iPad Pro iPad design: needs to significantly evolve. Surface Pro X has it beat.

[muzzy996]

This.



Perhaps that blank slate design is all that is necessary.

By using such a basic design it means any variety of individuals can find a way to adapt the product for their own specific needs. Which would explain the ridiculous amount of third party support for iPad for niche users to the mass market.

There's a reason why the KISS principle was so widely accepted, and is still applicable 50+ years later.

That's the thought that I had as well. Companies will always look to preserve margin so if the majority of users are adding cases for protection then the inclusion of a kickstand could be seen by design/marketing teams as a waste of margin. That margin can't be recovered from accessory sales if a significant amount of cases are sold by third parties.

I get why OP prefers a kickstand and I get use out of the one that is on the logitech case that I have on my iPad Pro but clearly if I was looking for additional protection on the non-kickstand portion of a surface tablet I'd still have to add weight/thickness to it with a case. In the end Apple's decision to just go with a simple flat back and allow for greater flexibility of case designs probably boils down to just margin and giving users the flexibility to decide what they want on their own.

 

[JayMysterio]

That's the thought that I had as well. Companies will always look to preserve margin so if the majority of users are adding cases for protection then the inclusion of a kickstand could be seen by design/marketing teams as a waste of margin. That margin can't be recovered from accessory sales if a significant amount of cases are sold by third parties.

I get why OP prefers a kickstand and I get use out of the one that is on the logitech case that I have on my iPad Pro but clearly if I was looking for additional protection on the non-kickstand portion of a surface tablet I'd still have to add weight/thickness to it with a case. In the end Apple's decision to just go with a simple flat back and allow for greater flexibility of case designs probably boils down to just margin and giving users the flexibility to decide what they want on their own.

Exactly. My needs for the iPad Pro will not be the same as others. Keeping it simple though, allows for smaller companies or even myself to create niche products to meet those needs. Products or needs that Apple or Microsoft can't be expected to meet, because they need to produce a product for everyone.

While a kickstand maybe great to the OP, it isn't sufficient for me. So a product like this is appealing to me.

Why would Apple spend the money for a kickstand that I or others may or may not use?

But a third party may see it's necessity, and step in create something that will specifically fill the needs of myself and one or two thousand others.

 

[NoBoMac]

Moderator Note:

Cease with the name calling, insults, trolling, and citing opinion as fact and arguing about it. If you want to assert something as fact, back it up with a source.

 

[booksbooks]

Exactly. My needs for the iPad Pro will not be the same as others. Keeping it simple though, allows for smaller companies or even myself to create niche products to meet those needs. Products or needs that Apple or Microsoft can't be expected to meet, because they need to produce a product for everyone.

While a kickstand maybe great to the OP, it isn't sufficient for me. So a product like this is appealing to me.

Why would Apple spend the money for a kickstand that I or others may or my not use?

But a third party may see it's necessity, and step in create something that will specifically fill the needs of myself and one or two thousand others.

Nice thing about a kickstand is that you don’t HAVE to use it. It’s there if/when you need it.

What would be interesting is to get data on the percentage of iPad users who need to prop up the device. The hypothesis is that it’s a lot.

 

[JayMysterio]

Nice thing about a kickstand is that you don’t HAVE to use it. It’s there if/when you need it.

What would be interesting is to get data on the percentage of iPad users who need to prop up the device. The hypothesis is that it’s a lot.

Which was NOT the point.

As @muzzy996 points out it may not be a cost effective addition that Apple felt was justified.

It isn't a matter of how many iPad owners need to prop up an iPad. It's a matter of how many besides a non seeming iPad owner like yourself feel that a kickstand is necessary. Your own poll would seem to indicate that almost 4 to 1, don't feel as passionately as you do about a kickstand.

If a majority of iPad owners seem to not care for whether there is a kickstand or not, why should Apple bear & add the cost of something unwarranted?

To make you happy?



It isn't necessarily a sign that the iPad's design is dated.

It could just be sign of keeping things simple, so the options for the user are many.

 

[thunng8]

Nice thing about a kickstand is that you don’t HAVE to use it. It’s there if/when you need it.

What would be interesting is to get data on the percentage of iPad users who need to prop up the device. The hypothesis is that it’s a lot.

If you don’t use it there is a price to pay in weight. The surface pro x is approx 150g heavier than the 12.9 iPad Pro and I believe most of that extra weight is because of the kickstand.

 

[booksbooks]

Which was NOT the point.

As @muzzy996 points out it may not be a cost effective addition that Apple felt was justified.

It isn't a matter of how many iPad owners need to prop up an iPad. It's a matter of how many besides a non seeming iPad owner like yourself feel that a kickstand is necessary. Your own poll would seem to indicate that almost 4 to 1, don't feel as passionately as you do about a kickstand.

If a majority of iPad owners seem to not care for whether there is a kickstand or not, why should Apple bear & add the cost of something unwarranted?

To make you happy?



It isn't necessarily a sign that the iPad's design is dated.

It could just be sign of keeping things simple, so the options for the user are many.

It is certainly not because of cost that Apple doesn’t build in a kickstand. Apple puts the user first with expensive products, and if they thought it was a key feature, I’m certain they would build it in.

One of the main reasons that I think they don’t build it in is because:

1. iOS is not point and click, so using it like a laptop with a keyboard/trackpad requiring it to be propped up doesn’t fit the device as well as it does a Surface. The way the hardware and software are designed is to be a blank slate. It’s hard to pivot from that.

The poll here is not generalizable but is interesting, because it’s on a Mac site with Apple fans. The results of it could be the inverse on a Microsoft site...

The context of this whole discussion is about how Apple is now pushing the iPad as a sole computer for people. The iOS changes... the push for full productivity Apps... the “Pro” line... the Pencil...

Out of the box, it’s largely stillborn for several productive use cases unless it can be propped up. And what is available to the User are cases that lack the degrees of freedom of the kickstand and add their own weight and thickness.
[automerge]1572407231[/automerge]

If you don’t use it there is a price to pay in weight. The surface pro x is approx 150g heavier than the 12.9 iPad Pro and I believe most of that extra weight is because of the kickstand.

First, why do you believe that the extra weight is from the kickstand? Where did you get that information?

Second, I never use the camera on my iPad Pro. It’s effectively a total waste for me. Does that mean that Apple shouldn’t build in the camera with that bump that causes the device to not lay flat and creates extra weight and thickness? No, it doesn’t.

The hypothesis is that a lot of people who use this class of tablet, like the iPad Pro or the SPX need to prop it up. So that it becomes an essential and widely used feature.

 

[JayMysterio]

Out of the box, it’s largely stillborn for several productive use cases unless it can be propped up. And what is available to the User are cases that lack the degrees of freedom of the kickstand and add their own weight and thickness.

You are still associating your feelings of the importance of a kickstand with what makes something productive in your mind.

If one prefers to use their tablet in portrait mode, why does one need a kickstand that is made for horizontal use?

Out of the box, many devices aren't ready for use. Not until they get specific apps or programs needed for a particular user. The same can be said if a user decides to get a case or cover that can act as a stand, or one uses it flat. In recognition of the fact that persons getting iPads want a slim profile as possible, Apple made a case that doubles as a stand & cover with minimal additional weight. If a user decides they need one that is. Once again it's the decision of the user if it's so important. It's a decision or opinion, if a kickstand, case, app, program, OS, or whatever, is necessary for a tablet to be productive for an individual.

 

[booksbooks]

You are still associating your feelings of the importance of a kickstand with what makes something productive in your mind.

If one prefers to use their tablet in portrait mode, why does one need a kickstand that is made for horizontal use?

Out of the box, many devices aren't ready for use. Not until they get specific apps or programs needed for a particular user. The same can be said if a user decides to get a case or cover that can act as a stand, or one uses it flat. In recognition of the fact that persons getting iPads want a slim profile as possible, Apple made a case that doubles as a stand & cover with minimal additional weight. If a user decides they need one that is. Once again it's the decision of the user if it's so important. It's a decision or opinion, if a kickstand, case, app, program, OS, or whatever, is necessary for a tablet to be productive for an individual.

You erected a strawman.

You said I'm associating my feelings with a kickstand when I have done nothing of the sort. And then, you go on, illogically, to conclude that a kickstand is effectively only productive in MY MIND. This is completely false and illogical.

I have pointed out repeatedly that there are many use cases where propping up the device is a must for productivity, and that the iPad cannot do that out of the box unless a case is bought. You have pointed out one use case where a person can be productive without doing that by resting the iPad on their leg and using a pencil to draw and implicitly, and erroneously, seemed to generalize from there. That does not, in anyway, diminish and detract from the multiple other use cases where the device needs to be propped up on its own to be productive.

You also said:

In recognition of the fact that persons getting iPads want a slim profile as possible, Apple made a case that doubles as a stand & cover with minimal additional weight.

If you are referring to the Apple Smart Keyboard Folio for the new iPad Pro 12.9, it is absolutely NOT light. It's heavy (close to 1 full pound). Lighter ones without the keyboard still add weight and then the thickness as the new iPad Pro design requires a complete back to the case to wrap around the device, unlike prior iPad designs that could simply have cases attached with magnets on the spine. I am not aware of any case that Apple has made other than this one that has the keyboard on it for the iPad Pro 12.9, which is the comparison to be made to the SPX.

Further, Microsoft has an effective design since the keyboard can be attached just to the spine of the device without wrapping around the back, thereby not adding further thickness. And it's detachable from the spine, where a person can still have prop up functionality with no need for the keyboard cover or case.

Objective kickstand reality:

1. The kickstand has near infinite degrees of freedom, so you can angle and anchor the tablet in many ways. Compare this to cases for the iPad, for instance. These generally do not have hardly any degrees of freedom (several only 1 or 2). And they wobble with use. This isn’t as functionally effective as the kickstand is.

2. Cases for the iPad, for instance, add weight and thickness to the device. And with the new iPad Pro design, cases generally must wrap around the back of the device as well.

3. Being forced to buy a case to have prop up functionality means spending extra money. This is not necessary with a built-in kickstand.

4. When a person doesn’t want to use the case on their iPad, they have to take it off and then the problem becomes storing this extra thing that is really substantial when talking about the iPad Pro 12.9. The case here is similar to a complete other tablet in terms of its weight, thickness, and footprint. This is not required for a device that has a built-in kickstand.

FYI: I designed a mock up of a kickstand for an Apple tablet in 2007, 3 years before they announced the iPad. The kickstand would prop up the tablet in either portrait or landscape mode, and itself has multiple degrees of freedom.

 

[JayMysterio]

You erected a strawman.

You said I'm associating my feelings with a kickstand when I have done nothing of the sort. And then, you go on, illogically, to conclude that a kickstand is effectively only productive in MY MIND. This is completely false and illogical.

I have pointed out repeatedly that there are many use cases where propping up the device is a must for productivity, and that the iPad cannot do that out of the box unless a case is bought. You have pointed out one use case where a person can be productive without doing that by resting the iPad on their leg and using a pencil to draw and implicitly, and erroneously, seemed to generalize from there. That does not, in anyway, diminish and detract from the multiple other use cases where the device needs to be propped up on its own to be productive.

You also said:

In recognition of the fact that persons getting iPads want a slim profile as possible, Apple made a case that doubles as a stand & cover with minimal additional weight.

If you are referring to the Apple Smart Keyboard Folio for the new iPad Pro 12.9, it is absolutely NOT light. It's heavy (close to 1 full pound). Lighter ones without the keyboard still add weight and then the thickness as the new iPad Pro design requires a complete back to the case to wrap around the device, unlike prior iPad designs that could simply have cases attached with magnets on the spine. I am not aware of any case that Apple has made other than this one that has the keyboard on it for the iPad Pro 12.9, which is the comparison to be made to the SPX.

Further, Microsoft has an effective design since the keyboard can be attached just to the spine of the device without wrapping around the back, thereby not adding further thickness. And it's detachable from the spine, where a person can still have prop up functionality with no need for the keyboard cover or case.

I haven't erected any strawmen. I only used the metric you established that your argument hinges on. There's been no provided stats or documented metrics that state a tablet needs a kickstand or wherever else you want to go, to be productive. You say you've stated cases where it's necessary to prop up a device to be productive. Does that mean anyone who uses the tablet differently isn't productive?

Also, no I wasn't referring to the smart keyboard. Just the smart case. Adding a keyboard case, when you are talking only about the kickstand, is adding something completely different to the conversation. Which on the 11 inch iPad Pro is about 297 grams. The 12.9 about 407 grams. Something once again, is completely up to the user to decide if it's necessary for what they feel they need to be productive.

Not you.

 

[booksbooks]

I haven't erected any strawmen. I only used the metric you established that your argument hinges on. There's been no provided stats or documented metrics that state a tablet needs a kickstand or wherever else you want to go, to be productive. You say you've stated cases where it's necessary to prop up a device to be productive. Does that mean anyone who uses the tablet differently isn't productive?

Also, no I wasn't referring to the smart keyboard. Just the smart case. Adding a keyboard case, when you are talking only about the kickstand, is adding something completely different to the conversation. Which on the 11 inch iPad Pro is about 297 grams. The 12.9 about 407 grams. Something once again, is completely up to the user to decide if it's necessary for what they feel they need to be productive.

Not you.

Yes you absolutely erected a strawman as pointed out. Now you're doing it again by not actually addressing that you did and I've clearly pointed out the erroneous logic. Now you talk about a "metric" that I established. What metric did I establish and what does my argument hinge on?

Now, for the "smart case" as you refer to it, please point out, forthwith, Apple's smart case for the iPad Pro 12.9. Go find that magical case and post a link back here. HINT: you may not find something that doesn't exist...

 

[JayMysterio]

Yes you absolutely erected a strawman as pointed out. Now you're doing it again by not actually addressing that you did and I've clearly pointed out the erroneous logic. Now you talk about a "metric" that I established. What metric did I establish and what does my argument hinge on?

Now, for the "smart case" as you refer to it, please point out, forthwith, Apple's smart case for the iPad Pro 12.9. Go find that magical case and post a link back here. HINT: you may not find something that doesn't exist...

You got me, in my haste I typed case instead of cover. When you google smart case you will find that it spits out the cover as well. I suppose the logic is that it covers both the front & back. I myself refer to my various covers as cases. My bad.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ew-cases-sleeves-thread.2152285/post-26917017

My apologies for getting you excited I made in error in typing.

Interestingly enough though, you understood what I meant in reference to the smart keyboard you wrongly assumed I was referring to.

As far as metric claim, what have you been droning on about ipad pro vs surface pro?

The kickstand.

Thus it's the metric that you established on what this has been about. That somehow the kickstand is needed for something to be productive, because you decided that to productive a device has to be propped up. I asked before which you avoided, if a person doesn't prop up the device or use it differently than you imagine, does that NOT make them productive?

My belief? No, it does NOT make them NOT productive. It just means they are using a product differently then you want. A kickstand isn't necessary for them, and Apple perhaps feels the kickstand is NOT necessary for many of their customers. It isn't a design shortcoming as you demand, it just is NOT a necessity.

No strawman. Just following the logic you laid out for your own argument.

Despite how much you obsessively seem to love the kickstand.

 

[booksbooks]

You got me, in my haste I typed case instead of cover. When you google smart case you will find that it spits out the cover as well. I suppose the logic is that it covers both the front & back. I myself refer to my various covers as cases. My bad.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ew-cases-sleeves-thread.2152285/post-26917017

My apologies for getting you excited I made in error in typing.

Interestingly enough though, you understood what I meant in reference to the smart keyboard you wrongly assumed I was referring to.

As far as metric claim, what have you been droning on about ipad pro vs surface pro?

The kickstand.

Thus it's the metric that you established on what this has been about. That somehow the kickstand is needed for something to be productive, because you decided that to productive a device has to be propped up. I asked before which you avoided, if a person doesn't prop up the device or use it differently than you imagine, does that NOT make them productive?

My belief? No, it does NOT make them NOT productive. It just means they are using a product differently then you want. A kickstand isn't necessary for them, and Apple perhaps feels the kickstand is NOT necessary for many of their customers. It isn't a design shortcoming as you demand, it just is NOT a necessity.

No strawman. Just following the logic you laid out for your own argument.

Despite how much you obsessively seem to love the kickstand.

The problem with your approach is that you generalize that because a person can be productive without something to prop up the device, that they therefore don't need to prop up the device. That is erroneous. I know that people can be productive with the iPad without propping it up, like resting it on a leg and drawing. How well that works is another discussion. Having that said, that does not detract away from the many other use cases where a person needs to have the device propped up. We use computers in many different scenarios, and they need to be versatile.

And then you end your post with another strawman: that you say I "love the kickstand". Again, absurd. I don't love the kickstand. This is you trying to insert a strawman argument about making this about someone's emotions. Again and again, objectivity:

Objective kickstand reality:

1. The kickstand has near infinite degrees of freedom, so you can angle and anchor the tablet in many ways. Compare this to cases for the iPad, for instance. These generally do not have hardly any degrees of freedom (several only 1 or 2). And they wobble with use. This isn’t as functionally effective as the kickstand is.

2. Cases for the iPad, for instance, add weight and thickness to the device. And with the new iPad Pro design, cases generally must wrap around the back of the device as well.

3. Being forced to buy a case to have prop up functionality means spending extra money. This is not necessary with a built-in kickstand.

4. When a person doesn’t want to use the case on their iPad, they have to take it off and then the problem becomes storing this extra thing that is really substantial when talking about the iPad Pro 12.9. The case here is similar to a complete other tablet in terms of its weight, thickness, and footprint. This is not required for a device that has a built-in kickstand.

 

[revmacian]

@booksbooks You’ve found something that works for you and you’re passionate about it. I applaud you, good job!

I, however, would NOT want a kickstand on my iPad.. it simply doesn’t work for my use case. I would likely stop buying iPads if Apple were to add a kickstand. That is how passionate I am about NOT having a kickstand.

Is it fair for you and I to assume that our opposite opinions and use cases would work best for everyone? Absolutely not. And, yes, despite what you want to believe, these are opinions. Without intimate details we simply cannot assume what is best for someone else because we would be moving forward lacking vital information.. and that is how mistakes are made.

One person’s “better” is another person’s “worse”. One person’s “cumbersome” is another person’s “simple”. One person’s “waste” is another person’s “efficient”.

Opinions are good for each of us, but they aren’t good enough to press onto people.

 

[urbanslaughter1997]

Hey, everyone,

Now that Apple is not having an October event, what should I do about an iPad Pro? I want to get one. Should I wait, or just buy last year's model? Thanks.

 

[kamikazeeMC]

I want to get one. Should I wait, or just buy last year's model?

If you need it/get immediate use out of it and its current specs/features fill your needs, go for it. I was hoping for a refresh so the lower tiers would get more ram, but I'm just gonna go for a 2018 1TB one during black friday or something.

 

[urbanslaughter1997]

If you need it/get immediate use out of it and its current specs/features fill your needs, go for it. I was hoping for a refresh so the lower tiers would get more ram, but I'm just gonna go for a 2018 1TB one during black friday or something.

What's the belief, will a new one come out in the next couple months, or will I have to wait for next fall?

 

[kamikazeeMC]

What's the belief

The 12.9" has had a 18 month cycle, so some think there could be something ~March.
Do we suspect an A13X iPad Pro refresh in Fall? Or is Apple done with iPads for 2019?

 

[JayMysterio]

Hey, everyone,

Now that Apple is not having an October event, what should I do about an iPad Pro? I want to get one. Should I wait, or just buy last year's model? Thanks.

What's the belief, will a new one come out in the next couple months, or will I have to wait for next fall?

You have access to the same info we do on the forum. We don't know, we'd just be guessing if we told you anything.

Like someone said, if you need it now, get it now. If you don't, why not wait and see what happens. You also have the luxury that since it's been out long enough, you can check the Apple refurbs and hopefully stumble on the model you want, with a tiny discount on it.

 

[polbit]

Despite the back and forth, this is an interesting argument. I've been a Surface user forever, and an iPad user/owner few times. I now have Surface Pro 6 and iPad 12.9. I use them for different things and love the combination of the two. I do use the stand a lot, and beyond what's been said, it also has one additional benefit - a keyboard case doesn't have to have a mechanism to prop it up. It makes it quicker and less cumbersome to open/set up that my iPad/Apple Keyboard Case - I constantly keep finding myself opening the wrong side, or pulling too hard on it. With that said, I use my iPad for more creative tasks, and I tend to use it a lot naked or in a specialized stand, being music production, drawing, photo/video editing, etc.

Overall, I think the stand makes perfect sense for more keyboard-centric Surface, and less for iPad. Both are fantastic devices IMHO and their designs match their primary use cases well (although Apple can definitely build a better Keyboard Case...).

My personal pet peeve is with their rear cameras. Talk about fringe cases on 13" screen slabs...
[automerge]1572459258[/automerge]

What's the belief, will a new one come out in the next couple months, or will I have to wait for next fall?

Nothing drastic is being planned for 2020 iPads as far as all the leaks. As it stands, the 2018 iPads are more than powerful enough to run everything to throw at them. I just bought mine last month, not going to wait 6-9 months just to get a spec bump. Life's too short, buy the current one and enjoy it! If for some reason you absolutely must have the 2020 model, you can always upgrade, they maintain their value very well.

 

[pdoherty]

I have to disagree with you regarding third party options. The Brydge bluetooth keyboards are fantastic and go a long way to make the iPad more like a touch-enabled MacBook, complete with iPadOS function keys and backlighting.

It has quite mixed reviews on Amazon.

And why don’t these things have a trackpad? Seems that would be a good idea so you don’t need to touch the screen when the keyboard is in use.

 

[JagdTiger]

Vote on whether you think the iPad design needs to evolve to include a built-in kickstand. The Surface Pro line has well designed kickstands that effectively disappear into the device when retracted and have close to limitless degrees of freedom.

I've owned every iPad since the first. I've developed software for them. I understand tablet use cases and the history. Apple ushered in a new category with the iPad. As Steve Jobs stated in the initial keynote, there had to be a reason for such a device to exist... a category in between a smartphone and a laptop. He talked about a set of things that the iPad could be better at than a smartphone or laptop, like surfing the Web, watching a movie, reading a book... and a few other things. For the most part, this is still true today when it comes to tablets in terms of the possibility of them being better at these things than other categories of devices.

But we're many years now into tablets, and to me, after seeing the Microsoft Surface Pro X, it beats the iPad Pro... to the point where Apple is now lagging in tablet innovation. There are some key areas where the Surface Pro X bests the iPad Pro:

• The overall design looks better and is more balanced than the iPad Pro. The iPad Pro is blocky and uninspired, although still rather nice and a bit thinner and lighter than the Surface Pro X. This is somewhat subjective I admit, but if we talk about design principles, like the fact it doesn't have a massive camera bump and one that is flush so the device can lay flat on the ground... the rounded edges, etc.
• The keyboard cover. No question here. It kills Apple's iPad keyboard cover or any third party one. It's got the best materials, has backlighting, is thin and light and has a large multi-touch glass trackpad (makes sense with the Windows software).
• The stylus with its hidden nest in the keyboard cover, effectively always charged status, and eraser tip bests Apple's.
• The kickstand. The iPad's lack of a kickstand is now at a point to be a detriment to it. Apple is trying to sell it as the only computer you'll need for a target market, but it certainly cannot function like that out of the box in terms of being a laptop replacement for those that it may do that for. And the third party options are pretty ridiculous: awkward and compromised, and particularly lacking in the degrees of freedom of the built-in Surface Pro kickstand. This latter kickstand is what fuels artists to create on the device... Apple is summarily beaten here in a big way.
• Fast charging. 80% battery charge in less than an hour for the Surface Pro X. iPad Pro cannot do this.
• Other cool things about the Surface Pro X. It has 2 USB C ports. It's also compatible with the Surface dial. It can have up to 16 GB of RAM. Its hard drive is easily accessible and replaceable by the User. Surface Pro X has a slightly larger display than the iPad Pro at 13" vs. 12.9".
• Some things the iPad Pro bests the Surface Pro X on. ProMotion display (120 hz refresh rate). Unknown what the Surface Pro X's is, but I assume it's not that good. iPad Pro has 600 nits for screen brightness, Surface Pro X 450. iPad Pro is lighter by about .3 lbs.

Disclaimer: I hate Windows and won't use it. But I admit as an Apple person that the Surface Pro X is compelling in the way I've described.

The surface tablet/pc actually is copy of iPad...it was the original fab tab...a kickstand would be nice and some side controlled too.

 

[JayMysterio]

It has quite mixed reviews on Amazon.

And why don’t these things have a trackpad? Seems that would be a good idea so you don’t need to touch the screen when the keyboard is in use.

At the time of the Brydge keyboard creation you have to remember IOS 13 wasn't out, so there wouldn't have a been a logical reason for a trackpad. They are working on a version now though. Since I have the latest one though, I can't see myself shelling out for another so soon.

 

[booksbooks]

@booksbooks You’ve found something that works for you and you’re passionate about it. I applaud you, good job!

I, however, would NOT want a kickstand on my iPad.. it simply doesn’t work for my use case. I would likely stop buying iPads if Apple were to add a kickstand. That is how passionate I am about NOT having a kickstand.

Is it fair for you and I to assume that our opposite opinions and use cases would work best for everyone? Absolutely not. And, yes, despite what you want to believe, these are opinions. Without intimate details we simply cannot assume what is best for someone else because we would be moving forward lacking vital information.. and that is how mistakes are made.

One person’s “better” is another person’s “worse”. One person’s “cumbersome” is another person’s “simple”. One person’s “waste” is another person’s “efficient”.

Opinions are good for each of us, but they aren’t good enough to press onto people.

@booksbooks You’ve found something that works for you and you’re passionate about it. I applaud you, good job!

I, however, would NOT want a kickstand on my iPad.. it simply doesn’t work for my use case. I would likely stop buying iPads if Apple were to add a kickstand. That is how passionate I am about NOT having a kickstand.

Is it fair for you and I to assume that our opposite opinions and use cases would work best for everyone? Absolutely not. And, yes, despite what you want to believe, these are opinions. Without intimate details we simply cannot assume what is best for someone else because we would be moving forward lacking vital information.. and that is how mistakes are made.

One person’s “better” is another person’s “worse”. One person’s “cumbersome” is another person’s “simple”. One person’s “waste” is another person’s “efficient”.

Opinions are good for each of us, but they aren’t good enough to press onto people.

Not opinions which is a strawmen you erect and has been pointed out many times. Implicit in your discourse is that you erroneously presuppose that Apple is unable to design a built in kickstand that disappears into the device when not in use and one that doesn’t add material weight or thickness to the iPad.

 

[Ethosik]

Exactly. My needs for the iPad Pro will not be the same as others. Keeping it simple though, allows for smaller companies or even myself to create niche products to meet those needs. Products or needs that Apple or Microsoft can't be expected to meet, because they need to produce a product for everyone.

While a kickstand maybe great to the OP, it isn't sufficient for me. So a product like this is appealing to me.

Why would Apple spend the money for a kickstand that I or others may or may not use?

But a third party may see it's necessity, and step in create something that will specifically fill the needs of myself and one or two thousand others.

What product is that? I’m looking for a nice drawing setup and that looks nice.