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atomic.flip

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Dec 7, 2008
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And the Mac isn’t as popular as the iPhone either, so who cares who popular it is compared to iPhone? Apple has been expanding the functionality of iPadOS. And as I’ve said before, I’m not opposed to iPadOS running Mac apps like Macs can run iPad apps. But iPadOS is far better optimized for the iPad than macOS is, replacing an OS that’s fully optimized for the iPad hardware with one that isn’t (macOS) doesn’t make much sense to me. That doesn’t mean iPadOS can’t incorporate more macOS features and functions in a way that makes sense for the iPad.
Investors care and no matter what dream anyone may be having about Apple executives being rebels trying to “think different” if a majority of investors don’t understand or care what your business is about your stock value will go in the toilet and the company and its products will follow quickly.

There is no Steve Jobs at Apple anymore. In case you haven’t noticed.
 

atomic.flip

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Dec 7, 2008
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Excellent point. And far too many on here rail on Apple for what is seen as a lackluster update, when developers, as a whole, appear to have stuck with the Mac side.
It’s because the iPad is not a developer friendly platform. Every developer needs to have a sense for what they are actually working on. Until the iPad can be used effectively and willingly by developers it will always get lack luster support.

I’m sorry to say (and I mean no offense) but if you understood how application development happened you’d understand this very easily.
 
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Apple_Robert

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Sep 21, 2012
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To be fair to developers, there are limitations to coding an iPad app that aren't present with a Mac app.
I understand that and have no ill-will towards Developers. They are doing what is best for them and I would be doing the same. My point was that what has happened to the iPad isn''t Apple's fault anymore than it is Developers. The biggest problem is too many people keep expecting the iPad to be something different and complain every year when they don't get their way. I would expect such a mindset from an uninformed non-tech type consumer but, not on places like MR, where so many here are not clueless.

The iPad is a gap tool and people need to make peace with that Apple fact.
 

Kal Madda

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Nov 2, 2022
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Read my other post about graphic art workflows. Let me know how that looks in one year. We are pretty much eliminating those jobs from the general business workflow at a dizzying pace due to AI.

I don’t like this and I’m not saying it should be this way but it is true. The jobs and platform in general are dying. If someone wants to keep it alive with a pilot light for future generations that would be nice. But honestly…

The iPad was a platform that had more of a chance in a collaborative workplace environment and no matter how much companies are trying to get people to stop “working from home” it’s just never going back to what it was.

This really begs the question of how portable everything actually needs to be. Most apps have been reduced down to iPhone capable solutions and when people need a keyboard and a mouse they use a laptop or a desktop.

No one. Not a single human being who is t a graphic artist ever says…. Damn I really need a tablet for this.

It’s just not a thing and won’t ever be a thing at this rate.

Even if you could draw on and touch interact with your 65” OLED flatscreen TV… how many people do you think would actually bother to do it???

Again the iPad is a “solution looking for a problem.”

They’ve had a decade and a half to change people’s workflow with something better. Apple failed miserably with this.
Many people want to use a tablet for other workflows, and many do use a tablet for workflows other than graphic artists. If you’re a developer, a Mac is likely a better fit for your workflow, though I do know some developers who use an iPad for development work. As I’ve stated before, the blame for missing features in third party apps falls squarely on the shoulders of said third-party developers. Often, these missing features have nothing to do with the OS, but poor decisions made by developers like Microsoft who artificially kneecap their apps. Luckily, some of these developers are starting to get enough feedback that they’re incorporating more features into their iPad apps. Many developers do it right, and make incredible desktop-class apps for iPadOS. Also, I have never once said iPadOS can’t improve. I’m just happy with where it is currently, that doesn’t mean it needs to stay where it is and can’t gain any extra functionality. If Apple has enough users who want a text editor app built into iPadOS, then I’m sure they’ll add it. Something tells me that will likely not happen because it’s far too niche, and it’s better to focus resources on things the majority of iPad users actually want.
 

Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,695
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In a van down by the river
It’s because the iPad is not a developer friendly platform. Every developer needs to have a sense for what they are actually working on. Until the iPad can be used effectively and willingly by developers it will always get lack luster support.

I’m sorry to say (and I mean no offense) but if you understood how application development happened you’d understand this very easily.
No offense taken.

I get that iPadOS is restricted. The backlash we are seeing this year has been with us since the iPad was first released. Too many expect MacOS app type ability with all the Apple apps etc., when that isn't the focus and point of the iPad.
 
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Kal Madda

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Development is hardly a niche workflow.
It’s a monitory of iPad users, or for that matter, likely a minority of Mac users as well. There are several third-party IDE apps for iPadOS like Kodex that I’ve tinkered with. Most developers I’ve seen prefer a MacBook anyways because they have larger screens, more powerful chips, and most importantly, a better built-in keyboard. App development is a niche workflow on a tablet. I don’t see a whole ton of developers flocking around the Surface Pro.
 

FkCombustion

macrumors newbie
May 8, 2024
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Something missed in the shuffle is also that Apple just added a ton of new features and tools in Swift that will make it easier for App developers to port their software with Swift, and provide more desktop-class apps. Even the top page of the iPadOS 18 Developer page is encouraging developers to provide dekstop-class apps and experiences for iPadOS. Apple is definitely pushing for developers to add desktop-level functionality into their apps.
bold of you to assume developers are going to dedicate time to this, on the platform that still doesn't have an instagram app and won’t get a calculator app until the fall
 
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Allen_Wentz

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Dec 3, 2016
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You’re reading this of your cover letter for Apples marketing department I assume. But we shall see. Revolutions have been missing so far and the platform is most certainly not gaining users as Apple has been hiding sales numbers for a long time now. Price increases and additional niche models are the typical ways to address a platform whose sales aren’t going as expected.
No, "Price increases and additional niche models are..." not "...the typical ways to address a platform whose sales aren’t going as expected."
 
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Kal Madda

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bold of you to assume developers are going to dedicate time to this, on the platform that still doesn't have an instagram app and won’t get a calculator app until the fall
Well, ZBrush is, I’m guessing more will probably follow suite. We’ve seen desktop app after desktop app port over the last couple years, so I’m pretty sure that trend will continue. Also, the “iPad doesn’t have an Instagram app” argument is overrated. I don’t think macOS has a native Instagram app either. And that’s not something Apple is responsible for, that’s a decision made by the developers of Instagram, not Apple… It’s very easy to use the web app, and the iPad can natively run the iPhone version of Instagram.
 

Kal Madda

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No, "Price increases and additional niche models are..." not "...the typical ways to address a platform whose sales aren’t going as expected."
Exactly. It’s interesting that some of these people pretend “the iPad is a dying product because it isn’t a Mac”, when usually the iPad outstrips the Mac in revenue percentage.
 
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Allen_Wentz

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It will likely improve multitasking by removing the requirement of navigating to an app in the background to grab a bit of data, a file, or whatever to insert into the foreground process you’re working on.
Curious. Exactly how do you suggest that "It will likely improve multitasking by removing the requirement of navigating to an app in the background..." ?? It seems to me that "the requirement of navigating to an app in the background" will always remain, even if it is automated via AI.

EDIT: I suspect that I am just talking (babbling?) semantics, as AI will "likely improve multitasking by removing the requirement of navigating to an app in the background" because AI does the navigating.
 
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Kal Madda

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Investors care and no matter what dream anyone may be having about Apple executives being rebels trying to “think different” if a majority of investors don’t understand or care what your business is about your stock value will go in the toilet and the company and its products will follow quickly.

There is no Steve Jobs at Apple anymore. In case you haven’t noticed.
And none of this is relevant or makes sense. If you’re arguing by popularity or revenue percentages alone, then by your logic, the Mac would be on the chopping block as well, because it’s not as popular as the iPhone either. The iPad clearly is at least about as popular as the Mac when looking at revenue percentage, and usually accounts for a greater percentage of Apple’s revenue than Macs. Last year was a different from average likely because there was a whole year with no new iPad models, so of course sales would be expected to be lower. But looking at revenue percentages, they’re generally either very close, or the iPad is mostly outperforming. And that doesn’t account for the fact that the cheapest iPads are far cheaper than the cheapest Macs, which means that there are likely far more iPad units that ship than Mac units. Not bad for a “dying product”. And, btw, by your logic, developers will also be displaced by AI, so then there’s no need for all of these niche features that macOS includes for developers that iPadOS doesn’t. So then they’ll basically be equal for consumers, and it will be more about average software, web browsing, and the things that most people do that aren’t very different between the two currently… The fact of the matter is, this is all entirely speculative, we don’t know what AI will or won’t do to the market, so trying to assert subjective opinions about things that have yet to come to pass as if they’re objective truths is an exercise in futility, unless anyone here has a crystal ball.
 

Kal Madda

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Curious. Exactly how do you suggest that "It will likely improve multitasking by removing the requirement of navigating to an app in the background..." ?? It seems to me that "the requirement of navigating to an app in the background" will always remain, even if it is automated via AI.
My point is that a user won’t have to look through their open apps, find the file or whatever, copy it, and then paste it into the foreground process. The AI will be able to do all of these things for the user if what Apple demoed is correct. 👍🏻. This will likely streamline a users workflow, and eliminate some of the complaints people have about trying to find things in background apps and such with multitasking on iPadOS.
 

Supermallet

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Sep 19, 2014
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It will likely improve multitasking by removing the requirement of navigating to an app in the background to grab a bit of data, a file, or whatever to insert into the foreground process you’re working on. And we will have to see how it impacts active background tasks, but iPadOS currently handles background tasks. I believe it’s only some apps that don’t take proper advantage of it that have issues.
What you’re talking about is an iterative improvement, not a revolutionary new way to use the system. I am sure I’ll be able to pull some limited types of data from other apps to bring into what I’m doing in my current app without leaving that app using Apple Intelligence, and some amount of limited writing of data to other apps (like making a calendar event based on text in an email) without leaving the app I’m in, but that’s an iterative step, not a revolutionary change. I would not pin my hopes on the first version of Apple Intelligence dramatically changing the way we fundamentally use computers. I’m sure it will be better than Siri as it exists today, but I think there will also be plenty of limitations that we’ll run into as we try to use Apple Intelligence in a more free form way than Apple programmed it for.
 
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atomic.flip

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Dec 7, 2008
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Exactly. It’s interesting that some of these people pretend “the iPad is a dying product because it isn’t a Mac”, when usually the iPad outstrips the Mac in revenue percentage.

Nope. Mac is also kinda dead in the water.

It works like this. Dying is when your volume of sales are shrinking and revenue per unit also shrinks consistently for an indeterminate period of time.

Mac is not a growing platform and neither is iPad.

It’s only people in the top 1% of income and wealth that can afford a new multi thousand dollar device every year or even every 2-3 years that are keeping these products alive.

It’s a very niche market outside of graphic design.

Windows is still not nearly as pretty or elegant as MacOS but they’ve really polished it up very well and it’s still on over 85 percent of computers on the planet.

Mac OS and iPad OS are being maintained. Not much innovation happening outside of the change in processors.

But in general don’t expect massive shifts in developer support as long as things remain the same.

Just go ask ChatGPT to chart windows pc unit sales and Mac unit sales for the past decade and compare the numbers.

Macs unit sales hasn’t increased more than 1 percent over the past decade!

I wouldn’t call that moving the market.

Then if you want to have a laugh or a cry ask it to chart iPad Unit sales for the last decade.

Peaked in 2013 with 70 million units sold and then dropped like a rock from 2014 to 2017… hit rock bottom in 2019 with 40 million units and then bounced back to 45 million units in 2021 and has been declining since then.

It is the epitome of a dying platform and developer support for the platform has stagnated as is natural for any device with so little interest.

It’s not dead yet. But it’s genuinely on life support by comparison to Mac sales. And that’s not saying Mac is a massive market mover anymore.

Keep in mind this isn’t an analysis of revenue but honestly the platforms aren’t making major bucks for Apple outside of the incidental sales on their media platforms and AppStore’s.

I mean.. just look at the Mac AppStore. Tons and tons of apps haven’t seen an update in half a decade LOL
 
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atomic.flip

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Dec 7, 2008
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Exactly. It’s interesting that some of these people pretend “the iPad is a dying product because it isn’t a Mac”, when usually the iPad outstrips the Mac in revenue percentage.
Nope. Not since 2015 it hasn’t. You’re living in the past if you still believe that.

Mac sales revenue is easily 2 to 3 times that of iPad any given year.

And iPad revenue is being held up by massive increases in price per unit averages while volume of units sold has plummeted.
 
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richpjr

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May 9, 2006
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Nope. Not since 2015 it hasn’t. You’re living in the past if you still believe that.

Mac sales revenue is easily 2 to 3 times that of iPad any given year.

And iPad revenue is being held up by massive increases in price per unit averages while volume of units sold has plummeted.
 

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Kal Madda

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What you’re talking about is an iterative improvement, not a revolutionary new way to use the system. I am sure I’ll be able to pull some limited types of data from other apps to bring into what I’m doing in my current app without leaving that app using Apple Intelligence, and some amount of limited writing of data to other apps (like making a calendar event based on text in an email) without leaving the app I’m in, but that’s an iterative step, not a revolutionary change. I would not pin my hopes on the first version of Apple Intelligence dramatically changing the way we fundamentally use computers. I’m sure it will be better than Siri as it exists today, but I think there will also be plenty of limitations that we’ll run into as we try to use Apple Intelligence in a more free form way than Apple programmed it for.
Apparently it somewhat depends on your point of view. I think most people would consider being able to just pull in files or data from background apps, or likely apps that are even closed into your foreground process based on a simple prompt rather than having to actually navigate to the file or app to get it as revolutionary to their workflow. 👍🏻
 

Supermallet

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Apparently it somewhat depends on your point of view. I think most people would consider being able to just pull in files or data from background apps, or likely apps that are even closed into your foreground process based on a simple prompt rather than having to actually navigate to the file or app to get it as revolutionary to their workflow. 👍🏻
Fair enough. Let me say I would absolutely love a seismic shift in the functionality of the iPad because I love the concept of it and with the hardware built into the Pros they have the potential to be a complete laptop replacement, which I dearly want! I am simply skeptical that Apple Intelligence by itself will produce the seismic shift.
 
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atomic.flip

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Dec 7, 2008
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Revenues line up because the price of iPads has risen dramatically. Not because unit sales have increased.

This is not a sustainable market. Continuously increasing the price of what you sell to inflate revenue doesn’t mean it’s affordable for desirable to the market.

Eventually sales drop off until the process cannot be justified to investors. Which is why they don’t officially report mac, iPad etc. sales figures on quarterly reports anymore. LOL

But anyway. The point still stands. Volume of units sold is way way way less than mac.
 

Kal Madda

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Revenues line up because the price of iPads has risen dramatically. Not because unit sales have increased.

This is not a sustainable market. Continuously increasing the price of what you sell to inflate revenue doesn’t mean it’s affordable for desirable to the market.

Eventually sales drop off until the process cannot be justified to investors. Which is why they don’t officially report mac, iPad etc. sales figures on quarterly reports anymore. LOL

But anyway. The point still stands. Volume of units sold is way way way less than mac.
This is laughable. First you admit that shipped unit numbers are unavailable, but then you claim that iPad unit sales numbers are low. You can’t possibly know this, because the data doesn’t exist according to you. They’re supposedly “hiding” it. You’re just stating your opinions as facts…
 
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richpjr

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May 9, 2006
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Revenues line up because the price of iPads has risen dramatically. Not because unit sales have increased.

This is not a sustainable market. Continuously increasing the price of what you sell to inflate revenue doesn’t mean it’s affordable for desirable to the market.

Eventually sales drop off until the process cannot be justified to investors. Which is why they don’t officially report mac, iPad etc. sales figures on quarterly reports anymore. LOL

But anyway. The point still stands. Volume of units sold is way way way less than mac.
in 2023 Apple sold 21.9 million Macs and 48.5 million iPads.
 
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