Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPad Mini getting destroyed by Nexus 7
- Thread starter yth
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
So then you are saying that the money is on developing apps for iOS and not on Android? If you look at my post above: you'll see what I am talking about.
----------
I edited my post to show a few more examples.
I don't have one, but I've read about it, and it looks pretty good. I especially like the fact that these sorts of devices allow multiple devices on various platforms all connect and stream from them.
Wow, there is quite a difference between the Android and iOS tablet versions. I have heard about people complaining about this but have never seen it illustrated before. Thanks.
I agree that the iPad versions of those apps look better - especially because they support landscape mode, which you use in all your images, and the Android ones don't - but being able to find some apps that don't look as good doesn't mean that (a) the Android versions are unusable, or (b) there aren't a lot of Android apps which look just as good on tablets as their iOS counterparts.
It's important to note that scaling allows Android apps to look decent (or at least the same) on any size screen, whereas iOS looks like crap on anything but the screen for which it is intended. Hence, iOS developers have to redo apps to get them to look anything but terrible. Android developers don't have to do that. Thus, there is a push to get the iOS tablet version out which doesn't exist for the Android market. Also, note the crappy appearance of apps not updated to support the iPhone 5 - gotta love those black bars.
It's easy to pick and choose examples of apps that look bad on one platform or the other. That said, most apps look perfectly fine on the Android tablets, and many truly do use the additional space available.
Do they look as pretty from a design point of view? Generally, no. Do they look bad? Generally, no.
Actual content - movies, photos, articles, etc. - look a lot better on both my Nexus 7.2 (and any retina iPad) than they do on the mini. Once the mini goes retina, I'll like it as well. But I just can't stand the low-res screen now that I'm used to better ones. To me, that blockiness is as ugly as any app. Well, as many apps. Some are just atrocious.
Sure, if you cherry pick. There are also many apps that look great on Android tablets. Flipboard looks better on the Nexus 7 and the iPad 3/4 than the iPad mini, for example. Netflix looks better. And so on.
My main criticism of the iPad mini is the resolution of the screen. When that is fixed, I'll be happy. However, I'll still have a hard time justifying $559 for a 32GB LTE model when the N7.2 version is over $200 less. The $329 vs $229 16GB comparison fares better, although the build quality differences are narrowing significantly.
Just throwing this out there but a lot of my money/banking sites do not even have Android apps where they do have ones for the iPhone. That is the biggest difference I have noticed besides the equivalent apps on Android cost less than their Apple counterparts.
iPad screen ratio is way better, lower PPi or not.
Also, despite this rise in Android tablet popularity, there are still loads of apps that aren't optimised which sucks.
And you can whack as much power under the hood as you like, the OS is still juddery and slow at times. The mini is responsive even with a 3 year old chip, that's the difference with iOS.
Also, despite this rise in Android tablet popularity, there are still loads of apps that aren't optimised which sucks.
And you can whack as much power under the hood as you like, the OS is still juddery and slow at times. The mini is responsive even with a 3 year old chip, that's the difference with iOS.
I completely agree, and I still favor an iPad 3/4 over the Nexus for many things, but I don't favor the mini, as it's too little pad for too much money IMO. There are few if any examples of apps that look better on Android than iOS, and many apps that look better on iOS than Android. My point was just that most of the typical apps are adequate to good on Android, and being able to pay less to get to use them is a real plus (less for the device, often less for the apps).
----------
I've had zero slowness on the N7.2. None. And that's despite the fact that it's tossing around a lot more graphical data than the iPad mini.
----------
This is an important thing to note. Perhaps the new DRM hardware in the N7.2 might change this a bit, but absolutely, if you need an app to work, you need a device that supports that app.
And even today, there are still apps that are being released that are iPhone/iPad only. Look at Traktor DJ. On their support forums, people are begging them to release a Android version but the reason they state right now is that there are just too many Android devices that have too much lag when you do something. On a DJ app, you need the song to start immediately. The app works great on the iPad but on the a certain given Android tablet, it might take twos seconds for the song to start playing. This is why they say there is no Android version yet.
I was listening to a podcast that was talking about an app being released that will interact with a movie at a theater or something. They mentioned that it was iOS only.
Has far less to do with "look" and far MORE to do with usability and features. In many apps, devs build in more features and easier usability in the iPad specific apps.
ESPN Fantasy Football is my favorite example because the experience difference is so stark. The iPhone/Android app is fine - works well, lets you do most things. But then you get to the iPad version and its a completely different experience. Far more immersive, FantasyCast which lets you keep track of every game going on, all the matchups in your league all up-to-date stats.....its a completely different (re: better) experience.
On my 1st Gen N7, I got the same phone app just resized to be bigger. Woopdee freaking do. I could just as easily look at the app on my phone. Point being, tablets should have apps optimized and built specifically for them - PCs have their own apps which take advantage of more power and screen real estate. Why not tablets? In this regard, Apple is lightyears ahead (something like 400,000 iPad-specific apps) and is why the iPad mini still offers a better overall experience IMO.
Also, I had a terrible time with my N7 (got 2 replacements both because the display was coming up), things were not as smooth despite having more power than the iPad I had at the time and the 16:10 ratio is not appealing to me in a tablet.
EDIT: I don't think any non-iPhone 5 apps look "crappy" - rather they look exactly like they always have (not blown up or disproportionate in any way). And who gives a rats behind whether an app is only designed for a specific device - its only downloadable on that device (despite the fact that MANY devs build iPad/iPhone apps that work on both AND offer different layouts and feature sets on each - ya know, those apps with the '+' on them).
Again, this isn't about what looks "fine". Hey, if mediocre is what you're going for, then by all means have at your N7. I'm talking about offering an overall superior user EXPERIENCE. Something specs can't really attest to. And something, quite frankly, most Android users can't (or won't) comprehend.
Consider the Nook HD/HD+ until they sell out. Cheap, closer-to-4:3 aspect ration, micro SD slot, bootable to Android 4.2.2, great screen with fantastic resolution.
Not good deals a their original list prices, but amazing ones at their current prices. In 4.2.2, they're plenty fast.
Again, if there are apps you need/desire which either don't exist on Android or are worth the price premium, by all means buy an iPad. I did.
The total number of apps is irrelevant. 100K, 400K, 5M - as long as the ones you want are there. Most of those 400K apps are zombie apps that are never downloaded - same on all platforms.
You seem to be arguing that looking exactly like they always have is insufficient, since the Android apps also look "exactly like they always have".
Yes, I'm aware of what the "+" means. My point was that if you don't do the extra work, the apps built for the phone look like utter crap on the iPad, where as Android phone apps just look larger on the tablet, not with scaled-up pixels.
Wow, condescending much? You act like all I use are Android devices. I think it's a reasonably safe bet that I have now and have had more Apple devices than you. I've also likely had/used more Android devices than you. And so, unlike, perhaps, you, I actually know what the differences are. And the vast majority of the time, they are non-existent or unnoticeable. There isn't some depressing lack of tablet apps for Android. Higher-end Android devices - even many mid-range ones - do not lag. There isn't some magical iOS experience that Android users are missing out on. Unlike you (it seems), I use both regularly. I don't use bottom-of-the-barrel or old Android devices, nor do I use my old iOS ones. I use devices which, for the most part, are less than a year old. And on those devices, the mythical Android issues are either nonexistent or grossly overstated. Does that mean you can't buy some crap Android 2.2 device? No, of course not. But the better Android devices are competitive with or better than Apple ones on a number of levels hardware-wise and OS-wise, and the apps are coming up to parity as well. Is iOS still a better looking platform considering the apps? Sure. But it's not some magical wonderland, and the price of admission is a lot more than it needs to be.
This...when holding the tablet in landscape for videos the bezel is perfect for holding with my big hands. My thumbs can go on the bezel and I really do forget about them. People crying that it makes the device ugly...really? You use the device for what you see on the screen, not for how it "looks".
Well, to be honest, the only reason I bought a Nexus 7 in the first place was because you cannot run Torque on any apple device.
It does go both ways.
Wrong - I read that you too use iPads (at least). Just explaining that this whole "look" thing isn't the issue as you made it out to be in the post I quoted.
As for the "Android users" thing - not all, but many. Its a valid critique. Many Android users are caught up in specs and tweaking and customization. When the end results (the actual tasks) can be accomplished on both platforms. Obviously there is a difference in how those tasks get accomplished. And while Android is LIGHTYEARS ahead of what it was even two years ago, I'd still argue - Android gives you the more, less optimized options to get tasks done. iOS provides fewer, more optimized options to get tasks done.
Just as people who claim that Android devices lag like crazy are overstating their case, so to do people who claim Android devices NEVER lag. ALL tech lags. What I'm talking about when I say "smooth" are the animations and engines used to register touch inputs. My iOS devices "feel" more fluid. Is that because I'm used to them? Perhaps - Apple generally focuses more on some things and less on others. In order to keep animations as smooth as possible, sometimes processes are paused. But what that does is provide an incredibly fluid user experience.
Google obviously thought there was something to it - they've been working on project butter since 4.0. And speaking of condescension, you're most likely correct that you've had more devices than I have. Congratulations on being older than me. Unfortunately, that doesn't make you any smarter than I am, nor does it give you the right to assume things. My main smartphone is an HTC One, that I use daily. I use my iPhone 5 for work, an iPad mini at home and have an iMac and MBA. I owned a Nexus 7 last year, but ended up selling it as I felt it didn't have much, if anything to offer. I also toyed with a Nexus 4 earlier this year - would've kept it if I could've found a legitimate use for it. So while I wouldn't consider myself an expert on Android, I am a user. A daily user for the last year or so. There are things I like about my HTC and still things I prefer about my iPhone.
To be quite honest, there IS a 'magical' experience attached to the iPhone and iOS devices (though I'm using your words, I wouldn't characterize it as magical - maybe unique or alluring). I've already stated my opinion on the differences between iOS and Android. There are reasons why people prefer each. Reasons I completely understand, and if presented in a fair way would not garner any of my scorn.
But all too often here are these types of threads - "iPad mini getting DESTROYED by Nexus 7". I like to present the other side (and generally don't feel the need to present the Android side as well as MANY here take that responsibility upon themselves) and get labeled as a fanboy for it. Ahh well - so goes this pissing contest.
Truth is - the iPad mini is more popular than the N7. Why is that? I'm sure its because there are millions of blind Apple followers who would buy a turd wrapped in tin foil and hail it an innovation if it had the Apple logo on it
Or perhaps - there actually IS something alluring about the mini. Not just the device itself, but the ecosystem, the apps, the experience. But what do I know.....I've owned less devices than you and therefore acquiesce to your superior knowledge based on the number of smartphones and tablets you've had in your possession.
----------
But as Couch loves to point out (going the other way):
"How many Android fans would be making fun of the bezel if it were Apple releasing a device like the N7?"
I don't think anyone is denying more Android apps need to be optimized. This would be a stupid argument to make.
The argument is that un-optimized apps on a 7" screen aren't a deal-breaker. And that the advantages of optimized apps aren't the deciding factor in the face of iOS' shortcomings, and Apple's prices and hardware compromises.
Keep in mind, I'm waiting for my Nexus 7 replacement to come and it's no guarantee I'm keeping it. I, myself, am not convinced the Android-tablet experience is all buttoned up. But I'm definitely ready to give it a shot and potentially move on from the shortcomings of iOS. For example, in the little time I spent with my first Nexus 7 last week, it was a joy to type out emails and messages through Hangouts. A joy. Typing on iOS is the complete opposite of joy; it's painstakingly long and miserable to formulate a coherent, typo-less message. Swiftkey (tablet version) for the win.
But again, I'm all for Android apps becoming more optimized. I think as Android continues to spread on the tablet front, developers will follow suit. Nearly everything else has. I don't see why tablet optimized apps won't. The sooner the better, of course.
The argument is that un-optimized apps on a 7" screen aren't a deal-breaker. And that the advantages of optimized apps aren't the deciding factor in the face of iOS' shortcomings, and Apple's prices and hardware compromises.
Keep in mind, I'm waiting for my Nexus 7 replacement to come and it's no guarantee I'm keeping it. I, myself, am not convinced the Android-tablet experience is all buttoned up. But I'm definitely ready to give it a shot and potentially move on from the shortcomings of iOS. For example, in the little time I spent with my first Nexus 7 last week, it was a joy to type out emails and messages through Hangouts. A joy. Typing on iOS is the complete opposite of joy; it's painstakingly long and miserable to formulate a coherent, typo-less message. Swiftkey (tablet version) for the win.
But again, I'm all for Android apps becoming more optimized. I think as Android continues to spread on the tablet front, developers will follow suit. Nearly everything else has. I don't see why tablet optimized apps won't. The sooner the better, of course.
Somewhat agree - I'm making the point that they are a deal-breaker FOR SOME. Some of us prefer experience in apps over specs - even with the lower res display.
I'm also not making the statement that everyone should feel as I do. Simply (as always) trying to make the other side's case. That some of us DO find the lack of tablet-optimized (not looks, but function) to be a big knock against Android tablets and a major reason why we won't buy one.
And I'm sure its difficult for you to type on iOS (not saying you're lying) but please know, its not that way for everyone. There are plenty (myself included) who have no problems typing on the iOS keyboard. Its a subjective criteria - your own personally perceived shortcomings. I actually find the iOS keyboard more responsive (quicker to type) than my HTC keyboard and so find it easier to type on my iOS keyboard. Though I do like the swype-typing on the One.
I'm not so sure it'll be all that easy. The sheer number of OEMs and different sized tablets out there in the Android space make it difficult to truly optimize an app. Of course, devs could take the biggest step and add more functionality to those apps while still letting them scale to fit different sizes. The functionality (changed layout to increase function as well) is the major issue IMO.
I agree 100% with this.
To rephrase, I have never noticed any lag in the N7.2. It is irrelevant to me if it is there as long as I don't notice it. I absolutely noticed it on the original Kindle Fire - that thing is nothing but lag. I agree that it's an issue with many devices, especially older ones, but the newer, higher-end, post JB devices either don't have it or aren't encumbered by it at all. Now, once you start tweaking things and adding underlying processes and skins and such, it becomes more of an issue - same with jailbroken iOS devices. But pure Android on a new Nexus does not lag in any practical sense.
Again, I agree that it used to be an issue and remains one on lower-end devices running older/skinned versions of Android.
I stand corrected. However, your Android tablet comments seem a bit dated, as you don't use one. I do.
While I disagree about iOS, that's exactly how I've felt about OS X vs Windows (slightly less so since they started to inject too much iOS into it). It's a user preference, and as such it's perfectly OK for you to consider iOS superior, but that doesn't make it objectively superior, just better for you, which is fine.
I completely agree that there is way too much of that (excessive loyalty to one side) here.
It used to be a clear win to go with Apple, but that's no longer the case. The change in Android in the past year or so is staggering, and so all the alluring aspects of iOS have, to me, been transferred to Android. I see a faster pace of development, more new features, more selection, and so on. The current state-of-the-art iPhone is not all that different from the iPhone 4 I bought many years ago, whereas the latest Android phones are almost nothing like what was around in 2010. The iPad mini is almost literally a shrunken iPad 2, which is also years-old tech.Truth is - the iPad mini is more popular than the N7. Why is that? I'm sure its because there are millions of blind Apple followers who would buy a turd wrapped in tin foil and hail it an innovation if it had the Apple logo on it
Or perhaps - there actually IS something alluring about the mini. Not just the device itself, but the ecosystem, the apps, the experience. But what do I know.....I've owned less devices than you and therefore acquiesce to your superior knowledge based on the number of smartphones and tablets you've had in your possession.
My point is that iOS has moved at a glacial pace, and Apple devices likewise, whereas there is an explosion of growth on the Android side. If you enjoy iOS, it's fine to stay with it, but it bored me after a while. That doesn't mean it should bore you.
Perhaps thats because Android had farther to go? Are we really going to penalize Apple for beginning ahead of the curve?
As for the bolded - I have NO idea how you could think such a thing. Aside from the fact they are both the same relative shape, my iPhone 5 is miles better than the 4 - hell, I ran a 5 and 4S at the same time until I got my HTC One and the 5 beat the pants off the 4S IMO.
As for the mini - I agree (and am looking forward to this year's edition), but don't necessarily knock Apple for putting out what they did in the 1st generation. I expect a substantial upgrade this fall. That is to say, however, I still love to use my iPad mini - a testament, I think, to the longevity of Apple products. Just because its older doesn't mean it can't still offer a great experience. Plenty of people are happy with the 4S (though obviously the 5 is better).
Legitimate question -> What do you mean by explosion of growth? In that there are dozens of Android OEMs? That Android phones are catching up to the iPhone as far as sales (1-to-1)? Not sure what you mean here?
I don't subscribe to the idea that Android phones are technological more advanced than iPhones (which will likely garner a bunch of hate posts). So I'm not sure I understand?
If you find yourself bored and having multiple OEMs produce varying Android devices is what you are referring to (basically you just want something that looks new and shiny every year), then I can understand that. Heck, why do you think I got my HTC One? I had a situation where I needed two phones, why not go with something new?
No; I'm penalizing them for not advancing. I used to work for Nokia. They used to be the giant gorilla of the cellphone industry. They had iPhone-like prototypes that in many ways were better than the original iPhone years before the iPhone came out but just sat on them. They didn't innovate. And now? They're barely alive. Ten years ago, no one aside from maybe Steve Jobs himself would have even begun to consider it possible that Nokia would be a has-been and Apple the leader in mobile phones now.
I'd like to see Apple do something other than sitting on their asses.
The iPhone 5 is a lot faster, and the camera is better (less so), but the experience of using the iPhone 5 is virtually identical to the one of using an iPhone 4 in 2010. If you could have given one to someone 3+ years ago, they'd notice it was a lot faster, but the screen is essentially the same, and the OS is almost the same as well. To me, that means the iPhone 4 was a real beast in terms of specs and OS, but the 5 isn't as far ahead of it as it should be.
I simply meant that, compared to 2010, the Android landscape is utterly improved. Far better OS, far better choices. The iOS landscape has improved, but much less so, and yes, it was dominant then, but it has coasted. Thank God for Ives, as I do think he'll ramp things up again. I agree that specs for the sake of specs are meaningless (note the "mid-range" Moto X is getting great reviews because - gasp - it is actually really useful despite not being the spec beast of other phones). However, some things do matter - screen resolution (to a point), screen size (to a point), battery life (which Apple is better at than almost anyone), and so on.
I don't want multiple vendors necessarily, I just want my phone experience to change from year to year, and honestly, once the App Store was introduced, using an iPhone remained the same year after year after year. Android was a breath of fresh air. That goes both ways - it's not at all unlikely I'll switch back to iOS for a similar reason. For now, though, sitting on the Android train, I can at least see the scenery change out the window. iOS was parked at the station, at least iOS 4 -> iOS 5 -> iOS 6.