Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

scorpio vega

Suspended
May 3, 2023
1,687
2,113
Raleigh, NC
Is it just freaks from SFO and Portland, or do they want working blue collar types opinions too, end of the day there are more of us.

It always amuses me when certain people type you can literally just tell what kind of person they are simply by one sentence and choice of words

Since you are referencing blue collar, which usually are average joe types of individuals....more than likely they have ANDROID and not iphones. Just saying.

Those freaks as you refer to people with differing views than you from SF( and Portland definitely sound like people i want to party with though.
 

one more

macrumors 603
Aug 6, 2015
5,150
6,571
Earth
Less changes the later they get in the beta period so less chance of changes that could/would brick devices.

I'm sure Apple would want to avoid say a watchOS public beta release that bricks watches on install, that would require them to fix all those watches.

Again, it is clear to me that Apple want to avoid as many issues as possible when releasing their software, beta included. I just cannot see the logic behind a longer pause between a DB/PB for a beta that appears to be better than the previous one.

If there was indeed a serious bug with it, we would have learnt about it by now - here, on Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, etc.

So, the question remains, why wait with the PB release?
 

gwhizkids

macrumors G5
Jun 21, 2013
13,272
21,446
Again, it is clear to me that Apple want to avoid as many issues as possible when releasing their software, beta included. I just cannot see the logic behind a longer pause between a DB/PB for a beta that appears to be better than the previous one.

If there was indeed a serious bug with it, we would have learnt about it by now - here, on Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, etc.

So, the question remains, why wait with the PB release?

Early in the cycle, Apple wants to allow a lot of time between the release of the developer preview and the public beta to ensure that any critical bugs can show up in the developer preview and, if necessary, be resolved before they release the public beta. The software is much earlier in the development process at that time (of course), and the possibility of there being a bug that could disable phones or expose critical vulnerabilities is much higher.

With each succeeding beta, the likelihood of such bugs decreases as the software matures. With the reduced risk, Apple does not need as much time after the Developer Preview is released to evaluate the risk potential to the public. So they can release the public beta sooner—days instead of weeks. And as we approach the end of the process in late August or early September, the release interval will no longer be days but hours.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jpdunn13 and gank41

Cobold

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2014
815
1,174
Dieburg, Germany
Speculation…..There will be a mystery feature in iOS17.
We saw this in iOS 16 with the digital island
The DYNAMIC Island (not digital) however is more like a hardware feature of the 14 Pro series since older devices did not get it. So you can not really call it a hidden iOS 16 feature, more a hidden 14 Pro feature.

Something similar will be the "action button" this year if roumors are true. But again, that is a hardware based feature older devices are not going to get.
 
  • Like
Reactions: one more and 17fox

OhMyMy

Suspended
Oct 21, 2021
986
1,310
Again, it is clear to me that Apple want to avoid as many issues as possible when releasing their software, beta included. I just cannot see the logic behind a longer pause between a DB/PB for a beta that appears to be better than the previous one.

If there was indeed a serious bug with it, we would have learnt about it by now - here, on Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, etc.

So, the question remains, why wait with the PB release?
Simply look at it this way.

Later in the beta cycle means they’d spent hundreds of man hours just fixing bugs. The more time fixing bugs the more chances of catching severe bugs as that’s what they prioritize first. And towards the end of beta cycle the chance of a severe bug being missed are slim to none.
This is when they deem it safe to release the PB soon after and later the same time as they’re confident in their work.

It’s just like skiing. First you start with the baby slopes. Then as you practice and get more confident you’d wanna push it further to blue terrains and further. Capeesh?
 

one more

macrumors 603
Aug 6, 2015
5,150
6,571
Earth
Simply look at it this way.

Later in the beta cycle means they’d spent hundreds of man hours just fixing bugs. The more time fixing bugs the more chances of catching severe bugs as that’s what they prioritize first. And towards the end of beta cycle the chance of a severe bug being missed are slim to none.
This is when they deem it safe to release the PB soon after and later the same time as they’re confident in their work.

It’s just like skiing. First you start with the baby slopes. Then as you practice and get more confident you’d wanna push it further to blue terrains and further. Capeesh?

Capeesh, but since there were not reports of anything going bananas with iOS 17 DB4 over the last 36 hours, Apple could still be a darling and get that PB2 out to the rest of us. 😉
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,356
17,155
Silicon Valley, CA
Capeesh, but since there were not reports of anything going bananas with iOS 17 DB4 over the last 36 hours, Apple could still be a darling and get that PB2 out to the rest of us. 😉
This beta cycle was never just about iOS 17 DB4. The reported issues with MacOS DB4 compared to DB3 are enough to stall a PB seed if Apple sees enough feedback and automated reports. For example I‘ve seen Safari 17 unexpectedly quit. There is the boot issues after updating. External display black screen situations. Apple Music not working for some. Granted not everyone experiences these, but it’s unknown how many have serious issues.
 

one more

macrumors 603
Aug 6, 2015
5,150
6,571
Earth
This beta cycle was never just about iOS 17 DB4. The reported issues with MacOS DB4 compared to DB3 are enough to stall a PB seed if Apple sees enough feedback and automated reports. For example I‘ve seen Safari 17 unexpectedly quit. There is the boot issues after updating. External display black screen situations. Apple Music not working for some. Granted not everyone experiences these, but it’s unknown how many have serious issues.

I was not aware that macOS DB4 bugs were directly affecting iOS and iPad OS releases, but ok, will be waiting patiently then. 🖐️
 

gank41

macrumors 601
Mar 25, 2008
4,348
5,018
This beta cycle was never just about iOS 17 DB4. The reported issues with MacOS DB4 compared to DB3 are enough to stall a PB seed if Apple sees enough feedback and automated reports. For example I‘ve seen Safari 17 unexpectedly quit. There is the boot issues after updating. External display black screen situations. Apple Music not working for some. Granted not everyone experiences these, but it’s unknown how many have serious issues.
Not to mention some fixes already in place might only be for some device models and to others, which could also explain the "randomness" to which things impact one person over another.
 

Silverstring

macrumors 6502
Apr 30, 2005
447
654
Capeesh, but since there were not reports of anything going bananas with iOS 17 DB4 over the last 36 hours, Apple could still be a darling and get that PB2 out to the rest of us. 😉
I think it's simple to understand the straightforward reasoning that's most likely at play:
  1. Apple has a schedule set FAR in advance
  2. That schedule already has built-in gaps between the developer release and public beta release that err on the side of caution (bigger gap with the earlier betas, when things are more unstable, and smaller as we get closer to release, as the "risk" of running a beta naturally decreases)
  3. If something goes wrong with a developer release (like when we see things pulled, for example), Apple changes the pre-set schedule to account for the curveball
  4. If there are no major showstoppers, security holes, exploits, etc are present...they stick to the existing schedule, and the pre-set, existing gaps remain
All one needs to do to grasp this rationale is to let go of the idea that Apple is making "game-time" decisions about when to release what, based on real-time reports, like "oh, this one seems good, lets push the button". We joke about that in this thread, for good reason—it's not how it works.

From the outside it seems clear to me that they will move releases back if their hand is forced, but will not move a release up, regardless of feedback/reports.

Sucks for us chomping at the bit to be on the bleeding edge, of course, but totally makes sense from a risk/reward, prudent software management perspective. They're no incentive for Apple to move things up, just to satisfy us excited-to-use-the-beta users. The smart thing to do is minimize the amount of variables (like a feedback-dependent release schedule in any case other than an emergency).

When you have an install base of over 1 billion, you're going to be conservative about such things, especially early in the beta cycle.
 

gwhizkids

macrumors G5
Jun 21, 2013
13,272
21,446
I think it's simple to understand the straightforward reasoning that's most likely at play:
  1. Apple has a schedule set FAR in advance
  2. That schedule already has built-in gaps between the developer release and public beta release that err on the side of caution (bigger gap with the earlier betas, when things are more unstable, and smaller as we get closer to release, as the "risk" of running a beta naturally decreases)
  3. If something goes wrong with a developer release (like when we see things pulled, for example), Apple changes the pre-set schedule to account for the curveball
  4. If there are no major showstoppers, security holes, exploits, etc are present...they stick to the existing schedule, and the pre-set, existing gaps remain
All one needs to do to grasp this rationale is to let go of the idea that Apple is making "game-time" decisions about when to release what, based on real-time reports, like "oh, this one seems good, lets push the button". We joke about that in this thread, for good reason—it's not how it works.

From the outside it seems clear to me that they will move releases back if their hand is forced, but will not move a release up, regardless of feedback/reports.

Sucks for us chomping at the bit to be on the bleeding edge, of course, but totally makes sense from a risk/reward, prudent software management perspective. They're no incentive for Apple to move things up, just to satisfy us excited-to-use-the-beta users. The smart thing to do is minimize the amount of variables (like a feedback-dependent release schedule in any case other than an emergency).

When you have an install base of over 1 billion, you're going to be conservative about such things, especially early in the beta cycle.

Very very well put.
 

one more

macrumors 603
Aug 6, 2015
5,150
6,571
Earth
Very very well put.

Yes, I guess my mistake was to think that Apple would decide when to release the PB on the go, based on seeing “how it goes” with the DB, rather than keeping to their pre-set release schedule. However, last year at this stage in the beta cycle, the PB came out a day after the DB. What would make Apple more confident back then vs now, I wonder.
 

jpdunn13

macrumors regular
Sep 19, 2022
119
117
We can't assume that everyone running the dev beta or the public beta is on this forum, or any forum for that matter. Apple is collecting data from reports on the Feedback App and their own internal testing.
 

gwhizkids

macrumors G5
Jun 21, 2013
13,272
21,446
Yes, I guess my mistake was to think that Apple would decide when to release the PB on the go, based on seeing “how it goes” with the DB, rather than keeping to their pre-set release schedule. However, last year at this stage in the beta cycle, the PB came out a day after the DB. What would make Apple more confident back then vs now, I wonder.

Possibly having more resources devoted to iOS/ iPadOS development vs the VisionPro.

Or they had the extra time built into their schedule.
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,356
17,155
Silicon Valley, CA
Dang! I was wrong. iOS 17.0 Public Beta 4 next week it is. Something to look forward to. 🤗
I expect a different build now. For MacOS it might entail using a different Darwin Kernel. As the applications quitting on launch like Apple Music for several devs and myself seeing Safari quit abruptly once initially. People going back to DB3 find things working again.

Reference
  • iOS DB4 Darwin Kernel Version ― 23.0.0: Fri Jul 14 18:32:55 PDT 2023; root:xnu-10002.0.199.0.3~21
  • iOS DB3 Darwin Kernel Version ― 23.0.0: Wed Jun 28 21:02:22 PDT 2023; root:xnu-10002.0.168.502.1~2
  • MacOS DB4 Darwin Kernel Version 23.0.0: Tue Jul 18 20:35:19 PDT 2023; root:xnu-10002.0.199.505.1~3/RELEASE_ARM64_T8103 arm64
  • MacOS DB3 Darwin Kernel Version 23.0.0: Fri Jun 30 17:48:23 PDT 2023; root:xnu-10002.0.168.505.3~1/RELEASE_ARM64_T8103 arm64
 

gank41

macrumors 601
Mar 25, 2008
4,348
5,018
I expect a different build now. For MacOS it might entail using a different Darwin Kernel. As the applications quitting on launch like Apple Music for several devs and myself seeing Safari quit abruptly once initially. People going back to DB3 find things working again.

Reference
  • iOS DB4 Darwin Kernel Version ― 23.0.0: Fri Jul 14 18:32:55 PDT 2023; root:xnu-10002.0.199.0.3~21
  • iOS DB3 Darwin Kernel Version ― 23.0.0: Wed Jun 28 21:02:22 PDT 2023; root:xnu-10002.0.168.502.1~2
  • MacOS DB4 Darwin Kernel Version 23.0.0: Tue Jul 18 20:35:19 PDT 2023; root:xnu-10002.0.199.505.1~3/RELEASE_ARM64_T8103 arm64
  • MacOS DB3 Darwin Kernel Version 23.0.0: Fri Jun 30 17:48:23 PDT 2023; root:xnu-10002.0.168.505.3~1/RELEASE_ARM64_T8103 arm64
Are these on Intel Macs? Beta 4 has been running SO much better than beta 3 on my M1 MBP. Night & Day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcvaughan

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,356
17,155
Silicon Valley, CA
Are these on Intel Macs? Beta 4 has been running SO much better than beta 3 on my M1 MBP. Night & Day.
  • M1 Max 14" MBP, can't get the install to finish.
  • Completely borked by M1 Mini - black screen after install and multiple reboot attempts. Re-installed beta (3) in recovery mode. Trying again with beta 4. DisplayPort to Thunderbolt dock using 32 inch Dell monitor
  • I had the same symptoms on an Intel Mac Mini (2018 I think)
  • My MacBook Pro A2251 (2020 Touchbar) got bricked after updating to beta 4
  • I have an M1 MBA that I'm testing on. Beta 2 left me with a blank screen with just the mouse pointer no matter what I did. Wiped it, got it set back up when Beta 3 came out and that was working fine. Beta 4 has me back to just a black screen with a mouse pointer.
  • Weird, does not work for me. Updating through Settings work, and then it restarts, and the installer appears to be initiating, but then it restarts and I get a message saying my Mac had shut down unexpectedly. Moving forward from that shows the update still available in Settings.
  • Got the exact same, every time it starts installing before rebooting and saying it shut down unexpectedly!
  • Judging how this is not working on an M1 for multiple users (including me), at least mine isn’t that bad but I would hold off.
  • The first 3 betas installed fine for me on my M1 MBP but this one didn't go so well. I was left with a black screen and a black keyboard.
  • worse than that. Mine occasionally became blank, no way to recover except to restart Mac.
 

Ansath

Cancelled
Jun 9, 2018
4,791
5,249
DB 4 tomorrow or Wednesday. PB next week is my guess. I don’t think PB was following day until we went weekly, and I’m going with weekly after DB5 comes out.

It’s looking likely I was right for both, instead of just the first part!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pearsey
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.