iPad Pro iPad design: needs to significantly evolve. Surface Pro X has it beat.

[AxiomaticRubric]

• The kickstand. The iPad's lack of a kickstand is now at a point to be a detriment to it. Apple is trying to sell it as the only computer you'll need for a target market, but it certainly cannot function like that out of the box in terms of being a laptop replacement for those that it may do that for. And the third party options are pretty ridiculous: awkward and compromised, and particularly lacking in the degrees of freedom of the built-in Surface Pro kickstand. This latter kickstand is what fuels artists to create on the device... Apple is summarily beaten here in a big way.

I have to disagree with you regarding third party options. The Brydge bluetooth keyboards are fantastic and go a long way to make the iPad more like a touch-enabled MacBook, complete with iPadOS function keys and backlighting.

 

[aevan]

Nothing to do with specs. Post data/evidence to support your claim: “But the fact is that many artists and people who really pay attention to this stuff generally agree that the Pencil is superior.”

Line wobble. 11ms vs 21ms lag.

 

[DNichter]

I don't agree. The new iPad Pro design is perfect in my eyes. A kickstand would be useful, but not really necessary since there are plenty of cases to do the same thing. In the end, it all comes down to the OS and Apps, and Apple/iOS has Microsoft beat in that area.

 

[booksbooks]

Line wobble. 11ms vs 21ms lag.

I will repeat that until you keep asking that question.

Software largely defines the experience. Prove and demonstrate your claim.
[automerge]1571713196[/automerge]

I don't agree. The new iPad Pro design is perfect in my eyes. A kickstand would be useful, but not really necessary since there are plenty of cases to do the same thing. In the end, it all comes down to the OS and Apps, and Apple/iOS has Microsoft beat in that area.

If there are plenty of cases that do the same thing, why is that better? You’re now buying another thing to stick onto the device, and one that can add significant weight and girth to it.
[automerge]1571713299[/automerge]

I mean, if you want a kickstand. I don't want a kickstand on my tablet. How is that not a personal, subjective opinion? It's totally valid if you want one, sure. But it's a matter of preference. I prefer a thinner device that I can attach a cover to - I love how I can take off my Smart Folio whenever I want, and use it to elevate my iPad when I need to.

So, the SPX does not have the iPad Pro beat in terms of a kickstand, because having it is actually a negative for some.

As for other things, well, we'll have to see how it fares in the really important things: screen quality, performance, stylus input, battery life, etc. We still don't know, so, um, yeah - at least wait until it's out, ok? Then you can at least pretend you're objective.

Why is that better? You’re now buying another thing to stick onto the device, and one that can add significant weight and girth to it.

 

[akash.nu]

Software largely defines the experience. Prove and demonstrate your claim.
[automerge]1571713196[/automerge]


If there are plenty of cases that do the same thing, why is that better? You’re now buying another thing to stick onto the device, and one that can add significant weight and girth to it.
[automerge]1571713299[/automerge]


Why is that better? You’re now buying another thing to stick onto the device, and one that can add significant weight and girth to it.

I guess it’s better because it’s not always there. When not required the whole package is thinner and not everyone requires a tablet to be propped up always for their usage. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[DNichter]

Software largely defines the experience. Prove and demonstrate your claim.
[automerge]1571713196[/automerge]


If there are plenty of cases that do the same thing, why is that better? You’re now buying another thing to stick onto the device, and one that can add significant weight and girth to it.
[automerge]1571713299[/automerge]


Why is that better? You’re now buying another thing to stick onto the device, and one that can add significant weight and girth to it.

It may not be "better" for some, but it really comes down to the user. I wouldn't want a kickstand so I am glad Apple doesn't make it mandatory. I am sure some agree. For others, they can buy a case that does the same thing. Best of both worlds.

 

[booksbooks]

It may not be "better" for some, but it really comes down to the user. I wouldn't want a kickstand so I am glad Apple doesn't make it mandatory. I am sure some agree. For others, they can buy a case that does the same thing. Best of both worlds.

Cases can be expensive, heavy, and thick. For others, they want the kickstand built in.

 

[DNichter]

Cases can be expensive, heavy, and thick. For others, they want the kickstand built in.

Well it's a good thing we have choice then. I don't feel that Apple needs to add a kickstand to their device, it's already a better product in every way compared to the Surface.

 

[TopherMan12]

Cases can be expensive, heavy, and thick. For others, they want the kickstand built in.

Cases can be cheap, light, and thin too. Such as the one I bought.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XT2Y8K9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[booksbooks]

Well it's a good thing we have choice then. I don't feel that Apple needs to add a kickstand to their device, it's already a better product in every way compared to the Surface.

Why is it a better product in every way. Also, this thread is mostly focused on the SP X.
[automerge]1571836652[/automerge]

Cases can be cheap, light, and thin too. Such as the one I bought.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XT2Y8K9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

9.7” and no keyboard with one degree of freedom...

How much does it weigh.

 

[TopherMan12]

Why is it a better product in every way. Also, this thread is mostly focused on the SP X.
[automerge]1571836652[/automerge]


9.7” and no keyboard with one degree of freedom...

How much does it weigh.

Here is the 12.9" version. Weighs 5 ounces. This is just one example of the many many options for cases that are cheap, light, and thin. These are the criteria you listed for a case.

https://www.amazon.com/ProCase-Ligh...ipad+pro&qid=1571837015&s=electronics&sr=1-11

The Apple Smart Keyboard adds stand capability so that is irrelevant as keyboards are optional on both. Either way, I don't see a built-in kickstand being a huge factor when comparing iPad and Surface.

 

[DNichter]

Why is it a better product in every way. Also, this thread is mostly focused on the SP X.
[automerge]1571836652[/automerge]


9.7” and no keyboard with one degree of freedom...

How much does it weigh.

Better design, apps, input, screen, developer support, performance, ecosystem, security, and support. The Surface Pro X is a nice machine, but it's still just another Windows laptop. It doesn't really compare to the iPad Pro in any way. The only "advantage" is that you can use old software.

 

[jjudson]

It's good for Apple to have aggressive competition. If they follow the usual pattern, they will:

• Pooh-pooh the Surface Pro features as un-needed and useless
• Eventually design their own version of these features
• Announce them at a Mac event as being ground-breaking and innovative and: Aren't you glad Apple invented them?

That said, I like what the new Surface Pro offers, but playing with the stylus turned me off. There's a noticeable lag as compared to the Apple Pencil. I agree that the keyboard is really awesome. Apple could certainly learn something from Microsoft here.

The screens between the two devices are where they part most incrementally. The Surface Pro screen is less bright, and although the resolution is basically the same, the iPad Pro screen is brighter, crisper, has a deeper color profile, and is easier on the eyes. As this is the main feature of a tablet device -- and the main portal for usage -- the difference pushes the iPad's interactivity over the top between the two.

 

[TopherMan12]

Better design, apps, input, screen, developer support, performance, ecosystem, security, and support. The Surface Pro X is a nice machine, but it's still just another Windows laptop. It doesn't really compare to the iPad Pro in any way. The only "advantage" is that you can use old software.

Agree. I had a Surface Pro and went back to iPad. Surface is a laptop with a tacked on tablet mode that just isn't as smooth as iPad. And the apps for Surface (I mean apps designed explicitly for Surface) are just not there. Windows apps store is notoriously lacking.

 

[DNichter]

It's good for Apple to have aggressive competition. If they follow the usual pattern, they will:

• Pooh-pooh the Surface Pro features as un-needed and useless
• Eventually design their own version of these features
• Announce them at a Mac event as being ground-breaking and innovative and: Aren't you glad Apple invented them?

That said, I like what the new Surface Pro offers, but playing with the stylus turned me off. There's a noticeable lag as compared to the Apple Pencil. I agree that the keyboard is really awesome. Apple could certainly learn something from Microsoft here.

What are some of the features that you feel Apple will adopt to the iPad Pro?

 

[booksbooks]

Here is the 12.9" version. Weighs 5 ounces. This is just one example of the many many options for cases that are cheap, light, and thin. These are the criteria you listed for a case.

https://www.amazon.com/ProCase-Ligh...ipad+pro&qid=1571837015&s=electronics&sr=1-11

The Apple Smart Keyboard adds stand capability so that is irrelevant as keyboards are optional on both. Either way, I don't see a built-in kickstand being a huge factor when comparing iPad and Surface.

The Surface Pro X weighs ~.3 lbs more than the iPad Pro 12.9. The case you mention above weighs ~.3 lbs. However, it adds thickness to the device, only has one degree of freedom, and can be cumbersome when handling/holding the device. The SPX does not require an aftermarket case and has a built-in kickstand with many degrees of freedom. Therefore, on this analysis, the SPX built-in kickstand is better.

 

[jjudson]

The Surface Pro X weighs ~.3 lbs more than the iPad Pro 12.9. The case you mention above weighs ~.3 lbs. However, it adds thickness to the device, only has one degree of freedom, and can be cumbersome when handling/holding the device.

I, for one, am totally cool with a thicker, more durable device that weighs slightly more. I think one of the more disastrous decisions that Apple has made has been to make these things overly thin and light.

These tablets are too big to be comfortable laying in bed reading and holding them at any weight. I have a Kindle for that.

I vote for thicker, less camera, and toughened up.

 

[TopherMan12]

The Surface Pro X weighs ~.3 lbs more than the iPad Pro 12.9. The case you mention above weighs ~.3 lbs. However, it adds thickness to the device, only has one degree of freedom, and can be cumbersome when handling/holding the device. The SPX does not require an aftermarket case and has a built-in kickstand with many degrees of freedom. Therefore, on this analysis, the SPX built-in kickstand is better.

Well, the case is very thin and yet still provides protection whereas the built-in kickstand does not. I don't find this case cumbersome at all. It is actually less cumbersome setting it up to stand than having to pop out the kickstand on the Surface.

You are free to your opinion that the built-in kickstand is better. The point I made is that cheap, thin, and light case options are available for iPad.

 

[booksbooks]

Well, the case is very thin and yet still provides protection whereas the built-in kickstand does not. I don't find this case cumbersome at all. It is actually less cumbersome setting it up to stand than having to pop out the kickstand on the Surface.

You are free to your opinion that the built-in kickstand is better. The point I made is that cheap, thin, and light case options are available for iPad.

How is the case you mention less cumbersome setting up the iPad to stand than having to pop out the kickstand on the Surface?

 

[TopherMan12]

How is the case you mention less cumbersome setting up the iPad to stand than having to pop out the kickstand on the Surface?

Because there is nothing to pop out. It simply folds into place. Also, the hinges on the Surface Pro can wear and break. That *can be* an additional concern for the Surface.

 

[Digitalguy]

Better design, apps, input, screen, developer support, performance, ecosystem, security, and support. The Surface Pro X is a nice machine, but it's still just another Windows laptop. It doesn't really compare to the iPad Pro in any way. The only "advantage" is that you can use old software.

Unfortunately it’s not that simple as you make it to be... I would gladly move to ipads pro for everything but they are far from being able to replace laptops professionally... File management is still miles away and those old apps (like MS Office apps) are also miles away from the ipad apps. Plus the countless business apps that simply do not exist for IpadOS (and many do not even exist for MacOS to be honest, but at least on mac you can either run windows, which is a bad idea, or run them in a virtual machine, which is not an option for ipad).

 

[stephenschimpf]

Can I run iOS or iPadOS on the Surface Pro X? If not, then it’s little more than dumpster fodder to me. It could have the best hardware on the planet, but if I can’t seamlessly integrate it into my other devices then it’s of no use.

That's how I feel about Android phones. It doesn't matter how good the hardware is if it runs Android instead of iOS.

 

[muzzy996]

I find this debate interesting/amusing at times. Kind of ironic in a way too because I happen to have the front of my Gen 2 iPP 12.9 protected with the Smart Keyboard and the back of it using the back piece of a Logitech keyboard/case combo. The Logitech back adds thickness for sure but because it provides a loop for the pencil and a kickstand for my iPP I keep it on there. It's a compromise that I make to get the flexibility both ways - the ASK is more lap friendly, the kickstand is helpful in key situations. The kickstand I love during my morning routines, I can detach the ASK and expand the kickstand and drop the ipad over a towel rack to play video blogs while I shave in the morning and then transition to the kitchen and just stand the ipad on the counter while making breakfast.
[automerge]1571866359[/automerge]

That's how I feel about Android phones. It doesn't matter how good the hardware is if it runs Android instead of iOS.

Yeah this is natural, a subjective thing really. I happen to abhor iPhones while loving my Android phone and iPad. The challenges in getting workflows to work on multiple platforms is worth it in my opinion to get the features that I want.

 

[Rafterman]

The Pro X looks interesting, but...no WiFi 6 (AX) and it comes with Windows Home, not Pro. Weak. I expect the next iPad Pro to have Wifi AX, like the iPhone does.

 

[AustinIllini]

The kickstand is indicative of a design flaw. I hope to God Apple never needs it.

IMHO, iPad Pro is a much better device all around