iOS: Annually slowing down our devices

[C DM]

I don't understand how you can justify this? These iPhones and iPads have so much power and they are dropping frame during simple animations. That is a bug that needs to be fixed.

How is anything being justified there? The commentary is about this not being anything even close to a major or horrible issue, not about it not being an issue at all.

 

[makhonkit]

I really don't know where to post this but I really need help.

Dear Mac Experts,



I've been having issues updating my cousin's old iPad 2 WiFi (MC979ZP) from 4.3.5 to 9.0.2. I keep having Error 9 whether I use DFU or any other method. Apart from that, Apple has also stopped signing all versions of Firmware prior to 9.0.2, therefore any older firmware is unusable (Error 3194 without fix even using System32). I was also trying firmware 8.4.1 and older firmware.



By the way, I've tried many different original cables and many different computers, both Mac and Windows, including the garbage bin.



According to Apple's HQ, this could be an "Untested Issue with latest iTunes and iOS9 having a negative effect on very old versions of iOS being upgraded to iOS9".



I'm writing here to seek help from you, if there is any other solution to this issue, and also to hopefully notify Apple's Support on this issue and hope they will fix it on their next version of iTunes.



Warmest Regards,

Ray Mak (YouTube)

 

[C DM]

I really don't know where to post this but I really need help.

Dear Mac Experts,



I've been having issues updating my cousin's old iPad 2 WiFi (MC979ZP) from 4.3.5 to 9.0.2. I keep having Error 9 whether I use DFU or any other method. Apart from that, Apple has also stopped signing all versions of Firmware prior to 9.0.2, therefore any older firmware is unusable (Error 3194 without fix even using System32). I was also trying firmware 8.4.1 and older firmware.



By the way, I've tried many different original cables and many different computers, both Mac and Windows, including the garbage bin.



According to Apple's HQ, this could be an "Untested Issue with latest iTunes and iOS9 having a negative effect on very old versions of iOS being upgraded to iOS9".



I'm writing here to seek help from you, if there is any other solution to this issue, and also to hopefully notify Apple's Support on this issue and hope they will fix it on their next version of iTunes.



Warmest Regards,

Ray Mak (YouTube)

Perhaps stating a separate thread that focuses on that issue might be better?

 

[philipyoungg]

They shouldn't be there. At the same time they aren't nearly at the level of issues that other people experience that really impact how their devices actually work and what they do (vs essentially just what the look like), and certainly not nearly something that make iOS 9 a horrific unusable mess that makes devices obsolete (as the unnecessary hyperbole has been getting laid down from quite a few).

Thank you.

Another question. Do you think this issue took a hit on user experience? On scale of 0 to 10, how prevalent is this issue?

 

[dk001]

Doesn't critically=unusable. I agree the 6+ is the poster child of what Apple could have done better, but I played around me with some 6+ and far from unusable they were.

Not always.
9.0 borked our company VPN. Critical.
The device was still usable excluding the ability to receive company stuff.
I could still call, text, email, etc....

 

[Armen]

I think Steve looks perfect in every picture.

Healthy Steve:

Sick Steve:

 

[C DM]

Thank you.

Another question. Do you think this issue took a hit on user experience?

It can affect someone more than many others. There's an effect on user expeeince, it's the degree that plays a good amount of role, which is small enough for many people, and while it could be larger for some it's still a ways off from being anything horrific or unusable, just annoying perhaps to a few.

 

[philipyoungg]

It can affect someone more than many others. There's an effect on user expeeince, it's the degree that plays a good amount of role, which is small enough for many people, and while it could be larger for some it's still a ways off from being anything horrific or unusable, just annoying perhaps to a few.

Rephrase:
The issue affect user experience but it's not horrific and unuseable to majority—perhaps annoys few.

I guess our definition of "user experience" differs a lot, then.

----------------------—--

By the way, thank you for the civil conversation. Apperciate it.

 

[I7guy]

Not always.
9.0 borked our company VPN. Critical.
The device was still usable excluding the ability to receive company stuff.
I could still call, text, email, etc....

Been using a Vpn on 9.0.2. Was it 9.0.2 that borked the Vpn or a per-app that is using the Vpn.

 

[C DM]

Rephrase:
The issue affect user experience but it's not horrific and unuseable to majority—perhaps annoys few.

I guess our definition of "user experience" differs a lot, then.

----------------------—--

By the way, thank you for the civil conversation. Apperciate it.

User experience is quite a bit more than just how things look or feel, which is certainly an aspect of it, but just one. And even focusing on that aspect, a few dropped frames here and there still isn't something that would be classified as horrific or unusable--otherwise if we go with that kind scale, what would actual more severe issues (of true several second delays in response or truly jerky animations across the board that anyone can see) what could those be called when a few framedrops already makes something horrible and unusable?

 

[dk001]

Been using a Vpn on 9.0.2. Was it 9.0.2 that borked the Vpn or a per-app that is using the Vpn.

Could be - I don't have the details for the issue on mine. I know it killed our company data connection that feeds several apps, email, calendar, etc....

I know that ours was dead with 9.0.0 and a fix was implemented post 9.0.2

 

[philipyoungg]

User experience is quite a bit more than just how things look or feel, which is certainly an aspect of it, but just one. And even focusing on that aspect, a few dropped frames here and there still isn't something that would be classified as horrific or unusable--otherwise if we go with that kind scale, what would actual more severe issues (of true several second delays in response or truly jerky animations across the board that anyone can see) what could those be called when a few framedrops already makes something horrible and unusable?

I'm a designer—so I understand user experience, perhaps in a bit more depth compared to general population.

What really question me right now is: if you are right that "majority" of people didn't look this issue as something "major"—why should I invest my time to design and develop my product with performance in mind? FYI, Google spent billion of dollars to make it's own search engine "only" for 50ms faster.

This whole notion doesn't make any sense.

 

[dk001]

I'm a designer—so I understand user experience, perhaps in a bit more depth compared to general population.

What really question me right now is: if you are right that "majority" of people didn't look this issue as something "major"—why should I invest my time to design and develop my product with performance in mind? FYI, Google spent billion of dollars to make it's own search engine "only" for 50ms faster.

This whole notion doesn't make any sense.

Perception vs. Acceptance
If I own a basic Ford motor car my expectation is different than if I own a BMW.
For my iPhone, I see it as a BMW level device and things like stutter. frame rate drop, general lag detract from the user experience.
What I see from my children and in some part from my peers is a shift from perceiving the iPhone as a BMW to more of a Ford level. The expectation is lowered and the general perception is lower.
This iDevice has moved from an "it just works" level to something we expect to see issues.

For me, something I had hoped for but never ever expected to see, my iPhone 6S+ has an inferior performance when compared to my Samsung Note 5 on Android. I am talking perceptive performance; lag, stutter, frame rate, smoothness, etc...

 

[C DM]

I'm a designer—so I understand user experience, perhaps in a bit more depth compared to general population.

What really question me right now is: if you are right that "majority" of people didn't look this issue as something "major"—why should I invest my time to design and develop my product with performance in mind? FYI, Google spent billion of dollars to make it's own search engine "only" for 50ms faster.

This whole notion doesn't make any sense.

Because you want to improve things? But that doesn't mean that what you are improving is therefore horrible and unusable just because you work on improving it. Even good things can be improved and often have time spent on them to improve them.

 

[philipyoungg]

Perception vs. Acceptance
If I own a basic Ford motor car my expectation is different than if I own a BMW.
For my iPhone, I see it as a BMW level device and things like stutter. frame rate drop, general lag detract from the user experience.
What I see from my children and in some part from my peers is a shift from perceiving the iPhone as a BMW to more of a Ford level. The expectation is lowered and the general perception is lower.
This iDevice has moved from an "it just works" level to something we expect to see issues.

For me, something I had hoped for but never ever expected to see, my iPhone 6S+ has an inferior performance when compared to my Samsung Note 5 on Android. I am talking perceptive performance; lag, stutter, frame rate, smoothness, etc...

Beautiful post man. You should create a whole blog for this.

Clearly, the brand promise—"It just works" doesn't apply anymore here. I also have lots of issue other than stutters (Airdrop occasionally working, Reminders didn't show up, etc) which is sad—because I moved from Windows and Android to Apple for: "It just works". While Apple still generally better compared to Windows for user experience, I don't think it won't take long for Windows & Android to catch up.

Bad timing moving to Apple. Should've done it 5 years ago.

 

[C DM]

Perception vs. Acceptance
If I own a basic Ford motor car my expectation is different than if I own a BMW.
For my iPhone, I see it as a BMW level device and things like stutter. frame rate drop, general lag detract from the user experience.
What I see from my children and in some part from my peers is a shift from perceiving the iPhone as a BMW to more of a Ford level. The expectation is lowered and the general perception is lower.
This iDevice has moved from an "it just works" level to something we expect to see issues.

For me, something I had hoped for but never ever expected to see, my iPhone 6S+ has an inferior performance when compared to my Samsung Note 5 on Android. I am talking perceptive performance; lag, stutter, frame rate, smoothness, etc...

Even BMWs are not perfect and have their share of issues and what people want to improve in them or which they had or did (plenty of BMW forums will tell you that). There's no perfection out there.

We should want something better but we should still have realistic expectations when it comes to X.0 releases. There will be issues, and what they are and the degree to which they affect things plays a role. They should be fixed and in most cases many of them do. But just because some of them are there--the types of what is being discussed here--doesn't make something horrible and unusable.

Plenty of people drive BMWs with minor quirks and things they wish would be better or are missing, and they still enjoy them and BMW is still considered to be a great luxury care nonetheless. It would be great if everything was always great, but reality doesn't work like that.

 

[C DM]

Beautiful post man. You should create a whole blog for this.

Clearly, the brand promise—"It just works" doesn't apply anymore here. I also have lots of issue other than stutters (Airdrop occasionally working, Reminders didn't show up, etc) which is sad—because I moved from Windows and Android to Apple for: "It just works". While Apple still generally better compared to Windows for user experience, I don't think it won't take long for Windows & Android to catch up.

Bad timing moving to Apple. Should've done it 5 years ago.

"It just works" isn't even about what it's being made out to be.

 

[Radon87000]

LOL, its not even 60 fps yet and I still see the MAJOR frame drops in the app switcher.
EDIT: now that its 60 fps it looks so bad. Whoever doesn't see the frame drops has to be trolling at this point.

*clutches my Air 2 with tears*

They shouldn't be there. At the same time they aren't nearly at the level of issues that other people experience that really impact how their devices actually work and what they do (vs essentially just what the look like), and certainly not nearly something that make iOS 9 a horrific unusable mess that makes devices obsolete (as the unnecessary hyperbole has been coming across from quite a few).

How is anything being justified there? The commentary is about this not being anything even close to a major or horrible issue, not about it not being an issue at all.

You guys need to wake up to reality.That iPad Air performance will never be fixed simply because I have a Air 2 and although it does lag its nowhere near what that video shows and I have a **** ton more apps installed.The lag in that video is VERY VERY similar to the iPad Mini 1 I have.The A8X (which was described as a monster and supposed to be future proof) brute forces its way through it albeit STILL faltering at stages rendering an OS and I am sure the Pro will be nearly stutter free consequently.The OS isnt a performance release.Not by a long shot

 

[Radon87000]

the reason that this has gone on for so long is people are seeing different things based on device and usage. There is no blanket statement covering every device, every use case. On my devices I am happy with iOS 9; maybe iPad Air users are seeing different things. The one video posted of the control center is frankly a fail in showing the ills of iOS 9; at least as viewed from my 6s.

the device is showing a lot of stutter as it pops into view.I am sure you will spot it if I make a 60 fps video like that guy

 

[sanke1]

I really don't know where to post this but I really need help.

Dear Mac Experts,



I've been having issues updating my cousin's old iPad 2 WiFi (MC979ZP) from 4.3.5 to 9.0.2. I keep having Error 9 whether I use DFU or any other method. Apart from that, Apple has also stopped signing all versions of Firmware prior to 9.0.2, therefore any older firmware is unusable (Error 3194 without fix even using System32). I was also trying firmware 8.4.1 and older firmware.



By the way, I've tried many different original cables and many different computers, both Mac and Windows, including the garbage bin.



According to Apple's HQ, this could be an "Untested Issue with latest iTunes and iOS9 having a negative effect on very old versions of iOS being upgraded to iOS9".



I'm writing here to seek help from you, if there is any other solution to this issue, and also to hopefully notify Apple's Support on this issue and hope they will fix it on their next version of iTunes.



Warmest Regards,

Ray Mak (YouTube)

Can you do a full software reset of your iPad 2 first? Then try updating firmware by letting iTunes downloading the correct firmware by itself. If even that fails, try using a different PC or an iMac.

 

[C DM]

*clutches my Air 2 with tears*





You guys need to wake up to reality.That iPad Air performance will never be fixed simply because I have a Air 2 and although it does lag its nowhere near what that video shows and I have a **** ton more apps installed.The lag in that video is VERY VERY similar to the iPad Mini 1 I have.The A8X (which was described as a monster and supposed to be future proof) brute forces its way through it albeit STILL faltering at stages rendering an OS and I am sure the Pro will be nearly stutter free consequently.The OS isnt a performance release.Not by a long shot

The same reality that doesn't make it horrific or unusable as a number of people have often been implying.

 

[RebornProphet]

I've recorded a 60fps video of the Air 2 on 9.1 beta 5 and it's VERY smooth. I'll post the link soon.

 

[_Refurbished_]

Again, all good theories, in practice that has been shown not to be the case. Plenty of people with same devices and same iOS versions have all kinds of different issues that others don't have. It's just basic given reality that there's really no arguing with.

You're right, it isn't an argument, what you're saying is simply not true. All iPhone's start out with the same performance, period. We're not talking about issues, we're talking about performance. Issues with a device would call for a defect.

Edit: Again, I prefer to offer additional evidence to backup my claims:
http://forums.imore.com/iphone-6/304995-post-your-geekbench-scores-2.html

The iPhone 6 scores all average about 2900, give or take 30 points. Are you really going to tell me that there will be a perceptual performance difference between devices directly out of the retail box? That's simply not true.

 

[C DM]

You're right, it isn't an argument, what you're saying is simply not true. All iPhone's start out with the same performance, period. Unless there's a defect.

Like I said, reality simply disagrees with that given many reports of people with the same devices and same iOS versions having different problems that others don't have.

 

[Radon87000]

Perception vs. Acceptance
If I own a basic Ford motor car my expectation is different than if I own a BMW.
For my iPhone, I see it as a BMW level device and things like stutter. frame rate drop, general lag detract from the user experience.
What I see from my children and in some part from my peers is a shift from perceiving the iPhone as a BMW to more of a Ford level. The expectation is lowered and the general perception is lower.
This iDevice has moved from an "it just works" level to something we expect to see issues.

For me, something I had hoped for but never ever expected to see, my iPhone 6S+ has an inferior performance when compared to my Samsung Note 5 on Android. I am talking perceptive performance; lag, stutter, frame rate, smoothness, etc...

Agreed.My 250 bucks Nexus 7 has better performance overall th-n the first gen Air and in fact as regards pulling down the notification centre is concerned it's rendering animations smoother than my iPhone 6