No, you've made it pretty clear you're not at ALL the kind of customer Apple wants or needs and they'll be quite happy to "loose" you. You don't like their products or business model. Making niche products for people with no interest in new things is a recipe for bankruptcy.
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Is Apple concerned/aware about all the negative comments about the new MP?
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No, you've made it pretty clear you're not at ALL the kind of customer Apple wants or needs and they'll be quite happy to "loose" you. You don't like their products or business model. Making niche products for people with no interest in new things is a recipe for bankruptcy.
I love new things as long as I can talk to a $15,000 plotter, an $8,000 plotter and my old skool Oki, and Pro9000.
Progress is a wonderful thing but forgetting the past is generally bad. If Apple had made a retina with an optical and FW ports and express card I'd buy i.e. drop a 4k screen on an existing 17" main body and I'd be all over it.
On the MP side add all the TB ports you want but let me have my slots and internal storage.
=================
The thing that gets forgotten in all this love/hate is the new MP doesn't bring any new capability other than TB, which no one was really clamoring for in the 1st place. If they'ed added the second graphics card and TB and left the thing alone people would be prostrate in front of Cupertino but that is not the case. The new MP like the rMBP brings nothing nothing truly valuable to the table.
Apple also have something else, a low stock price, a CEO who's compensation is tied to performance, and being a corporation a desire to make as much money as possible.
It's a bit naive to think that the planned obsolescence of the new Mac Pro is due to some genuine interest in making the product better for everyone and not simply for themselves.
Reducing the flexibility and lifespan of the Mac Pro is an opportunity for Apple to squeeze more money out of the pro market. Putting it on the same iMac treadmill.
Given that Mac Pro users already pay a premium for such a product precisely for flexibility, power, and a long lifespan it's not hard to see why such a change is antagonizing the current Mac Pro owners and why their outrage is justified.
People,
I'll give you my two -cents, although I don't expect anyone to be interested.
I'm currently the happy and proud owner of a thirdhand MP3,1. I totally love the design and resilience of the beast, and being an old tinkerer, I also appreciate that I can open the box and play around inside it. That said, I've also tinkered inside basically every Apple computer I've ever had, whether it was a desktop or laptop.
My current usage of my MP is not what Apple originally envisioned when they launched it. I don't do video, 3D or high-end audio. It's my workstation period. It's my all-round do everything and anything machine, which I prefer over using my laptop any day of the week. It's my reserve panzer division.
I honestly do not know, whether I'd be in line for a nMP, even if I had too much money lying around, and I will not know until they start showing up in apple stores, because I'm very noise-sensitive (and my wife is even worse). That said, me not being someone who uses his MP to make money, I'll probably upgrade to a 4,1 or 5,1 some day, and go for the nMP in 2016 at the earliest.
- - -
The whole desktop-box paradigm is from back when the only way to have a peripheral or add-on utilize any significant bandwidth was to plug it directly onto a mobo. This time is now past. In fact, it's been for some time.
The only type of stuff we used to plug into our desktops, which really needs any speed in excess of what a TB2 channel will supply (CPU, RAM, GPU) is solidly inside the nMP canister. Thus, the remaining real questions are:
- what GPU options will Apple offer
- is the chassis solid (thermal and noise profile)
- is the hardware reliable
- will 3rd party vendors respond with a wide selection of external enclosures (for hard drives, optical drives, PCI-cards etc.)
Considering, that MP GPU options have traditionally not been weighed in favor of the FirePro/Quadro -ranges, I'll expect the basic setups of the nMP will strongly feature more normal workstation chips. All those who have extrapolated the price range of the nMP based on what two off-the-shelf FirePro cards cost should take business 101 (or something similar). That said, the nMP will not be cheap - the bang/buck ratio of a quad core mini will remain attractive for those who can make do with one of them. In fact it's conceivable that all the new external enclosures will benefit the top-end mini's standing among professionals.
I admit, that Apple has bet a lot on the third party HW providers' willingness to risk bringing out TB-enclosures early enough to help early nMP adopters bridge the gap, but I honestly think the gamble will pay off.
- - -
I wholeheartedly agree with whoever in this thread who noted, that there's a disconnect between all those who praise apple for innovativeness and those who decry any break with the past as sacrilege. I wonder what response the Macintosh would have gotten if MR had existed in 1984.
RGDS,
I'll give you my two -cents, although I don't expect anyone to be interested.
I'm currently the happy and proud owner of a thirdhand MP3,1. I totally love the design and resilience of the beast, and being an old tinkerer, I also appreciate that I can open the box and play around inside it. That said, I've also tinkered inside basically every Apple computer I've ever had, whether it was a desktop or laptop.
My current usage of my MP is not what Apple originally envisioned when they launched it. I don't do video, 3D or high-end audio. It's my workstation period. It's my all-round do everything and anything machine, which I prefer over using my laptop any day of the week. It's my reserve panzer division.
I honestly do not know, whether I'd be in line for a nMP, even if I had too much money lying around, and I will not know until they start showing up in apple stores, because I'm very noise-sensitive (and my wife is even worse). That said, me not being someone who uses his MP to make money, I'll probably upgrade to a 4,1 or 5,1 some day, and go for the nMP in 2016 at the earliest.
- - -
The whole desktop-box paradigm is from back when the only way to have a peripheral or add-on utilize any significant bandwidth was to plug it directly onto a mobo. This time is now past. In fact, it's been for some time.
The only type of stuff we used to plug into our desktops, which really needs any speed in excess of what a TB2 channel will supply (CPU, RAM, GPU) is solidly inside the nMP canister. Thus, the remaining real questions are:
- what GPU options will Apple offer
- is the chassis solid (thermal and noise profile)
- is the hardware reliable
- will 3rd party vendors respond with a wide selection of external enclosures (for hard drives, optical drives, PCI-cards etc.)
Considering, that MP GPU options have traditionally not been weighed in favor of the FirePro/Quadro -ranges, I'll expect the basic setups of the nMP will strongly feature more normal workstation chips. All those who have extrapolated the price range of the nMP based on what two off-the-shelf FirePro cards cost should take business 101 (or something similar). That said, the nMP will not be cheap - the bang/buck ratio of a quad core mini will remain attractive for those who can make do with one of them. In fact it's conceivable that all the new external enclosures will benefit the top-end mini's standing among professionals.
I admit, that Apple has bet a lot on the third party HW providers' willingness to risk bringing out TB-enclosures early enough to help early nMP adopters bridge the gap, but I honestly think the gamble will pay off.
- - -
I wholeheartedly agree with whoever in this thread who noted, that there's a disconnect between all those who praise apple for innovativeness and those who decry any break with the past as sacrilege. I wonder what response the Macintosh would have gotten if MR had existed in 1984.
RGDS,
+1
Hit the nail on the head.
Attention , pro customers. We have seen how to bring you into our "after 3 years, it's worthless" upgrade cycle. Behold !!!
So you are of the belief that an Apple custom designed Wx000 GPU using all of the same parts (or else it couldn't be called a Wx000) as the commercial card and it will be cheaper?
I will just say that my opinion differs than yours.
GL
You can clearly see on the card that it's not an off the shelf version of any graphics card, it's a completely different form factor.
I think he's referring to PCB not the actual processor. Either way you just asked for a very lengthy post
I think he's referring to PCB not the actual processor. Either way you just asked for a very lengthy post
Yes I did. But the PCB is one of the least expensive portions of the card. The GPU chip and the RAM will still be the same as the commercial card and those are the pricey parts of the overall GPU card.
I merely stated that Apple has to recoup the engineering/R&D costs associated with developing their own PCB. The only potential savings that I can see is the commercial card's cooling system (fans, air routing plates, etc). It is for this reason that I do not believe that the GPUs found in the new MacPro will not offer a significant cost savings (if any at all) over the commercial FirePro cards.
GL
Apple has no cost with the new PCB just a new proprietary connector
And you conveniently missed that we don't want Apples PCB..
I don't want Apple's proprietary PCB/connector/slot either. I can't imagine anyone that does. The only way that I would tolerate it is if the price is right. And if you have read any of my posts in the Mac Pro threads, you will see that I believe that the Mac Pro is going to be way overpriced. So I may just upgrade to the latest generation HP (but I will wait to see what the new MP price will be before I get my next system).
GL
Based on the video PCB and the likely BGA Xeon my Apple desktop stuff is for sale. I honestly hope folks are OK with this. I lived through the 68 to Power, and Power to Intel. Power was great! we smoked Intel and had 70% of what they had. Now that is not the case.
I'm not a computer specialist and probably don't even know half of what you guys know when it comes to the technical part but couldn't another argument be that for one - the current MP also has its limitations when it comes to upgrading, its not as if you can keep upgrading it for years to come, either way a case holding all of your hardware is going to have its limitations also when it comes to space, different connections for future hardware...etc
When keeping all that in mind isn't the nMP just as upgradable as the current MP, after all you can keep expanding it with external hardware over the years which could give it a life cycle of more than 3 years and therefore comparable with the current one. All systems have their limitations i guess. Sure the current MP is upgradable but lets be honest, its not as if there are tons of CPU or video card options out there in comp. with the PC market.
My way of thinking could be totally off here and since i don't know allot about the technicals and insides of a computer i usually base my purchase on the reactions and opinions of people that do know.
Yep. They knew this would happen before it was even announced.
And to your second point, they already knew this was going to happen, so nothing will be changing.
There aren't any surprises here for Apple.
No, they are famous for innovation. You famous for wanting them to integrate waning or obsolete technology. Are you sure that you are on the right forum?
What are you a vendor of? You seem to be stuck 10+ years ago.
I sell cutting edge Apple Desktop Bus peripherals.
We also carry some stunning PCIX cards and AGP Pro cards, more of Apple's "innovations" that inspired the market to catch up to them.
It's the same Apple they always have been. This isn't even the first time they've introduced dual CPU configurations and then dumped them.
Here's what I don't get. For the past few years, pro users have been threatening to dump Apple. Complaining about GPUs. Complaining about software. Complaining about hardware updates. Some people in this forum already bought PCs.
Now that Apple is giving those users a free pass, telling them to go ahead and buy PC workstations, getting out of the very high end workstation market. And now all those users do is complain about that.
Apple usually does not compete in the high end workstation space. They've spent years in the mid end work station space and that looks like what they're going back to. Apple's not doing anything by accident here. They are very intentionally moving back to the mid end workstation space, and if that's not where you want to be, I don't think it's going to be a shock to Apple if you go out and buy a PC.
(I also feel like Apple is probably betting on the definition of high end workstations to change. The more things move to OpenCL, the more high end workstations will be defined by GPU count, not CPU count. Apple could be making an early shift to where they see the high end workstation market moving.)
I agree 100% that their actions say this.
It is their words that say otherwise.
If they have the courage of their convictions, why not speak the truth instead of pretending that they have re-invented computers. (again)
To your earnest question sorry but no. Just going to quote myself:
Pro users pay a premium for power especially on a mac and they expect to get lasting value & flexibility out of that purchase. Bricking the graphics, dropping down the number of cpus and making all expandability a more costly and speed choking external only option are all things that reduce the life & flexibility of the product and therefore its value.
To this guy:
I'm not sure what you find innovative about a disposable product with a shorter lifespan and less value than it's previous model. By this standard backwards compatibility would be a dinosaur not worth pursuing/having either and yet you would be in the position of calling that innovation.
As I said before the change is less about innovation and more about monetization through making a once great product more disposable.
On these forums...
My impression is that most of the people posting comments are Apple haters. Seems weird but I think it's true.
I can't wait to get a new Mac Pro! Been waiting three years.
My impression is that most of the people posting comments are Apple haters. Seems weird but I think it's true.
I can't wait to get a new Mac Pro! Been waiting three years.
It certainly is a shift. I think one of the things not talked about at the moment is how much Apple tried to open up the Mac Pro & build value into it, until 2010.
When you look at the move to intel processors, standard video cards, rosetta, building pro applications for it etc. It's unfortunate they are reversing this legacy instead of expanding it.
No, I don't think so, but some people (including myself) are very disappointed.
I am still simmering about the June 2012 fiasco.
And therein lies the problem, 3 years for a computer that just isn't going to work for me.
Oh well, I've got a new computer so I'm happy.