iPhone Users Can Sign Up to Try Starlink Connectivity For Free Until July

[turbineseaplane]

He was there on an apology tour after retweeting anti-semetic garbage. So that's not the win you think it is.



Yep, sounds like a real friend of Israel.

Look, I have a degree in German History. I will concede Elon isn't a Nazi. But he is absolutely fascist-curious. He supports a politician who is putting minorities in camps. He's stripping away Congress' power to make the executive the end all and be all of the state. And, while all of you saying "it wasn't a Hitlergruß", neo-nazis on Twitter certainly thought it was. So you understand why those of us aren't convinced he's not a fascist?

Perhaps you could help us all understand something here

What literally is the delineation between "actually a Nazi" and all the stops on the spectrum before that?

Is there a particular action or behavior that, definitionally, takes one from "only" fascist curious and doing Nazi looking salutes and getting applauded by neo-Nazis, etc ....to a point where we can just call them "a Nazi"?

(this is a serious question as I'm hoping your expertise in this area can help us all understand better what to look for)

 

[surferfb]

Perhaps you could help us all understand something here

What literally is the delineation between "actually a Nazi" and all the stops on the spectrum before that?

Is there a particular action or behavior that, definitionally, takes one from "only" fascist curious and doing Nazi looking salutes and getting applauded by neo-Nazis, etc ....to a point where we can just call them "a Nazi"?

(this is a serious question as I'm hoping your expertise in this area can help us all understand better what to look for)

I mean, if we want to get technical, a Nazi was a member of the Nationalsozialisische Deutsche Arbeiterspartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party). People actually joined the party for numerous reasons - hating Jewish people wasn't the only reason. (Although, as an aside, you know what historians call people Germans who joined the Nazi Party for reasons other than antisemitism? Nazis. Think that might be a good thing for a lot of people to remember right now - if you sign up to support a politician/party for one thing, you need to own all of what they support.).

As it is used today Nazi/Neo-Nazi generally refers to people on the far right who in particular have a hatred of the Jewish people and/or a lot of holocaust denial (think "it didn't happen, but would have been awesome if it did" types). I don't think Elon hates Jews or is a holocaust denier, which is why I say he isn't a Nazi. I do think his feed on X exposes him to a lot of far-right and neo-nazis though, and as far as I can tell, he takes a lot of what gets shown to him on his timeline at face value and doesn't think critically or expose himself to different ideas - which means he's slowly brainwashing himself in far-right propaganda, often funded by far-right autocracies like Putin's Russia.

Long story short - given the atrocities of the Holocaust, I am very hesitant to call anyone a Nazi because it is such a loaded term. But Fascism doesn't have to be about extermination of the Jewish people; Franco's Spain wasn't particularly anti-semitic. I'd define fascism as an ideology that is centered around a particular leader that is hyper-nationalist and degenerates "the others" in society, marginalizes or criminalizes political opposition, forces businesses have to tow the party line or else be subject to penalties/being sold, and enacts control of the media and education. All of which I think applies (to varying degrees) to the current American situation.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@surferfb Excellent - thank you for taking the time to sketch that out

How would you say we should refer to Elon right now, in as short hand of a way as you can think of (something simple, short, and correct)

Is he a fascist?
Other/better ways to describe him?

 

[surferfb]

@surferfb Excellent - thank you for taking the time to sketch that out

How would you say we should refer to Elon right now, in as short hand of a way as you can think of (something simple, short, and correct)

Is he a fascist?
Other/better ways to describe him?

I like fascist-curious, because again, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I suspect that if you said "you can have a fascist dictatorship run by the people you like or a healthy democracy run by the people you don't" he'd pick democracy; it's just he'd argue what he is doing now isn't supporting fascism but right-sizing government. I suspect he truly believes he's doing the right thing and doesn't know (or maybe doesn't care) he's breaking the law/behaving unconstitutionally in the way he's going about it.

But a lot of German business leaders cozied up to the Nazis because they thought they'd be easy to control or being on the government's side would be in their interests, and it didn't turn out great for them, to say the least. Everyone from Elon to Tim Cook should remember that.

 

[fenderbass146]

[...]

He has publicly stated his support for Israel repeatedly...from a good source on Reddit, anyone who supports Israel is a Zionist...but apparently that and along with mulitple other instances showing support for Israel isn't enough for Musk...weird double standard. The inconsistency is hilarious.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Anyone that actually helped clean out those camps would have some strong words to say to someone labeling another a Nazi so casually and for something so insignificant.
I know this because my grandfather was one of those soldiers, and this very thing was a MASSIVE pet peeve of his.
And by “strong words,” I mean something I can’t describe in this forum without getting at least a warning, so in perpetuity and in his memory may I suggest not labeling something as evil until you’ve actually been surrounded by the sight and smell of true evil, not just a complete stranger you have an ideological difference with.

I disagree. The kind of political behavior exhibited by the Trump/Musk cabal are exactly mimicking what Hitler, Orbán and Maduro have done. So referencing the likes of Musk as a Nazi is not far fetched even if Trump/Musk have not built concentration camps. Yet.

 

[palebluedot]

Anyone that actually helped clean out those camps would have some strong words to say to someone labeling another a Nazi so casually and for something so insignificant.
I know this because my grandfather was one of those soldiers, and this very thing was a MASSIVE pet peeve of his.
And by “strong words,” I mean something I can’t describe in this forum without getting at least a warning, so in perpetuity and in his memory may I suggest not labeling something as evil until you’ve actually been surrounded by the sight and smell of true evil, not just a complete stranger you have an ideological difference with.

FWIW, I've never in my life called someone a Nazi and I didn't directly do that here. I think that is a bit of arm chair projection, which sort of made my point about the "virtue signaling" comment. What I did say is that I'm glad that our forefathers (of which I also had two, like you) stood upon and served to fight against global fascism and evil instead of playing semantics on the Internet. I think the poster who decried virtue signaling is the one that should be careful about labels. Fascism is always a slippery slope. In the Nazi example, it didn't start in '44 or '45, it started at the end of Weimar Germany.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Whether Elon or JD ... many folks associated with the administration remain awfully fascist-curious 🧐

 

[amartinez1660]

It's pretty amazing we have a bunch of people would would rather be stranded and possibly die in the wilderness than to join service to save their live simply because one person is involved at a distance with the company.
Amazing when you think about it.

I think it’s moot… this reminds me of a very progressive (and well intended) roommate I once had, she said that she avoids all things Amazon, to make a statement.
However she has a cellphone, uses internet, etc.
I’m 100% the she pinged those AWS servers on the daily.

Same with some people here saying that they use any sort of EV except Teslas… as in, are they positively sure that nothing seeps in? Batteries? Charging grids? Designs and/or car platforms sharing? Engineers that have worked before on one disliked company or another?

Same with this topic at hand, “I would use a slow AOL satellite and risk death than saving my life with a single Starlink connection”. Who guarantees that the AOL satellites weren’t sent on an SpaceX trip to begin with?

“Let’s better let astronauts stranded by NASA die in space than be rescued by SpaceX” types of stances are too extreme in my opinion.

 

[amartinez1660]

No. Not that at all, don't get it twisted.
If I need internet access and I have a choice of slow and maybe slightly spotty AOL, (as a crappy example), or quick and solid, (but well expensive and scummy), Starlink and it's not life and death or critical that I have to have 100% uptime then I'll make the sacrifice and go with AOL.

Not amazing whatsoever. Have just decided that I do actually have principles.

Commendable stance, but how are you guaranteeing that the AOL satellite got there by itself and not through a SpaceX lift? For saying one thing of potentially thousands.

To your main commenter’s point, that would be indeed risking life for the name of it. The difference between life and death in a difficult situation can be mere minutes if not seconds, the “spotty AOL” service could cost dearly.

But then again, now to your point, this is nothing new, people sacrifice themselves for their principles quite daily.

 

[Dutch60]

I mean, if we want to get technical, a Nazi was a member of the Nationalsozialisische Deutsche Arbeiterspartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party). People actually joined the party for numerous reasons - hating Jewish people wasn't the only reason. (Although, as an aside, you know what historians call people Germans who joined the Nazi Party for reasons other than antisemitism? Nazis. Think that might be a good thing for a lot of people to remember right now - if you sign up to support a politician/party for one thing, you need to own all of what they support.).

As it is used today Nazi/Neo-Nazi generally refers to people on the far right who in particular have a hatred of the Jewish people and/or a lot of holocaust denial (think "it didn't happen, but would have been awesome if it did" types). I don't think Elon hates Jews or is a holocaust denier, which is why I say he isn't a Nazi. I do think his feed on X exposes him to a lot of far-right and neo-nazis though, and as far as I can tell, he takes a lot of what gets shown to him on his timeline at face value and doesn't think critically or expose himself to different ideas - which means he's slowly brainwashing himself in far-right propaganda, often funded by far-right autocracies like Putin's Russia.

Long story short - given the atrocities of the Holocaust, I am very hesitant to call anyone a Nazi because it is such a loaded term. But Fascism doesn't have to be about extermination of the Jewish people; Franco's Spain wasn't particularly anti-semitic. I'd define fascism as an ideology that is centered around a particular leader that is hyper-nationalist and degenerates "the others" in society, marginalizes or criminalizes political opposition, forces businesses have to tow the party line or else be subject to penalties/being sold, and enacts control of the media and education. All of which I think applies (to varying degrees) to the current American situation.

Nazi is about (own) people and race/breed. Fascism more about own national state.
It's not difficult to see, why they mix easy.
Make America Great Again….and kick out immigrants….

 

[Dutch60]

Whether Elon or JD ... many folks associated with the administration remain awfully fascist-curious 🧐View attachment 2482259

In my opinion it has nothing to do with "fascist-curious"; they're 100% fascists….and nazi ideology isn't far away.

 

[turbineseaplane]

In my opinion it has nothing to do with "fascist-curious"; they're 100% fascists….and nazi ideology isn't far away.

Yeah, the ASMR posts of shackles and handcuffs during deportations, from the official White House X account, has crossed into newly scary territory for me

 

[I7guy]

Yeah, the ASMR posts of shackles and handcuffs during deportations, from the official White House X account, has crossed into newly scary territory for me

No matter if one wants to support Starlink or not, TMO or not, scary territory never used to be Times Square. Times Square has already been cleaned up once by Guliani (no matter what one thinks of him today).

 

[H2SO4]

Commendable stance, but how are you guaranteeing that the AOL satellite got there by itself and not through a SpaceX lift? For saying one thing of potentially thousands.

To your main commenter’s point, that would be indeed risking life for the name of it. The difference between life and death in a difficult situation can be mere minutes if not seconds, the “spotty AOL” service could cost dearly.

But then again, now to your point, this is nothing new, people sacrifice themselves for their principles quite daily.

I'm being realistic, not facetious.

 

[Dutch60]

@alexandr

"Nationalism is the same thing as being proud to have been born on a Tuesday." — Galina Starovoitova

I like this!

 

[Dutch60]

Honest question, how is this thread in political news? This has NOTHING to do with politics with the exception of allowing a minority of people to vent about Elon.

Honest answer: If you believe that Elon hasn't got anything to do with politics, then you're 100% right.

 

[Dutch60]

He also was with a bunch of Jews at Auschwitz’s last year denouncing the evils the Nazis and saying it can never again and supports the state of Israel….

So he’s a Zionist and a Nazi…got it (Eyeroll)

Allowing free speech on his platform even negative speech and shrinking the size of government is literally the opposite of a fascist…

I read this article from January 24 2025. Don't know if sharing it is allowed here.

"Musk, who has emerged as one of Donald Trump’s top allies, has faced renewed allegations of antisemitism since he made an evocative gesture while speaking after the new president’s inauguration. Some said the gesture bore an uncanny resemblance to a Nazi salute.

The X owner’s visit to Auschwitz in January 2024 has been used as a point in his defense, and Musk has dismissed the Nazi comparison as “pure propaganda” (yet decided to take the opportunity to joke about Nazis on X).

On Wednesday, though, the partner of Gidon Lev, the 89-year-old Holocaust survivor who was the guest of honor at Musk’s much-publicized visit to the death camp, shared a scathing perspective on the event.

Elon Musk visits Auschwitz-Birkenau with European Jewish Association (EJA) Chairman Rabbi Menachem Margolin, Ben Shapiro, and Holocaust survivor Gidon Lev in Oswiecim, Poland. / Yoav Dudkevitch/European Jewish Association via Reuters
Less
“I chatted with Elon Musk. I spent hours with him and walked with him through Auschwitz. I stood with him, looking at the nauseating heaps of hair, luggage, and shoes flooded with violet light meant to preserve it,” Julie Gray wrote on Facebook.

“Is Musk an antisemite?” she continued. “People, actually, it’s worse—he doesn’t care whatsoever… He was unmoved by the experience.”

Her criticism was unsparing.

“Elon did not care. He was about his press junket and his bodyguards. I was ten feet from him as he posed for the cameras of his entourage,” she wrote. “He was utterly detached. He cared about how he looked. When he placed a wreath at Auschwitz and Gidon was overlooked, he walked away with the cameras whirring. This is Elon Musk. A sociopath, if ever there was one. To deduce, from this visit, that he is a friend of the Jews is desperately naive.”

Seth Abramson, an award-winning writer who identifies himself as a biographer of Musk, took to X to share Gray’s story and agree with her assessment.

“This is absolutely chilling,” he wrote on Thursday. “He truly is a sociopath.”

 

[Razorpit]

Honest answer: If you believe that Elon hasn't got anything to do with politics, then you're 100% right.

Honest answer: This isn't about Elon. "iPhone Users Can Sign Up to Try Starlink Connectivity For Free Until July."

 

[Dutch60]

Honest answer: This isn't about Elon. "iPhone Users Can Sign Up to Try Starlink Connectivity For Free Until July."

I agree!
Still this thread is in the Political News forum…so…nothing wrong with discussing politics of this item, I guess.
Do share your opinion though…maybe it doesn’t belong here.

 

[fenderbass146]

I read this article from January 24 2025. Don't know if sharing it is allowed here.

"Musk, who has emerged as one of Donald Trump’s top allies, has faced renewed allegations of antisemitism since he made an evocative gesture while speaking after the new president’s inauguration. Some said the gesture bore an uncanny resemblance to a Nazi salute.

The X owner’s visit to Auschwitz in January 2024 has been used as a point in his defense, and Musk has dismissed the Nazi comparison as “pure propaganda” (yet decided to take the opportunity to joke about Nazis on X).

On Wednesday, though, the partner of Gidon Lev, the 89-year-old Holocaust survivor who was the guest of honor at Musk’s much-publicized visit to the death camp, shared a scathing perspective on the event.

Elon Musk visits Auschwitz-Birkenau with European Jewish Association (EJA) Chairman Rabbi Menachem Margolin, Ben Shapiro, and Holocaust survivor Gidon Lev in Oswiecim, Poland. / Yoav Dudkevitch/European Jewish Association via Reuters
Less
“I chatted with Elon Musk. I spent hours with him and walked with him through Auschwitz. I stood with him, looking at the nauseating heaps of hair, luggage, and shoes flooded with violet light meant to preserve it,” Julie Gray wrote on Facebook.

“Is Musk an antisemite?” she continued. “People, actually, it’s worse—he doesn’t care whatsoever… He was unmoved by the experience.”

Her criticism was unsparing.

“Elon did not care. He was about his press junket and his bodyguards. I was ten feet from him as he posed for the cameras of his entourage,” she wrote. “He was utterly detached. He cared about how he looked. When he placed a wreath at Auschwitz and Gidon was overlooked, he walked away with the cameras whirring. This is Elon Musk. A sociopath, if ever there was one. To deduce, from this visit, that he is a friend of the Jews is desperately naive.”

Seth Abramson, an award-winning writer who identifies himself as a biographer of Musk, took to X to share Gray’s story and agree with her assessment.

“This is absolutely chilling,” he wrote on Thursday. “He truly is a sociopath.”

ohhh cool anecdotal story when there are others who said otherwise. It's also pretty well known he's an incredibly awkward dude with autism...according to this person he's WORSE than an anti-semite because he didn't respond the way I'd have expected him too. eyeroll.

Nazi aren't nazi because they make a hand motion, they are NAzi because of their actions and as much as you want to wish cast it, Musk may be a moron, he hasn't a Nazi.

 

[Dutch60]

ohhh cool anecdotal story when there are others who said otherwise.

Thnxs for pointing this out; I didn’t/don’t know about others saying otherwise, but I believe you.

It's also pretty well known he's an incredibly awkward dude with autism...according to this person he's WORSE than an anti-semite because he didn't respond the way I'd have expected him too. eyeroll.

If he is an autist then that would explain a lot.

Nazi aren't nazi because they make a hand motion, they are NAzi because of their actions

If spreading nazi ideology can be seen as “action”, I agree.

and as much as you want to wish cast it, Musk may be a moron, he hasn't a Nazi.

I think you mean “isn’t” (?).
If he’s an autist, then I’m hesitant to judge him as moron (although he does act like a moron).
Letting him do the things he does (even ordering him), is more the act of a moron. A very dangerous one.

 

[fenderbass146]

Thnxs for pointing this out; I didn’t/don’t know about others saying otherwise, but I believe you.

If he is an autist then that would explain a lot.

If spreading nazi ideology can be seen as “action”, I agree.

I think you mean “isn’t” (?).
If he’s an autist, then I’m hesitant to judge him as moron (although he does act like a moron).
Letting him do the things he does (even ordering him), is more the act of a moron. A very dangerous one.

I appreciate the civil response, Ben Shapiro and multiple Jewish Rabbi's were with and did not say anything similar to this person.

I'd need to know what ideology you think he's is spreading that makes him a Nazi...being pro border and anti-immigration for example does not make you a Nazi.

Regarding your last point, correct, I meant isn't. Yes he is autistic, no it doesn't make him a moron, but he does do some incredibly stupid things really needs a filter. I think he's been given far too much sway in politics, but none of this makes him a Nazi. We are deluding what this title actually means. I have plenty of problems with Musk, but the hate and vitriol is driven by political fighting not reality.

 

[Dutch60]

I appreciate the civil response, Ben Shapiro and multiple Jewish Rabbi's were with and did not say anything similar to this person.

Like I said, I did not know this. I am however interested in those opinions as well. Could that also be political motivated?

I'd need to know what ideology you think he's is spreading that makes him a Nazi...being pro border and anti-immigration for example does not make you a Nazi.

That’s correct. It’s more about the sum of many outspoken viewpoints and actions from this Trump government, that should lead to concerns. That’s the driving force. And Musk? Well he plays his part under the direction of Trump. I have a feeling that Musk is judged and condemned by a growing number of people, whereas the real problem lies in those who let him do all this and even order him to do like this. Nice and comfortable shield for Trump also. If Musk fails, Trump can easily blame him. Trump is about America (well not actually, but he says so, over and over again). Musk’s business is “globalistic”. So eventually the 2 will collide.

It’s a combination of nationalism, glorifying own country, kicking out illegals as done the way it’s done, spreading lies, aggression towards groups and other countries, scapegoating, self-glorification, taking control of institutions and the legal system, teaming up with dictators, bullying any opposition…etc.etc…..that should be a very clear warning to everyone. Red flags all over the place.
If he’s still alive in 4 years, I’m 100% sure that he’ll be the first American president that will get a third term!

No, that all is not nazism…yet. “Fascism” would probably be a better definition, because that’s more about own country instead of own race/own people. However, if we can learn from the past then we can see that these 2 get along very well.
I think the USA shoots itself in the foot…it will be no world leading country anymore very fast and China is happy to take this role. As Russia, they’re silently probably doubled over with laughter. All their wishes come true because of an orange joker (in their eyes) on the other side of the pond (Trump is considered a useful clown).
I hate to say this because I thought very highly about the USA, but at the moment it’s a complete mess. Exactly like Russia, China and some others like it.
But all this is way too far of topic (sorry for that), and worth another thread.

Regarding your last point, correct, I meant isn't. Yes he is autistic, no it doesn't make him a moron, but he does do some incredibly stupid things really needs a filter. I think he's been given far too much sway in politics, but none of this makes him a Nazi. We are deluding what this title actually means. I have plenty of problems with Musk, but the hate and vitriol is driven by political fighting not reality.

I also appreciate your civil response.

 

[fenderbass146]

Like I said, I did not know this. I am however interested in those opinions as well. Could that also be political motivated?

That’s correct. It’s more about the sum of many outspoken viewpoints and actions from this Trump government, that should lead to concerns. That’s the driving force. And Musk? Well he plays his part under the direction of Trump. I have a feeling that Musk is judged and condemned by a growing number of people, whereas the real problem lies in those who let him do all this and even order him to do like this. Nice and comfortable shield for Trump also. If Musk fails, Trump can easily blame him. Trump is about America (well not actually, but he says so, over and over again). Musk’s business is “globalistic”. So eventually the 2 will collide.

It’s a combination of nationalism, glorifying own country, kicking out illegals as done the way it’s done, spreading lies, aggression towards groups and other countries, scapegoating, self-glorification, taking control of institutions and the legal system, teaming up with dictators, bullying any opposition…etc.etc…..that should be a very clear warning to everyone. Red flags all over the place.
If he’s still alive in 4 years, I’m 100% sure that he’ll be the first American president that will get a third term!

No, that all is not nazism…yet. “Fascism” would probably be a better definition, because that’s more about own country instead of own race/own people. However, if we can learn from the past then we can see that these 2 get along very well.
I think the USA shoots itself in the foot…it will be no world leading country anymore very fast and China is happy to take this role. As Russia, they’re silently probably doubled over with laughter. All their wishes come true because of an orange joker (in their eyes) on the other side of the pond (Trump is considered a useful clown).
I hate to say this because I thought very highly about the USA, but at the moment it’s a complete mess. Exactly like Russia, China and some others like it.
But all this is way too far of topic (sorry for that), and worth another thread.

I also appreciate your civil response.

Geninengly curious, you say if you are alive in 4 years, do you have some ailment or are you that concerned about the US/World future that your life will literally be at risk?

If it's the later, I'm truly sorry, that sounds awful to believe that and have that outlook. I wish you the best. I have problems with Trump, did not vote for him or musk but I really don't see our democracy imploding because of him. Hope I'm wrong.