iPad as a laptop replacement

[richpjr]

Apple is currently better at hardware than software. The iPad‘s hardware is now close to perfection, which meant they put resources in that area. Obviously, AI has the potential to improve every product they sell, so it should take precedence. A Siri major update has been a request from users of all of their products for years now.

I am not sure Apple wants the iPad to replace the Mac. They have said that 50 percent of Mac owners also have an iPad. That would be ( potentially) a lot of sales lost. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Apple saying they are complimentary devices. It’s why so many of the features have them working together…screen sharing, universal control, Airdrop, etc.

Personally, I don’t see a Mac replacing my iPad, either. The removable keyboard and Pencil make it more useful for the many ways I use the iPad. Also, for some unknown reason Apple Music can’t do bit rate switching on the fly with the Mac. The Mac isn’t perfect or people wouldn’t be clamoring for a way to replace it. So another question is why I can spec out a MacBook Pro to the max and still have a device that can’t use Pencil input like a $349 iPad?

Apple sold 21.9 million Macs and 54 million iPads last year. That is 246% more iPads than Macs. The average selling price of a Mac is obviously much higher than that of Macs so Apple won't want to do anything to affect that. However, the complimentary device argument doesn't seem to be true as there are a lot more people buying iPads than Macs.

 

[madat42]

… Name an AI feature that we’ll be talking about for years to come…

Privacy and on-chip processing.

That is if Apple sticks to their word. I think a point has been missed by a lot folks here - AI is the new interface.

 

[Webcat86]

Apple sold 21.9 million Macs and 54 million iPads last year. That is 246% more iPads than Macs. The average selling price of a Mac is obviously much higher than that of Macs so Apple won't want to do anything to affect that. However, the complimentary device argument doesn't seem to be true as there are a lot more people buying iPads than Macs.

I'm not sure how much stock we should put in that figure though. People keep Macs for a long time.

 

[bondr006]

I'm not sure how much stock we should put in that figure though. People keep Macs for a long time.

He said, Apple sold this many last year...not, Apple fans had this many last year. Those are good numbers.

 

[prospervic]

Apple sold 21.9 million Macs and 54 million iPads last year. That is 246% more iPads than Macs. The average selling price of a Mac is obviously much higher than that of Macs so Apple won't want to do anything to affect that. However, the complimentary device argument doesn't seem to be true as there are a lot more people buying iPads than Macs.

You’re forgetting that Macs, having been around longer than iPads, have a huge installed base that typically doesn’t upgrade every couple of years. So lots of people are using iPads to “compliment” a Mac they already own.

 

[chmania]

So lots of people are using iPads to “compliment” a Mac they already own.

That is, if they already don't own an iPhone.
People buy an iPhone and an iPad, maybe even cellular, but after a while, only the iPhone is frequently used. Most buy things for the sake of buying, just to own. Later they become paperweights.

 

[bondr006]

Apple sold 21.9 million Macs and 54 million iPads last year. That is 246% more iPads than Macs. The average selling price of a Mac is obviously much higher than that of Macs so Apple won't want to do anything to affect that. However, the complimentary device argument doesn't seem to be true as there are a lot more people buying iPads than Macs.

You’re forgetting that Macs, having been around longer than iPads, have a huge installed base that typically doesn’t upgrade every couple of years. So lots of people are using iPads to “compliment” a Mac they already own.

The key words are "sold last year", NOT how many people had last year.

 

[lsquare]

Privacy and on-chip processing.

That is if Apple sticks to their word. I think a point has been missed by a lot folks here - AI is the new interface.

Apple will be processing some AI tasks via the cloud. It's inexcusable that those dates won't be available on older iPhones/iPads.

 

[Webcat86]

He said, Apple sold this many last year...not, Apple fans had this many last year. Those are good numbers.

The key words are "sold last year", NOT how many people had last year.

I think you're perhaps missing the point. As I read it, the statement about iPads outselling Macs was made to highlight their popularity over Macs — but they aren't starting from 0 each year. iPads outselling Macs in one year doesn't mean much of anything — I bought an iMac 2 years ago and iPad this year. So this year I bought 0 Macs and 1 iPad, yet I still have the same number of each.

Macs are long-term devices. With few exceptions, people aren't eager to upgrade them with the regularity of an iPhone. This is also true of iPads but probably to a lesser extent. Case in point, before buying this iMac I was using my 2015 MBP. My wife has had her MBA for close to a decade. I couldn't tell you how many iPads and iPhones we've gone through in that same period of time.

 

[sparksd]

Most buy things for the sake of buying, just to own. Later they become paperweights.

How do you know that? Are you making a sweeping generalizing for all based on what you see with your local circle of acquaintances?

 

[bondr006]

I think you're perhaps missing the point. As I read it, the statement about iPads outselling Macs was made to highlight their popularity over Macs — but they aren't starting from 0 each year. iPads outselling Macs in one year doesn't mean much of anything — I bought an iMac 2 years ago and iPad this year. So this year I bought 0 Macs and 1 iPad, yet I still have the same number of each.

Macs are long-term devices. With few exceptions, people aren't eager to upgrade them with the regularity of an iPhone. This is also true of iPads but probably to a lesser extent. Case in point, before buying this iMac I was using my 2015 MBP. My wife has had her MBA for close to a decade. I couldn't tell you how many iPads and iPhones we've gone through in that same period of time.

OK, lets do this then...

 

[Webcat86]

OK, lets do this then...

View attachment 2387526 View attachment 2387527

But why? We know iPads sell more than Macs. It stands to reason that this is the case. Look at the popularity of iPads in education and work settings — those are multi-device purchases in one go. We've seen members on this forum telling us they have an iPad in every room of their house.

I'm just not sure I understand the logic of this exercise. Are we using these numbers to say that Apple is protecting Mac sales by limiting iPad features? If so, don't these sales figures show their plan is failing?

And those Mac sales are, presumably, Macs as an entire range. Nobody thinks iPad is being chosen over desktop computers like iMacs or Mac Pros or Mac minis. So the more meaningful comparison would be sales of iPads vs sales of MacBooks — but even then, someone needs to explain what this comparison is supposedly telling us.

 

[chmania]

How do you know that? Are you making a sweeping generalizing for all based on what you see with your local circle of acquaintances?

Let's say, I know how people react to certain type of advertising, that people buy things they don't want, but certain impulse/urge that makes them do that. And, there's also that what-if-I-don't-have-that attitude inspired by such ads.

 

[sparksd]

Let's say, I know how people react to certain type of advertising, that people buy things they don't want, but certain impulse/urge that makes them do that. And, there's also that what-if-I-don't-have-that attitude inspired by such ads.

You don't have unique insight and none of that makes such a generalization a truth but rather it's "I think they do that".

 

[Uofmtiger]

Apple sold 21.9 million Macs and 54 million iPads last year. That is 246% more iPads than Macs. The average selling price of a Mac is obviously much higher than that of Macs so Apple won't want to do anything to affect that. However, the complimentary device argument doesn't seem to be true as there are a lot more people buying iPads than Macs.

As I said, Apple said half their Mac users have an iPad. That isn’t all Mac users. However, they are still complimentary… like peanut butter and jelly. In our household, we buy a lot more peanut butter than jelly, so the number sold doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that certain features of each product compliment the other product. In the case of PBJ, they didn’t directly add features to make them complimentary. It just happens to be the case.

With Apple, they actually built in several features to make them work together, so they intentionally made them complimentary. Though, like PBJ they both are fine without the other, depending on the individual’s needs.

 

[madat42]

Apple will be processing some AI tasks via the cloud. It's inexcusable that those dates won't be available on older iPhones/iPads.

Yup, hence PRIVACY. AI is here but time will tell if Apple actually cares about their users’ privacy even if the users don’t or other companies don’t.

 

[richpjr]

OK, lets do this then...

View attachment 2387526 View attachment 2387527

This is a very telling chart. I think most people would say that going back to 2011 is about the extreme edge of life for a Mac or iPad so from then through the end of 2023 there have been 731.7 million iPads sold vs 256.4 million Macs. Maybe Apple should say that Macs are a complementary device to iPads???

 

[Uofmtiger]

This is a very telling chart. I think most people would say that going back to 2011 is about the extreme edge of life for a Mac or iPad so from then through the end of 2023 there have been 731.7 million iPads sold vs 256.4 million Macs. Maybe Apple should say that Macs are a complementary device to iPads???

Here is the quote from an article: https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...gainst-each-other-so-buy-both-says-apple-exec

"We don't see them as competing devices. We see them as complementary devices," Tom Boger, Apple's vice president of iPad and Mac product marketing, told her.

Specifically, Boger says that in Apple's mind, the iPad "has always been a touch-first device." By contrast, the Mac in all its forms is for what he described as "indirect manipulation," that is working using accessories like a keyboard and trackpad.

I don’t think he was saying the iPad was a compliment to the iPad or vice versa.

 

[Webcat86]

This is a very telling chart. I think most people would say that going back to 2011 is about the extreme edge of life for a Mac or iPad so from then through the end of 2023 there have been 731.7 million iPads sold vs 256.4 million Macs. Maybe Apple should say that Macs are a complementary device to iPads???

By the same logic, iPads and Macs are complementary to iPhones.

Here is the quote from an article: https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...gainst-each-other-so-buy-both-says-apple-exec

"We don't see them as competing devices. We see them as complementary devices," Tom Boger, Apple's vice president of iPad and Mac product marketing, told her.

Specifically, Boger says that in Apple's mind, the iPad "has always been a touch-first device." By contrast, the Mac in all its forms is for what he described as "indirect manipulation," that is working using accessories like a keyboard and trackpad.

I don’t think he was saying the iPad was a compliment to the iPad or vice versa.

He literally does.

 

[Uofmtiger]

By the same logic, iPads and Macs are complementary to iPhones.

He literally does.

where does he say that the iPad is a compliment to the Mac? He simply said they are both complimentary and not competitors.

 

[Webcat86]

where does he say that the iPad is a compliment to the Mac? He simply said they are both complimentary and not competitors.

Yes, they complement each other. You said he didn't say the iPad was a complement or vice versa that the Mac was a complement to the iPad.

 

[Ludatyk]

However, the complimentary device argument doesn't seem to be true as there are a lot more people buying iPads than Macs.

But there’s no right or wrong answer. It all depends on how the user utilize the iPad in their workflow… sometimes it can be a complimentary device, maybe a primary one… sometimes it can be an extension to the Mac.

If it was up to Apple, they want you to buy both…. because each device can bounce off the other with features like SideCar, Continuity and Universal Control. However, the iPad has the possibility be a standalone device... if the user workflow is appropriate for it.

 

[bmustaf]

I think, at this point, the question is not one of form factor, as the iPad, largely, is physically a laptop if you want it to be. The question is, more precisely, does your multi-tasking & application suite and workflow lend it self to the limitations/opinionation of iPadOS.

I think those who truly use macos for it's full feature set, the answer is resoundingly, "no, AAPL, the iPad is not a computer". But for those whose needs are not the full gamut of macos features in terms of window management, multi tasking in certin ways, etc, iPadOS maybe ok.

I have really, really wanted my iPad to replace my laptop and be a computer. It is not for me.

 

[Ludatyk]

I think, at this point, the question is not one of form factor, as the iPad, largely, is physically a laptop if you want it to be. The question is, more precisely, does your multi-tasking & application suite and workflow lend it self to the limitations/opinionation of iPadOS.

I think those who truly use macos for it's full feature set, the answer is resoundingly, "no, AAPL, the iPad is not a computer". But for those whose needs are not the full gamut of macos features in terms of window management, multi tasking in certin ways, etc, iPadOS maybe ok.

I have really, really wanted my iPad to replace my laptop and be a computer. It is not for me.

To each their own, but I don’t think multi-tasking is the deciding factor on whether it could be a replacement for a Mac user.

Because there is some multi-tasking features available on iPadOS, it’s not as if it’s non-existent… ultimately you can only focus on one application at a time. I personally don’t see why this need for unlimited power in multi-tasking… could someone explain this to me?

But on your point with application suite… that’s understandable, some devs don’t put that much resources behind applications for the iPad. Because I know some folks need full Office suite (especially with Excel) or certain plugins with FCP.

 

[Uofmtiger]

To each their own, but I don’t think multi-tasking is the deciding factor on whether it could be a replacement for a Mac user.

Because there is some multi-tasking features available on iPadOS, it’s not as if it’s non-existent… ultimately you can only focus on one application at a time. I personally don’t see why this need for unlimited power in multi-tasking… could someone explain this to me?

But on your point with application suite… that’s understandable, some devs don’t put that much resources behind applications for the iPad. Because I know some folks need full Office suite (especially with Excel) or certain plugins with FCP.

I agree with you, and along those lines, I think that "solving" that issue would require it to run MacOS apps or be able to load MacOS via dual boot. Apple can't control what other companies do, so I don't see how they get the desktop version of Photoshop (one common example) on the iPad without MacOS if the third party company doesn't want to devote the time to it. Apple is trying to rewrite Final Cut to get it more on par with the desktop version and that is coming along slowly, so what hope is there that Adobe and other companies will spend time updating for the iPad?

That being said, Apple has given us no indication that they have any interest in achieving this result. As of now, you get the OS that fits your needs best or buy a mixture of devices. I will have a desktop and an iPad no matter which way Apple goes, so it’s a mixture for me.