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iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

I7guy said:
Android phones just shut off. Not a particular desired response in my book, but you may want that.
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What is your source for this infomation? Has any Android manufacturer admitted to throttling phones as the battery wears?

Also didn’t Apple just implement a toggle into iOS which does just that?


Who you chose to “believe” is on you. If benchmarks developers cheat, and your youtubers cheat and third parties are paid off, there is no one left except the manufacturer.
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But the manufacturer is the accused and has an eye on my wallet and has cheated in the past so he cant be believed either. The only way out of this conundrum is to see videos from YouTubers whose bias is against the device you want to see reviewed. Read iPhone reviews on Android websites/YouTube channels and vice versa.

I disagree with your disagreement. My 5s is very usable. Pretty snappy for a 2013 device.
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Please make a recording of your iPhone 5s opening the YouTube app and post it here so we can see exactly how snappy it is.
 
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FeliApple said:
Agree.
But for reference: Just tried overall native app speed launch on my iPod Touch 5G on iOS 6 versus an iPhone 7 plus on iOS 10. The 7 plus was faster, but not by much. (Anecdotal, I know, this is just to state a point).
Now, you can say: Yes, but if you try, for example, a heavy graphics game, the 7+ will launch it far faster. It probably will, but my point is that if I perform that same test with, say, an updated iPhone 6, which should be far more powerful (A5 vs A8, 512MB of RAM vs 1GB) than my iPod Touch, my iPod will blow the iPhone 6 out of the water. But, if I perform that same test with an iPhone 6 on iOS 8, I'm pretty confident to say that if the iPhone doesn't win, it will be very close. Device power isn't as decisive if we compare app launch speed. What matters is the iOS version. The more powerful a device is, the faster it will launch apps, if we compare them on initial iOS versions. If we alter the iOS version enough on the newer device, it will probably lose, against far weaker "opponents".
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There are YouTube videos proving this very point.
 
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Radon87000 said:
What is your source for this infomation?
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Google.

Also didn’t Apple just implement a toggle into iOS which does just that?
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Yes they yes they did, and some people may prefer shutdown to power management.

But the manufacturer is the accused and has an eye on my wallet and has cheated in the past so he cant be believed either. The only way out of this conundrum is to see videos from YouTubers whose bias is against the device you want to see reviewed. Read iPhone reviews on Android websites/YouTube channels and vice versa.
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Having an “eye in your wallet”, is not the same as sabotage. That a manufacturer hopes you will buy a new, improved and better product is not the same as a malicious conspiracy of planned obsolescence. Youtube is useless as you yourself admitted malfeasance is so easy.

Please make a recording of your iPhone 5s opening the YouTube app and post it here so we can see exactly how snappy it is.[/QUOTE]
You want me to waste my time making a video of a 2013 device, which gets destroyed by 2108 hardware to the same crowd that claimed iOS 11 destroyed an iPhone 7? I don’t think so.
 
I7guy said:
Google.


Yes they yes they did, and some people may prefer shutdown to power management.


Having an “eye in your wallet”, is not the same as sabotage. That a manufacturer hopes you will buy a new, improved and better product is not the same as a malicious conspiracy of planned obsolescence. Youtube is useless as you yourself admitted malfeasance is so easy.

Please make a recording of your iPhone 5s opening the YouTube app and post it here so we can see exactly how snappy it is.
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You want me to waste my time making a video of a 2013 device, which gets destroyed by 2108 hardware to the same crowd that claimed iOS 11 destroyed an iPhone 7? I don’t think so.[/QUOTE]
It will get destroyed by the same iPhone 5s... On iOS 8. Or 7.
 
FeliApple said:
You want me to waste my time making a video of a 2013 device, which gets destroyed by 2108 hardware to the same crowd that claimed iOS 11 destroyed an iPhone 7? I don’t think so.
It will get destroyed by the same iPhone 5s... On iOS 8. Or 7.
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Running the exact same version of the app? If one can’t run the exact same version it’s not an apple’s to apple’s comparison.(pun intended)
 
I7guy said:
NOT really a valid comparison, then is it?
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How's that not valid? Is boot speed not valid, either? Is any speed comparison not valid, because,
For instance, if you consider fully updated third party apps you might argue: But as the OS consumes more resources, the comparison - even though apps are fully updated on both devices - isn't really fair.
That isn't a valid argument. At all.
 
FeliApple said:
How's that not valid? Is boot speed not valid, either? Is any speed comparison not valid, because,
For instance, if you consider fully updated third party apps you might argue: But as the OS consumes more resources, the comparison - even though apps are fully updated on both devices - isn't really fair.
That isn't a valid argument. At all.
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Well Youtube of 2018 might be doing 100 things more at startup than Youtube of 2013. Hence why it isn’t a valid comparison and a valid argument.

As far as boot speed, that’s like gauging the performance of a car by how fast it starts.
 
I7guy said:
Well Youtube of 2018 might be doing 100 things more at startup than Youtube of 2013. Hence why it isn’t a valid comparison and a valid argument.

As far as boot speed, that’s like gauging the performance of a car by how fast it starts.
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Fully updated third party apps are still faster.
 
C DM said:
What does that have to do with what I've been commenting on?
But that is what this thread and various other ones like it have been and are about, it's right in the very title even: "planned obsolescence". That is something that has a particular meaning attached to it that relates in particular to motive. These types of threads aren't about the "what" aspect of it, but the "why", even though they end up meandering all over essentially.
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So... you're stirring up all these arguments because of two words in the title of a thread with over a thousand posts in it? Have you actually read the original post (beyond the title), btw? The author makes no strong assertions that Apple definitely engages in planned obsolesce, but simply that the counter-arguments against that idea are now "less believable".

You keep arguing with a point that nobody else is, not even the OP. Again, I consider this trolling.

Furthermore you won't answer the simple question that naturally stems from this discussion: Do you believe some iOS devices have become slower with newer firmware updates?

It's directly related to the OP, the very seed of this whole discussion, but you only post to argue with others, never set an argument up yourself. Again, textbook trolling.
[doublepost=1532184256][/doublepost]
I7guy said:
Splitting hairs. I saw the Youtube video of iOS 7 vs iOS 11. If one were to believe that video, some things were flat out faster in iOS 11 and other things were slower, by a hair.
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On the contrary, you can't trust anything on YouTube, remember?
 
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JohnnyW2K1 said:
So... you're stirring up all these arguments because of two words in the title of a thread with over a thousand posts in it? Have you actually read the original post (beyond the title), btw? The author makes no strong assertions that Apple definitely engages in planned obsolesce, but simply that the counter-arguments against that idea are now "less believable".

You keep arguing with a point that nobody else is, not even the OP. Again, I consider this trolling.

Furthermore you won't answer the simple question that naturally stems from this discussion: Do you believe some iOS devices have become slower with newer firmware updates?

It's directly related to the OP, the very seed of this whole discussion, but you only post to argue with others, never set an argument up yourself. Again, textbook trolling.
[doublepost=1532184256][/doublepost]

On the contrary, you can't trust anything on YouTube, remember?
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Absolutely. Which is exactly the reason the video may not be showing the correct information, which is IOS 11 is totally faster than ios 7, in every aspect. But trusting is different than commenting.:p

But I will answer, imo, the burning question about whether ios devicec "slow down" with ios releases. Since we've established virtually nothing can be trusted and different people "trust" different sources differently, including anecdotal experiences, we can't ever get an answer that is proof positive. But if I were taking a deposition, I would say no in general for most 64 bit phones and for 32 bit devices, it depends.

As far as the point of the title of thread, "planned obsolescence", the malicious (or conspiracy) part of it, is exactly what the op is saying and this entire debate is about.
 
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I7guy said:
As far as the point of the title of thread, "planned obsolescence", the malicious (or conspiracy) part of it, is exactly what the op is saying and this entire debate is about.
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The OP never made claim that Apple definitely engaged in "planned obsolescence" any more than you have. Just by using the words doesn't mean you are convinced of its existence.
 
I7guy said:
Google.
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You need to be more specific because Google is full of anecdotal claims.


Yes they yes they did, and some people may prefer shutdown to power management.
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So even if we for a moment assume that Android phones die when the battery wears, nothing wrong with it as Apple fully supports this


Having an “eye in your wallet”, is not the same as sabotage. That a manufacturer hopes you will buy a new, improved and better product is not the same as a malicious conspiracy of planned obsolescence. Youtube is useless as you yourself admitted malfeasance is so easy.
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Apple is focused on profits. Supporting older products for longer conflicts with that objective. When you sabotage something you maliciously insert code designed to do nefarious activities like malware. Whats happening here is Apple intentionally ignoring older phones so people buy new ones?

I would like to hear your explanation on how Samsung supposedly paid off EverythingApplePro, the guy who cheated in a speed test to give Apple the win and has more iPhones than my nearby Apple Store.

You want me to waste my time making a video of a 2013 device, which gets destroyed by 2108 hardware to the same crowd that claimed iOS 11 destroyed an iPhone 7? I don’t think so.
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I posted my videos backing up my claim. Now the ball is in the court of the naysayers to do the same
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I7guy said:
Running the exact same version of the app? If one can’t run the exact same version it’s not an apple’s to apple’s comparison.(pun intended)
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You don't even need an app. The basic settings menu opens at least twice as fast on iOS 7.
 
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Radon87000 said:
You need to be more specific because Google is full of anecdotal claims.
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You agree google (and youtube are full of anecdotal claims? Great we agree, no need to go any further than.

So even if we for a moment assume that Android phones die when the battery wears, nothing wrong with it as Apple fully supports this
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Are you saying what's good for Android is good for Apple?

[Apple is focused on profits. Supporting older products for longer conflicts with that objective. When you sabotage something you maliciously insert code designed to do nefarious activities like malware. Whats happening here is Apple intentionally ignoring older phones so people buy new ones?
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What? Apple is focused on profits? Meaning American fortune 10 companies don't have to drive their business to earn revenue and profits. Or are you referring to the old, tired meme. Profits first, customers second? Even by your standard, intentionally ignoring is not malicious. I don't have a problem with "intentionally ignoring" older hardware. I haven't been affected by it though.

I would like to hear your explanation on how Samsung supposedly paid off EverythingApplePro, the guy who cheated in a speed test to give Apple the win and has more iPhones than my nearby Apple Store.
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Happens all the time, you can read about it. I would like to hear your explanation of how apple paid of the benchmark programmers.

I posted my videos backing up my claim. Now the ball is in the court of the naysayers to do the same
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Your video didn't show anything out of the ordinary.

You don't even need an app. The basic settings menu opens at least twice as fast on iOS 7.
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Can you prove that statement? Twice as fast could be one millisecond vs two milliseconds. I don't want to play word games. Twice as fast has to be a substantial difference. We will be debating "substantial".
 
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I7guy said:
You agree google (and youtube are full of anecdotal claims? Great we agree, no need to go any further than.


Are you saying what's good for Android is good for Apple?


What? Apple is focused on profits? Meaning American fortune 10 companies don't have to drive their business to earn revenue and profits. Or are you referring to the old, tired meme. Profits first, customers second? Even by your standard, intentionally ignoring is not malicious. I don't have a problem with "intentionally ignoring" older hardware. I haven't been affected by it though.


Happens all the time, you can read about it. I would like to hear your explanation of how apple paid of the benchmark programmers.


Your video didn't show anything out of the ordinary.


Can you prove that statement? Twice as fast could be one millisecond vs two milliseconds. I don't want to play word games. Twice as fast has to be a substantial difference. We will be debating "substantial".
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iPod Touch 5G:
iOS 6: 0.85 seconds to open the notes app.
iOS 9: 2.7 seconds
Photos app: iOS 9: 2.3 seconds.
iOS 6: 1.2 seconds
Clock app: iOS 9: 2.31 seconds
iOS 6: 0.77 seconds.
This is with my own tests, averaging three launches per each app. On the photos app, I have 3.5K photos and 400 videos. The one on iOS 9 has 500 photos and 120 videos.
Heavier performance is another issue... Imagine if I wanted to play a relatively decent game (for example, Real Racing 3) I am using that flawlessly (on an older version, yes) on iOS 6. I doubt the iPod on iOS 9 is fast enough to play it acceptably well.
 
FeliApple said:
iPod Touch 5G:
iOS 6: 0.85 seconds to open the notes app.
iOS 9: 2.7 seconds
Photos app: iOS 9: 2.3 seconds.
iOS 6: 1.2 seconds
Clock app: iOS 9: 2.31 seconds
iOS 6: 0.77 seconds.
This is with my own tests, averaging three launches per each app.
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I already commented(somewhere) on the 32 bit vs 64 bit processors. 32 bit processor used in the 5g was release in 2012, a 6 year old device. The difference is much greater than the 64 bit processors on released in 2013. Not only that but app opening isn't the only criteria. Javascript performance and encoding are also two metrics that can be used to gauge what is in the realm of performance.

And, imo, there will be big differences no matter what the ios version in a processor from 2013 vs 2018.
 
I7guy said:
I already commented(somewhere) on the 32 bit vs 64 bit processors. 32 bit processor used in the 5g was release in 2012, a 6 year old device. The difference is much greater than the 64 bit processors on released in 2013. Not only that but app opening isn't the only criteria. Javascript performance and encoding are also two metrics that can be used to gauge what is in the realm of performance.

And, imo, there will be big differences no matter what the ios version in a processor from 2013 vs 2018.
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I have stated this hundreds of times: Safari is faster on iOS 9. Regardless of device speed. That I can accept.
Ok, app opening isn't key, agree. But third party app speed is crucial. My iPod on iOS 6 will be faster running whatever app you want that iOS 6 supports - or supported - compared to the same app on iOS 9. Plus, as I showed, the system itself is 2-3 times faster.
On the 64-bit: have you tried an iPhone 6-6+ on iOS 11? Same case.
 
FeliApple said:
I have stated this hundreds of times: Safari is faster on iOS 9. Regardless of device speed. That I can accept.
Ok, app opening isn't key, agree. But third party app speed is crucial. My iPod on iOS 6 will be faster running whatever app you want that iOS 6 supports - or supported - compared to the same app on iOS 9. Plus, as I showed, the system itself is 2-3 times faster.
On the 64-bit: have you tried an iPhone 6-6+ on iOS 11? Same case.
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My friend is using a 6+ in iOS 11.4.1. While I personally haven’t taken it for a test drive I asked if he finds the performance acceptable. He said yes for whatever that means to him. One anecdotal response.
 
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I7guy said:
My friend is using a 6+ in iOS 11.4.1. While I personally haven’t taken it for a test drive I asked if he finds the performance acceptable. He said yes for whatever that means to him. One anecdotal response.
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Ok. That's valid. As we have agreed earlier, acceptable is subjective. I personally can't understand Apple considering some performances acceptable, but that's a different thing.
I tried a 6+. The user told me that it was too slow. It was on iOS 11.3.1. I tried it, and for me, it was unbearable. Then again, keep in mind one thing: I am used to a 6s on iOS 9 and a 7+ on iOS 10. My expectations are possibly higher. But that's the entire point of this thread.
 
In WWDC, when Craig introduced how they peak CPU usage "instantly" peaks in iOS12, to give you better scrolling (faster performance), does that also mean it does not time slice between apps anymore and instead slows down all other running apps just to draw performance attention to the front-most only while its open?

Basically having the total reverse of how Apple previously did it.

Having better performance is always good, but it looks like it now no longer if across all running apps..

Only the front most app, get all the performance increase. So, its no longer balanced.. Compare that to IOS 11, where CPU was time slicing.
 
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