iPhone iOS 13 Beta 4 ― Bug Fixes, Changes, and Improvements

[Feenician]

If extensions like dark reader, or third party browser can do it, Apple can do it.

They sure could, if they wanted to spend the next year responding to complaints of broken websites. Even the people who advocate for these extensions admit they don't work well 100%. Not going to happen.

In any case, I don't care enough about this to continue this conversation. Feel free to set yourself up for disappointment.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

. . . There's nothing to debate, other than wishful thinking.

If we followed that rule to it’s logical conclusion, this forum wouldn’t exist.

 

[Feenician]

If we followed that rule to it’s logical conclusion, this forum wouldn’t exist.

Well, that's true Look, I honestly intend no offense to anyone with what I'm saying but I 100% believe it's a pipe dream. No matter how hard they try there'd be enough edge (and not so edge) cases that it'd screw up enough apps and websites to be a liability, rather than a virtue.

Nobody's eyes have fallen out in 25 years of black on white WWW, but if "dark mode" is truly something that enough people demand then app and web devs have elegant tools to provide it.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

They sure could, if they wanted to spend the next year responding to complaints of broken websites. Even the people who advocate for these extensions admit they don't work well 100%. Not going to happen.

If Apple continue this approach through to release, there will be far more complaints about the inconsistent mess it currently is than there ever would be if Apple took this truly system-wide.

We need to remember that this is a user selectable feature.

Those that have been looking forward to Dark Mode since iOS 7, like me, have always wanted it mandated across as many aspects of the UI as possible.

For those that aren’t bothered about it, the future will remain “bright” as the default of course is Dark Mode set to off.

 

[Feenician]

Those that have been looking forward to Dark Mode since iOS 7, like me, have always wanted it mandated across as many aspects of the UI as possible.

I get that you wanted it, and I'm not telling you're wrong to want it - I want a 700HP V8 with 0-60 in 2 seconds and 100mpg - I'm saying it's not realistic.

 

[SoYoung]

They sure could, if they wanted to spend the next year responding to complaints of broken websites. Even the people who advocate for these extensions admit they don't work well 100%. Not going to happen.

In any case, I don't care enough about this to continue this conversation. Feel free to set yourself up for disappointment.

I don't care that much either. I'll just continue to use the light mode with smart invert when needed like I always do. I just write my thoughts about the new feature so far but I respect. The only thing I hope they'll realy fix in time is actually smart invert in iOS 13 because right now its completely broken and buggy as hell.
[doublepost=1563691029][/doublepost]

I don't care that much either. I'll just continue to use the light mode with smart invert when needed like I always do. I just write my thoughts about the new feature so far but I respect everyone's thoughts. The only thing I hope they'll realy fix in time is actually smart invert in iOS 13 because right now its completely broken and buggy as hell.

 

[Feenician]

The only thing I hope they'll realy fix in time is actually smart invert in iOS 13 because right now its completely broken and buggy as hell.

You continue to demonstrate why the approach you advocate is not viable.

 

[SoYoung]

You continue to demonstrate why the approach you advocate is not viable.

smart invert works well in iOS 12. Its just iOS 13 that bring so many bugs, not only for smart invert.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

Well, that's true Look, I honestly intend no offense to anyone . . .

Nobody's eyes have fallen out in 25 years of black on white WWW, but if "dark mode" is truly something that enough people demand then app and web devs have elegant tools to provide it.

I hope not many on here are offended purely by a counter point of view. As long as it’s presented as reasonable debate.

That’s why most of us are here I reckon.

As for the eyes thing, I’ve seen other members quote studies on this subject and I couldn’t care one bit.

All I know is when I view black text on white my eyes become strained over time and when I change to a dark background, I can physically feel my eyes relax.

I get that you wanted it, and I'm not telling you're wrong to want it - I want a 700HP V8 with 0-60 in 2 seconds and 100mpg - I'm saying it's not realistic.

The example you quote is not realistic, I agree.

I’ve been a “petrol head” myself but I’m slowly being converted. Have you seen the upcoming Rivian pickup truck 0-60 in a crazy low time, fully off road capable and a 400 mile plus range.



System-wide Dark Mode is realistic though if Apple have the desire to make it happen (3rd party apps excepted)

 

[Feenician]

smart invert works well in iOS 12. Its just iOS 13 that bring so many bugs, not only for smart invert.

I see. So when you said

Still on this day, many apps still don't support smart invert colours so..

You meant some other version of iOS?

The approach doesn't scale. It cannot work. Smart invert is a best effort accessibility feature.

 

[SoYoung]

If Apple continue this approach through to release, there will be far more complaints about the inconsistent mess it currently is than there ever would be if Apple took this truly system-wide.

We need to remember that this is a user selectable feature.

Those that have been looking forward to Dark Mode since iOS 7, like me, have always wanted it mandated across as many aspects of the UI as possible.

For those that aren’t bothered about it, the future will remain “bright” as the default of course is Dark Mode set to off.

Don't try to convince him. Those against our point of view will never agreed. He can't admit even a forced dark keyboard would be the least minimum thing to add on a dark mode and he can't admit the past had proven many times that when you decide to let devs implement new APIs, the vast majority of them simply won't.

 

[Feenician]

System-wide Dark Mode is realistic though if Apple have the desire to make it happen (3rd party apps excepted)

We will have to agree to disagree. My point of view; Apple will never deliver a 100% automatic, universal dark mode and neither will anyone else.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

We will have to agree to disagree. My point of view; Apple will never deliver a 100% automatic, universal dark mode and neither will anyone else.

And that will disappoint a lot of people who were greatly looking forward to this optional feature.

 

[Feenician]

Those against our point of view will never agreed. He can't admit even a forced dark keyboard would be the least minimum thing to add on a dark mode

I never mentioned the keyboard at all and agree that an OS feature like that should 100% respect the user's choice. You made up a strawman position

he can't admit the past had proven many times that when you decide to let devs implement new APIs, the vast majority of them simply won't.

Again, I never addressed that at all. In fact I've lamented developers not implementing APIs, even years olds ones like "Open in" in Files many, many times on this board. Again, a strawman you're trying to build.

If you have to make up "my" position then I'd suggest not bothering.
[doublepost=1563691990][/doublepost]

And that will disappoint a lot of people who were greatly looking forward to this optional feature.

This, I do not doubt. I think I may have a rather more optimistic (perhaps unrealistically so, given my prior post on Files API support) viewpoint on how app and web devs will respond, and how users will respond to them over time.

 

[SoYoung]

I see. So when you said



You meant some other version of iOS?

The approach doesn't scale. It cannot work. Smart invert is a best effort accessibility feature.

Smart invert is just an exemple. For what I remember, when Apple announce it they said they'll give the APIs to let devs implement the feature easily. Youtube app support 100% from the start with their own dark theme not reverted when smart invert are enabled. But many other apps simply not apply this at all.

Did you actually tried smart invert? its actually looking like a real dark mode in some apps like the news and mail app. All I said is Apple could easily bring this technology to their new dark mode itself too look more like a true dark mode at least for their own apps and keyboard.
[doublepost=1563692539][/doublepost]

I never mentioned the keyboard at all and agree that an OS feature like that should 100% respect the user's choice. You made up a strawman position



Again, I never addressed that at all. In fact I've lamented developers not implementing APIs, even years olds ones like "Open in" in Files many, many times on this board. Again, a strawman you're trying to build.

If you have to make up "my" position then I'd suggest not bothering.
[doublepost=1563691990][/doublepost]

This, I do not doubt. I think I may have a rather more optimistic (perhaps unrealistically so, given my prior post on Files API support) viewpoint on how app and web devs will respond, and how users will respond to them over time.

English is not my primary language so excuse me if I sound rude or anything, its not intentional and yes, the files app api is another exemple when I said devs are not reliable when they need to apply new api to ios.

And yes, I understand its a beta but like the other user said, I think many people will be disappointed with this new dark mode this fall. It was not like I expected at all. I was satisfied with the mojave one because extensions are allowed and thats all I hope apple will bring someday to ios.

 

[itsmilo]

I have almost 8 GB of „other system data“. Anyone know what that is or how to get rid of it?

also how do I delete attached photos on iMessage on iOS 13 now? There is no longer a delete button from inside the conversation itself and iMessages from within the settings never ever and never ever had shown the correct amount of photos. It shows 4 photos in storage yet in iMessage itself one conversation alone has 20+ images

 

[adrianlondon]

I have almost 8 GB of „other system data“. Anyone know what that is or how to get rid of it?

also how do I delete attached photos on iMessage on iOS 13 now? There is no longer a delete button from inside the conversation itself and iMessages from within the settings never ever and never ever had shown the correct amount of photos. It shows 4 photos in storage yet in iMessage itself one conversation alone has 20+ images

1. Try using a cable and syncing your phone with your laptop (Finder for Catalina, iTunes for older). That tends to clear out loads of logs and stuff that accumulate whilst running betas.

2. Click the person's name/icon at the top once you're looking at their messages. Then info. You'll see all the media there and it can be deleted from there.

I had to do both those things as my 16GB iPhone doesn't last long running betas otherwise!

 

[TimFL1]

ITT: People with no idea how web development and brand identity works requesting forced dark modes for sites.

Not happening, get over it.

 

[GBstoic]

With this beta on my iPhone SE I am finding “lift to wake” is very sluggish. Seems more like “shake to wake”. Anybody else seeing this?

 

[itsmilo]

1. Try using a cable and syncing your phone with your laptop (Finder for Catalina, iTunes for older). That tends to clear out loads of logs and stuff that accumulate whilst running betas.

2. Click the person's name/icon at the top once you're looking at their messages. Then info. You'll see all the media there and it can be deleted from there.

I had to do both those things as my 16GB iPhone doesn't last long running betas otherwise!

regarding #2 there is no delete button anymore.

 

[Natya Sadella]

Weird.

 

[uniquexoxo]

These people getting all pressed over Dark mode.lol

 

[ram130]

Spot 3 bugs.

Screen recording icon randomly show even though I haven’t touched it.

Messages or texts sent with links randomly
fail right away.


When assigning a phone contact a picture from messages (say with a picture someone sent)..after selecting the contact. The picture appears upside down.

Minor annoyance

Text selection is buggy and I wish there was a easy way to do “select all” ..

 

[gwhizkids]

It in fact does not work better this way but rather fragments the entire iOS into a confusing mess.

What happens when older apps that people still use are not updated to support dark mode? It’s going to be jarring to see a dark keyboard and then not one. Over and over and over if the app developers choose not to support it. That’s better?

With the myriad ways people code websites, if Apple tried to cram down a forcing of dark mode, the results may be “dark” but probably also an unintelligible mess for many sites.

The way they are going about this is the correct way.

Edit: since posting this, I see that there’s been a lot of discussion on this.

I find it amusing that people are telling the several professional developers I’ve seen post about the undesirability of Apple forcing the issue that they are wrong.

 

[Alhagar]

Cannot watch live baseball on the MLB at bat app with the latest beta on both iPhone XS and IPP 11. Any others having this issue?