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UBS28

macrumors 68030
Oct 2, 2012
2,893
2,340
IMO Apple need to do something to facilitate the unleashing of the power of the iPad. For all the multitude of reasons listed in this thread, and no doubt others, the iPad with an M1 processor is a powerful sportscar currently limited to being driven in a 20-zone.

This will never happen. The only way would be for Apple to open up iOS, and this is something Apple will never do, since Apple does not allow jailbreaking.

Also on MAC, you clearly see the garbage that the App Store is and why you should never buy something from there, as the App Store version of the apps sucks. Better "side-load" it from the developer directly to get the full version as result of Apple policies that the App Store version has to adhere to.
 
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MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,174
3,826
Lancashire UK
Probably. And this is the reason why I'm still sat here rocking a prehistoric mk1 iPad Air and see literally no purpose to upgrade it, and have next to no interest in future models. Meanwhile in Mac-land i'm eyeing-up what's currently on offer and eagerly awaiting the Spring event to see if they announce any goodies which might change my life.
 

lezmace

macrumors regular
Jul 26, 2011
134
90
I always tried and wanted to use the iPad more in my workflow. But it always lacked in many ways.
For me: Mac(Book) and iPhone is the best combo. I still have an iPad mini 5 for some media consumption. I gave my iPad Pro to my wife.
 
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alecgold

macrumors 65816
Oct 11, 2007
1,490
1,044
NLD
It’s time for a touch-screen Mac with a detachable keyboard. It can look like the iPad Pro (but smaller bezels) but run full mac firmware and run iPad apps, too. That’s great. Apple doesn’t know what they’re missing. This would be very profitable!
I’m not sure it would be great.
macOS isn’t suited for fingers and to always use a pencil is really annoying IMHO.

But, I’m writing this on the keyboard of my MacBook Pro while looking at my 11” iPad Pro. This new feature in 12.3/15.4 is really really great. I can pick up my iPP from it’s keyboard and read pages. I can use the iPP as a second screen to watch Slack while working on my MBP. When I’m at home I have a 27” screen attached and use the big screen for excels and/or multiple A4 documents, while my MBP screen has email or something else I’m using open. When I’m on the go the 14” and 11” screen are a really nice combo.

So while I would update to a developers account to test an iPadOS that is much more MacOS (that would enable me to really have everything at my fingertips while just having an iPad with me), this update with universal control is really something.
 

Mackilroy

macrumors 601
Jun 29, 2006
4,053
898
Only in part. Currently the OS is too basic and inflexible to effectively run the pro-grade apps I listed. So that's an Apple thing.
I think your perception of iPadOS as crippled is coloring your view here. You noted that you had no experience with Procreate or Shapr3D; in my opinion, the existence and power of those two apps contradicts your belief that the OS is too basic. So that’s a developer thing.
That's was as much an MS marketing decision to look after its own interests, as any thing else.

I'd go further and say most people get away with using just a phone these days.
What makes you think that it couldn’t be a marketing decision now, given the existence of the Surface line?

Precisely. More complex isn’t always better.

Maybe it's a catch-22: developers of Mac/PC pro-grade productivity apps won't develop iPad equivalents because they don't think there's a market because of the iPad's image as a media consumption device that you can draw pretty pictures on with a pencil. Professional creators won't switch from Mac/PC to an iPad because the apps they're trained to use don't exist on iPadOS. If that's the case then Apple can help to break the deadlock by bringing its pro-grade productivity software to the iPad. But for that to happen iPadOS needs a full overhaul, which I don't think they'll do because they don't want to blur the lines further between iPadOS vs MacOS.
Perhaps they’re protecting their own cash cows - it takes bravery or desperation to make a leap into the unknown. Lol, ‘pretty pictures.’ Nice superiority complex. I’ll note there’s a large number of artists who use iPads professionally, simply because they’re so powerful; and iPads are used in business in many other fields. Your perception of the tablet as a media consumption device only is purely in your head and nowhere else. That said, I agree, Apple likely won’t fully overhaul iPadOS, because there’s no point in doing so to please a handful of users who want one device to do everything, when they’ll make more money by having separate hardware lines. You’ll have to convince them they’ll make more money the other way, and that’s a massive challenge.
 
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MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,174
3,826
Lancashire UK
I think your perception of iPadOS as crippled is coloring your view here. You noted that you had no experience with Procreate or Shapr3D; in my opinion, the existence and power of those two apps contradicts your belief that the OS is too basic. So that’s a developer thing.
I have used ProCreate. It runs absolutely fine on my prehistoric mk1 iPad Air, and demands the computing power of a 1980's Casio calculator, compared to what the M1 is capable of.

What makes you think that it couldn’t be a marketing decision now, given the existence of the Surface line?
I didn't say that, nor meant to infer that, it couldn't.

Lol, ‘pretty pictures.’ Nice superiority complex. I’ll note there’s a large number of artists who use iPads professionally, simply because they’re so powerful; and iPads are used in business in many other fields. Your perception of the tablet as a media consumption device only is purely in your head and nowhere else.
What motive do you think I have, to have a superiority complex? Maybe re-read what I typed: I offered the thesis as a possible reason why developers of pro-grade productivity apps don't release iPad equivalents for their Mac and Windows apps, which creates a catch-22 whereby pro users don't migrate from a Mac/PC because the software isn't there, and so the circle goes round. I didn't say it was my opinion. Someone else also mentioned the issue regarding it being a very closed platform where apps can only be bought and installed via the App Store; I hadn't considered that, but that's very valid too.

If you fully read all my posts rather than cherry-pick quotes from the sentences which trigger you, you'll see I have huge respect for the iPad hardware, and all I'm screaming for here is for the OS and apps to catch up.

Your perception of the tablet as a media consumption device only is purely in your head and nowhere else.
Presumably also in the heads of everyone in this thread who complain about having to reach for the nearest PC or Mac as soon as they need to do something that isn't consuming media or 'drawing pretty pictures'.
 
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pianostar9

macrumors regular
Oh I contemplated that as well. I'm still on 14.5.1 so it's possible but I didn't find any tweaks that would make me jailbreak the iPad. I don't like theming stuff so I am mostly interested in the utility tweaks. I'm open to suggestions :)

I do have a side-loading service, idk if it's against rules to name them so I will not. That basically covers somewhat the need for the jailbreak

I mostly used a sideloaded tweaked youtube app and a torrent client. That torrent client is a hit and miss as well.

After that dive into the sideloading world, I searched if i could load any other operating system on it, virtualisation I mean. There does exist an app for it but it's a pain to use. I saw that snazzylabs video on it, he goes quite deep on it.

On reading about this stuff I came to know that iPad doesn't even let the apps full utilise the 8gb of ram which is quite a shame. Maybe it could have been fixed on the 15? Idk. So knowing this, 16gb ram model of the iPad is quite "literally" useless if one is just buying the upper model for the ram. Sorry I went on a rant lol
You might want to just to untether if you’re on 14.5.1 - never have to worry about signing again!

You can also mess with those single-app RAM limits if you want - definitely would help if you decide to use something like UTM
 
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Cape Dave

macrumors 68020
Nov 16, 2012
2,389
1,700
Northeast
I’m not sure it would be great.
macOS isn’t suited for fingers and to always use a pencil is really annoying IMHO.

But, I’m writing this on the keyboard of my MacBook Pro while looking at my 11” iPad Pro. This new feature in 12.3/15.4 is really really great. I can pick up my iPP from it’s keyboard and read pages. I can use the iPP as a second screen to watch Slack while working on my MBP. When I’m at home I have a 27” screen attached and use the big screen for excels and/or multiple A4 documents, while my MBP screen has email or something else I’m using open. When I’m on the go the 14” and 11” screen are a really nice combo.

So while I would update to a developers account to test an iPadOS that is much more MacOS (that would enable me to really have everything at my fingertips while just having an iPad with me), this update with universal control is really something.
Oh yeah, I forgot. Fingers on MacOS would be the worst experience ever.
 

Mackilroy

macrumors 601
Jun 29, 2006
4,053
898
I have used ProCreate. It runs absolutely fine on my prehistoric mk1 iPad Air, and demands the computing power of a 1980's Casio calculator, compared to what the M1 is capable of.
If you’ve used Procreate, then you should be aware more powerful models both offer a smoother experience and more layers. That you aren’t suggests you either haven’t used it, or at most you doodle, which is probably why you think the iPad is only for consumption.
I didn't say that, nor meant to infer that, it couldn't.
Regardless, there are more possibilities than you admit exist.

What motive do you think I have, to have a superiority complex? Maybe re-read what I typed: I offered the thesis as a possible reason why developers of pro-grade productivity apps don't release iPad equivalents for their Mac and Windows apps, which creates a catch-22 whereby pro users don't migrate from a Mac/PC because the software isn't there, and so the circle goes round. I didn't say it was my opinion. Someone else also mentioned the issue regarding it being a very closed platform where apps can only be bought and installed via the App Store; I hadn't considered that, but that's very valid too.
I don’t know. Whether you intend to or not, the language you choose comes off that way. You also have a narrow view of what ‘pro’ users do, which essentially boils down to: ‘whatever I think is pro,’ never mind everything people use it for that doesn’t fit what you envision.

If you fully read all my posts rather than cherry-pick quotes from the sentences which trigger you, you'll see I have huge respect for the iPad hardware, and all I'm screaming for here is for the OS and apps to catch up.
Hahaha, triggered. What a joke. Sentences like that, by the way, are exemplary of you having a superiority complex. I fully read all of your posts, and I know what you’re hoping for. I just disagree that the iPad is crippled because it doesn’t do precisely what you want.

Presumably also in the heads of everyone in this thread who complain about having to reach for the nearest PC or Mac as soon as they need to do something that isn't consuming media or 'drawing pretty pictures'.
I do plenty with my iPad that isn’t consuming media or drawing pretty pictures. That you fail to imagine use cases aside from that is your own fault. I know of engineering firms that use iPads in their manufacturing shops. I know doctors who use iPads for medical work. I know pilots who use them for aviation. I know teachers who use them for school. I know professional musicians who incorporate iPads into their work. I could go on, but I think that makes my point.
 

MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,174
3,826
Lancashire UK
If you’ve used Procreate, then you should be aware more powerful models both offer a smoother experience and more layers. That you aren’t suggests you either haven’t used it, or at most you doodle, which is probably why you think the iPad is only for consumption.

Regardless, there are more possibilities than you admit exist.


I don’t know. Whether you intend to or not, the language you choose comes off that way. You also have a narrow view of what ‘pro’ users do, which essentially boils down to: ‘whatever I think is pro,’ never mind everything people use it for that doesn’t fit what you envision.


Hahaha, triggered. What a joke. Sentences like that, by the way, are exemplary of you having a superiority complex. I fully read all of your posts, and I know what you’re hoping for. I just disagree that the iPad is crippled because it doesn’t do precisely what you want.
You're completely missing my point.

Installing the M1 chip in an iPad moved the iPad's potential capabilities into a territory which literally none of the existing apps available for it make use of, nor can its OS. I theorised why that might be the case: that overall it is viewed (by developers) as a device for consuming content and running amateur-grade apps, so they literally don't bother. May be right, may be wrong. It was just my back-of-a-cig-packet thoughts on the matter.

Obviously, my opinion is constrained by the limits of my own experience. So is yours. So is everyone's. That doesn't mean I have a superiority complex regarding my particular purposes. But it does rank me among the thousands of potential users who won't blow money on an expensive range-topping iPad because my ten year old neanderthal Macbook Pro can do more (for me), because its OS, and the apps I can run on it, are exponentially more powerful, even though the brain inside isn't.

That's my point.

I do plenty with my iPad that isn’t consuming media or drawing pretty pictures. That you fail to imagine use cases aside from that is your own fault. I know of engineering firms that use iPads in their manufacturing shops. I know doctors who use iPads for medical work. I know pilots who use them for aviation. I know teachers who use them for school. I know professional musicians who incorporate iPads into their work. I could go on, but I think that makes my point.
I know doctors who use a pen and a notepad. Doesn't make the technology advanced. Just means it suits their needs.
 

bluespark

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2009
3,169
4,123
Chicago
I use my iPad Pro (11") for all sorts of things, but I still agree with much of this. At this point, the iPad OS seems like a giant underpowered mess. The various features grafted onto the OS make it surprisingly complex to use in many ways, but it still falls short on tasks that the hardware could easily handle. It seems like Apple is trying to keep it from competing with the Mac, which is the opposite of how Apple used to manage different product lines/teams, and ends up needlessly kneecapping the iPad's potential.

I'd be unfair, though, if I didn't also mention some of the things the iPad does uniquely well. For drawing, note taking, and manipulating images (etc.) by touch, there's nothing better. And it's a great package from a purely hardware perspective.
 

norwaypianoman

macrumors regular
Dec 16, 2008
246
93
Norway
The iPad is not for everyone.

It is an media input machine.

For me, it is only to consume movies, games, mail and safari.

Other than that, using it as a music studio, has never worked for me. So, it is basically a toy, which I wish was not a toy. And a commercial frame, which I wish was more productive.

If only it had a phone app, I could use it as an iphone. So I have decided not to use iPad for the next 8 years. But, of course - the use of iPad is very individual, but the iPad is not for everyone.
 

Mackilroy

macrumors 601
Jun 29, 2006
4,053
898
You're completely missing my point.

Installing the M1 chip in an iPad moved the iPad's potential capabilities into a territory which literally none of the existing apps available for it make use of, nor can its OS. I theorised why that might be the case: that overall it is viewed (by developers) as a device for consuming content and running amateur-grade apps, so they literally don't bother. May be right, may be wrong. It was just my back-of-a-cig-packet thoughts on the matter.
You’re shifting the goalposts. As Procreate does make use of the M1 chip, you’re also incorrect in claiming none of the existing apps can make use of it.

Obviously, my opinion is constrained by the limits of my own experience. So is yours. So is everyone's. That doesn't mean I have a superiority complex regarding my particular purposes. But it does rank me among the thousands of potential users who won't blow money on an expensive range-topping iPad because my ten year old neanderthal Macbook Pro can do more (for me), because its OS, and the apps I can run on it, are exponentially more powerful, even though the brain inside isn't.
Your superiority complex isn’t about your purposes, it’s about your attitude towards others and how you communicate. I don’t care that you’re not going to buy a new iPad. If you never buy another one, so what? What does it matter to anyone but you?

I know doctors who use a pen and a notepad. Doesn't make the technology advanced. Just means it suits their needs.
You’re shifting the goalposts. Technology doesn’t need to be advanced to be useful or professional. I think I’ll pass on replying to you again here; we evidently aren’t going to agree, and you’re inconsistent about what you’re debating.
 

MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,174
3,826
Lancashire UK
Maybe we just have a language barrier (obviously I've no idea where you come from or what your native language is). It seems pretty clear to me the point I'm making, and presumably also to the people who have reacted to my posts, and to others who are making a similar argument. The fact that some professionals use it for their work doesn't inherently mean it runs pro-grade apps. In almost all instances except drawing (edit: and notetaking as someone else said), iPad apps are inferior to their Mac/PC counterparts. And that's the frustrating part.

But it's ok. Enjoy your iPad. :)
 
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iPaduser1980

macrumors newbie
Jan 26, 2022
3
9
India
I use my iPad Pro mostly as a reading device. To read books, browse the Internet, read and post on forums (Currently posting this from my iPad Pro). I also watch a lot of YouTube videos on my iPad. When I need to do some extended typing, I use my iMac, although I can type on the iPad if I need to. When I used to commute to work, I managed to get a fair amount of work done on my iPad. I stopped using laptops when the iPad Pro came out, and I doubt I'll buy another laptop again. I always found the laptop keyboard to get in the way when I wanted to just read. I loved the original iPad when it first came out, and the bigger iPad Pro is even better. For me, the iPad is a device I pick up first thing in the morning, and I don't put it down unless I'm eating, or go for a walk, or sit down at the iMac to type something.

As for file management, I use an app called FileBrowser. It's a lot better than Apple's File app, and has been around since the App Store first opened.
all of that and its great for keeping on the kitchen counter, reading Comics, making notes, digital planning, not to mention drawing/painting with the pencil. I love my m1 pro 11. A laptop cannot compete in use cases where the iPad shines.
 

iPaduser1980

macrumors newbie
Jan 26, 2022
3
9
India
Maybe we just have a language barrier (obviously I've no idea where you come from or what your native language is). It seems pretty clear to me the point I'm making, and presumably also to the people who have reacted to my posts, and to others who are making a similar argument. The fact that some professionals use it for their work doesn't inherently mean it runs pro-grade apps. In almost all instances except drawing (edit: and notetaking as someone else said), iPad apps are inferior to their Mac/PC counterparts. And that's the frustrating part.

But it's ok. Enjoy your iPad. :)
Seems like you’re hung up on the M1 chip. Just because it’s in there doesn’t mean it MUST run pro apps. It also runs consumer apps really, really fast. I see a big improvement in video and photo editing speed compared to my previous iPad (and even my older laptop) and all of that in a much more convenient form factor. I have a feeling all the griping in this thread is by people who saw the M1 chip and assumed it’s the equivalent of an M1 based laptop, which it’s clearly not.
 

James Godfrey

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2011
2,068
1,710
The problem with iPad is a lack of proper competitors. Apple is basically doing what Intel did when they were #1 and AMD couldn't even catch up with their FX CPUs. No real need to improve and especially if it potentially takes away from mac sales as someone mentioned. It's because of AMD Ryzen that we finally got something more than 4 core/8 threads after almost a decade of stagnation.

If the iphone was in a similar position - we'd still have 3.5" iphones and no other options.
Exactly this 👆

Until Apple have some real competition in the market, I doubt we will see much of a shift in direction
 

MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,174
3,826
Lancashire UK
Seems like you’re hung up on the M1 chip. Just because it’s in there doesn’t mean it MUST run pro apps. It also runs consumer apps really, really fast. I see a big improvement in video and photo editing speed compared to my previous iPad (and even my older laptop) and all of that in a much more convenient form factor. I have a feeling all the griping in this thread is by people who saw the M1 chip and assumed it’s the equivalent of an M1 based laptop, which it’s clearly not.
Yeah I'd just like to see more pro-grade apps, and see it have a better OS. That functionality seems to be held back intentionally by Apple, as others have said. The M1 is such a hugely powerful processor, but by and large the options to run apps that mimmick the power of their Pc/Mac equivalents are few and far between.

Couple of pages back I used the analogy that Apple have stuck a sportscar's engine into a car that they've intentionally limited to 20mph. I still feel that way.

I know that at the end of the day this is all just my opinion, and any other opinions are just as valid. I've certainly at no point intended to come across as 'superior'. But seeing that only one person with a low feedback feels I came across as holier than thou, I'll make the assumption that hopefully most people haven't interpreted my posts that way, but if they have, it was definitely not intended. :)
 

iPaduser1980

macrumors newbie
Jan 26, 2022
3
9
India
Yeah I'd just like to see more pro-grade apps, and see it have a better OS. That functionality seems to be held back intentionally by Apple, as others have said. The M1 is such a hugely powerful processor, but by and large the options to run apps that mimmick the power of their Pc/Mac equivalents are few and far between.

Couple of pages back I used the analogy that Apple have stuck a sportscar's engine into a car that they've intentionally limited to 20mph. I still feel that way.

I know that at the end of the day this is all just my opinion, and any other opinions are just as valid. I've certainly at no point intended to come across as 'superior'. But seeing that only one person with a low feedback feels I came across as holier than thou, I'll make the assumption that hopefully most people haven't interpreted my posts that way. :)
my opinion - expecting the iPad to run “pro” apps that “mimic” pc apps just just because it has an M1 processor is where I feel people are going wrong. It’s a recipe for frustration, if ever there was one. The iPad isn’t built to mimic the mac, it’s built to be an iPad and Apple has shoved in the fastest processor they could for good measure.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,994
34,283
Seattle WA
Yeah I'd just like to see more pro-grade apps, and see it have a better OS. That functionality seems to be held back intentionally by Apple, as others have said. The M1 is such a hugely powerful processor, but by and large the options to run apps that mimmick the power of their Pc/Mac equivalents are few and far between.

Couple of pages back I used the analogy that Apple have stuck a sportscar's engine into a car that they've intentionally limited to 20mph. I still feel that way.

I know that at the end of the day this is all just my opinion, and any other opinions are just as valid. I've certainly at no point intended to come across as 'superior'. But seeing that only one person with a low feedback feels I came across as holier than thou, I'll make the assumption that hopefully most people haven't interpreted my posts that way, but if they have, it was definitely not intended. :)

Do vendors of pro-grade apps project enough of a return on investment to justify putting and maintaining their products on tablets? My guess is that a lot of them just don't see the projected ROI as being significant enough to invest and divert the resources required; the tablet market is dwarfed by the laptop and desktop markets.
 

canyonblue737

macrumors 68020
Jan 10, 2005
2,229
2,785
Now, this will depend on the individual use case but I want to share my experience.

I bought iPad Pro 12.9 M1 6 months ago, I had the Air 2 previously. Initially I used to use it as a multimedia/Youtube device and was so impressed by the display and speakers. But as I bought the MacBook Pro 16, the use case of iPad Pro has completely diminished for me.

I mostly use my laptop and don't even pick up my iPad Pro anymore. I knew beforehand that iPad was severely limited in software. I don't know why this even exists anymore. Even the baseline MacBook Air has good value and could do heck more than the iPad.

Most of my gripes are with the software, it just cannot do much. It doesn't even have a good video player where I can watch local dolby vision content, the ones on the App Store are unnecessarily expensive. On my MacBook I can use Subler to convert an mkv DV file with 4-5 clicks and watch it on the QuickTime player. Everything is unnecessarily complicated on the iPad.

The files app is a hot mess as well on iPadOS 14. I haven't upgraded to the 15 as I have read posts about the battery life gone down to the *******. There isn't even the progress bar for copying/pasting files to and from the iPad and It sometimes fails when doing that. Every time I use the files app, I fold my hand and pray for it to go smoothly. The widgets on the iPadOS 15 has messed up the spacing on the home screen as well. Instead of adding some features the update has been an annoyance for the users. ymmv.

I am not an artist or a gamer. I did thought about picking up the Apple Pencil for the heck of it but I read forum posts about how it doesn't jive well with screen protectors so I just gave up on that idea.

Then I thought I could use it to read books but this damn thing is not that easy to hold or read on without getting fatigued eyes and hands.

It's a shame that such a good hardware is just completely hampered by the bad software experience.

For me, this has been the most regretful purchase I have ever made in my life. I am thinking about selling it but I don't know if it will fetch any good value where I live. I wished I had purchased a Mac mini or the Air instead of the iPad. Another Mac could have actually helped me in web development or other hobbies that I like exploring from time to time.

I sometimes feel the same but it really does depend on the use case. As someone who travels heavily I still find magic in using my iPad Pro in one hand, moments after I magnetically detached it from its smart keyboard only to then restore it to a laptop form later when needed. A conventional laptop comes with the awkward issues laptops always have had... watching Netflix in a hotel bed with a laptop isn't nearly as nice as with the iPad etc.

That said I own BOTH like you (a M1 Air + iPad Pro) and I find myself torn on which to take sometimes because I don't travel with both. In general I stick to the iPad still and leave the Macbook at home but I do miss it.
 
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