2010
1,454
1,229
Nope not at all.
Every report on fabrication I've ever read disagrees. Even Intel themselves say they have hit process parity and aren't planning on being able to match and then truly overtake TSMC (provided both hit their roadmaps and neither stumble) until 2025 and 2030 respectively. That's when they say they'll get process leadership back - after 2025.

Right now, Intel is approximated to be at TSMC 7nm(+) give or take. They're not as behind as the node names suggest, that is very true, but they're still behind. Samsung's 5nm however is also about TSMC's 7nm(+). So Intel has caught Samsung, maybe that's what you're thinking of? Samsung's 3nm might be better though with GAA.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
The point is that corporate users care about compatibility primarily. Apple isn't great on that (which is why enterprise has never been a strong segment for the Mac) but Windows is. Apple has other advantages- like hardware/software integrations, lack of bloat, and committed developers. If Windows abandoned backwards compatibility, there is almost no reason to use it- and it loses one of its biggest advantages over Mac (the other is cost and diversity of hardware, but that applies to Chromebooks too). Meanwhile, Apple would still have its advantages. And writing for a new architecture does have ROI- it has allowed Apple to move to a new, better platform 3(!) times.
I disagree big time on ROI, it hasn't allowed it to move forward at all in corporate America. I'm the guy where I work that has to inform upper management on ROI, and I agree with most of corporate America.

Moving forward has helped the Mac in some jobs and industries, and I like MacOS personally, but remember just what market share the Mac has after so many years and that'll tell you everything.

Software and user costs dwarf hardware costs by a huge difference...
 

MysticCow

macrumors 68000
May 27, 2013
1,564
1,760
Why does the platform keep going bad? 68k was fine until it wasn't. PowerPC was fine until it wasn't. Intel was fine until it wasn't. Apple Silicon was fine until... wait, no.. this can't happen again...

In other news, technology marches onward!

68k was fine until we got into the G3's, which slaughtered them.
G3's ran nicely until we got the G4's, which slaughtered them if the app used Altivec.
G4's ran decently until we got the G5's and the sheer clock speed increase from it.
G5's were sheer monsters until Apple screwed it all up by optimizing the OS and apps for Intel.
Intel had absolute monsters of processors until an iPhone had better tech specs than a MacBook Air or sometimes PRO.
So now we are in M1, which will do the job and be Max and Pro modeled also until we get the M2.
 

Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
1,438
Why does the platform keep going bad? 68k was fine until it wasn't. PowerPC was fine until it wasn't. Intel was fine until it wasn't. Apple Silicon was fine until... wait, no.. this can't happen again...
By that Logic why use anything then? It’s all gonna go bad eventually. Of course Apple silicon, as we know it, won’t last forever? Same with x86. But surely apple silicon is going to be around for the foreseeable future.

On a side note, I also just love PC enthusiast who look at raw benchmarks so they can cry “apple sucks” when, out of hundreds of processors, laptop configs, and benchmarks, they find one tiny sliver of hope thinking they won some hypothetical argument comparing some Intel/AMD chip to Apple. When every single time these comparisons are made, what almost always gets overlooked is everything that’s surrounding the CPU or GPU like thermals, features, wattage, ecosystem and OS (yes PC fanboys, I actually cannot use Windows for my workloads as my apps are *gasp* not supported on Windows. So while your arguments about needing x86 to run legacy software are totally valid for you, they are totally irrelevant to people like me, so that argument isn’t the “gotcha” moment you think it is).
 

crazy dave

macrumors 65816
Sep 9, 2010
1,454
1,229
In other news, technology marches onward!

68k was fine until we got into the G3's, which slaughtered them.
G3's ran nicely until we got the G4's, which slaughtered them if the app used Altivec.
G4's ran decently until we got the G5's and the sheer clock speed increase from it.
G5's were sheer monsters until Apple screwed it all up by optimizing the OS and apps for Intel.
Intel had absolute monsters of processors until an iPhone had better tech specs than a MacBook Air or sometimes PRO.
So now we are in M1, which will do the job and be Max and Pro modeled also until we get the M2.

The G5's were monsters ... and power hungry ones. IBM showed no interest in reigning in their power for use in laptops which was apparently a market IBM wasn't interested in developing hardware for anymore. That left Apple without a G5 for laptops which were quickly becoming their most important segment. After Apple left, IBM dropped the consumer POWER variants and focused on their more profitable server segment because they thought Intel would never touch them there. Meanwhile, Intel's CPUs were about to dramatically increase their power efficiency for use in ultra thin and light devices. Apple already had OS X running on Intel processors in labs as tests. I mean given all that, they had to move. Sound familiar? ;)
 
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NO1EYENO

macrumors member
Aug 21, 2007
63
35
Thailand
It does not matter how fast the Intel Chip is running a Obsolete Stone Age Bloated Micro$oft OS.
A Fast Chip in a Non Mac Computer is like putting perfume on a PIG! Until Dumb Dope Gates makes
a OS from scratch the world will have to suffer with his GREED. I never re Installed an Apple OS in
Over 21 years when Apple stock was $7 a Share. Apple is TESLA and Micro$oft is Fiat/Chrysler.
 

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