iPad as a laptop replacement

[Ludatyk]

For the money it costs, I don't really think it's too much to ask. Besides, we can wish and hope all we want. Doesn't mean Apple will listen. But it is our right to hope, wish, and express all we want without having to be on the defensive about it. After all, we are the one's who spent the money for a device that cost's as much as a laptop...or even more.

But the cost associated with the iPad Pro is primarily with the hardware, Apple does add some software perks... but fundamentally you are buying into the hardware more than anything. Because we can easily buy a base iPad (Apple sells this with a keyboard) but miss out on the hardware gains that come with buying an iPad Pro (better display technology, faster data transfer speeds, LiDAR scanner and now improved accessories).

And trust me, I'm not getting defensive about it... I'd just prefer a realistic approach into improving iPadOS instead slapping macOS onto the iPad and call it a day. Because this gets us nowhere, Apple sells Mac hardware that runs macOS... why on earth would they do it? It's like shooting themselves in the foot lol.

 

[bondr006]

I'd just prefer a realistic approach into improving iPad OS instead slapping macOS onto the iPad and call it a day. Because this gets us nowhere, Apple sells Mac hardware that runs macOS... why on earth would they do it? It's like shooting themselves in the foot lol.

Because they'd make a crap ton of money if they did it....Just because they are Apple, and tons of us are ready for it. You saying that all computer companies that make tablets (and there are many) running a fully featured desktop OS are "shooting themselves in the foot"?

Edit: You gotta know me by now. I love everything about my iPad Pro and iPad OS. I'm one of the biggest iPad and iPad OS advocates here. Shoot, I've been banned a couple times for being a little over zealous in my defense of the iPad. Also one of the few that have actually replaced their MBP with an iPad. I even make videos about them to share with others here. I'd just like some more of it to love is all, and I can't think of a darn thing that's wrong with that!

Edit 2: Going back through my 2,505 posts, thinking at least 75% or more of them are defending or sharing my use of the iPad.

Edit 3: What @Webcat86 said here would be imo the best choice. Give us the option to install MacOS instead of "slapping macOS onto the iPad and call it a day", then everyone can make a choice of whether they want it or not.

In lieu of that, Apple just bringing iPad OS up to speed with a few more features of a desktop OS and being able to run full desktop apps would do it for me.

 

[Arctic Moose]

Again, you are looking at it from the perspective of the user.

Of course, which is exactly what Apple (from Tim down) claims to do. Apple wasn’t concerned about the iPhone cannibalizing the iPod, and they’re not concerned about the iPad cannibalizing the Mac. What they are concerned about is if it will be a good experience. (Which apparently is the reason iPadOS still doesn’t include a calculator. 🤦)

 

[Kahnforever]

These discussions and arguments have been raging since the iPad came out 14 years ago.

And they all go the same way: people want the iPad to be more Mac-like (e.g., run Mac apps directly). And they want the Mac to be more iPad-like (e.g., get a touchscreen Mac) That is a failed approach and deadend.

The discussions also have one thing in common: they are abstract with mostly non-specific detail.

The iPad is a tablet: a thin slate with its internals sandwiched against its screen and with a touch first design. The Mac is a “desktop” point and click design that is designed for precision inputs to 1 pixel and POWER. Thermal envelopes from the MBP through to the Mac Studio and Pro allow for massive sustained processing throughput over long periods of time with virtually unlimited multi-tasking. The MBA also has better cooling with a larger base to radiate heat from. Some benchmarks also show the MBA running tests 2-3 degrees C cooler than the iPad Pro.

A Mac-like experience on iPad would destroy things like iPad’s all day battery life, would cause macOS to run on screens too small with weird aspect ratios, etc. Yes the 13” may be just big enough for macOS but its aspect ratio is not great being boxy. And you can’t make product decisions like this to just affect one version of a whole host of iPad models.

What companies like Apple should be focussed on is not making a current product like some old product. They should be working on NEW products. Products that combine new types of software and hardware.

The Vision Pro is an example. While I don’t like the Vision Pro for a number of reasons, my opinion doesn’t invalidate the new technology or detract from others using it. One pattern I have seen posted by users of Vision Pro is how their iPad is collecting dust.

What is the future here? Probably more wearables with a streamlined and slimmed down AVP. Roll out displays or foldable ones, making the smartphone convert into a tablet. This latter alone could destroy the current iPad, combining 2 products into one.

 

[chmania]

The iPad is a tablet: a thin slate with its internals sandwiched against its screen and with a touch first design. The Mac is a “desktop” point and click design that is designed for precision inputs to 1 pixel and POWER.

Well, there are many tablets in the market, and they can run the full OS (Linux or Windows), the same that you get in the laptop and the desktop. As they run the same apps, changing from one to the other is not a problem. There are also tablets running Android, which has a desktop experience baked into them, so it can run full desktop apps in that desktop experience option. The cursor (and the pointer) is the same as in standard computer. And, you can move from mobile experience to the desktop experience with one click. Also, those devices can run both these two experiences at the same time, one on the device, the other on an external monitor.

(I have all those devices, and an iPad too. The iPad has a lot of eye candy, but looks somewhat poorer in execution. My Android tablet with desktop experience has AMOLED screen, and it is 4+ years old.)

 

[Kahnforever]

Well, there are many tablets in the market, and they can run the full OS (Linux or Windows), the same that you get in the laptop and the desktop. As they run the same apps, changing from one to the other is not a problem. There are also tablets running Android, which has a desktop experience baked into them, so it can run full desktop apps in that desktop experience option. The cursor (and the pointer) is the same as in standard computer. And, you can move from mobile experience to the desktop experience with one click. Also, those devices can run both these two experiences at the same time, one on the device, the other on an external monitor.

(I have all those devices, and an iPad too. The iPad has a lot of eye candy, but looks somewhat poorer in execution. My Android tablet with desktop experience has AMOLED screen, and it is 4+ years old.)

This same tired example always comes up in these discussions too. Because you CAN do something, doesn’t mean you should or that it makes sense.

The bottom line is this: no, the iPad, your Android phone, the iPhone, an Android tablet… will never have the power of a Mac. A MacBook Pro, or a Mac Studio, or a Mac Pro… all with proper thermal envelopes and more powerful/much more powerful hardware. This is a fact. It will always be a fact. If you want to run 6 external monitors and do 3D rendering on the fly, you get a proper computer for that like a Mac Pro.

If you want a computer that is designed to run on battery, be light and thin, and last all day without being plugged in, you get an iPad.

While devices like iPad get more powerful and capable over time, so too do Macs. It will always be this way. And this is where things fall apart. Not just for that fact, but also that power is not the only thing. The iPad comes in varying screen sizes, from Mini, to 11” to 13”. No, running point and click software precise to 1 pixel with unlimited multi-tasking makes zero sense on a smartphone or a tablet: on devices designed as touch first and battery powered first.

As a secondary use case, if a person wants to plug into power and a monitor and run a desktop OS, they should knock themselves out. The point is that is not what they are designed for.

 

[chmania]

The bottom line is this: no, the iPad, your Android phone, the iPhone, an Android tablet… will never have the power of a Mac.

I never said it would, but it is nice to have a mobile macOS running tablet.

If you want to run 6 external monitors and do 3D rendering on the fly, you get a proper computer for that like a Mac Pro.

Not everyone is interested in 3D rendering, or any rendering, but just use a tablet that runs the same OS as the MacBook.

If you want a computer that is designed to run on battery, be light and thin, and last all day without being plugged in, you get an iPad.

And, carry a keyboard with you. iPad with a keyboard is top heavy, a slight movement will topple it.

As a secondary use case, if a person wants to plug into power and a monitor and run a desktop OS, they should knock themselves out. The point is that is not what they are designed for.

That I agree. 😊

 

[Retskrad]

Can someone solve this riddle for me? Why is the M4 iPad Pro, the worlds fastest single-core CPU, still running mobile Safari and not the desktop one? How is it possible that Safari on the M4 iPad Pro becomes a laggy mess when scrolling for a few minutes on desktop twitter.com? Or why the desktop youtube.com is also a laggy mess when interacting with the player?

Honestly, nothing about the iPad Pro males any sense. The iPad division is either underfunded, dysfunctional or Tim Apple has instructed them to cripple Safari to make the App Store model the default way people interact with services.

 

[Boil]

...they want the Mac to be more iPad-like (e.g., get a touchscreen Mac) That is a failed approach and deadend.

Only touchscreen Mac I have even known of was a third-party item, so it cannot really be said that Apple tried to make a touchscreen Mac and failed...?

 

[Kahnforever]

Only touchscreen Mac I have even known of was a third-party item, so it cannot really be said that Apple tried to make a touchscreen Mac and failed...?

You haven't read and understood what has been said. I have also discussed in another thread how I have seen and used Apple Mac touchscreen prototypes that have been developed within the company. These date back as far as 1992. I am friends with some higher up engineers from Apple and have been lucky to have seen and used these prototype devices. One Mac with a touchscreen I used that was running the full Mac OS at the time was very close to actually shipping. It was killed at the last minute. You could touch any UI element and also there was an optional stylus.

Apple has also been very public about this. They talk about the inefficiency of using your hands and arms to interact with a touchscreen Mac, and they also talk, rightfully, about macOS not being designed for touch. It is a failed approach.

Apple will need to develop a new class of hardware and new software to make touch on a Mac make sense. The Microsoft Studio desktop is a great example of what a touchscreen iMac could be like. Except Microsoft didn't design Windows to make sense for touch. Apple will need an entirely new macOS that is designed for touch to work.

I have spoken about this before, and have said that Apple could develop one OS to rule them all, where it morphs into certain design patterns based on the device you are using.

A touchscreen Mac though is very problematic on laptops because you have to add some crazy hinge engineering to make it make sense: laptops are top light, and you can't just bang your fingers on it and expect the laptop to sit still, and you need a hinge to allow many more degrees of freedom but to also hold that position. It becomes a bit of a lawnmower with wings.

I will also keep reminding people because they seem to completely forget or whatever: MACS ARE ALREADY IPADS IN MANY RESPECTS BECAUSE THEY HAVE MULTI-TOUCH BUILT IN. Pretty much all of the multi-touch gestures you have on the iPad is included in a Mac with the multi-touch trackpad. It truly gives you the best of both worlds in that respect. And it also provides the 1 pixel precision not available on iPad. And even if the hardware would allow it on iPad, the operating system is rightfully designed for touch so that precise input breaks down.

 

[Arctic Moose]

The bottom line is this: no, the iPad, your Android phone, the iPhone, an Android tablet… will never have the power of a Mac. A MacBook Pro, or a Mac Studio, or a Mac Pro… all with proper thermal envelopes and more powerful/much more powerful hardware.

This is simply not true.

As already demonstrated in this thread, normal macOS use requires so little power that the heat dissipation capability of the iPad is practically irrelevant.

Also, the iPad currently has the best single-core performance of ANY Apple product.

The discussions also have one thing in common: they are abstract with mostly non-specific detail.

Quite the opposite is true.

Those of us that want to use macOS on our iPads have specified extremely well-defined use cases. Every single potential technical limitation has been clearly addressed, as have all the objections regarding usability.

You are ignoring all this and simply stating "a Mac is a Mac and an iPad is an iPad". (If Apple released a product identical to the iPad Pro, but running macOS and called the "MacPad", would you be happy?)

 

[Kahnforever]

This is simply not true.

As already demonstrated in this thread, normal macOS use requires so little power that the heat dissipation capability of the iPad is practically irrelevant.

Also, the iPad currently has the best single-core performance of ANY Apple product.



Quite the opposite is true.

Those of us that want to use macOS on our iPads have specified extremely well-defined use cases. Every single potential technical limitation has been clearly addressed, as have all the objections regarding usability.

You are ignoring all this and simply stating "a Mac is a Mac and an iPad is an iPad". (If Apple released a product identical to the iPad Pro, but running macOS and called the "MacPad", would you be happy?)

• It is simply true, in every sense, that macOS requires significant power. That includes the way the operating system works and many of the pro apps developed for it.
• The iPad does not have the thermal envelope to sustain the kind of performance required by professional Mac Apps and macOS itself.
• It makes no sense to launch what we know as macOS today for the iPad. It's absurd. Not just because the Apps for macOS and macOS's effectively unlimited multi-tasking will bleed the iPad's battery down to minutes/a few hours of run-time and issues with thermals, but also because the screen sizes and aspect ratios of most of the iPads are far too small to make sense for macOS. Like the iPad Mini, or the iPad 11".
• Bottom line: there are multiple performance comparisons of iPad Pros vs. Macs and it's generally a bloodbath not in favour of the iPad Pro. No, it's not just the chip, the thermal envelope on the MBA is larger: it's bifurcated away from the screen, is thicker, and it can dissipate heat across a fairly large surface area. I've seen the iPad Pro run 2-3 degrees C. hotter than the MBA on some tests. Currently, I'm typing this on my new 15" MBA M3 loaded with 24 GB RAM. It doesn't take much for this to get warm all across its underbelly. If the iPad Pro was compared to a MacBook Pro, Mac Studio, or Mac Pro, the divide in sustained performance would be that much worse for the iPad Pro. Many performance tests also show large drop offs in performance with the iPad Pro (e.g., 30-50% drop off in performance after even just 5 minutes) because it cannot sustain it given its thermal limitations. Not so with computers with much better thermal envelopes including active cooling.
• Here is a good Apple's to Apple's comparison of an M2 MBA and M2 iPad Pro: both the same spec, both running FCP editing the same video. Spoiler, the MBA handily beats the iPad in most tests, sometimes by a very large margin. It demonstrates the thermal issues with iPad.

"I want to let this thing [iPad Pro] cool down. When I was re-rendering that, I noticed the screen dimmed... and I guess it makes sense with such a tiny, thin device where the chip is built-in with that display... it's a lot more heat than a fanless MacBook Air where the chip is separate from that screen."​

"Once you're editing for a while or you're doing tougher footage, we definitely notice a difference even with the exact same specs."​

 

[Arctic Moose]

It is simply true, in every sense, that macOS requires significant power. That includes the way the operating system works and many of the pro apps developed for it.

I'll just link to this. Again.

I do not want macOS on iPad. Ever.

I believe they do when the iPad discussion is specifically about running macOS on it. V. I. R. T. U. A. L. I. Z. A. T. I. O. N. MacBooks have a screen, and they can be run in clamshell mode, which people frequently do. The MacBook Air is fanless. You can use an iPad with a mouse, keyboard...

forums.macrumors.com

Using macOS normally, running some office apps in Windows 11 and some scripts in Kali Linux in VMware Fusion, resizing and adjusting photos in Photoshop, drawing some diagrams, editing wikis, while also running e-mail, Teams, a swath of browser tabs, messaging apps and music in the background requires about 5W.

The iPad does not have the thermal envelope to sustain the kind of performance required by professional Mac Apps and macOS itself.

Your claims are objectively false.

Some workloads in some apps would not be a great idea, but that is true for the MacBook Air as well. Besides, all Apple hardware throttles as required, so all the talk of damage is nonsense.

Also, the iPad already handles intense loads, it doesn't need macOS to do that.

I do not want macOS on iPad. Ever.

No, the key words I used were "too hot to touch". Also, no fan in the MacBook Air, which will attempt to run anything you throw at it. A VM app on iPadOS would be throttled to keep the device safe just like Final Cut Pro, Geekbench, Resolve, Lightroom or Genshin Impact currently are. I have...

forums.macrumors.com

Not just because the Apps for macOS and macOS's effectively unlimited multi-tasking will bleed the iPad's battery down to minutes/a few hours of run-time

Incorrect. See above.

but also because the screen sizes and aspect ratios of most of the iPads are far too small to make sense for macOS.

Everything is a compromise. For some, a smaller screen is the correct tradeoff to make.

Also, many users were very happy with the 11" MacBook Air before it was discontinued.

Here is a good Apple's to Apple's comparison of an M2 MBA and M2 iPad Pro: both the same spec, both running FCP editing the same video.

This is irrelevant.

If you need to run heavy workloads you choose the best device you can afford that will work within the other constraints you have to deal with.

Perform that same comparison between that same MacBook Air and practically any other Mac and the difference will be even greater than the difference compared to the iPad, to the MacBook Air's disadvantage.

From your source of information:

(Use a Mac Pro Ultra instead and the difference will be astronomical.)

Does that mean that the MacBook Air should not be allowed to run macOS? That would be the logical conclusion based on your argumentation.

 

[bondr006]

Let's see what iPad OS brings us today at WWDC.

Good article from The Verge on this threads very topic.

The iPad Pro needs software worthy of the name

I wrote this post on an iPad, and I regret everything.

www.theverge.com

 

[chmania]

Let's see what iPad brings us today at WWDC.

Maybe a bottom-heavy keyboard to keep it from tilting over on the lap.

 

[Ludatyk]

Good article from The Verge on this threads very topic.

The iPad Pro needs software worthy of the name

I wrote this post on an iPad, and I regret everything.

www.theverge.com

One thing that I liked about this article is that supposedly it was done with the iPad. But this one part of the article is an odd one…

Even something as simple as writing a blog post while pulling in photos and links from other articles takes way longer and involves way more jumping around than it would on any other screen this size.

First off, he’s writing a blog post on a 11 inch screen… which likely could be a cramped experienced. But dragging and dropping photos or links from various apps using Stage Manager is a fairly easy and speedy process. I personally don’t see how it takes longer or involves more jumping around than any other computing experience.

Maybe a bottom-heavy keyboard to keep it from tilting over on the lap.

What’s the purpose of the comment? WWDC is entirely about what tools Apple plans to bring for developers to build apps and announce new software features…. It has nothing to do with the Magic Keyboard.

If YOU don’t care to use the iPad as a laptop replacement… then why does it bother you if the keyboard tilts over when using it on the lap.

 

[Webcat86]

First off, he’s writing a blog post on a 11 inch screen… which likely could be a cramped experienced. But dragging and dropping photos or links from various apps using Stage Manager is a fairly easy and speedy process. I personally don’t see how it takes longer or involves more jumping around than any other computing experience.

As a user of an 11", it doesn't. Drag and drop is quick and easy, in SM or Split View.

What’s the purpose of the comment?

Same as all this person's other comments: trolling.

 

[bondr006]

One thing that I liked about this article is that supposedly it was done with the iPad. But this one part of the article is an odd one…

First off, he’s writing a blog post on a 11 inch screen… which likely could be a cramped experienced. But dragging and dropping photos or links from various apps using Stage Manager is a fairly easy and speedy process. I personally don’t see how it takes longer or involves more jumping around than any other computing experience.


What’s the purpose of the comment? WWDC is entirely about what tools Apple plans to bring for developers to build apps and announce new software features…. It has nothing to do with the Magic Keyboard.

If YOU don’t care to use the iPad as a laptop replacement… then why does it bother you if the keyboard tilts over when using it on the lap.

We all know why he's here, and it's not to edify.

I agree with you 100% about his Stage Manager complaints. Still would like to see some improvements and features to iPad OS, like being able to run desktop programs, and a few more of the features that will let more folk use the iPad to replace their laptops....like coding, better file management, better background app management, etc. to name a few. I'd sure like to see a few more people here able to ditch their MBP's like I did.

 

[Kahnforever]

I'll just link to this. Again.

I do not want macOS on iPad. Ever.

I believe they do when the iPad discussion is specifically about running macOS on it. V. I. R. T. U. A. L. I. Z. A. T. I. O. N. MacBooks have a screen, and they can be run in clamshell mode, which people frequently do. The MacBook Air is fanless. You can use an iPad with a mouse, keyboard...

forums.macrumors.com

Using macOS normally, running some office apps in Windows 11 and some scripts in Kali Linux in VMware Fusion, resizing and adjusting photos in Photoshop, drawing some diagrams, editing wikis, while also running e-mail, Teams, a swath of browser tabs, messaging apps and music in the background requires about 5W.



Your claims are objectively false.

Some workloads in some apps would not be a great idea, but that is true for the MacBook Air as well. Besides, all Apple hardware throttles as required, so all the talk of damage is nonsense.

Also, the iPad already handles intense loads, it doesn't need macOS to do that.

I do not want macOS on iPad. Ever.

No, the key words I used were "too hot to touch". Also, no fan in the MacBook Air, which will attempt to run anything you throw at it. A VM app on iPadOS would be throttled to keep the device safe just like Final Cut Pro, Geekbench, Resolve, Lightroom or Genshin Impact currently are. I have...

forums.macrumors.com

Incorrect. See above.



Everything is a compromise. For some, a smaller screen is the correct tradeoff to make.

Also, many users were very happy with the 11" MacBook Air before it was discontinued.



This is irrelevant.

If you need to run heavy workloads you choose the best device you can afford that will work within the other constraints you have to deal with.

Perform that same comparison between that same MacBook Air and practically any other Mac and the difference will be even greater than the difference compared to the iPad, to the MacBook Air's disadvantage.

From your source of information:

(Use a Mac Pro Ultra instead and the difference will be astronomical.)

Does that mean that the MacBook Air should not be allowed to run macOS? That would be the logical conclusion based on your argumentation.

My claims are objectively true. Nobody can control how someone uses their device. If macOS is let to run on iPads, then they need to be able to run all the Apps under any condition and deal with all of the multi-tasking.

This is not an argument, these are facts. The iPad does not have the thermal envelope as demonstrated to deal with macOS and its pro apps.

 

[Ludatyk]

I agree with you 100% about his Stage Manager complaints. Still would like to see some improvements and features to iPad OS, like being able to run desktop programs, and a few more of the features that will let more folk use the iPad to replace their laptops....like coding, better file management, better background app management, etc. to name a few. I'd sure like to see a few more people here able to ditch their MBP's like I did.

Critics looking for Apple to push for desktop apps… when the blame could easily be directed at the developers, Affinity and DaVinci has no problem creating desktop-level apps.

And when it comes to better file management… there’s alternative apps that can be of assistance in that department, that’s the beauty of the iPad (I use FileBrowser, you as well). There’s an App Store that can help the user in areas where the iPad is lacking… for instance, the calculator lol.

And yeah, I’d like to see better background management (a toggle to allow an app to run in the background)… but it needs to be implemented in a fashion where it doesn’t kill the battery. But folks are focused on Final Cut Pro not being able to export in the background... which has more to do with the app not being optimized for background processing.

Because some apps have the ability to send you a notification when a task is completed (hence, they run in the background).

 

[Kahnforever]

Critics looking for Apple to push for desktop apps… when the blame could easily be directed at the developers, Affinity and DaVinci has no problem creating desktop-level apps.

And when it comes to better file management… there’s alternative apps that can be of assistance in that department, that’s the beauty of the iPad (I use FileBrowser, you as well). There’s an App Store that can help the user in areas where the iPad is lacking… for instance, the calculator lol.

And yeah, I’d like to see better background management (a toggle to allow an app to run in the background)… but it needs to be implemented in a fashion where it doesn’t kill the battery. But folks are focused on Final Cut Pro not being able to export in the background... which has more to do with the app not being optimized for background processing.

Because some apps have the ability to send you a notification when a task is completed (hence, they run in the background).

Apple limits applications like FCP on the iPad and limits iOS and iPadOS mostly because if they don’t these devices will overheat and their battery life will dump.

 

[sparksd]

Maybe a bottom-heavy keyboard to keep it from tilting over on the lap.

I personally would not want such a weighted keyboard - I like the current implementation and use my hands on the palm rest to steady it in my lap, just as I did with the previous version.

 

[richpjr]

My claims are objectively true. Nobody can control how someone uses their device. If macOS is let to run on iPads, then they need to be able to run all the Apps under any condition and deal with all of the multi-tasking.

This is not an argument, these are facts. The iPad does not have the thermal envelope as demonstrated to deal with macOS and its pro apps.

Opinions are not facts.

 

[Kahnforever]

Opinions are not facts.

Your opinions are not facts.

 

[Ludatyk]

Apple limits applications like FCP on the iPad and limits iOS and iPadOS mostly because if they don’t these devices will overheat and their battery life will dump.

I don’t think that’s the case… I believe FCP is just lacking at this current stage.

It’s plenty of things FCP on the Mac cannot do on the iPad and that has nothing to do with overheat or battery life…. It’s more to do with development. It’s barely starting out whereas on the Mac it has had years of improvements, creating an environment with touch-first in mind is going to take some time to get right.