iPad Pro iPad Pro M4 vs. Microsoft's New Surface Pro 11: Sound Off!

[ZombiePete]

yes true
just run powerpoint on ipad pro and surface pro and see clear differences in functionality
i do not need to mention that surface can run a full version of MATLAB easily unlike ipad pro…

All the things the average consumer is clamoring for on their tablet.

i have felt that other than hand-writing using apple pencil or media consumption, there are so little things to do with my ipad at current stage.

That’s fair; if the iPad isn’t meeting your needs then it’s great that Microsoft is finally making improvements to the Surface Pro that are actually noteworthy. I hope it’s truly a great device, I just don’t really believe that the overlap between the majority of iPad users and potential Surface users is really all that big.

 

[ZombiePete]

The 500 accessory is just an option. There are different tiers, starting with the 139 option. And guess what? Unlike the iPad Pro M4, If I decide to upgrade my Surface Pro 8 to the new Surface Pro, I can use my existing keyboard and pen - just need to change the device..I personally wouldn’t need a keyboard to detach as I already have a desk with external keyboards for those scenario, but if someone needs it they have that option

First off, I would argue that the iPads had backwards compatibility for accessories for a decent amount of time, and that the reconfiguration of the iPad internals to move the camera and make it thinner/lighter was enough to warrant a change. I don’t find it to be that big of a deal but maybe I’m too forgiving. I would have wanted the new accessories anyway because they’re nice improvements, but I can only speak for myself.

Second, sure you can use different keyboard accessories for the Surface (though I hadn‘t seen it confirmed that the old keyboards work with the new Surface; last I checked Verge didn’t have an answer to that) but the point really is that at the end of the day, using a keyboard and mouse with a Surface is barely optional. You can do it, but it’s an extremely unpleasant experience. I have had two Surface Pros and I have a Dell Latitude Surface-clone for work and they are not fun experiences as tablet-only devices. That Microsoft doesn’t include a keyboard, even a basic one, is kind of hiding the true cost of the device in my opinion.

Saying you can use it in a docked mode at your desk just further highlights that it’s intended to be a computer with a touchscreen, not a tablet.

For me as a tablet, the iPad is much better. But overall as a device, I prefer my Surface so much more. The Surface I can use as my main productive device. For ME, the iPad is not much more than a more comfortable version of my iPhone with a larger screen better for reading and browsing at home. Still don’t know if it is the right time to go for Windows on ARM so may stick to my SP8 a bit longer, we’ll see.

I totally understand; if you need it, it can be nice to have the capabilities of a full computer when you’re on the go. I used to carry a computer and my iPad with me when I traveled all the time; I don’t have to now so I am more than happy with my iPad as a laptop replacement, but I am not here to say that’s right for everyone. I want the Surface to be a great device for the people who want/need it.

 

[Saturn1217]

I just wish the Surface was a better tablet. It's almost 2lbs. That's insane for a tablet in 2024. The M4 13" iPad Pro is 1.28lbs.

There will always be compromises with the tablet + keyboard form factor compared to a laptop when trying to do laptop tasks. There needs to be something to make those compromises worth it. Like when you take away the keyboard you have a tablet you'd want to use.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Apple's iPad Pros perfectly address this issue either. At least the surface can actually be a laptop replacement instead of requiring you to own both a macbook and an iPad Pro if you are anything beyond a basic user.

But I'm just staying away from all of it until someone figures this out (which clearly neither Apple nor Microsoft have yet) and can provide a great tablet that can also replace a laptop when docked with a keyboard. Currently that still doesn't exist so I'll be going with an iPad mini (great tablet) and a macbook pro (great laptop) and leave this hybrid concept for others.

 

[Macalway]

As others have mentioned, this product is a detachable slate/laptop, not a tablet like the iPad. It's in another category, I get why there's this thread, as it's an Arm OS like the iPad. MS compares it to the MacBook Air, which is a better comparison, but even then.

At 2 lbs, with a fan, peaking at around 45W; not comparable. Now if they had updated the Go, there's a good comparison, but they didn't.

I was waiting for a new Go. The Go they have now is ancient.

 

[KPOM]

It remains to be seen. They’ve been trying going ARM for many years now. As a desktop user, it doesn’t really concern me so far, but I also don’t know anybody who owns an ARM Windows laptop.

Though this time around they got Dell, HP, ASUS, Acer, and Samsung to release Snapdragon X Elite PCs.

 

[hagjohn]

Microsoft just launched a new line of Surface, with the new Surface Pro 11 with a 13" screen, OLED option with HDR, up to 32 GB RAM and the new Flex keyboard with 14% larger trackpad and more carbon fibre for stiffness, and a slim pen. How do you think it compares to the new iPad Pro M4s?

Some specs:

• Snapdragon X Plus or X Elite
• Up to 32GB LPDDR5x RAM
• Up to 1 TB SSD
• 13-inch PixelSense Flow Display - upgradeable to OLED with 900 nits peak brightness
• Qualcomm's NPU inside these devices (capable of up to 45 trillion operations per second)
• QHD Surface Studio camera with Windows Hello, 10MP rear-facing camera
• 1.97 lbs.

Here's a video:

Here's a reference article:

The new, faster Surface Pro is Microsoft’s all-purpose AI PC

Microsoft’s AI PCs are here in a big way.

www.theverge.com

One is a laptop and one is a tablet. Very different uses, except around the edges.

 

[Digitalguy]

As others have mentioned, this product is a detachable slate/laptop, not a tablet like the iPad. It's in another category, I get why there's this thread, as it's an Arm OS like the iPad. MS compares it to the MacBook Air, which is a better comparison, but even then.

At 2 lbs, with a fan, peaking at around 45W; not comparable. Now if they had updated the Go, there's a good comparison, but they didn't, and not only that, this is basically the old SP 10 with a new chip. The MS Surface team must be going through something strange, for them to be recycling old hardware,

I was waiting for a new Go. The Go they have now is ancient.

The fan will be silent most of the time with arm, just like in Macbooks (surface devices are already relatively quiet with Intel, let alone with ARM). But 2 pounds is the deal breaker for a tablet. Even if ARM makes it virtually silent and cool, and with good battery life (contrary to Intel), the weight is still an issue.
The kickstand helps with that, but it's not enough.

The Surface go for me is the true tablet. I have a cellular go 2 M3 and I love it. For use on the go it replaced my 11" iPad pro, the file management alone makes it so much better. And I can use whatsapp. It's much lighter than the iPad when you add the keyboard and it's totally fine for using with a pen. I only wish more battery life (that could come with ARM) and better speakers.

 

[DeepSix]

Wonder why no new Ultra chips in the new Surface Pro 11. meteor lake is the next gen of Intel chip. Why use Snap dragon?
Interested on reviews on it.

 

[Digitalguy]

Wonder why no new Ultra chips in the new Surface Pro 11. meteor lake is the next gen of Intel chip. Why use Snap dragon?
Interested on reviews on it.

Answer: Meteor Lake is already in Surface pro 10, which is an AI pc, but Meteor lake does not qualify as a Copilot+ PC (it only has 11 TOPS, while it needs at least 40 to qualify). Intel Surface pro 11 is coming once Lunar lake is ready later this year.

 

[Macalway]

The fan will be silent most of the time with arm, just like in Macbooks (surface devices are already relatively quiet with Intel, let alone with ARM). But 2 pounds is the deal breaker for a tablet. Even if ARM makes it virtually silent and cool, and with good battery life (contrary to Intel), the weight is still an issue.
The kickstand helps with that, but it's not enough.

The Surface go for me is the true tablet. I have a cellular go 2 M3 and I love it. For use on the go it replaced my 11" iPad pro, the file management alone makes it so much better. And I can use whatsapp. It's much lighter than the iPad when you add the keyboard and it's totally fine for using with a pen. I only wish more battery life (that could come with ARM) and better speakers.

I looked at the present Elite X offerings, and there's about 20 new laptops with this new cpu. All of them look like clones of each other, except the Surface, and maybe Lenovo, which seems to have better specs. These are all fan based with 14" and 16" variants, weighing about 3 lbs, and are meant for the AI capabilities. I guess we just have to wait for the lighter, fanless tablets and laptops, which this new cpu would be good for. It scales nicely, as the first offerings are maxing out the power potential, which is understandable for this AI stuff.

Users reviews should be interesting. A new system, that most people, including myself, have no idea wtf it is,

 

[Rafterman]

As others have mentioned, this product is a detachable slate/laptop, not a tablet like the iPad. It's in another category, I get why there's this thread, as it's an Arm OS like the iPad. MS compares it to the MacBook Air, which is a better comparison, but even then.

At 2 lbs, with a fan, peaking at around 45W; not comparable. Now if they had updated the Go, there's a good comparison, but they didn't, and not only that, this is basically the old SP 10 with a new chip. The MS Surface team must be going through something strange, for them to be recycling old hardware,

I was waiting for a new Go. The Go they have now is ancient.

The Surface Pro 10 is brand new, released a month or two ago.

 

[KPOM]

I just wish the Surface was a better tablet. It's almost 2lbs. That's insane for a tablet in 2024. The M4 13" iPad Pro is 1.28lbs.

There will always be compromises with the tablet + keyboard form factor compared to a laptop when trying to do laptop tasks. There needs to be something to make those compromises worth it. Like when you take away the keyboard you have a tablet you'd want to use.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Apple's iPad Pros perfectly address this issue either. At least the surface can actually be a laptop replacement instead of requiring you to own both a macbook and an iPad Pro if you are anything beyond a basic user.

But I'm just staying away from all of it until someone figures this out (which clearly neither Apple nor Microsoft have yet) and can provide a great tablet that can also replace a laptop when docked with a keyboard. Currently that still doesn't exist so I'll be going with an iPad mini (great tablet) and a macbook pro (great laptop) and leave this hybrid concept for others.

Given that it’s been 3 years since iPads got “Mac” chips, and Microsoft spent the better part of its presentation comparing the Surface Pro to the MacBook Air rather than the iPad Pro, the logical conclusion is not that Apple and Microsoft won’t make a “great tablet that can also replace a laptop” but that they have concluded that they can’t. Sure, Apple could let an iPad run macOS, and Microsoft could make a 1.3 lb Surface Pro, but the M4 iPad Pro wouldn’t make a great Mac, and a 1.3 lb Surface Pro wouldn’t match up with a MacBook Air.

Consider battery life. macOS is not as efficient as iPadOS. An M4 iPad Pro would need to be thicker and/or heavier to deliver all-day battery life. It would also likely throttle a lot with the current design if users tried to run lots of background apps and processes. Could Apple use the Magic Keyboard to provide additional battery life and/or thermal dissipation? Perhaps, but not with the current design.

Likewise, Microsoft doesn’t have a great tablet OS, so they designed the Surface Pro to be a great notebook that can be an adequate tablet in a pinch. At nearly 2 lbs. it is heavy for a tablet.

 

[Macalway]

The Surface Pro 10 is brand new, released a month or two ago.

For business, and which is physically a SP 9, no redesign, as far as I know. A SP 9 with a gen 14 Intel chip, for business. Everyone expected a redesign for the consumer models released yesterday, but I doesn't appear to the case.

Same thing with the Surface Go 4. A SG 3 with a new 14th gen (I think) chip, for 'business'. So these are old hardware, relatively.

Certainly I'm no expert, so there's that. My posts are questionable, for sure.

 

[DeepSix]

Answer: Meteor Lake is already in Surface pro 10, which is an AI pc, but Meteor lake does not qualify as a Copilot+ PC (it only has 11 TOPS, while it needs at least 40 to qualify). Intel Surface pro 11 is coming once Lunar lake is ready later this year.

But surface pro 10 is only sold to businesses only. I’ve yet to find a store selling it to the public. And I haven’t seen any reviews on 10 yet.

 

[Rafterman]

But surface pro 10 is only sold to businesses only. I’ve yet to find a store selling it to the public. And I haven’t seen any reviews on 10 yet.

Yes, but anyone can buy it. You don't need to be a business, any user can buy it directly from Microsoft. Engadget had a review.

 

[sartois]

With 16GB of ram on the base spec and removable/replaceable storage, as well as an OS that lets non-artists do something productive with their shiny new toy I can see the appeal. If I was given a choice of only being able to use one device for everything then I'd have to pick the surface pro as I'd actually be able to use it for work stuff. Since I can use more than one I'll stick with the iPad for YouTube/Netflix/e-book consumption and the laptop for literally everything else.

Hopefully Windows on ARM becomes usable though for parallels purposes when I do need to fire up the Windows vm.

 

[Rafterman]

For business, and which is physically a SP 9, no redesign, as far as I know. A SP 9 with a gen 14 Intel chip, for business only. Everyone expected a redesign for the consumer models released yesterday, but I doesn't appear to the case.

Same thing with the Surface Go 4. A SG 3 with a new 14th gen (I think) chip, for 'business only'. So these are old hardware, relatively.

Certainly I'm no expert, so there's that. My posts are questionable, for sure.

Anyone can buy though, not just businesses. You can go to the business section of Microsoft's site. Or one of the resellers, like CDW. It uses the new Core Ultra chips. Engadget had a favorable review.

 

[Macalway]

Yes, but anyone can buy it. You don't need to be a business, any user can buy it directly from Microsoft. Engadget had a review.

Right, I had wrote "for business only" which is incorrect.

 

[Rafterman]

Right, I had wrote "for business only" which is incorrect.

Yeah not sure why MS makes the unnecessary distinction. Just like Dell, like they are two separate companies, business and personal. Why complicate things?

 

[Digitalguy]

But surface pro 10 is only sold to businesses only. I’ve yet to find a store selling it to the public. And I haven’t seen any reviews on 10 yet.

There will never be a consumer version of the Surface pro 10. Why? Because the surface pro 10 is a placeholder, so that you can have a Surface device with Intel while Intel catches up in terms of NPU.
But why not call the new Arm devices Surface pro 10? Precisely because an Intel equivalent is coming later this year that can meet the requirements for Copilot+ devices and that will be call pro 11 too. Also, probably to try and not make this Intel delay too evident, Microsoft is copying Apple and colling the device Surface pro only (like they had done with the pro 5 back in the day) and give the generation only in settings.
Hope it's clear.

 

[Digitalguy]

I looked at the present Elite X offerings, and there's about 20 new laptops with this new cpu. All of them look like clones of each other, except the Surface, and maybe Lenovo, which seems to have better specs. These are all fan based with 14" and 16" variants, weighing about 3 lbs, and are meant for the AI capabilities. I guess we just have to wait for the lighter, fanless tablets and laptops, which this new cpu would be good for. It scales nicely, as the first offerings are maxing out the power potential, which is understandable for this AI stuff.

Users reviews should be interesting. A new system, that most people, including myself, have no idea wtf it is,

There is a reason. Qualcomm wants the new devices to look as good as possible vs the MacBook air. So they pushed the OEMs to only release devices that met certain thermal requirements and had a fan, so that it can look better in benchmarks. Also batteries need to be large enough since the chips are tunes for performance, again to look good in benchmarks.
These are the requirements for the first generation.
Once these devices become popular as hoped, these restrictions should gradually be lifted and we should seen more form factors (fanless and ultra light devices with small batteries).

 

[Rafterman]

There is a reason. Qualcomm wants the new devices to look as good as possible vs the MacBook air. So they pushed the OEMs to only release devices that met certain thermal requirements and had a fan, so that it can look better in benchmarks. Also batteries need to be large enough since the chips are tunes for performance, again to look good in benchmarks.
These are the requirements for the first generation.
Once these devices become popular as hoped, these restrictions should gradually be lifted and we should seen more form factors (fanless and ultra light devices with small batteries).

I don't get what the obsession with fans is. I can see a fan less device for a tablet, you don't want to hold it and have hot air blowing on you. But on a laptop, who cares if it has a fan or not. I'd rather have a fan and have better performance.

 

[Digitalguy]

I don't get what the obsession with fans is. I can see a fan less device for a tablet, you don't want to hold it and have hot air blowing on you. But on a laptop, who cares if it has a fan or not. I'd rather have a fan and have better performance.

There is a very interesting article published today on thurott.com about this called "Not a Fan". Unfortunately it is member only (I am a subscriber). Many people want total silence and devices like the Macbook air have spoiled them with total silence.
I am one of those who want silence more than performance, but I can be fine if the fan is very quiet even under load and comes one extremely rarely. We'll see if the new ARM devices meet those requirements.

 

[rui no onna]

There is a very interesting article published today on thurott.com about this called "Not a Fan". Unfortunately it is member only (I am a subscriber). Many people want total silence and devices like the Macbook air have spoiled them with total silence.
I am one of those who want silence more than performance, but I can be fine if the fan is very quiet even under load and comes one extremely rarely. We'll see if the new ARM devices meet those requirements.

Yep, this. Total silence is nice but quiet is good, too.

Often though, it’s not the noise/decibels itself but the sound characteristics that’s annoying. The fan may be quiet but if it gives off a high pitched whine, that’s worse to me than a louder low frequency hum. Hence, going completely fanless gives one a much better guarantee.

 

[jakey rolling]

All the things the average consumer is clamoring for on their tablet.

I mean, the average consumer can run YouTube and Netflix on a Surface about as easily as they can on an iPad. Unless you think tablet-based music and video editing tools are any less niche than PowerPoint.

That’s fair; if the iPad isn’t meeting your needs then it’s great that Microsoft is finally making improvements to the Surface Pro that are actually noteworthy. I hope it’s truly a great device, I just don’t really believe that the overlap between the majority of iPad users and potential Surface users is really all that big.

Probably isn't, but there are a lot of people (myself included) who want a good crossover device. The Surface is exactly that.