iPhone SE (2016) iPhone SE 2 in 2018?

[MilKat10]

If the SE2 used A11, it would immediately cannibalize the iPhone 7 and iPhone 8.

When the SE was released, Apple had a different product stack. The SE was a 4-inch phone and Apple sold no other such devices. If we agree SE2 will move to 4.7-inch, it would be compete with iPhone 8. Right now, iPhone 8 sells for $699. I don't think Apple is ready to kill iPhone 8 and replace it with a $449 device.

I agree when they released the iPhone SE, they had recently launched the 6 and needed to keep the customers upgrading from the 5s and previous models. They offered 2 ways to do so (iPhone 6-7: bigger / more features | iPhone SE: more compact yet quite up to date at launch).

The situation in 2018 looks very different with most of the market having moved to bigger phones and the SE and previous 4 inch models being the minority of Apple's market.

I believe we are looking at this situation too much in regards to iPhone model numbering rather than function that these phones fullfil in the market for Apple. As I mentioned earlier I believe there are 2 options. My gut feeling tells me they will ditch the 4 inch format (not necessary anymore to cater this share of the market - they might regret this decision in a couple of years though).

I will clarify what I mean by "we are looking at this situation too much in regards to iPhone model numbering rather than function that these phones fullfil in the market for Apple":

5.8" : iPhone X successor - probable starting price around $949 if they master the manufacturing of FaceID by Sept.2018)
6.1" : LCD : it will be called iPhone SE but will cater entry market with starting price around $699 - current iPhone 8 price level)
6.5" : iPhone X+ : probable starting around $1149)
iPhone 8 : probable starting price around $599
iPhone X (2017 Edition): probable starting price around $849
iPhone 8+ : no idea ?!

iPhone 7 and prior models disappear from the product line (transition phase to the coming decade completed*)

The current iPhone SE will still be fast enough for another 2 years for most SE users.
They refresh the iPhone 8 on a bi-yearly basis (just as for the iPhone SE), they save money with components. iPhone 8+ disappears after 2020 (these customers can afford the 6.5"). The iPhone 8 devalues slightly after 2018 to end up around $499. The bi-yearly updates takes care of anchoring the price around that area.

The 6.1" becomes the "cheap" option to get the new design over time.

Apple manages to place all iPhones in the current product line at different price points, end of story...OR...

*Well let's not forget that this customer base using the iPhone SE likes it for numerous factors, the most often cited being :
- price
- small format
- developing countries
- headphone jack

I personally believe that they will have to get back to a 4 inch format after 2020 (if they attempt to shuffle around the product line as described above). Because the SE has numerous marketing advantages they will not be able to shun this fringe of the market indefinitely. Unless they leave it to the competition.

/MilK

 

[Princejb134]

Just because the iPhone X is out, does not mean that my thread should be ignored...This is just plain rude. Again, when will the iPhone SE 2 be released?

is not rude if no one here works for apple. Only apple knows when the SE2 is releasing

 

[MilKat10]

Another point is the lack of rumours around a 4 inch SE2. I know it is not the most awaited phone on the market but we should have had more news about the "new case", features etc. by now (3 months from potential launch). Which leads once again to September target with 3 "big" phones including a "cheap" one momentarily called the iPhone SE2 or else (with LCD display).

/MilK

 

[JPack]

5.8" : iPhone X successor - probable starting price around $949 if they master the manufacturing of FaceID by Sept.2018)
6.1" : LCD : it will be called iPhone SE but will cater entry market with starting price around $699 - current iPhone 8 price level)
6.5" : iPhone X+ : probable starting around $1149)
iPhone 8 : probable starting price around $599
iPhone X (2017 Edition): probable starting price around $849
iPhone 8+ : no idea ?!

What's missing are the following price points: $349, $449, and $549. Those prices are currently occupied by SE, 6s, and 7.

I still don't think the 6.1" will be an SE product. It's double the current SE price and nowhere near entry level. More importantly, the new form factor commands premium pricing.

My prediction for Q3'18 is:

• $349 - SE
• $449 - SE2
• $599 - iPhone 8
• $699 - iPhone 8 Plus
• $749/849 - 6.1"
• $999 - 5.8"
  
• $1,149 - 6.5"

These three new phones will help provide upward pressure on ASPs for Apple.

 

[44267547]

What's missing are the following price points: $349, $449, and $549. Those prices are currently occupied by SE, 6s, and 7.

I still don't think the 6.1" will be an SE product. It's double the current SE price and nowhere near entry level pricing.

My prediction for Q3'18 is:

• $349 - SE
• $449 - SE2
• $599 - iPhone 8
• $699 - iPhone 8 Plus
• $749 - 6.1"
• $999 - 5.8"
  
• $1,149 - 6.5"

The only point in your Post I disagree with is the continuation of the SE being offered IF Apple offers an SE 2. I don't forsee offering both models side by side, which I believe the first Gen SE will be discontinued with the offering of an SE 2. If the SE is updated, perhaps in March for a spring Keynote, otherwise a brief update when new iPhones are announced in Fall 2018. But likely incremental updates both physically and internally adopting iPhone 7 or 8 internals for the SE 2.

 

[JPack]

The only point in your Post I disagree with is the continuation of the SE being offered IF Apple offers an SE 2. I don't forsee offering both models side by side, which I believe the first Gen SE will be discontinued with the offering of an SE 2. If the SE is updated, perhaps in March for a spring Keynote, otherwise a brief update when new iPhones are announced in Fall 2018. But likely if incremental updates both physically and internally adopting iPhone 7 or 8 internals.

You could be right as I'm not certain on the SE either.

Given the price sensitivity of some consumers, I think there's a possibility Apple could keep the SE as an entry level offering. While $449 seems reasonably cheap for the rest of the world, the SE2 and SE could act as the hi-lo option for the Indian market.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I believe that Apple could retain a lot of entry level buyers in the game with an SE2 in the same SE body but A10 powered with 4" screen and a headphone jack - one that looks and feels like the current aluminum model, so that it doesn't cost a bazillion dollars to fix if a glass back breaks (I thought apple would learn from the iPhone 4 and 4s that we don't like glass phones or glass houses).

Many people can add wireless charging to their iPhone SE for $10 with a gizmo from Amazon that fits between the case and iPhone. I did that with our spare iPhone 5s and iPhone 6. Adding the wireless gizmo is only a problem for those who want to go case-less, but with a glass back you'd be unwise to go case-less anyway.

Things they should NOT change - the overall size and feel in the hand, cost, headphone jack, and touch ID. If the screen gets much bigger then some people with tiny hands will struggle more (my older daughter's issue). If people can use legacy cases (including water-resistant LifeProof cases) then it saves everyone money and Apple doesn't need to make it WR without a headphone jack. They don't need to jack up the price with True Depth Camera and Face ID.

 

[Paddle1]

I don't want to see the A10 in any future iOS devices. Too underpowered for longevity purposes. If both the iPod touch 6 and SE launched with the current gen iPhone chip I expect the same from an SE 2. A11 Bionic.

 

[thadoggfather]

I don't want to see the A10 in any future iOS devices. Too underpowered for longevity purposes. If both the iPod touch 6 and SE launched with the current gen iPhone chip I expect the same from an SE 2. A11 Bionic.

Too slow for what? ios is the bottleneck

Really can’t tell a difference a9 with iOS 10 on Se

Or 7plus / X on 11 power wise

 

[Paddle1]

Too slow for what? ios is the bottleneck

Really can’t tell a difference a9 with iOS 10 on Se

Or 7plus / X on 11 power wise

I don't think it's slow, I think even the A9 is powerful. It's just bad for longevity, the A10 is too similar to A9. A11 is a big leap. History has shown whenever Apple holds back on the processor the device suffers, iPhone 4, iPhone 6, iPad 3. A10 is better than those, but I'm not sure it'll be enough. This is a device that isn't updated every year which makes it even worse.

 

[thadoggfather]

I don't think it's slow, I think even the A9 is powerful. It's just bad for longevity, the A10 is too similar to A9. A11 is a big leap. History has shown whenever Apple holds back on the processor the device suffers, iPhone 4, iPhone 6, iPad 3. A10 is better than those, but I'm not sure it'll be enough. This is a device that isn't updated every year which makes it even worse.

Longevity is a fair point !

 

[DeepIn2U]

- headphone jack

/MilK

Forget about Jack, he’s gone for good. He’s not coming back.

Proof:
AirPods
Beats Studio 3
Beats Solo 3
6 competition smartphones also lost jack.
Cleaner audio, better tuning, the music is digital why convert it back again? Battery life; maybe but even at 40hrs on the latter two headphones mentioned above my iPhone 7 still has battery left from full charge.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Forget about Jack, he’s gone for good. He’s not coming back.

Proof:
AirPods
Beats Studio 3
Beats Solo 3
6 competition smartphones also lost jack.
Cleaner audio, better tuning, the music is digital why convert it back again? Battery life; maybe but even at 40hrs on the latter two headphones mentioned above my iPhone 7 still has battery left from full charge.

It was a lot simpler to just plug right into the phone without having to carry something extra that needs to be charged in addition to the phone, or having a dongle that can be easily lost or not have with you when you use different earphones. My daughter refuses to buy an Apple iPhone without a headphone jack, or a large phone in general.

Most newer iPhones (except the 5 and 5s) actually had good sounding built-in DACs and headphone jacks. BT is usually not cleaner than that, unless you go with a dedicated DAC/amp that come separate from the headphones.

Also, many of us listen to CD quality lossless music with good in-ear monitors. The Bluetooth built into almost all phones and headphones isn't nearly as good as the bluetooth you might get from an aftermarket DAC/amp like the CEntrance BlueDAC with AptX, which adds a big chunk of cost and bulk to the setup (although still quite light). The V-MODA Crossfade Wireless II might be another exception, with excellent BT sound, but they're full size headphones.

I currently use the BlueDAC with my 7+ and X, to drive my Westone ES60 custom monitors or JH Audio Roxanne custom monitors, as it can either be used with a micro-USB to lightning cable for 24/96 resolution or used as a bluetooth wireless DAC/amp and still sound pretty close to CD quality.

But this is overkill for casual listening, and for casual listening you still have to use a 3rd party adapter to listen with regular headphones and charge at the same time.

 

[aakshey]

1. Nobody buys an SE in India. Indians would rather buy an iPhone 6 which still costs 60% more.

2. The last iOS to support iPhone SE Gen 1 will likely be iOS 12 or iOS 13. Most likely. The same goes for iPhone 6s and iPhone 6s Plus. And the same goes for all current iPads except the Pros I guess. And there’s a good chance that the only devices that do get iOS 14 will be those that have A10 or newer.

 

[44267547]

You could be right as I'm not certain on the SE either.

Given the price sensitivity of some consumers, I think there's a possibility Apple could keep the SE as an entry level offering. While $449 seems reasonably cheap for the rest of the world, the SE2 and SE could act as the hi-lo option for the Indian market.

The post above mine seems to believe that no one in India purchases the SE as it is, so I can't attest to that. I believe if Apple offered The SE and SE 2, I think Apple would want to consolidate that into the newest iPhone SE 2 if it was offered and not have competition being taken away from the SE2 with both versions being offered.

 

[MartyvH]

I am hoping for something VERY similar to what todays SE is like. I know, unlikely but one can have dreams.

Phones are getting bigger and bigger and "adapt to a changing marketplace" is sage business wisdom. The 6.1" model speaks volumes. But less bezel is mitigating that trend and will be the only saviour for fans of more compact phones. As for smaller, like what people have said, 7 internals in a 6/7/8 body is an iPhone 7. 8 internals in a 6/7/8 body is an iPhone 8. The 7 is likely to satisfy emerging markets like India if priced correctly. And so we come to the end of the 4-inch line. There is not a lot of room to move for Apple. MilKat10 pointed out the lack of leaks and rumours. It says something. We are 2 months from a plausible launch date. Something's amiss with the SE2.

 

[JPack]

The post above mine seems to believe that no one in India purchases the SE as it is, so I can't attest to that. I believe if Apple offered The SE and SE 2, I think Apple would want to consolidate that into the newest iPhone SE 2 if it was offered and not have competition being taken away from the SE2 with both versions being offered.

I’ve learned not to trust nor reply to that poster. His posts tend to contain flawed information and/or logic, to put it politely.

India is an extremely price sensitive market. Apple could be assembling other models there, but they chose SE for good reason.

If we look at Flipkart, one of India’s top ecommerce sites, we see that iPhone SE is the most popular iPhone when sorted by popularity.
https://www.flipkart.com/

Similarly, using Amazon India, the 32GB iPhone SE in Space Gray has a sales ranking of #159. The 32GB iPhone 6 in Space Gray is ranked #197.
[doublepost=1516181093][/doublepost]

Phones are getting bigger and bigger and "adapt to a changing marketplace" is sage business wisdom. The 6.1" model speaks volumes. But less bezel is mitigating that trend and will be the only saviour for fans of more compact phones. As for smaller, like what people have said, 7 internals in a 6/7/8 body is an iPhone 7. 8 internals in a 6/7/8 body is an iPhone 8. The 7 is likely to satisfy emerging markets like India if priced correctly. And so we come to the end of the 4-inch line. There is not a lot of room to move for Apple. MilKat10 pointed out the lack of leaks and rumours. It says something. We are 2 months from a plausible launch date. Something's amiss with the SE2.

Personally, I don’t have a whole lot of trust in the current SE2 rumors. It seems a bit early for a refresh given iPhone 6s and 7 are still on the market.

The heavyweights like KGI (Kuo), Bloomberg (Gurman), and Nikkei Asian Review haven’t said anything. And they’re almost always the first to leak.

 

[MartyvH]

I retract what I said about it being over for the SE. The way is still open for it. I look back at this article and I see that the design still has legs:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...despite-shift-towards-larger-screens.2046802/

JPack is spot on with their comments.

 

[DeepIn2U]

It was a lot simpler to just plug right into the phone without having to carry something extra that needs to be charged in addition to the phone, or having a dongle that can be easily lost or not have with you when you use different earphones. My daughter refuses to buy an Apple iPhone without a headphone jack, or a large phone in general.

Most newer iPhones (except the 5 and 5s) actually had good sounding built-in DACs and headphone jacks. BT is usually not cleaner than that, unless you go with a dedicated DAC/amp that come separate from the headphones.

Also, many of us listen to CD quality lossless music with good in-ear monitors. The Bluetooth built into almost all phones and headphones isn't nearly as good as the bluetooth you might get from an aftermarket DAC/amp like the CEntrance BlueDAC with AptX, which adds a big chunk of cost and bulk to the setup (although still quite light). The V-MODA Crossfade Wireless II might be another exception, with excellent BT sound, but they're full size headphones.

I currently use the BlueDAC with my 7+ and X, to drive my Westone ES60 custom monitors or JH Audio Roxanne custom monitors, as it can either be used with a micro-USB to lightning cable for 24/96 resolution or used as a bluetooth wireless DAC/amp and still sound pretty close to CD quality.

But this is overkill for casual listening, and for casual listening you still have to use a 3rd party adapter to listen with regular headphones and charge at the same time.

iPhone used the DAC in the BT headphones to replicate the audio, not in the phone.

Bluetooth is Bluetooth is Bluetooth - based on chipset and revision spec. AptX alone doesn’t define the audio quality. Your home amp if matched to the bluetooths headphone spec, I.e. 3.0-3.0, will be more critical.

Codecs:
SBC / AAC / LDAC /APTX support a certain range of MB/Sec for audio ... so your lossless audio for bits per minute is it higher than any of these codecs? Is it higher than what the version of Bluetooth transfer rate supports for those codecs? If the answer is yes to any of those then it’s the audio source and thus your argument makes sense to a degree. If the answer is no then you’re just being a stickler against Bluetooth just because it’s bluetooth.

Lossless audio is great and I’ve yet to hear an audiophile determine and explain that the full range of music can be felt as the full range of audio includes many frequencies the human ear cannot hear, not ever but some bass frequencies we can feel in our chest. I’ve yet to come across any headphones that make you feel bass frequencies in your chest like a 12” woofer in an air tight bin concert bin can.

You’ll have to be more specific about AptX and what it supports and a particular Bluetooth spec for both the audio source and receiver (headphones) along with the bit rate the track has.

Also maybe we can choose a list of 5 tracks to try out maybe even a specific min/sec section of where we should hear specific range of music which some audio would fail? Just please don’t select country I’d not do that to my worst enemy (unless it’s Kenny Rogers The Gambler)

 

[actcyclist]

I just bought a SE in case it's discontinued, I despise the iPhone 6SSS (aka iPhone 8). I got a good price for it, but my main consideration was I'm sick of carrying the 8.

It they bring out an SE2 that's still the same case size, I'll buy one and keep this as a spare.

My view is that not even Apple would have decided what to do with the SE. They'd have vague plans, which cause excited leaks, but they'd look at very recent data before launching a new model or updating the old one.
The SE came out when Apple sales slumped after the 6S, and for people holding onto their 5/5s because of the smaller size. Also to satisfy developing markets.
But since then a number of people have moved to bigger iPhones, and China/India seem to prefer bigger phones.

 

[JustJoshua]

Se is still outselling the newer higher models in my area according to salespeople here.
I have a basic 16gb el cheapo Se and it’s my daily abused device. I’m not a power user and it covers all the crazy stuff I do and handles it perfectly fine.
If they come out with an Se2 I would gladly take a look into it but thus far I’m still fine with this little monster.

 

[Airdupont]

Hi, this is my first post here, from Belgium.
I really hope the SE2 will be released. iPhones are getting really expensive.

 

[Critycal]

Hi, this is my first post in this thread, form The Netherlands.
I really agree with my southern neighbor.
I am waiting for a refreshed SE2 so I can swap my iPhone 7.

 

[Alch3mist]

I just bought a SE in case it's discontinued, I despise the iPhone 6SSS (aka iPhone 8). I got a good price for it, but my main consideration was I'm sick of carrying the 8.

It they bring out an SE2 that's still the same case size, I'll buy one and keep this as a spare.

My view is that not even Apple would have decided what to do with the SE. They'd have vague plans, which cause excited leaks, but they'd look at very recent data before launching a new model or updating the old one.
The SE came out when Apple sales slumped after the 6S, and for people holding onto their 5/5s because of the smaller size. Also to satisfy developing markets.
But since then a number of people have moved to bigger iPhones, and China/India seem to prefer bigger phones.

Where did you get a good deal on the SE? I am on a 6s Plus that is falling fast. I was hesitant to get the SE because SE2 may come out; but who knows. If I could find a cheap SE and still upgrade to SE2 with out a bad $ decision; I would.
[doublepost=1516284629][/doublepost]I am also skeptical about a march or April SE2 release because normally it would have leaked that "A million 4" iPhone parts are in manufacturing at <such and such>". Without any news difficult to know what the hell is going on. All I want is an SE2 and a 10.5" Pad Pro and Im good.

 

[actcyclist]

Where did you get a good deal on the SE?

I'm in Australia (GST inc), so it was Big W at $AU440 for rose gold 32GB using a discount. That's cheap for Australia, though space grey is cheaper. I sold an iPhone 8 that I got for $AU900 in October for $AU700.
interesting to see how the 8 dropped in price from $AU1079 so quickly compared to previous years.

normally it would have leaked that "A million 4" iPhone parts are in manufacturing at <such and such>".

Yes, the only way to predict is to remember what Apple did last time. Googling that, back in Dec 2015 we already had Ming-Chi Kao saying we'd have an updated iPhone 5s coming out in March 2016.
https://9to5mac.com/2015/12/03/iphone-6c-iphone-6s-a9-nfc/

So unless Apple is much better at keeping leaks down, I don't expect an iPhone SE2 in March this year. However, it wouldn't take Apple long to get an updated SE out the door if they see a drop in iPhone sales coming and want to throw something out to ensure they don't have a report, and shock, investors that iPhone sales have dropped.