iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

[I7guy]

iOS 11 destroyed the iPhone 6 let alone the iPhone 5s.

iOS 11 was fine on my 5s prior to iOS 12.

 

[Radon87000]

You can come up with conjectures and theories, but that's different from claiming that something is proven and is absolutely the case as is stated fairly often by some.
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It's amazing how something that is destroyed can be actually used just fine by many.

Courts do accept circumstantial evidence which is to put it in your words "inferences" and "conjectures"

It doesn't work fine at all. Its slower than the budget Androids of 2017 which is the bare minimum threshold of acceptable performance. A simple messages app takes a whole 1-2 seconds to load, which is even slower than a flip phone.

 

[mrochester]

Courts do accept circumstantial evidence which is to put it in your words "inferences" and "conjectures"

It doesn't work fine at all. Its slower than the budget Androids of 2017 which is the bare minimum threshold of acceptable performance. A simple messages app takes a whole 1-2 seconds to load, which is even slower than a flip phone.

I would expect an iPhone 5S, released in 2013, to be a lot slower than a 2017 Android device.

 

[bluecoast]

And every year since then they’ve stuck to the hard and fast two updates a year rule. Look, it’s becoming painfully obvious to me that you’re just in here to push whatever idea you have about how Apple is doing something wrong. Microsoft doesn’t push out features when they’re ready, they’re either done or they wait 6 months to hopefully get ready. That’s similar to what Apple is doing with the rumored home screen update.

Also, releasing UI changes piecemeal is a bad idea. It’s just awful.

Agreed, it's why Windows 10 has such a scrappy look to it with the Start menu, Mail, Edge & Mail looking modern, but most of the accessories programs looking like they've last been touched in the Win7 era.

You'd imagine that Explorer is probably going to be the last major part of Windows 10 to be updated to the UWP look (if ever).

Until then, you can expect to see half of Windows have the 'bigger' font look with Fluid transparencies and then the familiar Win32 font sizes in Explorer.

I do think that macOS needs an UX update (and I'm sure that that is coming next year) but until then, it feels a very consistent & polished UX.

 

[Radon87000]

I would expect an iPhone 5S, released in 2013, to be a lot slower than a 2017 Android device.

Not really. For Instance the 7 Plus is 2 years old and still outperforms all budget androids and by the looks of it will continue to outperform in 2019, 3 years after release. The iPhone 6 was getting a run for its money from budget Androids after just 2 years. It was honestly the worst iPhone Apple ever released. It was gimped by 1GB ram right from the GEt go and that’s not considering all the other issues in addition to performance its plagued with.

 

[mrochester]

Not really. For Instance the 7 Plus is 2 years old and still outperforms all budget androids and by the looks of it will continue to outperform in 2019, 3 years after release. The iPhone 6 was getting a run for its money from budget Androids after just 2 years. It was honestly the worst iPhone Apple ever released. It was gimped by 1GB ram right from the GEt go.

Yes, really! Hardware has progressed at a phenomenal rate after 4 years, just look at how much more powerful the X is in comparison to the 5S.

 

[Radon87000]

Yes, really! Hardware has progressed at a phenomenal rate after 4 years, just look at how much more powerful the X is in comparison to the 5S.

But the slowdown still hasn't disappeared. That's the main point. Apple keeps adding features the older devices cannot handle. The 7 Plus is not as fast in 2018 as it was in 2016. The only solution is to keep it forever on the original iOS it shipped with in order to avoid the slowdown. Supposedly the A10 chip is as fast as some laptop CPUs but they do not slow down at all in my experience.

 

[mrochester]

But the slowdown still hasn't disappeared. That's the main point. Apple keeps adding features the older devices cannot handle. The 7 Plus is not as fast in 2018 as it was in 2016. The only solution is to keep it forever on the original iOS it shipped with in order to avoid the slowdown. Supposedly the A10 chip is as fast as some laptop CPUs but they do not slow down at all in my experience.

As you add new software features, older hardware will begin to feel slower, primarily because older device performance isn’t a massively high priority when it comes to developing said software. iOS 12 is a concerted effort to prioritise that much higher than it normally would be.

Leaving/letting devices be stuck on an older version of an OS and having to support and maintain that in tandem with multiple newer versions is a very bad idea.

 

[FeliApple]

As you add new software features, older hardware will begin to feel slower, primarily because older device performance isn’t a massively high priority when it comes to developing said software. iOS 12 is a concerted effort to prioritise that much higher than it normally would be.

Leaving/letting devices be stuck on an older version of an OS and having to support and maintain that in tandem with multiple newer versions is a very bad idea.

Why is allowing devices to stay in older versions a bad idea? If you aren't going to work to maintain performance, then at least allow me to decide whether to sacrifice performance or not.
At this point, I don't really care if they support older versions. Don't support them, but let the user take the risk.
I'm staying in older versions anyway regardless of Apple's insistence to update, for example, and although we are the minority, there are many others.

 

[C DM]

Courts do accept circumstantial evidence which is to put it in your words "inferences" and "conjectures"

It doesn't work fine at all. Its slower than the budget Androids of 2017 which is the bare minimum threshold of acceptable performance. A simple messages app takes a whole 1-2 seconds to load, which is even slower than a flip phone.

Courts might accept circumstantial evidence and someone's interpretation of it (as in their suppositions and theories), but that doesn't make anything proven or established. All of which is still consistent with what I've said (even though none of this has to do with legal interpretations of something, but rather simple logic).

And thank you for demonstrating and clarifying that the usage of destroyed doesn't mean what the word actually means.

 

[I7guy]

But the slowdown still hasn't disappeared. That's the main point. Apple keeps adding features the older devices cannot handle. The 7 Plus is not as fast in 2018 as it was in 2016. The only solution is to keep it forever on the original iOS it shipped with in order to avoid the slowdown. Supposedly the A10 chip is as fast as some laptop CPUs but they do not slow down at all in my experience.

What slowdown specifically and to what devices and who determines usability? Or is this just anecdotal? Because it’s been proven that Apple doesn’t slow down iOS devices.

 

[JagdTiger]

Everything is planned obsolescence even humans, this is what nature does, it plans organic bio-forms to be obsolete.

 

[mrochester]

Why is allowing devices to stay in older versions a bad idea? If you aren't going to work to maintain performance, then at least allow me to decide whether to sacrifice performance or not.
At this point, I don't really care if they support older versions. Don't support them, but let the user take the risk.
I'm staying in older versions anyway regardless of Apple's insistence to update, for example, and although we are the minority, there are many others.

Because the manufacturer then has to support that older version and when you have such complex systems, that becomes incredibly difficult.

 

[FeliApple]

Because the manufacturer then has to support that older version and when you have such complex systems, that becomes incredibly difficult.

Don't support them. Just allow me to go back and let me choose. I'm not asking for support. I am staying behind without support anyway.

 

[mrochester]

Don't support them. Just allow me to go back and let me choose. I'm not asking for support. I am staying behind without support anyway.

That's probably fine to say for you, but when you are talking about 99% of smartphone users out there, telling them they have to take that responsibility for themselves just isn't a viable option.

 

[FeliApple]

That's probably fine to say for you, but when you are talking about 99% of smartphone users out there, telling them they have to take that responsibility for themselves just isn't a viable option.

Why not? Put heavy disclaimers, or make it so you have to downgrade by downloading the IPSW on a computer as it is now (nobody knows how to do that unless they look it up), so it will work fine for everyone, both the ones who want to update, and the ones who don't.

 

[JohnnyW2K1]

Clearly from your argument and what you consider as “being at fault” for Apple, you’re not from the software development industry. That’s why I won’t get to the details of how what you consider as a good thing is actually a very bad approach from software development standpoint but as someone who lives for software, let me tell you. Being able to downgrade is NOT a good thing in terms of the customer or the manufacturer.

But I agree with the title of this topic being wrong.

I am from the software development world. I am the head of web for a multi-million dollar company (believe it or not, it makes no difference to me). Everything he said was correct, whereas every time I’ve seen you comment on software development on this forum you’ve been off the mark (like when you said that iOS system animation was handled by a series of PNGs).

It’s strange because you certainly SELL yourself as being in the software development world. What exactly do you do?

 

[Feenician]

Planned Obsolescence unlike the moon landing is not a conspiracy theory. Its something they were actually caught with their pants down and this is all a way to make amends.

Though he does seem to have difficulty making up his mind

They are not maliciously conspiring. They are simply indifferent to it

 

[JohnnyW2K1]

Yes, really! Hardware has progressed at a phenomenal rate after 4 years, just look at how much more powerful the X is in comparison to the 5S.

The OS doesn’t need all that computing power to perform basic tasks. Running games, doing complex things, sure, but not day to day. That’s why non-upgraded older devices run just as fast as iPhone Xs.
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Though he does seem to have difficulty making up his mind

Seems consistent to me?

 

[Feenician]

The OS doesn’t need all that computing power to perform basic tasks. Running games, doing complex things, sure, but not day to day. That’s why non-upgraded older devices run just as fast as iPhone Xs.
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Seems consistent to me?

"It's not a conspiracy theory... It's something they were actually caught (doing)"

and

"They are not maliciously conspiring"

Seem consistent to you? Ok.

 

[gaanee]

Apple removed battery API from iOS12, so 3rd-party developers and users cannot check battery health and correlate that with performance.
Does it mean Apple is preparing for planned obsolescence in the future?

 

[JohnnyW2K1]

I see what you’re attempting to say now. What’s your point?
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It's not possible to arrive at a conclusion we all agree with. Our argument is that regardless of Apple's intentionality, devices are slower - many times, and if updated far enough, they're slow enough that I don't want to use them anymore - but that, in and of itself, doesn't prove planned obsolescence. Which is correct. It doesn't.
But AT LEAST Apple is at fault by not doing enough to optimize updates. Apple is at fault by nagging endlessly to update. Apple is at fault by forcing users to update if they have an issue and have to restore. Apple is at fault by not allowing to downgrade. Apple is at fault by instructing support to tell people to always update to try to solve everything. We will never get proof. Because they want Apple to say "yes, we engage in planned obsolescence and make devices slower, either on purpose or (and this is my argument, and what I have been saying), we don't optimize updates enough because of many factors (lack of time because they have to issue an update every year, because they don't care, because they want to take advantage of the power of the newest devices, etc)." That will never happen.
Some people say that devices aren't even slowed down, maybe because they have newer devices because if you compare, for example, an iPod Touch 4 or 5G in iOS 4 and 6 respectively, with an iPod Touch 4 and 5G in iOS 6 and 9 respectively, the latter are awful.
Maybe calling it planned obsolescence is wrong. Maybe it should have been worded differently. Maybe there, we will all agree. Perhaps, we should have called it: "Why do iOS updates slow down devices, and why does Apple doesn't put in enough effort to optimize iOS updates?" That doesn't imply planned obsolescence. That title could have allowed a different discussion.

Completely agree.
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None of which implies, let alone actually proves or at least even demonstrates, a long standing malicious conspiracy.

Where did he say that he evidence of a “long standing malicious conspiracy”? This is a classic example of putting words into someone’s mouth.

 

[Feenician]

I see what you’re attempting to say now. What’s your point?

Are you replying to me? If so my point is that you calling someone a troll, because they said Radon87000 was claiming a long standing conspiracy, was dishonest given that he'd done exactly that (and also exactly the opposite for whenever the constantly moving target that is his argument change. That would be my point.)

However I see that either you don't have courage of your convictions and edited your accusation of trolling out, or perhaps a mod did, given that it's very much against the rules. So that's nice.

 

[TimmeyCook]

Apple removed battery API from iOS12, so 3rd-party developers and users cannot check battery health and correlate that with performance.
Does it mean Apple is preparing for planned obsolescence in the future?

Not.
At.
All.

1st. Apple introduced a battery health information pane in the system itself. In fact, Apple is the only manufacturer to do this, all the others hide it from the user, very well hidden.

2nd. Apple removed that because it was being used by adtech

Explain how is that "planned obsolescence".

Everything is planned obsolescence when it comes from Apple. Found a rock in your way? Obviously it's planned obsolescence by Apple Maps. Gained a few pounds when you were expecting to lose? Planed obsolescence by Apple Watch.

 

[C DM]

Where did he say that he evidence of a “long standing malicious conspiracy”? This is a classic example of putting words into someone’s mouth.

As in the claims that planned obsolescence is in fact in play and all these various things are proof of it? A good part of this thread and many other previous ones about this kind of thing deal with that. Are we somehow overlooking large repeated parts of these discussions all of a sudden? I mean after many long threads and about 40 pages of this one (so far) I guess that wouldn't be all that surprising.