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Is Apple concerned/aware about all the negative comments about the new MP?
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Negative comments from the same 10 people about a computer that isn't even out yet?
I don't think Apple cares. The Mac Pro will live or die by the price. The specs and build are fine, assuming they can keep the cost down.
I don't think Apple cares. The Mac Pro will live or die by the price. The specs and build are fine, assuming they can keep the cost down.
Positive comments from the same 9 people about a computer that isn't even out yet?
One of them in another thread just claimed that 4 RAM slots is actually more than 8. It's the New Mac Pro Math. 4 >8
I have neutral comments because the system isn't out yet. Although the future I see I personally have no problem with.
So instead of 256GB or ram, you can only hold 128? If you realistically need that much, I suppose that's a bummer, but I suspect it won't a huge issue.
I do not own a Mac Pro. But the reasoning behind the new one is quite simple to em.
This is a new direction for the Mac Pro. Maybe the old one didn't make enough money. Maybe Apple thinks leveraging the GPU will be the future. Maybe they want the pro-sumer marker (unlikely as I think they have it covered....) Maybe its in memory of the G4 Cube
But the new direction is: small unit, external storage, dual GPU, single processor, no PCI, more proprietatry. Maybe they will have a dual processor in a year (I imagine so). Maybe they will have different graphics cards coming out (I think so too).
I know there are lots of pros out there who need PCI slots etc. But it might be that those pros just don't use the Mac Pro enough and keeping them is not worth the advantages of the smaller form factor.
Advantages of the smaller form factor (IMO): dual GPU standard, likely for a reason....; Super fast SSD; External drive based.
So I think it is aimed at video, photo, and people who work with large amounts of files collaboratively. The extra GPU makes me think that its aimed at GPU computing. I don't think its meant to be the "all in one box" anymore. Its meant to be the "versatile brain" and you just attach the media.
This could have been done with the old form factor, but I think Apple wanted a redesign for what they see as their new focus. They obviously think its better to have a ton of TB ports than a couple PCI slots. Time will tell I guess. But I have a feeling there are more pros out there looking to upgrade their imacs and use their monitor of choice than there are people who absolutely cannot work without a PCI-E slot and want a big computer that needs to be opened to be upgraded (even if it is beautiful inside)
They should have kept the old MacPro as a classic though. Its great design.
This is a new direction for the Mac Pro. Maybe the old one didn't make enough money. Maybe Apple thinks leveraging the GPU will be the future. Maybe they want the pro-sumer marker (unlikely as I think they have it covered....) Maybe its in memory of the G4 Cube
But the new direction is: small unit, external storage, dual GPU, single processor, no PCI, more proprietatry. Maybe they will have a dual processor in a year (I imagine so). Maybe they will have different graphics cards coming out (I think so too).
I know there are lots of pros out there who need PCI slots etc. But it might be that those pros just don't use the Mac Pro enough and keeping them is not worth the advantages of the smaller form factor.
Advantages of the smaller form factor (IMO): dual GPU standard, likely for a reason....; Super fast SSD; External drive based.
So I think it is aimed at video, photo, and people who work with large amounts of files collaboratively. The extra GPU makes me think that its aimed at GPU computing. I don't think its meant to be the "all in one box" anymore. Its meant to be the "versatile brain" and you just attach the media.
This could have been done with the old form factor, but I think Apple wanted a redesign for what they see as their new focus. They obviously think its better to have a ton of TB ports than a couple PCI slots. Time will tell I guess. But I have a feeling there are more pros out there looking to upgrade their imacs and use their monitor of choice than there are people who absolutely cannot work without a PCI-E slot and want a big computer that needs to be opened to be upgraded (even if it is beautiful inside)
They should have kept the old MacPro as a classic though. Its great design.
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Performance compensation is not the core of the problem. It is the "fox guarding the hen house" aspect that is the problem. To a large extent CEOs set each others compensation.
If adjusting future income you use a future instrument to do it with. There can be inflation adjustments made to the base pay but that is typically not the bulk of the overall compensation package when viewed over a multi-year term.
Adjusting CEO pay is a yearly thing just like most mainstream corporate employees.
Why do you have to see the precise price? You don't. A price higher than the current one is all that is needed to result in additional income. It doesn't have to be $4 options for a future $40 strike price. $4.75 is still a higher value to $4. That compensation is not to manage to a specific stock price. Just to one that is higher than the current one and stable over the long term.
You don't use this. The next set of future based instruments are based on then current prices.
The non trivial aspects are for more in the fact that "more money" after certain limits has increasing little impact to improving performance. Couple that to the "fox guarding the hen house" and those are primary root cause problem with CEO compensation these days. Constructing future based instruments that generate income when good strategy is invoked is relatively trivial.
For example if you give someone a liftetime worth of wages in 1-2 years they tend not to care about the company's future because their own future is quite solid. If the company craps out, "who cares I'm rich and have enough money to cover needs for the rest of my life..." it isn't my problem. The CEO is facing relatively zero risk no matter what they do as long as it is legal. That causes far more problems than any imprecision in future option pricing.
Smaller computers over time is not new. It is an over 50 year old trend.
You can peephole into much smaller subsets of that timespan but the overall trend is quite clear and not new at all.
external bulk storage. There is still storage. It is just not fixated on bulk.
PCIe is being leverage in several places inside (and outside) the system. Specific PCI-e standard sockets? Sure. But those are small subcomponent of PCI-e implementation.
More integrated. Again, a half century long not-new-at-all trend.
Before: Mac Pros only available from Apple.
After: Mac Pros only available from Apple.
It is exactly where it was on the proprietary dimension.
Not particularly necessary if Intel sticks to the "core count war" with the Xeon E5s for a couple more generations.
12, 14-16 , 16-18 progression.
Nor particularly necesary if Intel insert "embarrassingly parallel" forces into the E5 series so the count goes like
12 , 24 , 32 , 40 progression.
Form over function. There are lots of pros with iMacs , MBP , etc that need the function of what has typically been put on many PCI-e cards. If the Mac Pro is aligned with them that creates a bigger market than just the Mac Pro all by itself.
Pragmatically it can't be all that great since it is banned from sale right now in the EU.
You can't put the old Mac Pro into a design cryogenic chamber like the iPod classic and just keep selling it. For the markets it is aimed at and for those price points that isn't going to work. Once it becomes an effort of adding yet another somewhat overlapping design team... the future is basically sealed as not going to pass muster at Apple.
Every time apple releases a new device people on here hate it
Look back at the first iphone thread & ipad thread announcements nothing but dislike
I bet this will be the best selling Mac Pro ever just because people on here hate it
Look back at the first iphone thread & ipad thread announcements nothing but dislike
I bet this will be the best selling Mac Pro ever just because people on here hate it
you bet with nothing. who cares about your bet? This device is gonna be a crapper, guilty until proven innocent.
Which only goes to show haters gotta hate. Their have been more iPads sold in the last 6 months than Mac Pros sold over last 6 years. That some people have not bought them says diddy squat about whether it is a best selling product.
If it is a completely uninteresting product why comment on it and make it your avatar? If don't like or want an iPad don't pay attention to it. Same with new Mac Pro design.
No iToys for me either. Guess I took a wrong turn back there somewhere.
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I pay no attention to iPads and iOS. I also haven't commented much anymore in the MP love/hate threads.
Like Topper I've made my decision on where to go from here which is why I've bowed out.
As you should realize I change avatars frequently and that is the second of those. There will be a third but that'll probably be the last.
I took issue with Che's comment because it assumes that we all own them. Apple sells bazillions of i stuff but that doesn't make them more appealing to me.
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Then i'm probably reading it all wrong...
The absolute majority of articles and reactions of people concerning the new MP are negative, not only on this forum but in articles and other forums also.
People are always resistant to change. Few months after release many of those same people will be buying them and raving about how great they are.
The new MP likely will hugely outsell the old one, especially if there is an affordable entry level version. We will see these and thin new 4000k/Retina displays on many an upscale desktop.
His statement assumes not one lick of that at all. His statement is about folks who can't see the value of something declaring that it is going to be a failure because that look at things solely from their own myopic viewpoint and utterly fail at doing a broad spectrum generalization and/or using any grounded, well sampled data.
Instead it is sweeping generalizations which is a relatively normal, but typically very often hugely flawed, cognitive trap.
"The iPhone doesn't have a SD card slot. FAIL!! Any high end smartphone has to have an SD card slot to succeed". Several 10's of millions phones sold later and those kinds of comments look dumb. And it is not particularly surprising that that they are deeply flawed.
Reasonably priced for value and a few small "holes in the line up" filled with peripherals (again priced reasonable for value) and this new Mac Pro should do at least as well as it did back over the previous introduction of bad new Mac Pro in the transition from Power Mac.
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Probably not many ( if that means anything close to majority). A large fraction of these folks probably had substantive complaints about the previous Mac Pro. ( e.g. ,the folks loudly complaining about price are typically not particularly likely big fans of the current Mac Pro pricing either. )
Some will change their tune. Especially, if the price stays relatively constant since some complaints are about how dual workstation GPUs is going to radically drive the price higher.
For others though, this design shift is taken as further validation of their previously preconceived notions and therefore think they are even more "right" than Apple.
Apple is leaving a subset of users behind with the shift. Are large fraction of the bluster is about how their subset is more important/entitled/etc than any other subset. Many of those folks probably won't come to the new Mac Pro.
The price sensitive folks aren't going to buy them from Apple. They may buy them in 2015-17 when they show up on the used market and the < 2013 Mac Pros start to be desupported on a wider spectrum of apps and OS.
The xMac ( " want an iMac class but not the screen" ) crowd isn't going to be happy with the price.
Measuring the complaints doesn't do much because it is not a measurement of the market. It is about as skewed overall market sampling as you can do without proactively trying to do worse.
I spend too much time lurking around in this forum. That time can be better spent working on my PC.
I am really looking forward to the day the nMP is launched. The comments should be very entertaining.
Ive never said in all the hate threads that its going to fail..
Having said that i Stuff is not computers computers tend to cost more. i Stuff tends to get bought on contracts so people tend not to realize the cost. Apple is in a sense separating the wheat from the chaff when you buy this you make a commitment to the platform, just like with Power. The difference is Power CPU's were better now we have Intel. The bait for the commitment isnt there anymore.
I dont feel the need to commit anymore so Im chaff. In a couple years when its time to replace my MBP if there is none with an optical drive or card slot then Ill move on there too its really not that important.
Its not just Apple either I wont buy into creative cloud, office 365, and the like. In ten years Ill likely be like Stallman and Im good with that.
I spend too much time lurking around in this forum. That time can be better spent working on my PC.
I am really looking forward to the day the nMP is launched. The comments should be very entertaining.
Yup, entertaining is the right word for it too.
A few people mentioned Apple stock so I decided to look. In the past every time Apple announced (an actually) new MacPro their stock shot up noticeably. This time it's taken a dive. I wonder if that has anything to do with the MacPro and Cloud-centric designs? I think it does myself. Everything could change based on the entry price. I guess most people are assuming >$4K or over $3.5K for sure? Anyway, here's the market reaction:
Smoothed Trend Graph for 2013
Smoothed Trend Graph for June of 2013
Detail Graph For June of 2013
It doesn't look very good to me. A $50 fall... Ouch!
Maybe you should start? LOL
.
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Which still doesn't address that is not what he said.
False. Most iXXX products are not contract driven. iPods? Not. iMac? Not. iPad? Not ( in fact by default you get a "no contract" 3G service arrangement... if even have a 3G radio in it at all. ) If want to throw in the AppleTV even though doesn't technically have an "i" in the name... again not. [ back when iBook was still around? Not. ]
Yet again another example of a sweeping generalization about the iPhone into the whole iStuff economy. Not even remotely true.
Besides Apple Financing for just about anything on the Apple Store has always been there for any Mac product.
Another one of the narcissistic driven arguments completely detached from what the relative size of the different markets Apple's solutions are being targeted at.
format over function probably will get disconnected from future Apple designs.
Rigidly committed to dogma as opposed to pragmatic, solution focused? Probably.
GNU Hurd is largely are historical footnote and Linux took over as being the dominate open system Linux. Can also see Apple tossing GPL3 stuff when they can.
That and Apple (and most users ) going in different directions.
There is little to no reason why folks can't use multiple boxes to solve problems with storage. The classic iPod model was built that way. External doesn't necessary mean 1,000 miles away. But 1 inch away isn't necessarily always better either. Right tool for right problem.
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