iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

[akash.nu]

I am from the software development world. I am the head of web for a multi-million dollar company (believe it or not, it makes no difference to me). Everything he said was correct, whereas every time I’ve seen you comment on software development on this forum you’ve been off the mark (like when you said that iOS system animation was handled by a series of PNGs).

It’s strange because you certainly SELL yourself as being in the software development world. What exactly do you do?

I remember that discussion but have forgotten the context completely at this point. I’ve been involved in a lot of big projects on iOS and believe it or not, a lot of those projects did use a series of png for custom animation. I can’t remember if I said it in context of system animation or custom animation though. It was a mistake if I did that. I’m willing to accept that.

I’m director of technology at a software development company.

 

[Radon87000]

No one in this thread still has any explanation on why a user is being forced to use a slower phone than the one he paid for and yet its not planned obsolescence. Nice.

 

[Feenician]

No one in this thread still has any explanation on why a user is being forced to use a slower phone than the one he paid for and yet its not planned obsolescence. Nice.

As a wise man once said

They are not maliciously conspiring. They are simply indifferent to it

 

[Radon87000]

As a wise man once said

So how is that inconsistent? Theirs is no conspiracy. The slowdown is a reality

No difference between maliciously conspiring and malicious conspiracy.

 

[C DM]

So how is that inconsistent? Theirs is no conspiracy. The slowdown is a reality

No difference between maliciously conspiring and malicious conspiracy.

So, since planned obsolescence is a malicious conspiracy, then there is no planned obsolescence then. Just simple logic.

 

[Feenician]

So how is that inconsistent? Theirs is no conspiracy

Planned Obsolescence... is not a conspiracy theory. Its something they were actually caught (doing)

They are not maliciously conspiring. They are simply indifferent to it

One of these things is not like the other. One of these things just doesn’t belong.

 

[Radon87000]

One of these things is not like the other. One of these things just doesn’t belong.

You are just misunderstanding what is being said. I see no difference between the 3. The only possible other intrepretation of the third statement is when I say they are not maliciously conspiring I imply they are conspiring but its not malicious which is not what i intended to say.

 

[TimmeyCook]

No one in this thread still has any explanation on why a user is being forced to use a slower phone than the one he paid for and yet its not planned obsolescence. Nice.

From Wikipedia:

Planned obsolescence, or built-in obsolescence, in industrial design and economics is a policy of planning or designing a product with an artificially limited useful life, so it will become obsolete (that is, unfashionable or no longer functional) after a certain period of time.[1] The rationale behind the strategy is to generate long-term sales volume by reducing the time between repeat purchases (referred to as "shortening the replacement cycle").[2]

I'm limited the sample to the United States, unless there is an objection, because it's where there are more data available on the web, and contrary to some countries, like China, there isn't a firewall.

According to CounterPoint data [1], Apple only sells 35.8% of the phones (average from the 5 trimesters they show). The various Android OEM's getting the remaining 64.2%

According to GStatCounter data [2], iOS, which is exclusive to Apple, as we know is responsible for 53.6% of the mobile use data in the US.

When a company that sells 35.8% of the phones has a 53.6% of the phones active, that's only possible when the average lifespan of their devices outlasts the competition by 49,7%.

Mind you that Apple has the iPhone update program, that sends you a new iPhone every 12 months that auto-retires the phones either they are apt or not, no-one in the competition, I think, has a program similar to that.

So if Apple does planned obsolescence, then everyone is doing much worse planned obsolescence.

[1] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/
[2] http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america

 

[Radon87000]

So, since planned obsolescence is a malicious conspiracy, then there is no planned obsolescence then. Just simple logic.

Planned obsolescence is being implemented right now on our phones. It cant be a conspiracy theory because the person in question is actually doing it. If someone is constantly updating the phone implementing features which I didn’t ask for and more importantly slowing it down its clear what the intentions are.

 

[Feenician]

You are just misunderstanding what is being said. I see no difference between the 3. The only possible other intrepretation of the third statement is when I say they are not maliciously conspiring I imply they are conspiring but its not malicious which is not what i intended to say.

The second statement clearly contradicts the others. End of story.

 

[Radon87000]

From Wikipedia:



I'm limited the sample to the United States, unless there is an objection, because it's where there are more data available on the web, and contrary to some countries, like China, there isn't a firewall.

According to CounterPoint data [1], Apple only sells 35.8% of the phones (average from the 5 trimesters they show). The various Android OEM's getting the remaining 64.2%

According to GStatCounter data [2], iOS, which is exclusive to Apple, as we know is responsible for 53.6% of the mobile use data in the US.

When a company that sells 35.8% of the phones has a 53.6% of the phones active, that's only possible when the average lifespan of their devices outlasts the competition by 49,7%.

Mind you that Apple has the iPhone update program, that sends you a new iPhone every 12 months that auto-retires the phones either they are apt or not, no-one in the competition, I think, has a program similar to that.

So if Apple does planned obsolescence, then everyone is doing much worse planned obsolescence.

[1] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/
[2] http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america

Clearly you haven’t been following the thread. I fully agree with you that many companies apart from Apple engage in planned obsolescence. Logitech did it with their G600 series mice. The sensor inside the mouse keeps failings after one year as a result of which when you scroll the mouse reverse scrolls. Replace it once within warranty and the problem recurs after one year. Well documented on Reddit.

 

[gaanee]

Used by adtech.. for identifying and tracking a user? If so, then makes sense otherwise it would have been good if battery API was left there just in case as an access point for techie devs and users even though it may not be as accurate as Apple's own.

1st. Apple introduced a battery health information pane in the system itself. In fact, Apple is the only manufacturer to do this, all the others hide it from the user, very well hidden.

2nd. Apple removed that because it was being used by adtech

Explain how is that "planned obsolescence".

 

[C DM]

Planned obsolescence is being implemented right now on our phones. It cant be a conspiracy theory because the person in question is actually doing it. If someone is constantly updating the phone implementing features which I didn’t ask for and more importantly slowing it down its clear what the intentions are.

You seem to be confusing and interchanging conspiracy and conpsiracy theory.

Again, since planned obsolescence is a malicious conspiracy in its nature, and you yourself said that they aren't maliciously conspiring, therefore by your own statement planned obsolescence isn't there then.

 

[d5aqoëp]

I am really enjoying this thread with Popcorn. Maybe a little less as some of the members are on my ignore list as they add very little to the topic.

 

[Radon87000]

You seem to be confusing and interchanging conspiracy and conpsiracy theory.

Again, since planned obsolescence is a malicious conspiracy in its nature, and you yourself said that they aren't maliciously conspiring, therefore by your own statement planned obsolescence isn't there then.

I do not know the difference between a conspiracy and conspiracy theory. They seem the same to me. A quick google search also didn't show up any results.

I will rephrase. Apple isnt maliciously conspiring. When I say planned obsolescence I mean they push out updates knowing full well how the phone currently runs. As the phone slows down people get new ones. It's planned in the sense they already know the impact of the update but push it anyway. They knew the impact of throttlegate but they pushed it anyway. They knew the impact of Touch Disease but shipped the phone anyway.

 

[TimmeyCook]

Logitech did it with their G600 series mice. The sensor inside the mouse keeps failings after one year as a result of which when you scroll the mouse reverse scrolls. Replace it once within warranty and the problem recurs after one year. Well documented on Reddit.

Having known problems is NOT planned obsolescence.

Also, "crowd sourced" investigations like that are always crap.

 

[mrochester]

I do not know the difference between a conspiracy and conspiracy theory. They seem the same to me. A quick google search also didn't show up any results.

I will rephrase. Apple isnt maliciously conspiring. When I say planned obsolescence I mean they push out updates knowing full well how the phone currently runs. As the phone slows down people get new ones. It's planned in the sense they already know the impact of the update but push it anyway. They knew the impact of throttlegate but they pushed it anyway. They knew the impact of Touch Disease but shipped the phone anyway.

So why do you keep calling it planned obsolescence when it is not?

 

[d5aqoëp]

I do not know the difference between a conspiracy and conspiracy theory. They seem the same to me. A quick google search also didn't show up any results.

I will rephrase. Apple isnt maliciously conspiring. When I say planned obsolescence I mean they push out updates knowing full well how the phone currently runs. As the phone slows down people get new ones. It's planned in the sense they already know the impact of the update but push it anyway. They knew the impact of throttlegate but they pushed it anyway. They knew the impact of Touch Disease but shipped the phone anyway.

The only silver lining is at least they are updating their 5 yr old device. Tell that to any Android device manufacturer and they will laugh on your face. I think Apple will never acknowledge throttlegate, touch disease or recent mic replacement program on iPhone 7 because it would mean more lawsuits, negative publicity and monetary loss. Every corporation has to walk a thin line and balance CSR and finances. PO will always exist and if Apple is bothering you so much they you must jump over to the Android side.

 

[Radon87000]

Having known problems is NOT planned obsolescence.

Also, "crowd sourced" investigations like that are always crap.

Having problems is not a fault. When a company intentionally uses lower cost components for the sake of profits and straight up tells the customers after warranty that they are SOL when it was not their fault in the first place leaving the only option being to get a newer product, that's planned obsolescence. Also before someone asks why don't I switch brands, I was one of the Logitech MX 518 users and no mouse has the ergonomics and comfort of their mice and hence I have to get their product again.

It's not a crowd sourced investigation. It's been happening on their products since 2014. Well documented. They know about it but don't fix it. I can't find the link but someone on Reddit opened up their mouse and replaced the sensor with a new one bought by the user himself and the problem disappeared forever. Simply search "Logitech g600 reverse scroll" on google.

So why do you keep calling it planned obsolescence when it is not?

I don't really care what name it's given. There is an intentional slowdown. Call it planned obsolescence/ forced obsolescence whatever.
[doublepost=1531898352][/doublepost]

The only silver lining is at least they are updating their 5 yr old device. Tell that to any Android device manufacturer and they will laugh on your face. I think Apple will never acknowledge throttlegate, touch disease or recent mic replacement program on iPhone 7 because it would mean more lawsuits, negative publicity and monetary loss. Every corporation has to walk a thin line and balance CSR and finances. PO will always exist and if Apple is bothering you so much they you must jump over to the Android side.

I am glad you admit P/O exists. That's all I really care to prove. I have already found the solution to my problem. I will keep my iOS device on older iOS version or till the time Android has a decent tablet and a watch whichever is fixed earlier.

 

[d5aqoëp]

I am glad you admit P/O exists. That's all I really care to prove. I have already found the solution to my problem. I will keep my iOS device on older iOS version or till the time Android has a decent tablet and a watch whichever is fixed earlier.

I have always complained about PO and especially how it rendered our ‘once fast’ Home button, slow and laggy on iOS 11. Have you forgotten my topic about Home Button last year where I had given proofs and even you had posted a video proof which was never refuted? We had solid proofs but still the topic was derailed by rabid fanboism and eventually deleted because neither side budged.

I can already see this topic is dwelling into same levels of mediocrity where similar arguments are going round and round. Apple going out of their way to address allegations of PO this year for iOS 12 is huge victory for us. I honestly think you should stop and get on with life (unless you are getting some twisted fun out of it )
Remember: You have already won. Go bask in your glory!

 

[Michael Goff]

Having problems is not a fault. When a company intentionally uses lower cost components for the sake of profits and straight up tells the customers after warranty that they are SOL when it was not their fault in the first place leaving the only option being to get a newer product, that's planned obsolescence. Also before someone asks why don't I switch brands, I was one of the Logitech MX 518 users and no mouse has the ergonomics and comfort of their mice and hence I have to get their product again.

It's not a crowd sourced investigation. It's been happening on their products since 2014. Well documented. They know about it but don't fix it. I can't find the link but someone on Reddit opened up their mouse and replaced the sensor with a new one bought by the user himself and the problem disappeared forever. Simply search "Logitech g600 reverse scroll" on google.




I don't really care what name it's given. There is an intentional slowdown. Call it planned obsolescence/ forced obsolescence whatever.
[doublepost=1531898352][/doublepost]

I am glad you admit P/O exists. That's all I really care to prove. I have already found the solution to my problem. I will keep my iOS device on older iOS version or till the time Android has a decent tablet and a watch whichever is fixed earlier.

Excellent. We finally have somebody with proof that it’s intentional. I await any evidence.

 

[I7guy]

I have always complained about PO and especially how it rendered our ‘once fast’ Home button, slow and laggy on iOS 11. Have you forgotten my topic about Home Button last year where I had given proofs and even you had posted a video proof which was never refuted? We had solid proofs but still the topic was derailed by rabid fanboism and eventually deleted because neither side budged.

I can already see this topic is dwelling into same levels of mediocrity where similar arguments are going round and round. Apple going out of their way to address allegations of PO this year for iOS 12 is huge victory for us. I honestly think you should stop and get on with life (unless you are getting some twisted fun out of it )
Remember: You have already won. Go bask in your glory!

“Slow and laggy” on iOS 11? People were still waiting on the proofs of the videos that never showed anything out of the ordinary. The opposite of rabid fanboism is in this thread, rabid irrationality and may have already sunk into the depths of mediocrity. What is construed as proof is a low bar these days.

 

[Radon87000]

Excellent. We finally have somebody with proof that it’s intentional. I await any evidence.

As has been posted before Apple will never come out and explicitly admit they were slowing down older devices with updates. Apple piles update upon update on older devices not caring for one minute how the user experience is on it. I for one do not believe that no one at Apple HQ used iOS 8-11 on an iPhone 6 and did not notice the degradation in performance and was still approving updates. The iPhone 6 should never have gotten iOS 11 as also the Air 2. The fact they do not offer a downgrade option is the last straw.

Multiple reviews have noticed the dramatic improvement in performance in iOS 12 on these phones. This indicates Apple knew what was wrong with them all these years as the statistics they are quoting of a 200% increase in performance in is simply impossible to achieve if they were optimising for older devices all along. They were not optimising purely out of business considerations.

 

[FFR]

I don't really care what name it's given. There is an intentional slowdown. Call it planned obsolescence/ forced obsolescence whatever.
[doublepost=1531898352][/doublepost]

Thats the problem planned obsolescence is when an oem will elect not to update their devices or os or software at the time of designing/writing said device or software.

Which is not the case here. I mean you could argue that google and android have an inherent planned obsolescence when it comes to their hardware and software...

But What your talking about with Apple is referred to as sabotage. And your theory is that Apple chooses to sabotage their own devices after a year or two to drive new phone sales?

Is that right?


But android and android oems with only two years of updates isn’t planned obsolescence?

Your theory doesn’t make much sense.

 

[I7guy]

As has been posted before Apple will never come out and explicitly admit they were slowing down older devices with updates. Apple piles update upon update on older devices not caring for one minute how the user experience is on it. I for one do not believe that no one at Apple HQ used iOS 8-11 on an iPhone 6 and did not notice the degradation in performance and was still approving updates. The iPhone 6 should never have gotten iOS 11 as also the Air 2. The fact they do not offer a downgrade option is the last straw.

Multiple reviews have noticed the dramatic improvement in performance in iOS 12 on these phones. This indicates Apple knew what was wrong with them all these years as the statistics they are quoting of a 200% increase in performance in is simply impossible to achieve if they were optimising for older devices all along. They were not optimising purely out of business considerations.

That’s the thing, it’s been proven Apple doesn’t slow down older devices...which doesn’t mean the experiences across the range of devices and configurations are exactly the same.

And if you discount the evidence that Apple doesn’t slow down older devices with new updates, we must discount the same (including anecdotal) that it does.

My 5s, 6s and 7 performance didn’t significantly/noticeably change since the initial iOS releases. Other people claim the same, other people claim different. The definition of “faster” and “slower” is a personal definition.
[doublepost=1531919249][/doublepost]

Having problems is not a fault. When a company intentionally uses lower cost components for the sake of profits and straight up tells the customers after warranty that they are SOL when it was not their fault in the first place leaving the only option being to get a newer product, that's planned obsolescence. Also before someone asks why don't I switch brands, I was one of the Logitech MX 518 users and no mouse has the ergonomics and comfort of their mice and hence I have to get their product again.

It's not a crowd sourced investigation. It's been happening on their products since 2014. Well documented. They know about it but don't fix it. I can't find the link but someone on Reddit opened up their mouse and replaced the sensor with a new one bought by the user himself and the problem disappeared forever. Simply search "Logitech g600 reverse scroll" on google.




I don't really care what name it's given. There is an intentional slowdown. Call it planned obsolescence/ forced obsolescence whatever.
[doublepost=1531898352][/doublepost]

I am glad you admit P/O exists. That's all I really care to prove. I have already found the solution to my problem. I will keep my iOS device on older iOS version or till the time Android has a decent tablet and a watch whichever is fixed earlier.

I await your proof that Apple intentionally used lower cost components as opposed to designing a phone for the average user.

It’s akin to suggesting the crumple zones in cars are lower cost because chrome bumpers didnt break.