Not only that, but the idea that they have unlimited resources is plain wrong. Money is only one resource and employees are another. And they don’t have unlimited manpower.
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iOS 12 and planned obsolescence
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Not only that, but the idea that they have unlimited resources is plain wrong. Money is only one resource and employees are another. And they don’t have unlimited manpower.
Not trying to be pedantic, but the thread "seemingly" in some peoples minds(thought not all), have gone from a malicious conspiracy to defraud you of your money, to plain old obsolescence. I'm going to take it further and say some IOS updates may impact some users in a fashion they deem negative. There clearly isn't one size fits all with respect to the way apple customers view their phones.
Android OEMs entice some users to upgrade to a new phone by not updating beyond 2 years but the phone is still functional at full speed. Apple actively interferes wih the speed of the phone. I personally do not care for updates which slow down the phone. I realise some feel differently about this but in my opinion Apple, by not offering a downgrade option forces users to use a slower phone and slow phones induce upgrades. It doesn't help that when they secretly shipped a throttle on the phones in ios 10 they completely ignored the speed aspect of it. Apple gives little consideration to speed apart from a few updates like iOS 12 and speed is the main reason users upgrade. All smartphones are able to do all tasks nowadays so there is very little reason to upgrade apart from a few novelty features so it makes business sense to not optimise for older phones. As I said earlier people expect phones to slow down as they age so they play perfectly into Apple's hands.
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That is the definition of PLANNED obsolescence right there.
Then ios isn’t for you because Apple provides updates for 5 years. Whether you like it or not
I agree. This topic has been beaten to death and some people are just never going to be convinced. No one should be surprised though if the same thread pops up next year on iOS 13 because until there is a permanent fix Apple will continue to be blamed for their updates as they should be. The fact this question was asked to a top level Apple executive is pro0f,enough it's on top of people's minds.I have always complained about PO and especially how it rendered our ‘once fast’ Home button, slow and laggy on iOS 11. Have you forgotten my topic about Home Button last year where I had given proofs and even you had posted a video proof which was never refuted? We had solid proofs but still the topic was derailed by rabid fanboism and eventually deleted because neither side budged.
I can already see this topic is dwelling into same levels of mediocrity where similar arguments are going round and round. Apple going out of their way to address allegations of PO this year for iOS 12 is huge victory for us. I honestly think you should stop and get on with life (unless you are getting some twisted fun out of it)
Remember: You have already won. Go bask in your glory!
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But the device itself is fully functional. Not many are crazy about version numbers on Android when most of the system is updated through the play store anyway. Besides the support on Android is only going to go up in the future while it doesn't look like iOS is going to change at all. I expect Google will up the support to 4 years on the Pixel and keep increasing as years pass so Samsung and the others can only get away with it for so long.
I do agree with you that the current iOS update strategy isn't working for me. Till something changes on the Android side of things as far as watches and tablets go I am stuck here though.
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Addressing some of this. Apple does not actively interfere with the speed of the phones. It’s been proven by the same low bar of proof that seems to be all the rage to Quote. Apple did not secretly ship a throttle, there was advanced power management as part of the release notes. Apple has optimized various internals over the years, but I guess not to your satisfaction. If you believe there are only novelty upgrades why aren’t you still using windows xp and iOS 5 on an iPhone 4?
Forest from the trees?
This topic has been beaten to death with no one convincing any other. The only commonality in these discussions is this connect the dots to come up with a low bar of what constitutes a hypotheses that is claimed to be proof. But I get for you ios for you is the best of the worst. To me it’s the best of the best.
Yup still PLANNED obsolescence.
No software update = obsolescence
You don’t like the way Apple updates their platform relative to android, but your still using apples platform over android.
Hypocritical at best.
Maybe the fact that tablets and watches are so much better on apples platform over android is because of Apples way of updating its platforms versus google.
You like the idea of android but not it’s results.
That’s on you.
At best, Apple can be accused of using a different criteria for what is usable.
Planned obsolescence is using components that you know will fail within a short lifespan. I can argue that given the security landscape, Android manufacturers only updating for 2 years is planned obsolescence.
Planned obsolescence is using components that you know will fail within a short lifespan. I can argue that given the security landscape, Android manufacturers only updating for 2 years is planned obsolescence.
I never talked about any conspiracy. Not once. All I said is, I don't know if Apple is deliberately slowing devices with iOS updates (I.e, purposefully writing code to slow it down. That's not even my main hypothesis). As I said, my main hypothesis is that Apple doesn't do enough to optimize updates for older devices. And if updated far enough, the device will NOT work well, in every single case, when compared to the same device on an older version of iOS. That's all I've said. I never jumped from any malicious conspiracy to old obsolescence.
You will deny this as anecdotal, but I will say it anyway: yesterday, a friend had an iPhone 6 on iOS 11.3.1. He isn't tech-savvy at all. Talking about iPhones, he said, this phone is too slow, it doesn't work very well.
In every single case of complaint I see, there is a common denominator: It is always an older phone, updated to the latest version. Always. I saw another iPhone 6, this one on iOS 9. Really fast. Of course, the user has no complaints. I am seeing a common denominator. I check a lot of phones (yes, deny this as anecdotal, I have no proof, I have been over that. Perhaps someone should compare thousands of non-updated phones to their updated counterparts and check response times. That would be useful).
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I can't believe Apple deems - assuming what you're saying is right - some cases useful. (That iPhone 6 I mentioned on my reply to i7Guy, I wouldn't use it as my main device for more than 10 minutes, it's unbearable, in my opinion).
But yes, you might be right. Apple might think that people will understand that as it is older they have no "right" to an acceptable performance anymore. I disagree, but you do have a point.
Acceptable performance is a judgement call.
Apple is expected to release a new phone every year. it is also expected to release a new version of iOS every year. They will always leverage the new hardware in the feature set of the new software. At some point, performance of new software will be slower on older hardware. At some point, the underlying hardware has changed enough that older phones can't run the software at all.
This "obsolescence" is not planned as much as it just is. And we, the consumer, are partly to blame for it. We demand new, faster, hardware. we demand a shiny new OS with more features.
This time, Apple decided to focus less on adding new features and spend more time going through old code and optimizing it. It's a worthwhile endeavor. Time will tell how a less feature rich version of iOS will be received.
Apple is expected to release a new phone every year. it is also expected to release a new version of iOS every year. They will always leverage the new hardware in the feature set of the new software. At some point, performance of new software will be slower on older hardware. At some point, the underlying hardware has changed enough that older phones can't run the software at all.
This "obsolescence" is not planned as much as it just is. And we, the consumer, are partly to blame for it. We demand new, faster, hardware. we demand a shiny new OS with more features.
This time, Apple decided to focus less on adding new features and spend more time going through old code and optimizing it. It's a worthwhile endeavor. Time will tell how a less feature rich version of iOS will be received.
Agree on the judgement call, that's why I said that I, personally, can't understand how Apple deems some things acceptable. But of course, YMMV.
On your second point, I think that the first update matches performance of the original, the second is slightly worse, noticeably slower, but not unusable, and the third onwards cripple the device to the point where I don't want to use it anymore. That's my opinion. Again, YMMV.
Now, solutions: In my opinion: - Do this every year. Don't add as many features and focus on performance. Make every device work well. Leave features for later, and of course, include fewer features per update.
- Allow downgrading. Allow me to, if I'm not happy with updates, revert back to whatever version I want.
- Cut support on the second version. This would be the worst, Apple would be attacked from everywhere. It wouldn't affect me personally, but it isn't viable from a business standpoint.
Yeah I said the support one wasn't a viable solution at all. Apple wants no criticism at all? Back to solution 2. Allow downgrading and keep ruining devices with updates. At least users will have an option.
Although, I think people overall will appreciate their devices working better. I've only seen a few posts complaining about lack of features. IMO, it isn't valid at all. They probably complain about performance issues, too.
Apple has gotten plenty of criticism. Based on this criticism, some things they changed, some things they didn’t. Some things were warranted, some things were rubbish.
Every device has power management. What every device does not have is throttling.
I will summarise the convo so as to save time. Benchmarks can be manipulated like YT videos. So its on you who you want to believe. I will believe the third party over the company in question. Hence for me that classifies as proof. The fact that my personal devices have all been slowed down over the years only reinforces the proof.
I did say nowadays. There is really nothing an iPhone X can do that an iPhone 7 cant except perhaps Memojis. I am talking about the average Apple customer, not enthusiasts.
I am only here on iOS as long as the competition lacks a competent alltternative for my requirements. The moment they do I will jump ship. Even on computers I prefer buying products from AMD over NVIDIA and Intel but then they lack performance for my requirements so they are not an option currently.
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You cant please all the people all the time. Hence offer a choice by supporting multiple builds like Microsoft and Google do. The solution is really simple.
Okay. Most modern android devices will just roll over and die when the battery ages beyond a certain point. If that is better than power management than more power to you.
Since it seems everything can be manipulated i doubt third parties also. Basically the entire world is dishonest so don’t trust anybody. That my devices haven’t slowed down reinforces my anecdotal iron clad proof.
In reality you can do almost everything except animojis and Apple Pay on an iPhone X and iPhone 5s. And both devices can support the same iOS release. That’s a far cry from obsolescence.
But nobody is stopping you from jumping ship. Good luck with that.
My old Android devices and some of my old iPhones are proof that is untrue
That's for you to judge. I believe the people who aren't interested in my wallet. They also cant badmouth Apple too much otherwise they risk not being invited at Apple's events.
Except one is usable and the other is not. I have an iPhone X and an iPhone 6 and the features on the 6 might as well not be there because of the load times. I must say making me not want to use the phone is the best security in the world. The obsolescence in question is wrt speed and notfeatures
Anecdotal experiences constitutes "proof"?
The conspiracy theory says that anybody can lie and be paid off. This can be taken to the nth degree.
Both are usable. My 5s is eminently usable. Not as fast, sharp of snappy as an iphone x though. Usability is a personal line in the sand. The speed of new iphones with more modern chips makes older models seem slow by comparison.
It was an anecdotal response to an anecdotal claim unless of course you can find a company on Android who throttles phones as the batteries wear
Its a question of whether an accused is to be believed or a third party. I find third parties reliable especially when the Youtubers in question have a house full of Apple gear and host speed tests giving the iPhone an unfair advantage by disabling animations on iPhone but not on Android in speed tests.
I disagree. The 6 is not usable for me.Its nothing to with the speed of the newest phones. Any device which takes like 5 seconds or more to open apps like YouTube and Uber are going back the first week they ae purchased. Since the 6 is still with me this transition to a slow phone did not happen overnight
As I have said earlier, slower isn't subjective. That iOS updates slow down devices is undeniable. What is subjective, though, is the degree to which it affects you. Someone might not care, and it is ok. Even when the slowdowns are really noticeable, and when the device takes three times as long to do anything, someone might be fine with that. Many people are not, and in my opinion, Apple should offer a solution.
Your take on this is sound in some areas, but fatally wrong in others.
iOS 12 focuses on both optimization and new features. This, if Apple chose to do so, could be repeated on every iOS release. Barring a complete redesign to the OS, there's no reason why yearly iOS updates should handicap older devices the way iOS has historically done.
While Apple can't change the laws of physics (as Steve Jobs has been quoted to say), they can control how the products they sell react to the yearly software updates they release.
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Android phones just shut off. Not a particular desired response in my book, but you may want that.
Who you chose to “believe” is on you. If benchmarks developers cheat, and your youtubers cheat and third parties are paid off, there is no one left except the manufacturer.
I disagree with your disagreement. My 5s is very usable. Pretty snappy for a 2013 device.
Wouldn't your 5s be far more snappy, if, for example, it was on iOS 7?
Also, imho, age is irrelevant. My 2012 iPod Touch 5G is as fast as it was when new. Want to know why? It's on iOS 6.
My 2011 iPod Touch 4G is fast too. Why? It's on iOS 5.
Meanwhile, a 2011 iPod Touch 4G on iOS 6 is unusable. Same on an iPod Touch 5G on iOS 9.
Same age. One difference: the iOS version.
There were posters who were claiming their iPhone 5 on iOS 6 was faster than a 5s on iOS 7. Fast and snappy in 2013 is not the same fast and snappy in 2018.
Agree.
But for reference: Just tried overall native app speed launch on my iPod Touch 5G on iOS 6 versus an iPhone 7 plus on iOS 10. The 7 plus was faster, but not by much. (Anecdotal, I know, this is just to state a point).
Now, you can say: Yes, but if you try, for example, a heavy graphics game, the 7+ will launch it far faster. It probably will, but my point is that if I perform that same test with, say, an updated iPhone 6, which should be far more powerful (A5 vs A8, 512MB of RAM vs 1GB) than my iPod Touch, my iPod will blow the iPhone 6 out of the water. But, if I perform that same test with an iPhone 6 on iOS 8, I'm pretty confident to say that if the iPhone doesn't win, it will be very close. Device power isn't as decisive if we compare app launch speed. What matters is the iOS version. The more powerful a device is, the faster it will launch apps, if we compare them on initial iOS versions. If we alter the iOS version enough on the newer device, it will probably lose, against far weaker "opponents".