Agreed. Not to mention that Pencil offers precision to a single pixel. Granted, that's not a cursor, but this is a touch-first operating system.
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iPad as a laptop replacement
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This topic continues to be brought up and I don’t think the argument isn’t whether macOS can be virtualized on the iPad… because we know it’s possible.
But why would Apple do this? No one has given me answer to this… because I know your reasoning behind it to carry one device. But how does that benefit Apple? That’s what I’m trying to understand.
Even the logic of carrying one device doesn’t hold much water. It’s not like the choice is iPad or iMac - there are MacBooks of varying size and power and, as all these “iPad needs MacOS” folks keep telling us, they’re good enough to be carried as one device.
Custsat is Tim’s primary metric. He has said "Financial returns are simply the result of Apple's innovation, putting our products and customers first, and always staying true to our values."
Pretty much every single iPad review basically says “awesome hardware, lots of holes in the software”.
Were Tim to ask me, I’d give my iPad a score of 55%.
Apple will see the benefit if the next round of Microsoft Surface devices are compelling and users start switching en masse.
However, I have never said that Apple will, or even should, offer macOS virtualized. What I have said is that it would very clearly benefit ME, and that is what I care about most. Make sense?
So I’m carrying my 14” MacBook Pro as my only device because I need macOS for something every now and then.
What do I do when I want to read a book one-handed? Mark up a pdf with Apple Pencil? Play an AR game? Make a 3D model of a room? Play an iPad-only game? Do general computing in a cramped space where an open laptop cannot be used comfortably?
There are so many tasks that are only possible on one device or the other. However, macOS virtualized on an iPad would cover 90% of the use cases where I would need macOS away from home.
You’ve really just specified very specific use cases, which don’t justify a wholesale change of operating system.
The better question is what can’t your iPad do that you need from it, on such a regular basis that the Macs are so indispensable?
I certainly have not advocated for replacing iPadOS, and I cannot recall seeing anyone else doing so either. Some have suggested dual-boot, most would be happy with virtualization or docker-style running of individual apps.
You can scroll through my recent post history and quickly find quite a few.
So, you are literally flipping it back around to the customer (users).... not Apple. If customer satisfaction dependent upon macOS virtualized on the iPad.... you don't think Apple would have done this already?
But isn't that the same... why else would you bring it up? If it's something that benefits YOU..., wouldn't you want Apple to make it possible?
It seems illogical to desire a feature from a company yet insist that the company should not do what you desire.
Well let me assure you that they certainly have.
Ok so then we are back where I started: there is no consensus on what people want, and there is fragmentation among the minority group of people who want some form of MacOS on the iPad.
This is all just nonsense wish list stuff at the end of the day, because there is no unity whatsoever. There are no sensibly thought out plans for what’s needed and why.
Dual boot means we have two OSs on there - do you honestly think that’s what a mass consumer device needs? And don’t get me started on the suggestion I’ve seen that it’s ipadOS until it’s docked and then hey presto, it’s MacOS. As if people have forgotten there are lots of iPad users who have never used MacOS and won’t have a clue what they’re looking at.
When I was a kid I’d sit looking through the Argos catalogue writing out a very long list of everything I wanted, which I sent to Santa. This thread feels reminiscent of the expectations of young, naive me.
There are lots of people unhappy with iPadOS and I understand that. What I don’t understand is any expectation that each of those people will be satisfied by Apple in an upcoming update when they all want different and even sometimes contradictory things.
And then there’s the obvious question: what about people who love ipadOS as it is, and just want continued improvements? Look at the posts from @bondr006 about how iPad fits into his daily life. Why do the “WE WANT MACOS!” folks never consider the people who appreciate the iPad for what it is?
And I still haven’t heard a very good reason for the demands. “I might want to read a book one-handed.” Big wow. Buy a book! Or a kindle! Or hold a MBA in the palm of your hand. But don’t demand a wholesale device change just to suit your preferences.
Had a look, didn’t see anything particularly compelling but I do agree with you about the capabilities and functions of certain apps. For example, Apple Mail on the Mac lets you sort messages by sender, and it doesn’t on the iPad. This is inexplicable.
So what?
Even if Apple allowed dual-boot, virtualization and containerization and everyone got what suits their particular needs, anyone who just wants to use iPadOS as it works now wouldn’t even need to know the option exists.
The introduction of Boot Camp didn’t impact macOS users at all.
YOU want a boot camp equivalent and yes, I agree that won’t cause issues to people who want ipadOS.
But you are asking for something that lots of people don’t want - and I don’t mean people happy with ipadOS. There are vocal voices who want IpadOS replaced by MacOS. There are people who want MacOS to launch if it’s docked.
So the “so what?” question, as I’ve been saying from the outset, is that Apple can’t please everyone who finds iPad limited because not even the critics can agree on what they want.
And let’s suppose macOS comes to iPad in some form. Should it be exactly as it is today, so cursor-first? Or should it be redeveloped as a touch-first interface? The former will require the iPad to be used exactly like a laptop so that’s problematic. And whichever one happens, you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be ardent critics who wanted the other version.
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I am one of the one's that would like the ability to boot Mac OS when my iPP is docked to a monitor, keyboard, and trackpad. I have never advocated to get rid of iPad OS either, as I love it, but for the price of a laptop, and the hardware to go with it, iPad Pro should be able to run MacOS while used as a desktop, or at least be able to run it virtually. In tablet mode, yes...keep iPad OS. And for the iPad OS purists who want it in desktop also, make switching OS's something like Stage Manager that can be toggled. Easy peezy, lemon squeezy!
I haven’t seen any such discourse. Where is it?
If you ask me, I’d say virtualization and no change. Remote desktop apps on iPad have demonstrated how it would work, and I expect most would be pretty happy with that.
If everyone needs to get exactly what they want for any change to happen nothing would ever change.
There is a 15” MacBook Air now, and I am glad for those that wanted exactly that, although personally I would very much have preferred introduction of an 11”.
Personally, I could not care less about Stage Manager, but it’s cool for those that like it. Instead, I appreciate that I got MFA code support in Keychain Manager, even though I didn’t get all the features I wanted.
I really, really want cellular in my Mac, but I would be fine with introduction of Face ID even though it isn’t a priority for me.
Win some, lose some, be happy for those that got lucky. 🧘
I don’t see Apple ever introducing this level of system fragmentation. They’re going in the direction of ever-closer unity between the two, and while I agree it’s slower than it could be, and some apps are hamstrung that shouldn’t be, it overall seems a sensible approach to me.I am one of the one's that would like the ability to boot Mac OS when my iPP is docked to a monitor, keyboard, and trackpad. I have never advocated to get rid of iPad OS either, as I love it, but for the price of a laptop, and the hardware to go with it, iPad Pro should be able to run MacOS while used as a desktop, or at least be able to run it virtually. In tablet mode, yes...keep iPad OS. And for the iPad OS purists who want it in desktop also, make switching OS's something like Stage Manager that can be toggled. Easy peezy, lemon squeezy!
Earlier in this thread, I believe
I can agree with this.
True, and they don’t need to all get what they want. My point was that Apple is hearing a lot about how the OS is too limited, but no clear consensus on what it needs to be instead.
Fragmentation? You mean like 5 or 6 iPad models? You mean like calling two models pro, one model mini, two models air, and then the rest? How would it be fragmentation to introduce MacOS in some way, while leaving iPad OS for those who want it only? So, you are saying Macs are fragmented also, by being able to run more than one OS? iPad Pro is as much a very expensive computer that should have that ability....among others! Giving it the ability to run MacOS would in no way detract from iPad OS for those who want to use it only.
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I’m right there with you on the product lineup, but I don’t think Apple would do it with operating systems - especially if this is, presumably, only for Pros. Has Apple ever had a product line that had different operating systems?
I’d say the difference with what you’re describing with Macs is they *have the option to run other systems if the user wants them to and installs the software themselves*, which is about user control. That’s different to the iPad being one thing when a tablet and something else when docked.
Now, if we’re talking about the iPad having the reins loosened so users can voluntarily install dual boot software (for example), then I agree that would be very welcome.
iPod Classic and iPod Touch had different operating systems, and the Mac server models ran AIX, although the hardware was practically the same as other Macs, and of course MacOS 9 could be run natively on some Macs at the same time as others required Mac OS X. (But of course MacOS 9 could still be run virtualized on top of Mac OS X for quite some time, for those pesky legacy apps and workflows. Imagine that.)
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Just about anyone would agree to this. But that would essentially eliminate the need for the consumer to buy a Mac, that's the point I'm trying to get across.
We as users would benefit for such a move.... but what about Apple? I know we all want more from iPadOS, I surely do... It's not perfect where it stands now. But I know that there will be improvements going forward... because the development has not halted, but I don't envision Apple agreeing to allow dual boot OS to exist on the iPad.
If that's the case, I want the ability to use ChromeOS instead of DeX when I use Android docked to a monitor. But then Google will lose out on Chromebook sales. Or what about Microsoft letting us dual boot into Windows 10/11 when we want to use Office (to get real work done as they say) on a Series X.
iPad as a laptop replacement
Custsat is Tim’s primary metric. He has said "Financial returns are simply the result of Apple's innovation, putting our products and customers first, and always staying true to our values." Pretty much every single iPad review basically says “awesome hardware, lots of holes in the software”...
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(Besides, the kind of people that would run macOS on an iPad are probably the same people who would replace a MacBook Pro and an older good-enough iPad with a maxed-out iPad Pro and a maxed-out Mac Studio. I would, and if there was a smaller MacBook I’d get that too.)
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Again, you are looking at it from the perspective of the user.iPad as a laptop replacement
Custsat is Tim’s primary metric. He has said "Financial returns are simply the result of Apple's innovation, putting our products and customers first, and always staying true to our values." Pretty much every single iPad review basically says “awesome hardware, lots of holes in the software”...
(Besides, the kind of people that would run macOS on an iPad are probably the same people who would replace a MacBook Pro and an older good-enough iPad with a maxed-out iPad Pro and a maxed-out Mac Studio. I would, and if there was a smaller MacBook I’d get that too.)
But Apple is a for-profit corporation, they are in the business of selling hardware... both devices (iPad and Mac) are the leaders in their own category and sell successfully. You keep ignoring this... I'd rather discuss ways in which iPadOS can improve as a laptop replacement. What features that are missing and how Apple can implement it onto iPadOS without disrupting the core iPad experience.
Instead of continuing doing this "macOS onto an iPad" dance... because it's a pipedream.
I agree with this also. I like iPad OS, I really do, but for more people who want to use the iPad for their laptop...it does need more features found in MacOS/Windows for many people. I can use as is for my work, but unfortunately, many who would like to....just can't. If they could give iPad OS the features of a full desktop OS, I'd be just as happy as if they let the iPad run MacOS. I just so love my experience with running my business using my iPad Pro as a laptop replacement, that I'd really love others to be able to share my experience.
For the money it costs, I don't really think it's too much to ask. Besides, we can wish and hope all we want. Doesn't mean Apple will listen. But it is our right to hope, wish, and express all we want without having to be on the defensive about it. After all, we are the one's who spent the money for a device that cost's as much as a laptop...or even more.
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