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KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
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New revenue stream so they want as many people to stay or come back to iMessage.

Apparently. They also made the navigation between iMessage apps worse by replacing the navigation ‘dots’ (indicating that you can scroll horizontally) with an obscure horizontal scrollbar (hidden by default, thus no indication that you can scroll). One facepalm after another.
 

sbailey4

macrumors 601
Dec 5, 2011
4,571
3,253
USA
That article is a recent article. For years now Apple has said its okay to do a hard reset to kill off background tasks. Things clearly change. Remember when Apple said to do a 100% discharge on your battery every 30 days? They no longer say that either. I am going by the advice that Apple offered me years ago, it has worked for me. I am not telling others to do it, but I am saying what I have done and what has worked for me. Never had an issue. Plain and simple as that. And really no need to continue debating.
Yeah totally up to you but I suspect that is updated info due to the difference of doing hard reset on ip7 series. Anyway I charged up to 100% as well and watched it. 1 hr stdby and 2 min usage. So I assume all is well with 10.1 as far as the background stuff you were seeing in previous betas. Maybe 10.2 beta soon to address those other handful of items mentioned in bug report replies of recent.
 

mariusignorello

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Jun 9, 2013
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No. There are variants of all iOS versions because different devices get different features. As C DM said, the 7 also has the 'c'.
Variant for the iPhone 7 models. Then they code the features in and set them for specific models (iPhone8,3 and iPhone8,4).
 

Mlrollin91

macrumors G5
Nov 20, 2008
14,172
10,187
Variant for the iPhone 7 models. Then they code the features in and set them for specific models (iPhone8,3 and iPhone8,4).
It still doesn't need the 'c'. Its never happened before that a final release maintains the beta build coding.
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Yeah totally up to you but I suspect that is updated info due to the difference of doing hard reset on ip7 series. Anyway I charged up to 100% as well and watched it. 1 hr stdby and 2 min usage. So I assume all is well with 10.1 as far as the background stuff you were seeing in previous betas. Maybe 10.2 beta soon to address those other handful of items mentioned in bug report replies of recent.
I'm just praying 10.2B1 has keyboard fixed.
 
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Mlrollin91

macrumors G5
Nov 20, 2008
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The builds for the iPhone 6 didn't work on the 7 models so they made another build. Not that shocking.

No you are not understanding what I am saying. A lowercase letter represents a beta build. This is the first public release that has a beta build. There are dozens of variants of iOS for multiple devices because of different features and different hardware, but the build number is still always the same.
 

mariusignorello

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Jun 9, 2013
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No you are not understanding what I am saying. A lowercase letter represents a beta build. This is the first public release that has a beta build. There are dozens of variants of iOS for multiple devices because of different features and different hardware, but the build number is still always the same.
Are you on the iOS development team at Apple? It's not that common for a final version to end with a letter, but it does happen in certain circumstances such as this one. Goes all the way back to iPhone OS 1.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
It's a variation because the iPhone 7 plus has the Portrait feature

Variant for the iPhone 7 models. Then they code the features in and set them for specific models (iPhone8,3 and iPhone8,4).
Could certainly be variants, but doesn't seem to be because of the portrait feature really. At the same time phones like iPhone 5 and 5s and 6 and 6s seem to have the same exact build version despite them being quite different among each other (TouchID, 3D Touch, etc.), so just differences in hardware and features don't seem to necessarily need variants of a build. It can certainly happen, but it's not exactly all that common nor does it seem like anything in particular about device differences calls for it. But, again, all of this was more in relation to a letter almost never being present in build versions for a final public build.
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Are you on the iOS development team at Apple? It's not that common for a final version to end with a letter, but it does happen in certain circumstances such as this one. Goes all the way back to iPhone OS 1.
The unusual aspect of that is what was commented on, as is essentially consistent with the type of things discussed in threads like this and forums like this one in general.
 

Mlrollin91

macrumors G5
Nov 20, 2008
14,172
10,187
Are you on the iOS development team at Apple? It's not that common for a final version to end with a letter, but it does happen in certain circumstances such as this one. Goes all the way back to iPhone OS 1.

Wiki has a list of every build number. iOS 7.0.4 was the last time a build ended with a lowercase letter. Before that it was iOS 1.1. Everything since then has not ended with a lowercase letter unless the iOS update was pulled and re-released. This is not typical Apple behavior. Its also only the second time that a beta has become the final release. 9.2 was the only other exception.

As I mentioned earlier though, 2016 has completely surprised us with the way Apple issues updates.
 

Mlrollin91

macrumors G5
Nov 20, 2008
14,172
10,187
So did anything change between beta five and the final

Probably not if the build is the same. But then again, some people are getting the update from B5 and others aren't. Both Dev and PB. Literally makes no sense.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
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Probably not if the build is the same. But then again, some people are getting the update from B5 and others aren't. Both Dev and PB. Literally makes no sense.
Potentially some component firmware updates perhaps (like modem or something like that), which are perhaps not treated as new iOS code, and thus don't result in a new build. Or perhaps updated carrier settings being bundled. Hard to say.
 
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mariusignorello

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Wiki has a list of every build number. iOS 7.0.4 was the last time a build ended with a lowercase letter. Before that it was iOS 1.1. Everything since then has not ended with a lowercase letter unless the iOS update was pulled and re-released. This is not typical Apple behavior. Its also only the second time that a beta has become the final release. 9.2 was the only other exception.

As I mentioned earlier though, 2016 has completely surprised us with the way Apple issues updates.
Yeah, Apple does like their curve balls.
 

sbailey4

macrumors 601
Dec 5, 2011
4,571
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Probably not if the build is the same. But then again, some people are getting the update from B5 and others aren't. Both Dev and PB. Literally makes no sense.
And its been reported that the ipsw files were different sizes from old betas to release even though same build. So yeah strange indeed.

[Edit] found my beta 4 ipsw in recycle (usually delete perm) anyway it is 4723 KB (4.7 mb) larger than the release version. So perhaps they removed some beta diag/logging code or further optimized it. Definitely different tho. Someone said theirs was 10mb difference. Assume beta larger on theirs too.
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
That being said, soft resets and hard resets accomplish the same end goal: powering off the device. When the device is off, the RAM is completely purged. Boot up from a hard reset happens in exactly the same manner as boot up from a soft reset (except, as I've previously mentioned, some OSes will run some diagnostics and integrity checks to make sure nothing crucial to the OS got corrupted). The fact that your App Store got fixed from a hard reset but not a soft reset is a total coincidence, and one of the wonders of software engineering that we gotta deal with every day.
Not to restart all of this, but given that this has been something I've also been wondering about for some time, while we certainly know that in general, in definition, and in theory a restart and a reset are essentially the same in their goal and and end effect, or basically they are supposed to be the same, do we know that that is in fact how they are always implemented across various devices? It seems like it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, even if it might be somewhat unusual, that they might work a bit differently on some devices, depending on their implementation. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but given a variety of experiences that people have had, while it's possible to attribute them to some sort of coincidences or just random anecdotal experiences, it seems like a similar possibility would exist as far as attributing them to some potential differences (it's hard to say if they might be documented or even talked about really in any specific/technical terms, assuming they exist) in what happens with iOS devices when a reset is used vs. a restart.
 

Suckfest 9001

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May 31, 2015
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Not to restart all of this, but given that this has been something I've also been wondering about for some time, while we certainly know that in general, in definition, and in theory a restart and a reset are essentially the same in their goal and and end effect, or basically they are supposed to be the same, do we know that that is in fact how they are always implemented across various devices? It seems like it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, even if it might be somewhat unusual, that they might work a bit differently on some devices, depending on their implementation. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but given a variety of experiences that people have had, while it's possible to attribute them to some sort of coincidences or just random anecdotal experiences, it seems like a similar possibility would exist as far as attributing them to some potential differences (it's hard to say if they might be documented or even talked about really in any specific/technical terms, assuming they exist) in what happens with iOS devices when a reset is used vs. a restart.
Well the end result is certainly the same - the device is powered down and there is no power sent to the RAM, and so it is purged.

By doing a soft reset, the OS does some quick housekeeping and gracefully closes all processes before shutting down. It makes sure there aren't any ongoing transfers or processing when the power is cut.

A hard reset obviously interrupts whatever was going on and doesn't opt to do anything gracefully - it just terminates power immediately.

In both cases, at the end, the device is powered off, but you risk some data corruption on the hard reset side of things. Either way, a (hopefully) normal boot takes place next time you turn on the phone.

I definitely don't know anything about Apple's boot up process and what kinds of tricks they're doing, so I can't really comment on why you may notice a difference between a soft and a hard boot up. My guess would be that some kind of quick integrity check is catching other coincidental bugs in the app's data and fixing them. Even if that were the case, when you hard reset, you typically risk serious data corruption that may or may not be fixable, so I could never recommend it to anyone unless your phone completely locks up or something.

I was also thinking - Mlrollin91 might be onto something with the whole "apps stay open through restarts." I do wonder if Apple is actually hibernating apps to the storage when you gracefully turn off the phone, just so that they're up to date following a restart? That could be why shutdowns take long nowadays? That could also be another possibility.
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
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Well the end result is certainly the same - the device is powered down and there is no power sent to the RAM, and so it is purged.

By doing a soft reset, the OS does some quick housekeeping and gracefully closes all processes before shutting down. It makes sure there aren't any ongoing transfers or processing when the power is cut.

A hard reset obviously interrupts whatever was going on and doesn't opt to do anything gracefully - it just terminates power immediately.

In both cases, at the end, the device is powered off, but you risk some data corruption on the hard reset side of things. Either way, a (hopefully) normal boot takes place next time you turn on the phone.

I definitely don't know anything about Apple's boot up process and what kinds of tricks they're doing, so I can't really comment on why you may notice a difference between a soft and a hard boot up. My guess would be that some kind of quick integrity check is catching other coincidental bugs in the app's data and fixing them. Even if that were the case, when you hard reset, you typically risk serious data corruption that may or may not be fixable, so I could never recommend it to anyone unless your phone completely locks up or something.
All that might be the case as far as the typical and "on-paper" definition an implementation of it all. But it seems like there might be potential differences between the two in case of iOS that might play a role when it comes to some things. Again, I'm not saying that there are those for sure, but given observations from different people over the years it seems like there can certainly be, like there is the possibility of it all potentially being something on the level of coincidence essentially. And while I agree about the general potential risks of a reset vs. a restart, the practical side of it all kind of comes into all as well as far as seeing how many devices/people have been affected by something going wrong with a reset (vs. a restart).

It looks like at some point even Apple themselves have recommended a reset as a troubleshooting step before making an appointment with them: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-reset-your-iphone-before-hitting-the-genius-bar/
 
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Chris in DC

macrumors regular
Aug 4, 2014
217
134
I was also thinking - Mlrollin91 might be onto something with the whole "apps stay open through restarts." I do wonder if Apple is actually hibernating apps to the storage when you gracefully turn off the phone, just so that they're up to date following a restart?

Just tested the timer app – started the timer and restarted the phone. When I reopened the timer upon restart, it had gone down the amount of time it took to restart, rather than resetting or resuming from the point when I shut down. Interesting.
 

Suckfest 9001

Suspended
May 31, 2015
1,748
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All that might be the case as far as the typical and "on-paper" definition an implementation of it all. But it seems like there might be potential differences between the two in case of iOS that might play a role when it comes to some things. Again, I'm not saying that there are those for sure, but given observations from different people over the years it seems like there can certainly be, like there is the possibility of it all potentially being something on the level of coincidence essentially. And while I agree about the general potential risks of a reset vs. a restart, the practical side of it all kind of comes into all as well as far as seeing how many devices/people have been affected by something going wrong with a reset (vs. a restart).

It looks like at some point even Apple themselves have recommended a reset as a troubleshooting step before making an appointment with them: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-reset-your-iphone-before-hitting-the-genius-bar/
That really surprises me. Hard resets have always put data integrity at risk, so it really shocks me to see that Apple themselves would recommend this.

I'd be inclined to say that they have some amazing integrity checking going on to recover from these, but that's still outside of my comfort zone for sure.
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Just tested the timer app – started the timer and restarted the phone. When I reopened the timer upon restart, it had gone down the amount of time it took to restart, rather than resetting or resuming from the point when I shut down. Interesting.
The timer operates based on system time. It wasn't actually running while the phone was off - rather, the timer 'flag' was set to "active." What this means is that when you open the clock app, the timer checks its flag status, and if it is active, it calculates the elapsed time using the current time as the end point at the stored start time as the start point.

I'm pretty terrible at explaining things - does that make sense at all?
 

Chris in DC

macrumors regular
Aug 4, 2014
217
134
The timer operates based on system time. It wasn't actually running while the phone was off - rather, the timer 'flag' was set to "active." What this means is that when you open the clock app, the timer checks its flag status, and if it is active, it calculates the elapsed time using the current time as the end point at the stored start time as the start point.

Neat, I didn't know that. I assume the stopwatch works the same way?
 
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