Well, when the posts are basically just that, it just underscores that there isn't really room for a discussion anyway.
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iOS 11 UI design.
- Thread starter Old geek 959
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Bingo! That's the problem. The way it was before was fine and it worked perfectly. Why change it? You pretty much answered your own statement.
The problems I see with iOS now is all the redundant changes made to interfaces that worked perfectly before. Although I hate minimalist design, the features brought in iOS 7 to me were much appreciated. All they did in 7 was re-theme iOS 6, and add good relevant features to make it even better. iOS 7 is my second favorite version of iOS because it actually made logical sense. The features they added on were just sprinkles on top, making a well executed release. Now they are scrambling trying to think of things to add into iOS so it hopefully isn't a worthless update. Apparently they are too scared to make another Snow Leopard move to make iOS stable, clean, and easy. I guess they think people will switch to Android if they walk on stage and say, "Today for iOS, we have no new features. Instead, we are hard at work to make iOS stable, clean, fast, and enjoyable. Even if they're are no new features, at least your devices will act brand new."
I have patience for discussion, I have no patience for comments like “people have always had questions” or “others use it just fine” and “people just don’t like change.” If you fail to understand, then so be it.
Way to be dismissive and act as if your opinion is absolute fact for the hundreds of millions of users.
Basically as I mentioned, not much of a discussion to be had if the approach is either you agree with what is said or you are just failing to understand and that's that.
Completely wrong. I’m reacting to either both or one of you or others dismissing critiques of this UI/OS by saying people just don’t like change, or that: others don’t seem to have a problem. Basically pushing against some valid critiques with flimsy statements basically critiquing those of us critiquing.
Maybe now that flat design is getting stale and Windows Phone has deservedly died we can return to tried and true principles of HCI so that our UIs once again become enjoyable and effortless to use like we took for granted in the pre-iOS7 era.
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So basically just another reply that says nothing more than "wrong" because the original premise isn't agreed with. Seems like there's a desire to vent (with all that venting comes with) but not have anyone reply or comment on it.
So here's where you're wrong. I tend to shout my opinion from the rooftops here but I often have A/B examples of how the current way of doing things is more vague or convoluted, clear to see. And I rarely tell people flat out they're wrong but you have shown zero proof for your statements other than “these are my sentiments.” So you're just wrong in your post.
Very, very small percentage. Show proof other than your opinion. Is it a very, very small percent who dislike the iOS changes? How small a percent?
The proof I have of the opposite is the noticeably increased frequency of family members and friends, including my girlfriend's parents now since they've seen me explain to my gf how to find third-party apps that are easier to use than the ones offered by Apple, who ask me questions about how to navigate iOS way, way more than they did before 2013. But since I could make that up: I also have seen many more critiques to Apple's iOS7-esque UI after 2013 than before 2013. I'd see the occasional "boy, Apple is really messing up" articles before iOS7, but they weren't nearly as frequent as after 2013 . In fact, this one makes me chuckle because i wish, I so wish I could have the iOS5 music app back:
https://www.cnet.com/news/how-apple-screwed-up-the-ipad-music-app-with-ios-5/
But unarguably there have been more frequent general critique's of Apple's software/UI decisions (including OS, which Jony/Craig/whomever has ruined too after Mavericks) after iOS7 than before:
http://cheerfulsw.com/2015/destroying-apples-legacy/
https://www.fastcodesign.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-design-a-bad-name
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/07/why-is-itunes-so-bad/399833/
https://www.theverge.com/2015/11/16/9743996/apple-designer-interview-bruce-tog-tognazzini-don-norman
http://www.elischiff.com
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-today-generally.2053819/page-3#post-24929645
So, yes you're wrong with your very, very small statement.
Here you're wrong again, and you're completely missing the point. Maybe you’re just trolling here, who knows.
Things will always change, they have to. When I changed from a Palm Treo to an Apple iPhone 4 in 2010, I was astounded at the better phone the 4 was. It was obviously a completely new operating system so a big change. But (not to overuse this term) it just worked. Then for the first three years or so of the iPad or 7 years of the iphone, slight changes were rolled out but I don’t recall complaining after quickly figured out how to navigate them, nor do I remember seeing waves of online complaints about the change because it usually was for the better as Apple learned to improve their new technology. There's good change, and there's bad change, and you're acting like folk like I and others are pissed off at any old change just because things have changed, or that once the changes in a new app is learned, all should be well. You're mute to how lots (way too much) of the changes in Apple software as of late seem to be change for the sake of change and that too often with a worsening of the product. Podcast app is a perfect example. Haven't read this much ire about an iOS app in a while. Don't believe me? Go find most any article about this iOS 11 podcast app and then look at the user comments from "real people" at the bottom. Give it a try: Google "iOS 11 podcast app" and read any positively-spun article then the comments.
http://www.iphonehacks.com/2017/09/how-to-use-ios-11-podcasts-app-iphone-ipad.html
https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/10/podcasts-in-ios-11-interface-updates-seasons-podcast/
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2017/06/06/video-hands-on-ios-11-podcasts-app/
But also in a more generic sense, the blogs/articles I posted above by others critiquing Apple's changes in UI/iOS/OS are very much critiquing poorly-thought out and poorly rolled out unnecessary changes.
So again, you're wrong in your post. Unless you can provide proof of your very, very small percentage comment, and unless you can provide proof by showing A/B comparisons yourself or showing numerous articles by others illustrating how the ios11-7 ways of doing things are better than how it was before iOS 7 (which means people like me are just complaining about change in general) then you’ll continue to be wrong.
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So here's where you're wrong. I tend to shout my opinion from the rooftops here but I often have A/B examples of how the current way of doing things is more vague or convoluted, clear to see. And I rarely tell people flat out they're wrong but you have shown zero proof for your statements other than “these are my sentiments.” So you're just wrong in your post.
Very, very small percentage. Show proof other than your opinion. Is it a very, very small percent who dislike the iOS changes? How small a percent?
The proof I have of the opposite is the noticeably increased frequency of family members and friends, including my girlfriend's parents now since they've seen me explain to my gf how to find third-party apps that are easier to use than the ones offered by Apple, who ask me questions about how to navigate iOS way, way more than they did before 2013. But since I could make that up: I also have seen many more critiques to Apple's iOS7-esque UI after 2013 than before 2013. I'd see the occasional "boy, Apple is really messing up" articles before iOS7, but they weren't nearly as frequent as after 2013 . In fact, this one makes me chuckle because i wish, I so wish I could have the iOS5 music app back:
https://www.cnet.com/news/how-apple-screwed-up-the-ipad-music-app-with-ios-5/
But unarguably there have been more frequent general critique's of Apple's software/UI decisions (including OS, which Jony/Craig/whomever has ruined too after Mavericks) after iOS7 than before:
http://cheerfulsw.com/2015/destroying-apples-legacy/
https://www.fastcodesign.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-design-a-bad-name
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/07/why-is-itunes-so-bad/399833/
https://www.theverge.com/2015/11/16/9743996/apple-designer-interview-bruce-tog-tognazzini-don-norman
http://www.elischiff.com
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-today-generally.2053819/page-3#post-24929645
So, yes you're wrong with your very, very small statement.
Here you're wrong again, and you're completely missing the point. Maybe you’re just trolling here, who knows.
Things will always change, they have to. When I changed from a Palm Treo to an Apple iPhone 4 in 2010, I was astounded at the better phone the 4 was. It was obviously a completely new operating system so a big change. But (not to overuse this term) it just worked. Then for the first three years or so of the iPad or 7 years of the iphone, slight changes were rolled out but I don’t recall complaining after quickly figured out how to navigate them, nor do I remember seeing waves of online complaints about the change because it usually was for the better as Apple learned to improve their new technology. There's good change, and there's bad change, and you're acting like folk like I and others are pissed off at any old change just because things have changed, or that once the changes in a new app is learned, all should be well. You're mute to how lots (way too much) of the changes in Apple software as of late seem to be change for the sake of change and that too often with a worsening of the product. Podcast app is a perfect example. Haven't read this much ire about an iOS app in a while. Don't believe me? Go find most any article about this iOS 11 podcast app and then look at the user comments from "real people" at the bottom. Give it a try: Google "iOS 11 podcast app" and read any positively-spun article then the comments.
http://www.iphonehacks.com/2017/09/how-to-use-ios-11-podcasts-app-iphone-ipad.html
https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/10/podcasts-in-ios-11-interface-updates-seasons-podcast/
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2017/06/06/video-hands-on-ios-11-podcasts-app/
But also in a more generic sense, the blogs/articles I posted above by others critiquing Apple's changes in UI/iOS/OS are very much critiquing poorly-thought out and poorly rolled out unnecessary changes.
So again, you're wrong in your post. Unless you can provide proof of your very, very small percentage comment, and unless you can provide proof by showing A/B comparisons yourself or showing numerous articles by others illustrating how the ios11-7 ways of doing things are better than how it was before iOS 7 (which means people put in at me are just complaining about change in general) then you’ll continue to be wrong.
Wrong
You of all people would know about being wrong so that’s fine.
[doublepost=1508241702][/doublepost]
Ha, Actually you are correct in a way I’m sure you didn’t even intend. I’ll agree that yes, the days of there being a small number of users offended by OS changes are indeed unfortunately gone. After iOS 7 are the days where many more are confused, unhappy, offended, and almost reluctant to stick with Apple.
So, good job.
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I stumbled upon this today on Twitter. One image of iOS 11 with depth and other screenshot I did as it is today. I think it proves, that everything looks and works much better with depth and contrast, than ugly cold flat design.
Attachments
That’s only your opinion that it “works better”.
Just how it’s my opinion that in your lock screen example the iOS 11 works better, because it shows off the wallpaper. It’s cleaner. It’s not ubstructed by two large, dark, fake “glass” panels.
This is a prime example of the three of you constantly “showing” side by sides and stating your OPINION as if it’s truely 100% fact. It’s not fact.
I don't think it's a matter of opinion that the date and carrier info etc. on top is more easily readable in the version with additional shading. The only question is whether or not that is more important to you than seeing the wallpaper unobstructed by other graphical elements.
Which boils down to personal opinion, and not a fact that one is undisputibly better.
Nothing anyone here has posted proves anything other than it’s their opinion that one way is better than the other.
Some like it one way, some like it the other. It’s that bloody simple.
Sure, I mean, it's all about priorities. You may value how subjectively attractive a UI looks over how quick it is to navigate, for example.
I think quite a few of us have offered some solid A/B side-by-side comparisons with examples of how the current UI way of doing things is worse than before. I've asked anyone to step away from personal preferences or tolerances and try to negate my examples by answering "what about the prior UI/design example was in need of revising? What was broken or in need of improvement, and if improved, how was it improved?"
Post 390:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ios-11-ui-design.2012805/page-16#post-25019013
Post 408:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ios-11-ui-design.2012805/page-17#post-25023449
Post 429:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ios-11-ui-design.2012805/page-18#post-25066375
If nobody can give a valid answer other than to say "the felt/woodgrain/cassette tape look was unnecessary," or "I like the new design better" or "I think the new design works better" or "I don't mind the new design," then it remains that very few changes (possibly none) away from ios6 UI are functionally better. They're just different (and too often for some of us, functionally worse and more confusing if not cumbersome).
Someone/anyone reading this: give it a try? We'll wait.
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You keep just repeating your opinion and stating them as facts.
There’s absolutely zero point in continuing this discussion, when all you do is dismiss literally everything anyone says and push your opinion on them and how you’re right and everyone else is wrong. Give it a rest. No one cares this much about an OS. The majority move on and just use their device as intended. People tap the screen, it does what they need. They either like how things are, don’t like how things are, or just outright don’t care (majority falling in the don’t care category)
Again, no point continuing a one way discussion (because you and your two shadows dismiss everything and everyone who either disagrees with you or are even neutral on the topic)
Good day
Did you even read my post?
Are you able to take my (or create new) A/B comparisons of before & after versions of an app and describe what was functionally worse or broken or in need of repair before, and then how the current way of doing things fixed the problem?
Myself and others have time & time again stated descriptive details of what about a current app makes it harder to read, discern, and more cumbersome to navigate via increased taps/swipes due to hidden/buried functions, etc., compared to the "before" app.
Sure these types of comparisons could be whittled down as being "opinions," and so be it. So let's hear an opinion standing up for the "new" way of doing things by comparing to the old way (and which is more than just "I'm ok with the new way").
Someone try to prove the opposite and walk thru why an old app's way of doing thing was considered cumbersome or "broken," and then how a new app fixes something wrong with the old app. Why are you missing that request and dismissing it as "stating of opinions?"
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For the sake of god! It's not an opinion. It is a fact. Are you blind or just defending Apple no matter what? These "fake glass" panels were there in iOS 1-6 for a reason. Why would Apple put things like that in there if it didn't serve any purpose. The most important thing is to see your information before anything else. Always. iOS 7-11 is messing with your information by merging it with your wallpaper, because there are no shadows, very low contrast and no borders between different elements of the system. This concept works only with simple or darkish wallpapers, but it's not versatile like it used to be and it's ugly, especially with some wallpapers. Look at all these things that Apple brought back to iOS 11 from iOS 6, like signal bars, bolder fonts, more lively animations and transitions, etc.
How many things did Apple change in between iOS 1-6? I don't remember them zigzagging between this and that all the time. Since iOS 7 they've changed system font like 3 times, Music app also 3 times, Control Centre also 3 times, Notification Center also 3 times, app icons many times, and that's just from the top of my head. They're not confident in their choices and they lack any clear vision.
Apple spent many years of research and development to make a brilliant, intuitive and fun to use UI and UX and then Jony Ive came in with his ego and personal hate of Scott Forstall and completelly redesigned iOS in 10 months or so, just because he could.
Did the settings app really look like that??? Omg I didnt remember!
But actually I do remember how much I liked the design back then, because no other phone had anything like it. It had this apple-esque friendliness to it, that they seem to have lost these days.
That link was great, by the way. Very insightful article. It stated that Jobs was pretty fascinated with Microsoft’s magazine-look UI. I find that hard to believe but I guess I have to take it at face value while maybe digging around more to see if that could be true.
That link though led me to this article with a quote that sums things up well.
https://medium.com/initialcommit/we-have-failed-604df0e1d3d4
“UI design is not art. It’s the opposite of art: it’s design to perform a function. To serve users.”
That’s the issue. Ios7 was treated as a minimalistic art project top to bottom rather than stick to science as the base and then art to smooth the edges.
The gall to completely redo a UI as if *every* way of doing things before was broken has fascinated me from day 1. I’ll never buy into that.
But interesting link leading to many other interesting other articles. Thanks for posting that.
[doublepost=1508273167][/doublepost]
Sigh. Time and time again all the critics can point to is stitching, leather, and felt. Missing the point entirely.
I’m thinking too the Settings example is fake? Where’d you find it?
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Here comes skeuomorphism again. Don't be that person. If you don't have valid arguments to disprove my point, then it's a dead end. I just told you how bad design affects iOS usability and all you have as a counterpoint is f****** leather sticking. How typical.
I'm not missing any point. Feyl said "Why would Apple put things in life that if there wasn't any reason" implying that every design element had a functional reason. It didn't at least none other than "Steve liked ridiculous skeumorphic frippery"